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Rhythm Incarnate
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Glad I wasn't the only one who google translated that.
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Rhythm Incarnate
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didnt expected to see overmap in this kind of song 👀
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Natsu wrote:
ah I hope Enon can address your concerns in time, he is going to army in like 1 or 2 day? I think

anyways Enon if you want to apply anything, you can call me anytime

@fartownik would be cool if you can explain this better (so Enon can have a better idea of what's your issue with it):

The whole part starting from 04:30:581 (1) - and ending at 04:32:889 (1) - seems like a total mess and should be remapped.

I will try to explain as deep as possible, but it's hard, the section is just super inconsistent all around.

Compare the first part to 04:32:427 (1) and you will see that they're noticably different (in quality especially), while there's not much differnce in the music. I understand that Enon may have tried to kick off the section with some easy sliders to get the player ready for the upcoming stream part, but it just made it more confusing.

Try looking at it like this: delete the whole section starting from 04:30:581 (1) and ending at 04:32:427 (1), then copy-paste this 04:32:427 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) section to its place and adjust hitsounds accordingly. You will see that it's virtually the same beat with some minor guitar changes that SHOULD NOT be emphasized so much with sliders because they break the intuitivity of the part. The way I just did it makes it both perfectly intuitive to play and follows the music. That part is basically a giant stream with some 1/4 breaks.

If you don't want to map it as a giant stream (which I don't encourage, it's gonna be super hard, unless you aim for it), I'd suggest mapping half of this part with just 1/4 repeat sliders and then introduce the stream in the second part of the guitar solo.
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Also I will show you a clip of Rafis playing this map for the first time. I had the exact same reaction when playing it 2 days ago for the first time.

First part: https://clips.twitch.tv/NeighborlyPopularMoonTheRinger

Second part: https://clips.twitch.tv/KindDeliciousFrogDoritosChip

If the 2nd player in the ranking, a speed player, is not a good enough of an example while playing the map for the first time then I don't know who would be better.

By the way, the map is good overall, I prefer it than Scorpiour's version myself. I just don't want to see another good map get ruined by one bad part in a crucial place of the map.
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Rhythm Incarnate
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someone better at reading like GN- or rustbell
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Grats on qualify~ simple storyboard but very well executed ^^
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Rhythm Incarnate
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Thank you for the posting.

Since I haven't read the posts yet at all, please wait my response until I address the concerns.
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Meat Inspector wrote:
someone better at reading like GN- or rustbell

ok then so you need supreme reading for a 0.10ms part in a 6 minutes long map, because the rest of the map is perfectly readable for a 'regular' player, makes sense
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fartownik wrote:
01:42:935 (6,1) - what is this

At 01:42:935 (6,1) - there's not a single thing pointing out that there should be a 1/4 slider in the music, it's confusing. It's just a continuous 1/4 stream in the music, and that's how it should be mapped. This pattern makes no sense at the moment. Replace 01:42:819 (5) - with a repeating slider with 3 repeats and delete 01:42:935 (6), snap correctly with proper spacing, my suggestion (the way to fix is just a suggestion but this has to be fixed nonetheless).

I was worrying about how I am going to map on this part. Since I really had no idea to do it, I have tried many ways to map it. A small spaced 1/2 pattern, An 1/2 jump, etc........... and I finally found a way to map it, that's the current way. Current way is filling the empty of 01:42:993 - more than I map it as 1/2s. If you ask why 01:42:935 (6) - should be supposed to be 1/4 kick slider, I did believe the sound of 01:42:935 - here is appearing until 01:42:993 - here even though it's really small....

04:32:197 (1,2,1) - ^

you dont do that while the streams are this intense, they're supposed to be easy to read and intuitive to click, right now they're not

If every map is supposed to be easy to play on first try as you referenced, there would be lots of map should be disqualified. Some patterns might be really hard on first try. but, that doesn't mean it should be that easy at all.

I would like to say I want to keep the patterns even if the patterns are not really playable. Because it's supposed to be a really hard map since it's 260 bpm stream map and it's even a 7* map.

Even if a digit player feels hard to play it, I think that's reasonable.


Also the clap hitsound at 01:42:589 (1) - is weird, it should be at the previous white tick 01:42:358 (6) -

Same here 01:43:166 (3) - why would you place a clap at the red tick instead white tick 01:42:819 (5,5) - as you did before?

About the hitsounds, you can hear a common thing on the parts 01:42:589 (1) - 01:42:819 (5,5) - 01:43:166 - you've mentioned which is a really strong sound in the music. I want to emphasize the strong sound.

04:30:927 (1,2) - Looks like you kinda run out of ideas to map this part. Honestly it doesn't fit the music at all, listen in 25%/50%. The music has a static beat that can be easily emphasized with 1/4 sliders (although that would be kinda hard to play). For starters, 04:30:927 (1) - should not be a part of a new combo, it's still a part of the previous pattern, making it a new combo is very confusing as it belongs to the previous section in the music.

humm, I don't think both parts 04:30:581 (1,2,3) - and 04:30:927 (1,2) - are same. I think Dailycare did aim those are supposed to be differently?

The whole part starting from 04:30:581 (1) - and ending at 04:32:889 (1) - seems like a total mess and should be remapped.

This kind of saying doesn't make a manner to the mapper in my opinions. Imagine that someone says your map is totally messed and should be remapped.


Lanturn wrote:
Since the song has a reflec beat version, it means the song is featured in the game as part of it. This would be like a full sized anime opening. We still use the source it appears on, even if its not the version that is directly on the game.

Appearances:
REFLEC BEAT limelight (Recommended as source)
jubeat plus
REFLEC BEAT plus (The sources above cover this, so no need to add this into the tags)

*EDIT* Also add Konami to the tags please.

I already know referencing a map was ranked in past doesn't make sense. but this mapset uses same mp3 of this mapset. and the metadata issue is seemed has been already resolved in this thread p/5280864.

Although some tags you recommended could be added by QAT?


The IMAGE MATERIAL part in the SB at the beginning should show up a bit earlier imo. You barely get any time to read it.
You could also add more at the start of the break like:
"Tatsh", "IMAGE MATERIAL", Beatmap by Names" or "SB by name" fading in separately in this break. You already have a cool setup for it with the white fading over, so additional info on the map would be cool

"You barely get any time to read it." I absolutely did aim this. It really fits to the mood of the part.

and I would like to keep current setup because people could notice the rest info about this map in this thread. and showing of the song tile only is enough cool!


fartownik did mention 01:42:589 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - but there's nothing in the music to support a stream there at all. (01:42:647 - may be an exception, but it isn't that loud tbh) 01:43:108 (2) - also. All in all, this is pretty overmapped. This should follow the drums exclusively and avoid capturing any other minor sounds.
This should be mapped more like how you mapped 02:59:666 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - though it is a bit different.

You could listen to the part more minutely, and will notice there are things to be supposed 01:42:589 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - these streams. It's not overmapped :( and the previous part is different to 02:59:666 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - in the music.

Anyways. Just some things I noticed from doing metadata and looking at fartownik's suggestions.



Thank you for the posting. I rolled back my name for preparing the happen may be happened like disqualify in the future.

I hope my explanation makes sense for you guys.
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Rhythm Incarnate
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Enon wrote:
I was worrying about how I am going to map on this part. Since I really had no idea to do it, I have tried many ways to map it. A small spaced 1/2 pattern, An 1/2 jump, etc........... and I finally found a way to map it, that's the current way. Current way is filling the empty of 01:42:993 - more than I map it as 1/2s. If you ask why 01:42:935 (6) - should be supposed to be 1/4 kick slider, I did believe the sound of 01:42:935 - here is appearing until 01:42:993 - here even though it's really small....


01:42:819 (5,6) - How is (5) different in sound from (6)? Why put a slider at (6) if (5) is a circle and is the same sound just a little different pitch? Be consistent, that's all I'm about. I know you're going to military soon but forcing it going like this into ranked is not a good idea, you'll still make it to qualified in time.

Enon wrote:
If every map is supposed to be easy to play on first try as you referenced, there would be lots of map should be disqualified. Some patterns might be really hard on first try. but, that doesn't mean it should be that easy at all.

Don't bring other maps to justify flaws in your own map. You are right, there's plenty maps that should've been disqualified/corrected in the first place but were not, not everyone can catch everything in every map, but here it's pretty obvious and I noticed it just in time to fix it.

Enon wrote:
This kind of saying doesn't make a manner to the mapper in my opinions. Imagine that someone says your map is totally messed and should be remapped.

Really no offence, I said the 2 second part was bad, not the map. The map is good. (also if someone said that to me and gave me proper arguments then I'd probably remap it).

I hope you don't push this to qualified without proper care just because you're running out of time.

It really should not be up to the mapper if this gets fixed or not, it's a clear issue and a BN should look at this.
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..Sorry for making the part a mess. But I'm not at home now so I can't check what is actually bad. I guess I really tried to do my best for this map. As you know, because this is the last map to Enon before going to army. Even to me lol. Anyway my bad part makes people's feeling bad, then I really want to apologize to you guys.

So what do you guys want? How should I make it better? Give me opinions than the words like a mess please
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fartownik wrote:
The whole part starting from 04:30:581 (1) - and ending at 04:32:889 (1) - seems like a total mess and should be remapped.


When u tell a mapper that something's garbage in their map you should specify exactly what's wrong and hopefully give some suggestions how to fix it.
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fartownik wrote:
01:42:935 (6,1) - what is this
04:32:197 (1,2,1) - ^

you dont do that while the streams are this intense, they're supposed to be easy to read and intuitive to click, right now they're not

At 01:42:935 (6,1) - there's not a single thing pointing out that there should be a 1/4 slider in the music, it's confusing. It's just a continuous 1/4 stream in the music, and that's how it should be mapped. This pattern makes no sense at the moment. Replace 01:42:819 (5) - with a repeating slider with 3 repeats and delete 01:42:935 (6), snap correctly with proper spacing, my suggestion (the way to fix is just a suggestion but this has to be fixed nonetheless).

Using a 1/4 slider there is fine. It's really common in this map to see 1/4 sliders being used like that. I think if you look in the context of the stream, you can probably assume that slider is a 1/4 slider and know to have a 1/2 beat between clicking the slider and beginning the next stream so to me this isn't really an issue xP. You could argue that the kickslider is too close to the start of the stream though, and that could potentially cause players to mess up due to the anti-jump. That might be more reasonable.

Also the clap hitsound at 01:42:589 (1) - is weird, it should be at the previous white tick 01:42:358 (6) -

Same here 01:43:166 (3) - why would you place a clap at the red tick instead white tick 01:42:819 (5,5) - as you did before?

04:30:927 (1,2) - Looks like you kinda run out of ideas to map this part. Honestly it doesn't fit the music at all, listen in 25%/50%. The music has a static beat that can be easily emphasized with 1/4 sliders (although that would be kinda hard to play). For starters, 04:30:927 (1) - should not be a part of a new combo, it's still a part of the previous pattern, making it a new combo is very confusing as it belongs to the previous section in the music.

Song is really messy here... Tbh the rhythm is off, but mainly cuz the song is pretty off too. Like the note on 04:31:100 - is omitted probably to avoid shifting polarities, but listening at 50% you can hear the guitar is emphasized there too. The mapper at least tries to make the rhythm more readable through patterning. you can see the first three kicksliders are arranged in a triangle to create a "set of 3" and the next note is NC"ed to create a separation.
Rhythm is weird, but I think the way it's arranged and spaced make it acceptable.

So yes, I don't disagree with you, the section here is really messy, but imo its really hard to have a "correct" rhythm here because honestly stuff is just off,
and the guitarist seems to be lagging behind compared to the song. Like some notes are too late... but adding bpm shifts here don't make sense because percussion is on time.


The whole part starting from 04:30:581 (1) - and ending at 04:32:889 (1) - seems like a total mess and should be remapped.


Enon asked me for my opinion so here it is. Sry it's not super conclusive. I think you should still reconsider fartownik's concerns or see if he can provide some better alternatives... but he should also accept your reasoning too since it's reasonable imo...
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Enon asked me to give my opinions about these points



fartownik wrote:
01:42:935 (6,1) - what is this
04:32:197 (1,2,1) - ^

you dont do that while the streams are this intense, they're supposed to be easy to read and intuitive to click, right now they're not I really don't think they HAVE to be intuitive and easy to read, a map is also supposed to have its gimmicks to make it a bit memorable, so we need to know if the mapper is going for an easy to ready part or a tricky part

At 01:42:935 (6,1) - there's not a single thing pointing out that there should be a 1/4 slider in the music, it's confusing. It's just a continuous 1/4 stream in the music, and that's how it should be mapped. This pattern makes no sense at the moment. Replace 01:42:819 (5) - with a repeating slider with 3 repeats and delete 01:42:935 (6), snap correctly with proper spacing, my suggestion (the way to fix is just a suggestion but this has to be fixed nonetheless).

Also the clap hitsound at 01:42:589 (1) - is weird, it should be at the previous white tick 01:42:358 (6) -

Same here 01:43:166 (3) - why would you place a clap at the red tick instead white tick 01:42:819 (5,5) - as you did before?

If you listen careful to the stanza and the red tick and listen carefully you're going to notice a pitch difference on them, IMO it's appropiate to use them

04:30:927 (1,2) - Looks like you kinda run out of ideas to map this part. Honestly it doesn't fit the music at all, listen in 25%/50%. The music has a static beat that can be easily emphasized with 1/4 sliders (although that would be kinda hard to play). For starters, 04:30:927 (1) - should not be a part of a new combo, it's still a part of the previous pattern, making it a new combo is very confusing as it belongs to the previous section in the music. if this were my map I'd use 2 1/4 sliders instead of 04:30:927 (1) - but then again I think the repeat fits somehow the music

The whole part starting from 04:30:581 (1) - and ending at 04:32:889 (1) - seems like a total mess and should be remapped. I also have mixed feelings about this, but mmm the music it's really different at this part, so I suppose it's appropiate to do something different there






Anyways Enon while I agree with some of his points, I also do think they are personal things that each mapper make different, so up to you, if you feel you can improve the map go ahead and let me know I'll help you with the requalify.
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fartownik wrote:
Enon wrote:
I was worrying about how I am going to map on this part. Since I really had no idea to do it, I have tried many ways to map it. A small spaced 1/2 pattern, An 1/2 jump, etc........... and I finally found a way to map it, that's the current way. Current way is filling the empty of 01:42:993 - more than I map it as 1/2s. If you ask why 01:42:935 (6) - should be supposed to be 1/4 kick slider, I did believe the sound of 01:42:935 - here is appearing until 01:42:993 - here even though it's really small....


01:42:819 (5,6) - How is (5) different in sound from (6)? Why put a slider at (6) if (5) is a circle and is the same sound just a little different pitch? Be consistent, that's all I'm about. I know you're going to military soon but forcing it going like this into ranked is not a good idea, you'll still make it to qualified in time.

You tell it "a little different pitch", then I think it deserves to be done differently.

Enon wrote:
If every map is supposed to be easy to play on first try as you referenced, there would be lots of map should be disqualified. Some patterns might be really hard on first try. but, that doesn't mean it should be that easy at all.

Don't bring other maps to justify flaws in your own map. You are right, there's plenty maps that should've been disqualified/corrected in the first place but were not, not everyone can catch everything in every map, but here it's pretty obvious and I noticed it just in time to fix it.

I didn't bring any maps here, nobody hurts about it well. and I don't think using other maps as example is bad. because those maps were ranked while the rule is exactly same to current.

Enon wrote:
This kind of saying doesn't make a manner to the mapper in my opinions. Imagine that someone says your map is totally messed and should be remapped.

Really no offence, I said the 2 second part was bad, not the map. The map is good. (also if someone said that to me and gave me proper arguments then I'd probably remap it).

I hope you don't push this to qualified without proper care just because you're running out of time.

It really should not be up to the mapper if this gets fixed or not, it's a clear issue and a BN should look at this.

I have never pushed this map. It's fact I really don't have time for now. but that's not the reason I am not going to fix it. I just think that you concerned is fine for my side.

and A bn and a experienced mapper are saying it's fine to keep.

I noticed you have already reported this map, so it's up to QAT will come to check it.
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