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Toggle for the new Implement: ''Algorithm for slider curve'' [invalid]

posted
Total Posts
103
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +130
DaxMasterix
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
1,562 posts
Joined February 2010
Topic Starter
DaxMasterix
Let me see.. I know I can create 4 ControlPoints to skip this New Implement.. But that is not Enought.. Almost for me and other some mappers.. This ''Implement'' Don't work/good Very good.. Because not all the mappers like make ''Curve Sliders'' in 3 ControlPoints of the Sliders...
Like symmetrical Sliders.. We can't make It with 3 Points without make a ''Notable'' Curve. And that is maddening... Imo.
Maybe here is a notable Example.
--------------------

The First image Show the Older Type.
The Second the new Implement.

haha5957 wrote:

just one moar example

-> This pattern becomes :


-> this pattern.

Maybe this Request is something stupid... But I we miss the 'artisan'work. Sorry for my bad English.
And if this Already have the ''Disable Button''.. Sorry xDD.

Dates: The 2 Sliders have the same SV. And the 3 Points are in the same place of the plane. (x:200|y:192 / x:256|y:232 / x:312|y:192)
Critique: Osu!Mapping .. Is evolving to something.. ''Digital''.. We have ''Polygon Circles'', Etc.. This is optional... So.. This new Implement need be Optional too.

POSSIBLE 'clandestine' SOLUTIONS:

TheVileOne wrote:

Add a red point to the end of the slider. It works quite well at reducing the curve.

Saten wrote:

If you change the P to a B in the metadata, it becomes a regular one.

108,192,90193,6,0,P|136:232|104:148,1,495
trouble

chan wrote:

Guidelines:

  1. Don't request a toggle for disabling [insert new feature here] unless you want peppy to come to your house with a baseball bat.
--------------Final Edit: This can't be Changed. Thanks for trying guys! We are only users...
Last edited by DaxMasterix , edited 32 times in total.
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish
You have two options - Get used to making arcs using the new three point circle slider style, which just involves putting the middle point in a bit closer, or just use four points to make small arcs. I don't think a disable button is really necessary.
DaxMasterix
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
1,562 posts
Joined February 2010
Topic Starter
DaxMasterix
It costs nothing. That is an argument valid for the 2 ways.
But Really.. I don't say this New Implement is bad.. Otherwise.. Is Excelent. But not in all the maps we like make ''SuperUltraHyperMegaGood Curve Sliders''. Is a good Evolution for the Mapping. But some people like the ''Original''.. If you understand me... There always will be opinions against.. That is the reason because Exists Disable and Enable.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat

chan wrote:

Guidelines:

  1. Don't request a toggle for disabling [insert new feature here] unless you want peppy to come to your house with a baseball bat.
it makes me sad that i've had to repost this post way too often lately :(
DaxMasterix
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
1,562 posts
Joined February 2010
Topic Starter
DaxMasterix

deadbeat wrote:

chan wrote:

Guidelines:

  1. Don't request a toggle for disabling [insert new feature here] unless you want peppy to come to your house with a baseball bat.
it makes me sad that i've had to repost this post way too often lately :(
I can't argue with the rules... but this is unjust... Whatever.. Thanks for the Information. Now I know .. Here a positive but sad Image for me.

------------------------------------------

But is not the same.. Only that. Thanks.
I'm not the only one who wants a baseball bat..
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
Add a red point to the end of the slider. It works quite well at reducing the curve.
DaxMasterix
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
1,562 posts
Joined February 2010
Topic Starter
DaxMasterix

TheVileOne wrote:

Add a red point to the end of the slider. It works quite well at reducing the curve.

Very Nice o.o)b
Saten
Global Moderator
3,866 posts
Joined August 2010
Saten
If you change the P to a B in the metadata, it becomes a regular one.

108,192,90193,6,0,P|136:232|104:148,1,495

pain-in-the-ass but yeah :P

But TVO's suggestion might be better
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
Red point at the end causes a slight imbalance and for longer sliders it becomes really apparent and difficult to use properly. It's necessary to move the mid point a lot closer to the endpoint to get any kind of symmetry.

But thanks Saten, that just made my day a little.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
We could learn to create symmetry with the new sliders. I mean it's not like it's not possible to create the same symmetry with the new sliders, the points are just in different places.
Kite
osu! Alumni
1,372 posts
Joined July 2009
Kite
I miss the old 3 point sliders, the red point solution is good but still not the same.
I'd be happy to see a toggle but I guess that won't happen

(I don't understand what was wrong with 3 point sliders anyways and why this new mechanic / feature has to be forced)
haha5957
1,433 posts
Joined July 2010
haha5957
I would use saten's method for my future mapping if possible.

Curved slider feature sure is great but forcing them makes mapping much more difficult and frustrating, especially when most of mappers now use slightly curved sliders (with three points)for simple 1/2 slider patterns


Kite wrote:

(I don't understand what was wrong with 3 point sliders anyways and why this new mechanic / feature has to be forced)
DaxMasterix
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
1,562 posts
Joined February 2010
Topic Starter
DaxMasterix
Welcome to osu! My friends.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
^Because it was very difficult to make a slider where the last point was properly in the middle of it. It was actually a very sloppy way to make sliders and this way is much cleaner and so there wont be nearly as many awful sliders. And really sliders that don't end perfectly where the last point is cause issues with distance snap, and other calculations. The new arcs is just a benefit to the new sliders. I'm sure we'll be getting more features that weren't possible because the other sliders were just unpredictable.

I'm not saying that the way sliders are is perfect, as the point can go far off the slider end and that can be unintuitive. If that becomes an issue then they can fix it, but for right now, new sliders are the way to go.
Natteke
6,538 posts
Joined August 2009
Natteke
Well shit, I guess this is how I stop mapping
WVS
547 posts
Joined May 2012
WVS
A sldier with a redpoint in the end is just not the same with the regular-old-normal-basic 3 point.

Kite wrote:

I miss the old 3 point sliders, the red point solution is good but still not the same.
I'd be happy to see a toggle but I guess that won't happen

(I don't understand what was wrong with 3 point sliders anyways and why this new mechanic / feature has to be forced)
DaxMasterix
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
1,562 posts
Joined February 2010
Topic Starter
DaxMasterix

Natteke wrote:

Well shit, I guess this is how I stop mapping
About that, About that.. I lost my Inspiration too.. But we are the osu!people. Right?..
Don't take this ''Feature Request'' Like a Normal Feature Request.. Take this like a Suggestion for comfort of all the Mappers.. Who likes this and who don't like this new Implement. <--

FIGHT.

imorandommessage: Natteke Don't leave the Mapping plssssssssssss <3
Last edited by DaxMasterix , edited 1 time in total.
haha5957
1,433 posts
Joined July 2010
haha5957



Just some example here

Above one is with new slider system and below one is with old one. (and, they have curving points at same spot)
If someone asks me which one is better to make a flowing-style map, I would definitely choose old(below) one

Circle sliders are not like total bad but some pattern needs old slider to be best.

just one moar example

-> This pattern becomes :


-> this pattern.
DaxMasterix
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
1,562 posts
Joined February 2010
Topic Starter
DaxMasterix
This can enter in a Big Trouble with the phrase of ''Mapping Style''... But can help in this little Trouble.
We are within our rights.
Last edited by DaxMasterix , edited 1 time in total.
WVS
547 posts
Joined May 2012
WVS

haha5957 wrote:

just one moar example

-> This pattern becomes :


-> this pattern.
mother_ing ugly as _
Nyquill
osu! Alumni
1,781 posts
Joined February 2011
Nyquill
Now that I think of it again,

Should be a toggle. Subtly curved sliders has been part of mapping for as long as anyone can remember. Forcing the new algorithm effectively removes an entire portion of mapping.
DaxMasterix
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
1,562 posts
Joined February 2010
Topic Starter
DaxMasterix
^ Where is the 'Art' Right now.
Zare
1,512 posts
Joined March 2012
Zare
I agree with Kite and the others. This is more of a limitation than an improvement IMO.
I mean, 100% perfectly symmetric sliders are usually not needed. In most cases, I don't even like them. Making everything 100% perfect just doesn't look good and doesn't fit my (and other's) mapping style.

And srsly, it wouldn't hurt ANYONE to just add a toggle. (And stop quoting chan, srsly. There are some things that need to be discussed, the game will improve faster if the community is allowed to tell the devs their opinion. This is no stupid "I want ranked score back :CC" request)
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
There is nothing you can't do with the new algorithm. You just can't do it the same way. Start finding good examples of things to complain about.

Edit: Yet I must concede that having access to both slider types would be useful. Or at least do a phasing out process. I'll support for the cause, just because there's not a huge issue why we couldn't have both types.
Xakyrie
667 posts
Joined February 2011
Xakyrie
haha5957's example was the perfect visual to explain why this should be a disabled feature. It forces already experienced mappers to approach mapping differently; it's not easy at all to create these "subtle" curves anymore. Not always are these extremely curvacious and perfect looking sliders the right fit. Sometimes, it works a whole lot better to implement other less "corrected" sliders. It takes away from the aspect of some creativity. It seems more reasonable and realistic to have this as an option. It's harmonizing as an option and an option only. Otherwise, it only further handicaps already knowledgeable and developed mappers. It does take a lot more time and effort to work around this kind of perfection in order to create faint curves, and as TheVileOne said it can be worked around, but why does it suddenly have to be perfected when people could already do this without the algorithm? The point here is, it just reverses the conveniency roles.

No Algorithm: new mappers < experienced mappers
__Algorithm: new mappers > experienced mappers

And this is not always the case. It could easily work vice versa. All in all, could we just have it as an option? This would benefit both parties on the receiving end.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne

haha5957 wrote:




Just some example here

Above one is with new slider system and below one is with old one. (and, they have curving points at same spot)
If someone asks me which one is better to make a flowing-style map, I would definitely choose old(below) one

Circle sliders are not like total bad but some pattern needs old slider to be best.

just one moar example

-> This pattern becomes :


-> this pattern.
Doesn't look like reinventing sliders to me.



I can create the curve as subtle as I want or make it asymmetrical if I want by moving the move point. Only large changes in the move points will have the arc effect, smaller ones are rather unchanged. I could do it with your other pattern too if I wanted.
WVS
547 posts
Joined May 2012
WVS
Just a damn toggle button to turn this on/off would be perfect.
Nyquill
osu! Alumni
1,781 posts
Joined February 2011
Nyquill
LET US ALL BE CLEAR:
The new algorithm is GOOD (my sliders nearly always looked like this anyways).
Forcing it is not.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes

Before you try to convince me it's really ugly, under certain speeds it plays a lot better than a perfectly curved slider. This would now take at least 5 points to make, not to mention the time required to actually move those 5 points to appropriate spots.
As I said before, it's still possible using the red dot at the end, but then you have to find a new spot for the middle point, which is somewhere closer to the endpoint to prevent the slider having imbalance.
Consider even more extreme variants of this as well.

I am not against the new feature at all, I just don't like it being forced because there was absolutely nothing wrong with the old way of doing things. Time invested for something I liked to do before has just been doubled and I don't really see it as an improvement.
By the way the new system rocks when creating symmetrical patterns, and I really love it, however sometimes it's just not "the thing" I want.
Charles445
Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon
2,881 posts
Joined March 2009
Charles445
A simple toggle box to switch between P sliders and B sliders would solve the issue.
I personally love how Bezier sliders work - I think that points systems allows for much more unique sliders that can be manipulated intuitively. With this new system, it's frustrating to try and make a sharp turn only for it to turn into a circle. There's no reason to restrict the use of the old method.
WVS
547 posts
Joined May 2012
WVS

Charles445 wrote:

A simple toggle box to switch between P sliders and B sliders would solve the issue.
I personally love how Bezier sliders work - I think that points systems allows for much more unique sliders that can be manipulated intuitively. With this new system, it's frustrating to try and make a sharp turn only for it to turn into a circle. There's no reason to restrict the use of the old method.
Charles pretty much took the words out of my keyboard.
Nyquill
osu! Alumni
1,781 posts
Joined February 2011
Nyquill

WVS wrote:

Charles pretty much took the words out of my keyboard.
Kite
osu! Alumni
1,372 posts
Joined July 2009
Kite
I think it's obvious to say that a toggle is the best solution.
Those who want to use the algorithmn just turn it on and those who don't aren't forced to work around it and map in their regular style.

EDIT: Charles ftw
Last edited by Kite , edited 1 time in total.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
Okay that's two BATs. How many more will it take to get this included? Lets see how many we can get to post in this thread.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
While I never get on the very creative end with sliders this is still highly annoying for me when just making simple sliders.
All in all I agree with what lolcubes is saying. Even though it's ugly doesn't mean it plays terrible, it just looks ugly.
If anything this is taking away creativity from mappers, or just making it harder than it should be.
DaxMasterix
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
1,562 posts
Joined February 2010
Topic Starter
DaxMasterix
peppy you there?
Okay.. The conclusion is obvious.. The 2 cases can be accepted with a ''toggle''~
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
I tell you. the people who are going to get this done are the BATs. They are the ones with the persuasion, because peppy can't just tell them to leave if they don't like it.
DaxMasterix
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
1,562 posts
Joined February 2010
Topic Starter
DaxMasterix
we know it. nigga'
Xakyrie
667 posts
Joined February 2011
Xakyrie
There are positives and negatives to both. Having both available would have a more positive outcome seeing as these features would be available to use for everyone, and taking both tools will virtually help the entire community (save for those who find either or useless and not something they'd prefer to use or personal preference) of mappers. It would also convey more opportunities for creativity. As Charles had said, there really is no reason to completely abandon the old method.
Saten
Global Moderator
3,866 posts
Joined August 2010
Saten

Nyquill wrote:

Now that I think of it again,

Should be a toggle. Subtly curved sliders has been part of mapping for as long as anyone can remember. Forcing the new algorithm effectively removes an entire portion of mapping.
there was one




I managed to take a screenshot when it had a toggle.

lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes

Can be just plain text options, with the arrow having on the slider icon (which actually used to be there, however clicking it would lead you to a new screen asking for a slider type). :p
Used New combo icon as an example of how I think it would be best (which is like I said, the way it used to be the first time it was introduced).
Drafura
osu! Alumni
2,620 posts
Joined April 2010
Drafura
For the position of the "box". Why not use the menu where it was a loooooong time ago ?
WVS
547 posts
Joined May 2012
WVS

Sync
osu! Alumni
1,575 posts
Joined April 2011
Sync
I support adding a toggle. The new feature is great -- especially for long sliders; however, it's quite disturbing for older mappers and makes simple techniques that we've grown to come accustom to confusing and awkward.
Cyclohexane
osu! Alumni
4,568 posts
Joined May 2009
Cyclohexane
toggle pls
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
I really think the slider creation is neat but adding a toggle wouldn't hurt too much iirc it sorta had one at least for the circle slider thing.
Saten
Global Moderator
3,866 posts
Joined August 2010
Saten
SPOILER

chan wrote:

Guidelines:

  1. Don't request a toggle for disabling [insert new feature here] unless you want peppy to come to your house with a baseball bat.

I'd say it's a toggle to change the type of slider rather than disabling.
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
I knew it didn't feel right when I started mapping again. Glad to see this request.
Xakyrie
667 posts
Joined February 2011
Xakyrie

Saten wrote:

I'd say it's a toggle to change the type of slider rather than disabling.
Basically. It just permits even more kinds of sliders and opens up more variety.
It's helpful, but the previous shouldn't have to be sacrificed to be beneficial in this case.
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
those
All in the coding. Either way works for me; one way will just take time to adjust to, whereas the other is convenience at a button.
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