All right, I'm sick of this. Every time I post a map these days, someone who mods it always has to go, "Wow, your mapping style sure is outdated and weird! What a throwback!" What the fuck am I doing that's so outdated? Is it because I actually try and make the map playable for most people, and not some lame, 5.00 difficulty-filled nonstop deathstream fest? What am I doing that's so dumb?

You can't generalize the public.

Some people might like this and that, others wont.

boat wrote:

You can't generalize the public.

Some people might like this and that, others wont.

I'm not trying to generalize. It's just that it seems every last map I post generates this response from one of the modders, and it gives me the impression that I'm doing something wrong.

That's your problem.

on a serious note, I havent't checked your maps, but if you keep getting negative feedback about them and if you're told they're outdated, how about looking at some recent popular maps by popular mappers and see what they do differently?

You have barely 50 playcount per month. I suggest playing more to get accustomed to "modern mapping".

From the opener it seems to me that you know the difference between your maps and current maps.

Technically speaking there's nothing _wrong_ with your mapping style but you have to look at the current meta.
Just as products are made and catered for consumers, so are maps, and unfortunately 2007-style maps don't really appeal to most players now.

"try and make the map playable for most people"
Either this is a stubborn excuse or you are underrating the playing skills of the current playerbase..
(also maps always have room for a variety of difficulties)

Of course I know of a few people who likes old school maps, but they're not the majority so you'll get criticism. You can't please everyone.

Person A : Like playing 2007-2008 maps. Thinks that current mapping style are weird

Person B : always playing 2011 or newer maps. Thinks that 2008 or older maps have weird pattern

Well stuff like that. don't care about what ppl think, just do what you like. I don't think that a BAT member will say " Your mapping style is suck! It's too old! " or something like that

From what i know , here's the general difference between old maps and new maps

- Old maps usually have smaller circles, can reach 7-stars circle size. Circles > Sliders

- New maps usually have bigger circles, only around 4 or 5 stars circle size. Circles < Sliders

I can't help much, cuz i'm not a mapper, so i don't know if this stuff really helps you.

and lastly, imo.

Eh, I thought I'd try p/2326366
See if that makes any sense. Some people probably would disagree with what I said as well, but yeah.

.

xsrsbsns wrote:

From the opener it seems to me that you know the difference between your maps and current maps.

Technically speaking there's nothing _wrong_ with your mapping style but you have to look at the current meta.
Just as products are made and catered for consumers, so are maps, and unfortunately 2007-style maps don't really appeal to most players now.

"try and make the map playable for most people"
Either this is a stubborn excuse or you are underrating the playing skills of the current playerbase..
(also maps always have room for a variety of difficulties)

Of course I know of a few people who likes old school maps, but they're not the majority so you'll get criticism. You can't please everyone.

Why does it matter that everyone follow the "current meta" or "modern mapping"? Why does everyone suddenly equate "old maps" to "bad maps"? Stop generalizing this stuff when a "good map" is subjective and everyone finds different things fun. Someone (like me) might find playing "old maps" fun, and looks at a large number of current maps put together as lazy, safe (zomg fastrank because I made the most generic map of my favorite anime), uncreative mapping.

@OP: I think that, as long as your map reads well, plays well, presents a creative element, and follows ranking criteria, you can map however the hell you want. btw when I get home from the library, I'm going to take a look at your map also.

P.S. You shouldn't give up with your mapping if there's objectively nothing wrong and people just call it "outdated".

I don't think people are saying the maps are bad just because they're outdated here, though.

Kanye West wrote:

xsrsbsns wrote:

From the opener it seems to me that you know the difference between your maps and current maps.

Technically speaking there's nothing _wrong_ with your mapping style but you have to look at the current meta.
Just as products are made and catered for consumers, so are maps, and unfortunately 2007-style maps don't really appeal to most players now.

"try and make the map playable for most people"
Either this is a stubborn excuse or you are underrating the playing skills of the current playerbase..
(also maps always have room for a variety of difficulties)

Of course I know of a few people who likes old school maps, but they're not the majority so you'll get criticism. You can't please everyone.

Why does it matter that everyone follow the "current meta" or "modern mapping"? Why does everyone suddenly equate "old maps" to "bad maps"? Stop generalizing this stuff when a "good map" is subjective and everyone finds different things fun. Someone (like me) might find playing "old maps" fun, and looks at a large number of current maps put together as lazy, safe (zomg fastrank because I made the most generic map of my favorite anime), uncreative mapping.

@OP: I think that, as long as your map reads well, plays well, presents a creative element, and follows ranking criteria, you can map however the hell you want. btw when I get home from the library, I'm going to take a look at your map also.

P.S. You shouldn't give up with your mapping if there's objectively nothing wrong and people just call it "outdated".

Hes saying old-style maps are less popular, which is true, old maps are not as popular as new maps. BATs will always prioritize popular songs/maps, but with enough effort and patience odd-style maps can still get ranked.

Never did he say old maps are not fun, or that he must stop doing what he is doing. No need to get angry.

I've only looked at the Madeon map.

From the highest difficulty map, which I only glanced through a tiny bit, I see perfect spacing, stacks everywhere (for 1/2 tick notes), and nothing difficult (no jumps, special patterns, or whatever).

Spacing has completely changed; what it was before is not what it is today. Today spacing is so convoluted (I don't mean reading it is hard, but I mean how to describe how it works). You have all these seemingly random-ass jumps and random spacing changes, yet people can read perfectly fine the anti-spacing, the jumps, the streams, whatever that's in the map (if you look at it in the perspective of a person who hasn't really seen osu! before). A lot of this has to do with the approach rate, but many times even at AR 7 or lower people can intuitively understand spacing changes and things of that nature.

Just a few things about the map that I see, it probably is pretty opinionated but still:

1. Stacks are really boring when used so much (as it seems like you do with the Madeon map),
2. Perfect spacing throughout the map is boring (the map itself is also quite easy),
3. This thing called "flow" really comes into play into these more so-called modern maps (i.e. instead of having 1/1 beat rests everywhere, you have long continuous 1/2 tick notes or 1/4 streams. Or in easier maps, instead of having 2/1 tick rests everywhere, have more fluidity with continuous 1/1 tick notes to fill the rests. Fluidity also comes when you don't stack notes all the time)
4. Also, this might just be my opinion, but very visibly clear symmetry often time plays badly, like it flows badly and it just doesn't give a very fun feeling. JauiPlaY for example has a lot of symmetry sometimes in his maps, but it's not super visibly clear, but you can see and feel the symmetry (since the symmetry comes from longer patterns). He was kinda just the first thing that came to mind so I used him as an example. Otherwise, you could just not even use symmetry (for example if you look at most maps, you have sliders and circles going sideways and such, and no other notes to couple it on the other side of the horizontal or vertical axis)

The thing about old maps is that for the most part, they aren't badly mapped in that they are readable, but they just aren't that fun anymore. Back then, no one knew how to map like the current meta these days, and back then the old style was how people mapped, so that was supposedly fun and those were the best maps. but with the new current meta, people discovered readable, playable, and more entertaining ways to map (obviously this is subjective, but seriously, the amount of people who seriously prefer maps back in 2008 rather than the current maps today are extremely few). And when you say all maps ranked right now are complete shit, I want you rethink. Why are they complete shit, and what makes 2008 maps better than the ones now? And you can't just list a few good old maps. You need to generalize all, if not most, of the old maps and explain what makes them better than today's maps. I admit there are some good old maps, but I cannot say that for all maps or most maps back in the day. Same with today's maps, a lot of them aren't that fun and a lot are boring, but I still prefer them more than the majority of the old maps (though, not all of the them).

holy fuck this is longer than i thot

There is nothing wrong with mapping style. People are just used to the typical ranked-style of mapping. If a map has 4th notes that aren't rhythmically snapped, I am certain someone will call the map horrible. Are 2007 maps bad? No, but harder to play than current mainstream maps. However, visually on how the map looks + flows; that is different.

Went through all of your Pending maps. If they were Hards in a mapset that also had an Insane then they would be just fine. Yes, they're old-fashioned, but they are intuitive and perfect for someone who has mastered Normals and is starting to learn how to play Hards. However, you should still go into all of those maps and add in jumps where they feel appropriate. It just feels weird if the song says "JUMP FOR JOY!" and there's no jump or if a note is really emphasized yet no jump. Just don't do full screen 1/2 jumps because those are out of place on a Hard.

Also, you need to start using 1/2 sliders in "1/2 streams" on a regular basis. This is a 2008 technique, actually. What it does is make the map flow better since clicking at the same pace for a significant amount of time gets old fast. Just make sure the slider starts on a white tick.

Anyways, the problem is that you *don't* have Insanes so the "Hards" need to be much more Insane-ish to be more appropriate. As such, your best bet is to just make some Insanes.

What I recommend doing is ripping heavily off of ztrot and using AR 8/9 and very fast spacing, with jumps wherever they feel appropriate. Oh, and faster rhythms, of course, but all of the songs have more complex rhythms you can use so you don't have to overmap. GL!

I'm torn. I've gotten a ton of very technical posts going into minute detail about everything I should change, but I don't think I can naturally switch over to all of that, because I personally don't like some of those techniques. Maybe I should just go back to being old-fashioned and ignored.

EDIT: After some more thought, maybe I should find some way to compromise. But it's going to take time, and won't show up in my current maps.

Some ppl like old-style maps you know ~

Otonashi Yuzuru wrote:

Some ppl like old-style maps you know ~

It sure doesn't seem that way.

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/61963

just dropping this here. This is what I'd call a modern old style map, and despite it having a significantly lower rating than the other ranked version of the song, i personally consider this a goddamn fun map. The old style really works out well here. So no, not every old style map is necessarily bad. just map what you think is fitting and good.
But don't map old style just because you're used to it, at least give other modern styles a try, and try to get the best out of everything.

More smoothness and sliders. No need for superstreams lol.