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[Rule] Don't use Short, Full or Cut ver.

posted
Total Posts
109
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
Topic Starter
those
Current Guideline:
Try to refrain from using names such as "Short", "Full", or "Cut Ver." in your map title Unless the extension is part of the song's original title. If you map is substantially shorter than the length of the track, you can add (Cut ver.) to the title.

Ever since http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/1604382, it's come to my attention that there needs to be a consistent way of labeling something as a Cut Version and something as a Short Version. While we're here, we can also discuss TV Size, Full Version, Extended Version, or whatever fits, if necessary.

What should be labeled with Cut Ver.?
A cut in the wave simply refers to the removal of a certain wave section in the music, whether this is at the beginning, end, or a part in the middle.

What should be labeled with Short Ver.?
A Short Version is something that is featured in the source. For example, an OP for an anime is labeled (TV Size), similarly, an OP for a visual novel is labeled (Short Ver.).

What's the difference between the two?
Many themes come with a longer, or full version. A Short Ver. is essentially a Cut Ver. that has already been provided in the album/compilation/soundtrack. A Cut Ver. is a shorter version that someone has made out of the full version, but is not provided in the album/compilation/soundtrack.

Conclusion: from all this, I'd like to propose a rule/guideline that will help make labeling songs more consistent. In general, simply do not add (Short Ver.) or (TV Size) if the song didn't come with it. While this may not be a big issue now, with more and more maps being labeled randomly, there will be a large inconsistency between the two.

Also, while we're on the topic of making metadata more consistent, please continue discussing Eastern Artists Format in this thread: http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/83715
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
this doesn't matter.
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl

ziin wrote:

this doesn't matter.
Scorpiour
2,633 posts
Joined May 2011
Scorpiour
who cares....or...any difference between?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
(TV Size) is already used, the main problem comes with cut / short / full version.

Normally the point is that we dont have 2 maps with the exact same song name but one is the full version and the other is the short version, by default all songs are assumed to be full version, so never add (Full Ver.) unless a certain exception i'll explain in a momment, And whenever it's a song that was used for an opening in somewhere (besides anime) or that is used in a game (DDR for instance) but it's not using the complete song, Short ver. must be used.

As for Full ver. only exception is since in the past there wasnt much mention of this, and let's assume a beatmap got ranked with the song without (Short ver.), in that case (Full ver.) would be appropiate.
wmfchris
osu! Alumni
5,072 posts
Joined March 2008
wmfchris

Sakura wrote:

As for Full ver. only exception is since in the past there wasnt much mention of this, and let's assume a beatmap got ranked with the song without (Short ver.), in that case (Full ver.) would be appropiate.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/540
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/16893

This is a special case where both songs share the same name (officially) but musically, significantly different.

btw I don't really think these stuffs matters because for the full version they are usually indicated in the album (whether they are full ver or extended ver or blah blah blah), unless it's the case mentioned above, and they can be handled individually.
LKs
3,119 posts
Joined August 2009
LKs
I don't see the significance.

1. There are too many labels to cover them all. I have seen 2x speed ver, accelerated ver, xx ver and xx ver. I've made some cut&add work on a song, then how should I depict? A LKs revised ver?
2. Technically, a short ver as you've said is actually a cut ver, but cut by the producer.
Yasora
2,702 posts
Joined May 2010
Yasora
before I click the link... I'm already know, the example is Miya's map -_-
Mithos
636 posts
Joined February 2011
Mithos
I don't see a need for there to be a guideline on Cut Version and Short Version. If you do the cut good enough, it should feel like a short version. Especially if the cut is at the end of the beatmap.
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
Has "Cut ver." been ever used to begin with?

I don't remember any "Cut ver." map, and it still can be called a "Short ver." or even better, be consistent with the single/album title to begin with.

You won't really cut a song at more than 60-70% of it, so calling it "Short ver." if you cut will be consistent too.
There no need to add a guideline for this.
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
Topic Starter
those
Let's say a song uses a form depicted by ABCDEFG. This is called Song.
The Short Version cut by the producer uses parts ABG. This is called Song (Short Ver.).
What would I call a version that I have cut that uses parts ABEFG? Surely it can't be (Short Ver.) as well...
Low
2,006 posts
Joined July 2011
Low

ziin wrote:

this doesn't matter.
Mercurial
Mercurial
Cut Ver.: Cutted by the user who decided to map it.

Short Ver.: Official or Album Version from the artist.

btw.

ziin wrote:

this doesn't matter.

End of this story.
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi

those wrote:

Let's say a song uses a form depicted by ABCDEFG. This is called Song.
The Short Version cut by the producer uses parts ABG. This is called Song (Short Ver.).
What would I call a version that I have cut that uses parts ABEFG? Surely it can't be (Short Ver.) as well...
-Nothing
-Short ver.
-To obtain those type of edit in a decent manner, the used should be a decent arranger or so. so an "Username edit" (if I do something like this... i would use "Haku's Edit") can be decently used, but it doesn't happen than frequently and for the usual cuts, Short ver. is easier and better.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I remember that peppy mentioned that everything should just be assumed to be (osu! ver.)
Mercurial
Mercurial
dB soundworks - It Ends (osu! Ver.)

Sounds cool.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
keyword: "Assumed"

a.k.a dont need to add titles except for TV Sized songs since that's in the name of the song to begin with.
Mercurial
Mercurial
So... What's the end of this story?
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
Topic Starter
those
Don't add anything then? How can we generalize this for consistency?
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
Well, you used to cut songs because of the limit → there's no duration limit (other than marathon minium) → there's no need
Then: someone can want to make a "special" cut → badly made cuts are not-so-easily-timing-able → you need more "pro" cuts → they're rare and it's acceptable to call them "Username" edit→There's no need
Also: there are different version of some songs. differently arranged → they easily mantain the name of the one who edited or so→ there's no need
Mercurial
Mercurial
Since today I'll add (osu! Ver.) title on all short songs :)
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
This isn't something that needs consistency. If you want to make a standard, sure, but it's just another line in the wall of text that is our rules. We need to make them as simple as possible, and it's not confusing to have:

Bad Apple! (TV Size)
Bad Apple! (Short Ver.)
Bad Apple! (osu! edit)
Bad Apple! (Cut)

Why? Because Bad Apple is first, and the descriptive part is second, which allows it to be alphabetized correctly, and the descriptive part is just there to tell you a little bit about the song. It doesn't matter if all of them are the exact same mp3. It's not even all that important to differentiate between TV size and full, since that information is given to you when you select the song, not that people look at the time length.

@haku
You cut songs because they're incredibly long and tedious. Not because of some arbitrary limit.
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
but you'll actually prefer to cut the end, since it's more easy. (and that mean it's a short(er) ver).
And still other type of cuts are callable "edit" (osu! edit or so), but those are so rare.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
To all MAT and BAT start popping bubbles that use any variant of Short Full Cut Ver unless it is in the title of the song. Amended

There is no need to use any of these types unless they are part of the real song's title
Aurele
Global Moderator
7,514 posts
Joined January 2011
Aurele

ztrot wrote:

To all MAT and BAT start popping bubbles that use any variant of Short Full Cut Ver unless it is in the title of the song. Amended

There is no need to use any of these types unless they are part of the real song's title
*take in notes for my futures beatmaps*

tons of beatmaps will be popped. *w*
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
not really tons just 19 maps in total
Aurele
Global Moderator
7,514 posts
Joined January 2011
Aurele
Well, 19 maps, it's alot.
Charles445
Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon
2,881 posts
Joined March 2009
Charles445
Oh, here's an idea, in order to still classify said songs as 'Short', put 'short' in the tags.
merchat7
1,673 posts
Joined December 2010
merchat7
Just one question regarding this, what if you decide to map a "short ver/tv size" of a song and later on, decide to map a full version of this song? From my understanding (http://osu.ppy.sh/s/37242), you cannot submit two maps with the same name so what will be done?

If this is already changed, just ignore me.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
if you do a TV size chances are the song would have that in it's title if you are being lazy and cut a song and what to do it over you are out of luck.
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc
sooo what about Full Version stuff
LKs
3,119 posts
Joined August 2009
LKs
I'm waiting for someone to update the wiki and write a clear rule before really going to pop those bubbled map.

I'm not sure: Does it mean except for (Tv size), we arn't going to use title extensions unless they are in real song title? Or just refrain from using Shoet ver& Cut Ver& Full Ver?
Colin Hou
osu! Alumni
4,456 posts
Joined November 2009
Colin Hou
unless it's in real song title
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc
so i could have

Tatsh - reunion , the video game version, and Tatsh - reunion, the full version?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

ouranhshc wrote:

so i could have

Tatsh - reunion , the video game version, and Tatsh - reunion, the full version?
That would cause a submission problem it depends on which you submit first in that case i assume.
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc

Sakura wrote:

ouranhshc wrote:

so i could have

Tatsh - reunion , the video game version, and Tatsh - reunion, the full version?
That would cause a submission problem it depends on which you submit first in that case i assume.
okay... that makes a whole lot of sense
merchat7
1,673 posts
Joined December 2010
merchat7
Hmm, by in the title of the song, does this mean something like this? http://vgmdb.net/album/30869 Applies to this beatmap http://osu.ppy.sh/s/39120. If you consider vgmdb an unreliable source, just search around, vgmdb is just easier for me due to it being an English website.

I can probably find more for currently bubbled map if this is the case.

Also, confuse a little, let's say http://vgmdb.net/album/32683 or http://vgmdb.net/album/27055
Knowing short ver. like in vgmdb or Knowing (Short Ver.), which should be used even through one is not the same as official?
And does this mean I have to add full ver to this beatmap? http://osu.ppy.sh/s/32507
秘密仕掛けのapple ／ フルVer. フル=Full
This also means some beatmap will need to have full ver because I have seen this in other ost/single as well.

I wait for replies before posting in that thread.
Miya
2,690 posts
Joined June 2011
Miya
I'm still not sure. So, other than TV size, we can't write short ver or cut ver? What about TV size?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Miya wrote:

I'm still not sure. So, other than TV size, we can't write short ver or cut ver? What about TV size?

Sakura wrote:

keyword: "Assumed"

a.k.a dont need to add titles except for TV Sized songs since that's in the name of the song to begin with.
Colin Hou
osu! Alumni
4,456 posts
Joined November 2009
Colin Hou

merchat7 wrote:

Hmm, by in the title of the song, does this mean something like this? http://vgmdb.net/album/30869 Applies to this beatmap http://osu.ppy.sh/s/39120. If you consider vgmdb an unreliable source, just search around, vgmdb is just easier for me due to it being an English website.

I can probably find more for currently bubbled map if this is the case.

Also, confuse a little, let's say http://vgmdb.net/album/32683 or http://vgmdb.net/album/27055
Knowing short ver. like in vgmdb or Knowing (Short Ver.), which should be used even through one is not the same as official?
And does this mean I have to add full ver to this beatmap? http://osu.ppy.sh/s/32507
秘密仕掛けのapple ／ フルVer. フル=Full
This also means some beatmap will need to have full ver because I have seen this in other ost/single as well.

I wait for replies before posting in that thread.
from the opening PV:



about the FULL Ver. ye you should add it as I see
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
So if I have a 2:30 version of a song, and a 4:30 version of a song, with this new rule, I can no longer differentiate between them?
merchat7
1,673 posts
Joined December 2010
merchat7
Overall, I'm still confused. I have seen countless time in official video and official album that the titles are different, which one should be followed? I also do not understand why only tv size is being kept, I don't think I've seen tv size in any anime opening/ending or in any ost yet except for maybe titles of some youtube video and that's it. Let's just say, the amount of time I've seen tv size is around the same amount as the times I've seen short ver.(ost/theme song/maxi single)

Basically:
-Why is tv size being kept?
-What is a real official title? Please also make this more clear in the respective sections (osu wiki, this post...) for less confusion in the future.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru
If a soundtrack contains the "TV Size" of a song, then it pretty much always has TV Size added to the title (in Japanese, of course). That is why it's being kept.

EDIT: Song naming semantics are confusing, I know. I'd argue that the only thing that's a definite no-no is putting (Full Ver.) in the title of the full version of songs, but w/e.
Sure
4,220 posts
Joined February 2009
Sure

merchat7 wrote:

Overall, I'm still confused. I have seen countless time in official video and official album that the titles are different, which one should be followed? I also do not understand why only tv size is being kept, I don't think I've seen tv size in any anime opening/ending or in any ost yet except for maybe titles of some youtube video and that's it. Let's just say, the amount of time I've seen tv size is around the same amount as the times I've seen short ver.(ost/theme song/maxi single)

Basically:
-Why is tv size being kept?
-What is a real official title? Please also make this more clear in the respective sections (osu wiki, this post...) for less confusion in the future.
This is my sentiments.
They(anime and eroge) are very similar in every points.
Scorpiour
2,633 posts
Joined May 2011
Scorpiour
so no Cut ver/Short ver/Full ver now....

what about other special ver i.e. PV ver, remix ver, or something else?
arien666
6,290 posts
Joined May 2009
arien666
Just add some system about this on osu! ???
Not submission but technically...
Sure
4,220 posts
Joined February 2009
Sure
Until now, we added title extension for specifying its length easily, not for following the real title.
Maybe length shown in game can specify the music. But we don't know whether there exist Full ver. or not through the length.
I really don't see big problem with thing that we did until now.

As arken1015 said, adding some system might be a good solution.
Have any ideas?
Colin Hou
osu! Alumni
4,456 posts
Joined November 2009
Colin Hou

merchat7 wrote:

Overall, I'm still confused. I have seen countless time in official video and official album that the titles are different, which one should be followed? I also do not understand why only tv size is being kept, I don't think I've seen tv size in any anime opening/ending or in any ost yet except for maybe titles of some youtube video and that's it. Let's just say, the amount of time I've seen tv size is around the same amount as the times I've seen short ver.(ost/theme song/maxi single)

Basically:
-Why is tv size being kept?
-What is a real official title? Please also make this more clear in the respective sections (osu wiki, this post...) for less confusion in the future.
for TV Size, it has been used for a long time in our history, and there're already many players choosing maps by this. as full version of OP/ED usually get mapped, it does be a effective way to let us tell the difference between them.

second point, if you find the title in PV and CD booklet different, they should be both acceptable. I'd suggest using the one which is different from other versions' though

about the system for this messed things, I think showing the length of the longest diff in the map list would help in searching, and even the titles are the same, it's still easy for players to get what they need
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
From the wiki

Refrain from using Short, Full, or Cut Ver. in your map title unless the extension is listed in the song's original title. Refer to Wikipedia, Google, or the album track list to confirm.
Sure
4,220 posts
Joined February 2009
Sure

ztrot wrote:

From the wiki

Refrain from using Short, Full, or Cut Ver. in your map title unless the extension is listed in the song's original title. Refer to Wikipedia, Google, or the album track list to confirm.
According to its logic, also TV Size must be removed.

EDIT : OK, I understand what this means.
It seems the video(OP/ED) can't be supporting evidence.
Last edited by Sure , edited 1 time in total.
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