penoreri - Preserved Valkyria · forum

Kroytz

Joined February 2013

Topic Starter

Kroytz 2017-11-30T03:51:10+00:00

1/4 comes too late.. The other drums are more pronounced before this so I'm not sure that's the best comparison.
However, compositionally, it'd be awkward to have a 1/4 drum where previous drums are 1/3 unless broken by a measure but penoreri can do what he likes so what do I know here :T But those I've talked to before say this is also 1/3 so... yeah 1/4 sounds too late

Mir

osu! Alumni

2,151 posts

Joined July 2016

Mir 2017-12-01T16:04:04+00:00

Hi, I'm going to outline a couple of the issues I have with the topdiff in terms of its overall symmetry concept. The jist of it is the symmetry forces random high-spacing jumps on unemphatic notes inconsistently. There's also the fact that the majority of the map is just way too high spacing in places that it ruins any sort of contrast you could make between the kiai and the non-kiai parts.

The Entrance to Valhalla

00:04:953 (1,2) - The song barely started and you already have a half-screen jump. It's a bit excessive I think lol, especially considering 00:07:856 (2,3) - has the same sound on it yet you don't go for this kind of spacing here. It would make sense to, but I would advise against it. I think nerfing these double-jump things would be the best course of action. Overall though, the intro just seems way too much.
00:19:953 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - This is extremely hard to read considering the majority of the intro has utilized this spacing for streams only half of the speed. It's basically asking to be missed on the first runthrough and if you're not paying attention you'll miss it and die instantly. The spacing of this anyways is too high for the song I think, since it's only the intro and while I understand the sound is quite intense, in context the rhythm density itself is enough emphasis, so putting spacing on top of that seems excessive.
00:43:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - The piano is getting softer and lower yet your spacing increases. This doesn't really make sense to represent what the song is doing and I suggest you change it to be the opposite way.
00:48:616 (2,3,1,2) - This is one of many examples here where the spacing is higher than it really needs to be and the angle that it produces is extremely uncomfortable due to how wide it is. At this BPM sharp angles play the best, and you do utilize those sharp angles, but the sudden switch to wide angle right afterwards is very difficult to hit properly and feels extremely awkward in game.
00:50:934 (3,1) - Another very emphasized jump, but really the song is doing nothing different than 00:48:752 (3,1) - which was much less emphasis. The angle here is even harder if you consider how the player has to move from a wide angle to the right all the way to a sharp angle into the left of the screen. Naturally this is very taxing on the player and for a part not as intense as the kiai it doesn't seem very fitting.
00:52:434 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Here the spacing increases substantially despite the song being exactly the same as 00:48:616 (2,3,1,2) - and seems a little bit overemphasizing the same thing and inconsistent with itself at that.
00:57:480 (4,1) - There's so much spacing here and the actual interesting part of the song barely even started. It's also comparable to spacing you use in the kiai at 01:51:343 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - which kind of ruins any contrast the kiai would otherwise give this part. I think in general your non-kiai parts are extremely spaced, adversely affecting how much contrast you can give to the actual kiai. Some more examples of places like this:
1. 01:00:616 (1,2,1,2) -
2. 01:03:343 (1,2) -
3. 01:02:116 (2,3,1) -
Your piano part also has inconsistent emphasis that should be addressed:
1. 01:11:116 (1,2) - 01:08:525 (1,2) - and 01:12:343 (3,4) -
2. 01:09:480 (1,2,3) - and 01:12:071 (1,2,3) -
3. 01:13:298 (3,4,5) - Same spacing as 01:09:480 (1,2,3) - but compare how soft the 1:13 is. Compare 01:14:934 (1,2,3,1) - as well of which the latter 1 is extremely hard to hit with the angle and the spacing seems a bit much too.
4. 01:15:343 (1,2,3,4) - with 01:14:252 (1,2,1,2) - compare how you angled and NC'd this. The base piano you're following has the same rhythm, but the higher pitch piano is the only difference. I would recommend this instead.
5. 01:16:434 (1,2,1,2) -01:17:116 (1,2,1,2) - and 01:14:252 (1,2,1,2) -
6. 01:18:071 (1,2,3,4) - and 01:18:616 (1,2,3,4,5) - should have similar spacing since their intensity is similar.
01:19:298 (6) - Is overmapped, would replace the whole pattern with a pentagon rather than a hexagon here to compensate for its removal?
01:19:843 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - Pitch is decreasing here but spacing is increasing? Seems backwards like that stream in the intro climax.
01:25:161 (1,2,3) - This angle plays so badly, like the implied movement here is so crass, and would play a lot nicer if you didn't blanket 1,2 or did something like 01:29:525 (1,2) - instead.
01:25:571 (3,4,1,2,1,2,3) - I don't really agree with having this much spacing for these notes and the same spacing for 01:27:343 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - which is a lot stronger. I get it's more circles but the movement amount is the same. I would suggest nerfing the first set so the jumps stand out more.
01:28:298 (4,5) - Related to the above, if you want to follow the melody here a slider on 4 would be optimal since the song's melody stops on that and starts on 01:28:571 (1) - again which would reinforce your rhythm more than if you slapped a note on 01:28:434. Seems unnecessary to have something there.
01:29:934 (3,1) - Similarly to the above, you could have a slider here instead to put more contrast on the triple 01:30:207 (2,3,4) - (which honestly should be way more spaced than it is) and follow the melody more succinctly.
01:31:161 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - I don't really know why this gets so much spacing yet 01:34:980 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - gets nowhere near as much despite being similar in intensity and even higher in pitch.
01:46:434 (1,2,1,2) - 01:44:252 (1,2,1,2) - Literally cross screen jumps mapped to what exactly? The piano is low pitched, tense, not highly active here. Spacing like 01:43:707 (1,2,3,4) - is way more reasonable. Then you look at 01:49:161 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - which is way more intense and doesn't have so much spacing, coupled with 01:50:798 (1,2,1,2) - which is more intense yet has the same spacing. Your contrast all over is just dead, there's no contrast at all. Everything feels the same intensity and the song has so much dynamic that isn't being expressed.
01:52:980 (1,2,1,2) - This isn't consistent with what you did above with 01:50:798 (1,2,1,2) - so.. and neither is 01:55:161 (1,2,1,2) - in terms of movement.
01:56:934 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Here, the only place where you actually have some contrast, it turns out to be a bit too much contrast. The song doesn't suddenly drop in intensity like the pattern here implies, but rather it slowly decreases. Something that decreases in intensity more gradually may fit more here.
01:57:889 (1,2,3,4) - With the lack of 1/3 in the last kiai I think having a slider here or something would be nice, or space it significantly more.

Overall I think the symmetry execution here doesn't work for a song of this bpm and definitely doesn't represent the song's actual emphasis. What the style you went with essentially does is force uncomfortable angles and high spacing on notes and phrases that don't deserve it and the map itself seems to forget its own emphasis at points (see the piano part). I really think this could use a lot more work going forward because it's no "targeted hate" that the community dislikes this map, it's just for lack of a better way of explaining it: "overspaced, overdone, and misrepresentative."

I know this is quite far into the qualification process but I was really considering whether or not to post this, but after some consideration I decided it would be worth saying something.

Last edited by Mir 2017-12-01T18:08:57+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

_handholding

3,109 posts

Joined April 2014

_handholding 2017-12-01T17:00:08+00:00

Why are you wallmodding, you already passed the BN apps

I Must Decrease

908 posts

Joined June 2013

I Must Decrease 2017-12-01T18:07:36+00:00

Keep up the good work Mir!

Kroytz

703 posts

Joined February 2013

Topic Starter

Kroytz 2017-12-01T18:53:58+00:00

Mirrukyun~!

Mirrukyun~ wrote:
Hi, I'm going to outline a couple of the issues I have with the topdiff in terms of its overall symmetry concept. The jist of it is the symmetry forces random high-spacing jumps on unemphatic notes inconsistently. There's also the fact that the majority of the map is just way too high spacing in places that it ruins any sort of contrast you could make between the kiai and the non-kiai parts. Hi, so we've talked a bit on Discord and you already know my thoughts as to why I disagree with all of these but I'll relay them on forum because you spent the time to do it here too. First, I'll preface most of these arguments with a classic definition of emphasis faking despite it not being my sole argument for a lot of things:
"The core of emphasis faking lies in using synergistic mapping techniques to augment the implementation of the map as it relates to the song.
At its most quintessential, we can see that the goal of emphasis faking is to holistically create artificial "highs" and "lows" insofar as to make the player feel that a repetitive part of the song is still variable rather than remaining in its fundamental, monotonous state.

As you very well know already, symmetry is the core concept of this map and it's virtually impossible to achieve proper emphasis when using this concept.

The Entrance to Valhalla
00:04:953 (1,2) - The song barely started and you already have a half-screen jump. It's a bit excessive I think lol, especially considering 00:07:856 (2,3) - has the same sound on it yet you don't go for this kind of spacing here. It would make sense to, but I would advise against it. I think nerfing these double-jump things would be the best course of action. Overall though, the intro just seems way too much. I don't believe you're seeing this eye-to-eye with me because the first two objects you pointed out are clear isolated beats compared to the latter. In addition, the latter you mentioned does have about a half-jump spacing (with added slider-leniency) so I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. Yes, the map has only started but I find it important to lay out a foundation for the kind of spacing that will be reflected later in the song but in its' impending increase of density.
00:19:953 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - This is extremely hard to read considering the majority of the intro has utilized this spacing for streams only half of the speed. It's basically asking to be missed on the first runthrough and if you're not paying attention you'll miss it and die instantly. The spacing of this anyways is too high for the song I think, since it's only the intro and while I understand the sound is quite intense, in context the rhythm density itself is enough emphasis, so putting spacing on top of that seems excessive. With the kind of variable spaced streams I have in the beginning sections, whether this is low DS or high DS will always be hard to read because of the different snap. So I opted to the kind of DS I felt comfortable using for this. Also, looking at first-run tries is not a good argument since people who are not familiar with the song beforehand will usually have difficulty. Considering how this is an 8.3* map, it's naturally going to be difficult in multiple aspects...
00:43:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - The piano is getting softer and lower yet your spacing increases. This doesn't really make sense to represent what the song is doing and I suggest you change it to be the opposite way. I can agree with this, but I'll also disagree with it. There are two ways to look at this: ending period dramatically or ending it passively. Both work because it's the end of the period and there's a rhythmic gap to separate what happened beforehand. I decided to make the spacing bigger cuz that's just something I like to do, end phrases or periods with small spikes and then restart the highs/lows on the new phrase or period. Not to mention for this particular stream, the piano ends on a high note so... I believe it reinforces my idea to end it with higher spacing too. I'm sure lowering spacing gradually also works but my idea is also valid.
00:48:616 (2,3,1,2) - This is one of many examples here where the spacing is higher than it really needs to be and the angle that it produces is extremely uncomfortable due to how wide it is. At this BPM sharp angles play the best, and you do utilize those sharp angles, but the sudden switch to wide angle right afterwards is very difficult to hit properly and feels extremely awkward in game. This is the most obvious recurring theme that happens in the map and as to not repeat myself dozens of times I'm just going to say that the spacing is not a real emphasis and that patterns are to be seen individually rather than to compliment each other through general spacing principles.
00:50:934 (3,1) - Another very emphasized jump, but really the song is doing nothing different than 00:48:752 (3,1) - which was much less emphasis. The angle here is even harder if you consider how the player has to move from a wide angle to the right all the way to a sharp angle into the left of the screen. Naturally this is very taxing on the player and for a part not as intense as the kiai it doesn't seem very fitting. It's not a real emphasis. To reiterate, the patterns are meant to be played as one after the other without much connection between NC's (that's why they are NC's afterall).
00:52:434 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - Here the spacing increases substantially despite the song being exactly the same as 00:48:616 (2,3,1,2) - and seems a little bit overemphasizing the same thing and inconsistent with itself at that. This goes back to what I previously stated with my idea for building-up. The song is more/less the same but to keep the map moving and feel like the player is going along with the song, the spacing will gradually increase until it hits it's peak and then the highs/lows reset.
00:57:480 (4,1) - There's so much spacing here and the actual interesting part of the song barely even started. It's also comparable to spacing you use in the kiai at 01:51:343 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - which kind of ruins any contrast the kiai would otherwise give this part. I think in general your non-kiai parts are extremely spaced, adversely affecting how much contrast you can give to the actual kiai. Some more examples of places like this:
01:00:616 (1,2,1,2) -
01:03:343 (1,2) -
01:02:116 (2,3,1) - If I really wanted to, I could just make this a kiai section since it is the base melody for the kiai moments that are included in the map already. I didn't want to make this as a kiai tho because it's not as powerful with jumps as the later parts. What makes this section weaker is how simple the patterns are and how friendly the sliders are to each other. Compared to the later kiais, there is contrast because of higher density of circles and more complicated patterns. The direct symmetry here is not hard to understand than the later parts.
Your piano part also has inconsistent emphasis that should be addressed:
01:11:116 (1,2) - 01:08:525 (1,2) - and 01:12:343 (3,4) -
01:09:480 (1,2,3) - and 01:12:071 (1,2,3) -
01:13:298 (3,4,5) - Same spacing as 01:09:480 (1,2,3) - but compare how soft the 1:13 is. Compare 01:14:934 (1,2,3,1) - as well of which the latter 1 is extremely hard to hit with the angle and the spacing seems a bit much too.
01:15:343 (1,2,3,4) - with 01:14:252 (1,2,1,2) - compare how you angled and NC'd this. The base piano you're following has the same rhythm, but the higher pitch piano is the only difference. I would recommend this instead.
01:16:434 (1,2,1,2) -01:17:116 (1,2,1,2) - and 01:14:252 (1,2,1,2) -
01:18:071 (1,2,3,4) - and 01:18:616 (1,2,3,4,5) - should have similar spacing since their intensity is similar. I looked through all of these and I'm really not sure you're understanding the mapping tbh... You're absolutely trying to nitpick volumes and pitches and keys and as I mapped this, I figured that that would be overly complicated to match with the map. I'd rather have something more simplified and clean to look/play rather than trying to be 1:1 accurate with the song's tone and pitches because frankly, it goes all over the place here. What I do consistently however is isolate the obvious high notes with an antijump 1/2 and separate the basses from the trebles in terms of NCs.
01:19:298 (6) - Is overmapped, would replace the whole pattern with a pentagon rather than a hexagon here to compensate for its removal? It's part of the sheet music.
01:19:843 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - Pitch is decreasing here but spacing is increasing? Seems backwards like that stream in the intro climax. This isn't inherently wrong either as I mentioned before with the stream section.
01:25:161 (1,2,3) - This angle plays so badly, like the implied movement here is so crass, and would play a lot nicer if you didn't blanket 1,2 or did something like 01:29:525 (1,2) - instead. Possible, I chose not to however.
01:25:571 (3,4,1,2,1,2,3) - I don't really agree with having this much spacing for these notes and the same spacing for 01:27:343 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - which is a lot stronger. I get it's more circles but the movement amount is the same. I would suggest nerfing the first set so the jumps stand out more. You understand that it's more circles and that's the exact intention I bring. What you suggest is either nerf the first or buff the latter but the third option of higher density is contrast enough. It's also a bit more complicated to play and it does stand out visually more than the first.
01:28:298 (4,5) - Related to the above, if you want to follow the melody here a slider on 4 would be optimal since the song's melody stops on that and starts on 01:28:571 (1) - again which would reinforce your rhythm more than if you slapped a note on 01:28:434. Seems unnecessary to have something there.
01:29:934 (3,1) - Similarly to the above, you could have a slider here instead to put more contrast on the triple 01:30:207 (2,3,4) - (which honestly should be way more spaced than it is) and follow the melody more succinctly. I showed this to you and one other before but here is the section of the sheet music that helps me define how this jump pattern is to be played out rhythmically
01:31:161 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - I don't really know why this gets so much spacing yet 01:34:980 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - gets nowhere near as much despite being similar in intensity and even higher in pitch. The former you pointed out leads into a stronger period (thats why its higher spacing) where the latter leads into a weaker period (that's why it's a bit lower spacing). Despite their pitches, their place in the music is reflects their intention for how they're mapped with the rest of what's next to come in the song.
01:46:434 (1,2,1,2) - 01:44:252 (1,2,1,2) - Literally cross screen jumps mapped to what exactly? The piano is low pitched, tense, not highly active here. Spacing like 01:43:707 (1,2,3,4) - is way more reasonable. Then you look at 01:49:161 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - which is way more intense and doesn't have so much spacing, coupled with 01:50:798 (1,2,1,2) - which is more intense yet has the same spacing. Your contrast all over is just dead, there's no contrast at all. Everything feels the same intensity and the song has so much dynamic that isn't being expressed. It's the same build-up theme thing I did all throughout the map with just about everything else you've pointed out. It's okay to keep everything spaced the same if the music is all the same but it's also more exciting and convey visual movement if I artificially create the concept of rising points and climaxes which is what this entire map is all about.
01:52:980 (1,2,1,2) - This isn't consistent with what you did above with 01:50:798 (1,2,1,2) - so.. and neither is 01:55:161 (1,2,1,2) - in terms of movement. I'm not really looking for movement here, so much as patterns
01:56:934 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Here, the only place where you actually have some contrast, it turns out to be a bit too much contrast. The song doesn't suddenly drop in intensity like the pattern here implies, but rather it slowly decreases. Something that decreases in intensity more gradually may fit more here. This idea is possible too but I chose not to, the song doesn't end on a high note so that's why all this spacing ends lower. If I ended it higher like some people mentioned, it would be jarring to the last slider since it feels too sudden.
01:57:889 (1,2,3,4) - With the lack of 1/3 in the last kiai I think having a slider here or something would be nice, or space it significantly more.No

Thank you Mir and keep up the good work!

Pachiru

osu! Alumni

2,957 posts

Joined June 2013

Pachiru 2017-12-01T19:21:20+00:00

Kisses wrote:
Why are you wallmodding, you already passed the BN apps

damn dad

Enon

2,690 posts

Joined November 2012

Enon 2017-12-01T20:15:52+00:00

Kisses wrote:
Why are you wallmodding, you already passed the BN apps

To be QAT

Mao

Elite Mapper II

2,963 posts

Joined December 2012

Mao 2017-12-01T21:58:02+00:00

Hey Kroytz, I'm taking this down for now because of the concerns Mir has pointed out. I think you have not replied to all of them properly. Moreover I have some concerns of my own:

[The Entrance to Valhalla]

Kroytz wrote:
00:19:953 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - This is extremely hard to read considering the majority of the intro has utilized this spacing for streams only half of the speed. It's basically asking to be missed on the first runthrough and if you're not paying attention you'll miss it and die instantly. The spacing of this anyways is too high for the song I think, since it's only the intro and while I understand the sound is quite intense, in context the rhythm density itself is enough emphasis, so putting spacing on top of that seems excessive. With the kind of variable spaced streams I have in the beginning sections, whether this is low DS or high DS will always be hard to read because of the different snap. So I opted to the kind of DS I felt comfortable using for this. Also, looking at first-run tries is not a good argument since people who are not familiar with the song beforehand will usually have difficulty. Considering how this is an 8.3* map, it's naturally going to be difficult in multiple aspects...

I think there actually is a way to make it work, you just have to look at the other difficulties! Just use some pretty low spacing at the beginning of the stream, that will introduce players to the fast nature automatically and it's contrast enough because your other streams all start with high spacing.

Kroytz wrote:
01:25:161 (1,2,3) - This angle plays so badly, like the implied movement here is so crass, and would play a lot nicer if you didn't blanket 1,2 or did something like 01:29:525 (1,2) - instead. Possible, I chose not to however.

I agree with Mir on this one and I'd like to hear your reasoning why you placed it like that instead of just brushing it off.

Kroytz wrote:
01:28:298 (4,5) - Related to the above, if you want to follow the melody here a slider on 4 would be optimal since the song's melody stops on that and starts on 01:28:571 (1) - again which would reinforce your rhythm more than if you slapped a note on 01:28:434. Seems unnecessary to have something there.
01:29:934 (3,1) - Similarly to the above, you could have a slider here instead to put more contrast on the triple 01:30:207 (2,3,4) - (which honestly should be way more spaced than it is) and follow the melody more succinctly. I showed this to you and one other before but here is the section of the sheet music that helps me define how this jump pattern is to be played out rhythmically

The part of the music sheet you have posted here is basically confirming Mir's point instead of defending yours. There's a slur between the notes on 4 and 5 which means that they are not played seperately so having that jump to 5 makes no real sense in your pattern structure.

Kroytz wrote:
01:57:889 (1,2,3,4) - With the lack of 1/3 in the last kiai I think having a slider here or something would be nice, or space it significantly more.No

How do you think "No" is an appropriate reply to this? Can you at least please explain your reasoning briefly.

I have some more points to mention about this difficulty:

01:25:980 (1,2,1,2) - The spacing on this seems random to me because there's nothing to emphasize here at all, the song is not doing much from 01:26:116 (2) - on except for holding the note. A slider might be nice there.
01:31:161 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Mir has already mentioned this and I really agree here. I get why you do this but tone the spacing down a bit, it's too much for the sharp turn at 1 and even if 01:34:980 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - leads into something different, the note intensity itself is not that much different.

I also think the contrast between the chorus and sections like 01:40:434 - could be a bit better. The chorus feels more intense in the music but the jumps in all of these sections blend somewhat together.

[Rio's MAXIMUM]

00:23:050 (1,2,3,4) - This pattern gimmick is not introduced well due to the complexity of this pattern. Putting it right after a long stream makes it unpredictable and thus really hard to play. I'd rather go for something similar like Kroytz and introduce spaced 1/3 in general first and then go all out with the patterns,
00:33:889 (2) - Why is there no hitsound on this? Same for 00:35:437 (3) -
00:38:469 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6) - This is quite hard to read because this is almost the spacing you have used for 1/3 before. Just start small like with 00:19:953 - .
00:55:707 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - All of your other patterns were pretty straight-forward and not that overlap-heavy yet here you go all out on an overlap gimmick which makes this way too hard to read.
00:56:798 - Your emphasis in this section is quite weird because the piano emphasises the red ticks like 00:58:026 - yet you decide to put jumps on the white ones like 00:57:889 (1) - . I recommend you doing it like you do at 01:01:161 - .
01:09:889 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Why didn't you split these into groups of two like you do for all the other ones?
01:18:616 (1) - Not really a huge complaint but this double repeat feels out of place in the context of the difficulty.
01:22:980 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - The huge spacing plays really really weird here. You never used such spacings for 1/4 before and afterwards in the map which makes this just feel completely out of place. Also at least silence the slider tails here like Kroytz did. Especially 01:23:798 (1,2) - sounds really bad.
01:25:571 (2) - Is there a reason for this normal finish? Better slap it onto something like 01:26:116 (1) - .
01:28:298 (2,1) - This is about the same thing I explained in Kroytz' diff at 01:28:298 (4,5) - .
01:32:798 - Again, the whole pattern here is something you have never done before in any kind of way which makes it very unexpected and with that a difficulty spike.
01:40:434 - There's a similar issue with emphasis in this part as the song emphasizes notes like 01:41:252 (2) - or 01:46:025 (2) - and even though you followed it nicely with patterns like 01:42:616 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - , you are not consistent enough with it.
01:53:525 - I don't really get the way you handle flow from that point on. Let me explain, you have rotational movement starting at 01:53:525 - but then you suddenly swap to sharp linear movement at 01:54:616 (1,2,1,2) - for no apparant reason.
01:58:343 (1,2) - This spaced 1/3 is pretty awkward to play, better go with a stack here.

Honestly, I think this difficulty needs to be reworked in many ways. Emphasis is inconsistent and there are new concepts thrown at the player out of nowhere. Also the hitsounding could use some work. In general here I'd suggest more mods on this.

[Sharkie's EXHAUST]

00:03:502 (2,3) - Nothing that major but the stack makes this cramped and you used this nowhere else.
00:33:114 - are you sure that you want to go with 0.33 for these? You don't even see sliderticks for reading on the first one which makes this very easy to sliderbreak. I think 0.5 would work well enough considering your SV is low anyways.
00:39:308 (1,2,1,2) - Any particular reasoning behind those being 3/4? There's not really anything on the blue tick that stands out to me.
00:52:434 - This section just builds up into a stream and you are decreasing your density to almost zero? I'd just be consistent with the one before instead of only mapping the drums here.
01:01:434 (3,4) - The emphasis here should be on 4 yet you are using extremely low spacing here.
01:23:798 (3) - Not really a huge deal but this is the only of its kind in the map.
01:49:161 - You are pretty inconsistent with what you are following in this section. You usually follow the drums but then you just go for that piano with 01:52:434 (1,2) - even though you ignore it at places like 01:51:752 -.

Some more mods on this difficulty wouldn't hurt either.

_______________________________

There's quite a lot to do with this set. Good luck!

Ascendance

Elite Mapper

4,225 posts

Joined July 2013

Ascendance 2017-12-01T22:07:25+00:00

I say it a lot but

mapping only the top diff to a set is really lazy to me :/ Obviously it's just my opinion but when you're an experienced mapper, you have higher expectations imo, it just comes across as "hm I'm just gonna map one diff and sit back" instead of putting substantial effort into the creation of your set

MaridiuS

878 posts

Joined June 2014

MaridiuS 2017-12-01T22:33:58+00:00

Ascendance wrote:
I say it a lot but

mapping only the top diff to a set is really lazy to me :/ Obviously it's just my opinion but when you're an experienced mapper, you have higher expectations imo, it just comes across as "hm I'm just gonna map one diff and sit back" instead of putting substantial effort into the creation of your set

better than mapping easy and normal while getting GDs' to fill top diffs tbh.

Ascendance

Elite Mapper

4,225 posts

Joined July 2013

Ascendance 2017-12-01T23:04:32+00:00

I guess, but I wouldn’t be happy with that either if I’m honest haha

In cases like that, it’s usually because they don’t have the skill to map higher diffs, but Kroytz has shown and proven he can which is my point

Kroytz

703 posts

Joined February 2013

Topic Starter

Kroytz 2017-12-01T23:09:31+00:00

More mods on any set wouldn't hurt either, but I'll see what I can do
tyty Mao~

Maokyunn~

Mao wrote:
Hey Kroytz, I'm taking this down for now because of the concerns Mir has pointed out. I think you have not replied to all of them properly. Moreover I have some concerns of my own:

[The Entrance to Valhalla]

Kroytz wrote:
00:19:953 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - This is extremely hard to read considering the majority of the intro has utilized this spacing for streams only half of the speed. It's basically asking to be missed on the first runthrough and if you're not paying attention you'll miss it and die instantly. The spacing of this anyways is too high for the song I think, since it's only the intro and while I understand the sound is quite intense, in context the rhythm density itself is enough emphasis, so putting spacing on top of that seems excessive. With the kind of variable spaced streams I have in the beginning sections, whether this is low DS or high DS will always be hard to read because of the different snap. So I opted to the kind of DS I felt comfortable using for this. Also, looking at first-run tries is not a good argument since people who are not familiar with the song beforehand will usually have difficulty. Considering how this is an 8.3* map, it's naturally going to be difficult in multiple aspects...
I think there actually is a way to make it work, you just have to look at the other difficulties! Just use some pretty low spacing at the beginning of the stream, that will introduce players to the fast nature automatically and it's contrast enough because your other streams all start with high spacing. Whether it starts low->high->low->high or high->low->high->low the fact of the matter is that both extremes of the DS are taken. It's not really about "making it work" but subjugating my idea but finding a compromise with the different snap.

Kroytz wrote:
01:25:161 (1,2,3) - This angle plays so badly, like the implied movement here is so crass, and would play a lot nicer if you didn't blanket 1,2 or did something like 01:29:525 (1,2) - instead. Possible, I chose not to however.
I agree with Mir on this one and I'd like to hear your reasoning why you placed it like that instead of just brushing it off. I said it was possible but I didn't do this at the time. With this Disqualification, maybe I can choose to do this now. The idea is that the circle is a significantly weaker beat,
but in this case it was a bit too weak is all.

Kroytz wrote:
01:28:298 (4,5) - Related to the above, if you want to follow the melody here a slider on 4 would be optimal since the song's melody stops on that and starts on 01:28:571 (1) - again which would reinforce your rhythm more than if you slapped a note on 01:28:434. Seems unnecessary to have something there.
01:29:934 (3,1) - Similarly to the above, you could have a slider here instead to put more contrast on the triple 01:30:207 (2,3,4) - (which honestly should be way more spaced than it is) and follow the melody more succinctly. I showed this to you and one other before but here is the section of the sheet music that helps me define how this jump pattern is to be played out rhythmically
The part of the music sheet you have posted here is basically confirming Mir's point instead of defending yours. There's a slur between the notes on 4 and 5 which means that they are not played seperately so having that jump to 5 makes no real sense in your pattern structure. And we talked in PM about how this is still viable because of the finish sound on the end of the slur. If I used a slider then the finish would not get hit properly, the two circles is okay to use here because of the finish (and because despite it being a slur it still is technically a part of the previous keys.

Kroytz wrote:
01:57:889 (1,2,3,4) - With the lack of 1/3 in the last kiai I think having a slider here or something would be nice, or space it significantly more.No
How do you think "No" is an appropriate reply to this? Can you at least please explain your reasoning briefly. "No" is inappropriate now? Because sliders make the final slider stand out less, and I personally like the straight down the center ending of my four circles versus two sliders on let's say left and right sides or something.

I have some more points to mention about this difficulty:
01:25:980 (1,2,1,2) - The spacing on this seems random to me because there's nothing to emphasize here at all, the song is not doing much from 01:26:116 (2) - on except for holding the note. A slider might be nice there. There is a clear beat on the first (2) but I can add a slider for the second pair of circles instead.
01:31:161 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Mir has already mentioned this and I really agree here. I get why you do this but tone the spacing down a bit, it's too much for the sharp turn at 1 and even if 01:34:980 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - leads into something different, the note intensity itself is not that much different. Except for the fact that even on the aforementioned stream there's a mess of crashes that indicate how much more stronger it is than the latter. The period in which is leads to is important because in this case, the first stream wants to be stronger for a much more demanding phrase where the latter wants to be weaker for a less demanding phrase (as you can hear with the 1/1s and 1/2s).
I also think the contrast between the chorus and sections like 01:40:434 - could be a bit better. The chorus feels more intense in the music but the jumps in all of these sections blend somewhat together. If what you're looking at is spacing alone then that's understandable but the difficulty of the jumps themselves is completely obvious with regards to difficulty and intensity.

Kawashiro

1,522 posts

Joined April 2012

Kawashiro 2017-12-01T23:39:11+00:00

That's why I love Modding v2

If I receive long long wallmodding, I quit osu lol

Sharkie

343 posts

Joined May 2014

Sharkie 2017-12-02T01:08:25+00:00

Mao wrote:
[Sharkie's EXHAUST]
00:03:502 (2,3) - Nothing that major but the stack makes this cramped and you used this nowhere else.
Okay.
00:33:114 - are you sure that you want to go with 0.33 for these? You don't even see sliderticks for reading on the first one which makes this very easy to sliderbreak. I think 0.5 would work well enough considering your SV is low anyways.
Changed.
00:39:308 (1,2,1,2) - Any particular reasoning behind those being 3/4? There's not really anything on the blue tick that stands out to me.
That's why those slider ends are silenced. I wanted to put a circle on the open hi-hats on beat 4 and then beat 2 the following measure.
00:52:434 - This section just builds up into a stream and you are decreasing your density to almost zero? I'd just be consistent with the one before instead of only mapping the drums here.
Okay.
01:01:434 (3,4) - The emphasis here should be on 4 yet you are using extremely low spacing here.
Okay.
01:23:798 (3) - Not really a huge deal but this is the only of its kind in the map.
Yes because it's the only part where you have an extremely noticeable accented hi-hat.
01:49:161 - You are pretty inconsistent with what you are following in this section. You usually follow the drums but then you just go for that piano with 01:52:434 (1,2) - even though you ignore it at places like 01:51:752 -.
I don't think that's inconsistency. The first two measures starting here 01:49:161 - are repeated again. Although the piano doesn't have exactly the same notes, they are extremely similar and have the same rhythmic idea. That changes here 01:53:525 - to a completely different rhythm.
Some more mods on this difficulty wouldn't hurt either.

dif

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-sandAI

286 posts

Joined July 2014

-sandAI 2017-12-02T02:27:24+00:00

still gonna point out and ask why the hitsounding is quieter than Natsu maps?

Kroytz

703 posts

Joined February 2013

Topic Starter

Kroytz 2017-12-02T02:29:14+00:00

Maybe you still have the old custom sounds. Redownload to get rid of them. The hitsound volumes are average 80% now

_handholding

3,109 posts

Joined April 2014

_handholding 2017-12-02T02:50:06+00:00

Kawashiro wrote:
That's why I love Modding v2

If I receive long long wallmodding, I quit osu lol

If I received 50 lines I would quit life

-Atri-

3,047 posts

Joined March 2013

-Atri- 2017-12-02T03:45:59+00:00

Kisses wrote:
Kawashiro wrote:
That's why I love Modding v2

If I receive long long wallmodding, I quit osu lol
If I received 50 lines I would quit life

Same, I won't change anything when it's too long for me to read

melloe

268 posts

Joined February 2013

melloe 2017-12-02T05:30:39+00:00

some thoughts about that piece of sheet music

it's not a slur it's a tie and yeah it means that the 5 is not "technically" part of the previous keys, a tie was used only because the notes are on different sides of the barline. it is played as a crotchet (1/4 note) and not as a quaver (1/8 note) so if you are strictly following melody, there is no point in having the 5 hitcircle.
i'm also not sure what the finish sound has anything to do with it. maps are supposed to be mapped to the music, not to the hitsounds.

that said, i support having the 5 there, because i think it just kinda feels right. i think it's because that's the point where the bass changes chords. there's more to music than melody and drums

Kroytz

703 posts

Joined February 2013

Topic Starter

Kroytz 2017-12-02T05:47:42+00:00

Thank you for clarifying melloe (i gets ties and slurs mixed up zz). What the music provides is a crash where the (5) is located in the song, and that's why the finish is there. To have a slider-end that covers up the finish is really strange to me, so, that's why I too believe having a circle is more fitting~

AncuL

1,114 posts

Joined March 2013

AncuL 2017-12-02T12:25:12+00:00

on the hardest diff, 01:55:707 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - the way on putting NC (and notes) on these sets of notes is a big no for me. this part has a pattern of 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3, not 1-2-1-2-1-2. i believe things similiar to this represents the song better

in a side note, maybe adding NC to every single notes on 01:57:889 (1,2,3,4) - might be better to end the music

edit: similiar thing happens in Rio's diff, 01:53:525 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - has a pattern of 1-2-3-1-2-3 while the mapper mapped it with 1-2-1-2 (actually this happens from 01:49:161 - ) (this has been brought up by Xexxar but i think i do it again for the sake of relevancy)

Last edited by AncuL 2017-12-03T08:55:55+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Nikakis

769 posts

Joined May 2014

Nikakis 2017-12-02T12:34:01+00:00

Kroytz was probably a good student in Geometry, but not so good in the Music Class

Fushimi Rio

Fushimi Rio 2017-12-02T13:02:33+00:00

holiday ends with dq mods

Nao Tomori

Nomination Assessment Team

3,089 posts

Joined December 2014

Nao Tomori 2017-12-02T17:26:57+00:00

arent you used to that by now imouto

Blobbability

126 posts

Joined November 2015

Blobbability 2017-12-03T00:56:22+00:00

Oh rip. An 8* map was stopped from rank.

Genjuro

652 posts

Joined August 2013

Genjuro 2017-12-03T04:03:57+00:00

Nikakis wrote:
Kroytz was probably a good student in Geometry, but not so good in the Music Class

WORSTPOLACKEU

511 posts

Joined May 2013

WORSTPOLACKEU 2017-12-03T12:13:57+00:00

Just a sidenote.

01:25:161 (1,2,3) -
This actually plays better than the thing Nominator whose name I forgotten mentioned.
Also does he really need to explain the thought behind that? He just said he wants it like that and it plays okay, it should be enough.
Stuff like this is done in many maps, forcing blanket because it looks good and could play differently but it still plays ok.

Anyhow, this plays well because nr 3 is below nr 1 and 2 so the emphasis on nr 2 to jump back down is there.
If he would put it like you mentioned, forward, the stop would become very awkward, you have to stop and then move fast in the same direction
which is a really annoying thing to play, many mappers do not notice the small awkward stops, this small bump upwards makes this comfortable.

On the other hand, I do not understand stuff like 01:46:434 (1,2,1,2) -
If you are to follow the music, how do you map the more intense part later on?
This feels more like a jump training now than actual map, I think even for you Kroytz, this is a little too much, song is very calm compared to the rest
and you do screenjumps instead of making it feel like this actually is a part that is between the intense parts.

01:49:161 (1,2) - This is awkward because you jump further with angle being too
CTRL-G 01:49:298 (2,3) - and 01:49:571 (1,2) - and it is comfortable and gives more emphasis imo

Asagi

1,020 posts

Joined March 2013

Asagi 2017-12-03T14:49:26+00:00

Ascendance wrote:
I say it a lot but

mapping only the top diff to a set is really lazy to me :/ Obviously it's just my opinion but when you're an experienced mapper, you have higher expectations imo, it just comes across as "hm I'm just gonna map one diff and sit back" instead of putting substantial effort into the creation of your set

Joe Castle

802 posts

Joined September 2014

Joe Castle 2017-12-03T16:46:59+00:00

Nikakis wrote:
Kroytz was probably a good student in Geometry, but not so good in the Music Class

O O F

Fushimi Rio

Fushimi Rio 2017-12-11T01:40:03+00:00

Mao wrote:
[Rio's MAXIMUM]
00:23:050 (1,2,3,4) - This pattern gimmick is not introduced well due to the complexity of this pattern. Putting it right after a long stream makes it unpredictable and thus really hard to play. I'd rather go for something similar like Kroytz and introduce spaced 1/3 in general first and then go all out with the patterns, changed to a clearer pattern
00:33:889 (2) - Why is there no hitsound on this? Same for 00:35:437 (3) - added a normal-finish sample
00:38:469 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6) - This is quite hard to read because this is almost the spacing you have used for 1/3 before. Just start small like with 00:19:953 - . won't be that hard if players are able to hear the song
00:55:707 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - All of your other patterns were pretty straight-forward and not that overlap-heavy yet here you go all out on an overlap gimmick which makes this way too hard to read. overlapped jumps are hard to read and then hard to play, but things are different for streams
00:56:798 - Your emphasis in this section is quite weird because the piano emphasises the red ticks like 00:58:026 - yet you decide to put jumps on the white ones like 00:57:889 (1) - . I recommend you doing it like you do at 01:01:161 - . because the newly introduced drum track is more inviting in the first two bar (but not the third
01:09:889 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - Why didn't you split these into groups of two like you do for all the other ones? because the song didn't split it
01:18:616 (1) - Not really a huge complaint but this double repeat feels out of place in the context of the difficulty. still structural with the song
01:22:980 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3) - The huge spacing plays really really weird here. You never used such spacings for 1/4 before and afterwards in the map which makes this just feel completely out of place. Also at least silence the slider tails here like Kroytz did. Especially 01:23:798 (1,2) - sounds really bad. muting sliderends are nice idea but this pattern itself is fine im pretty sure
01:25:571 (2) - Is there a reason for this normal finish? Better slap it onto something like 01:26:116 (1) - . ok, not bad
01:28:298 (2,1) - This is about the same thing I explained in Kroytz' diff at 01:28:298 (4,5) - . pattern is following the high-pitch but structure is to drums
01:32:798 - Again, the whole pattern here is something you have never done before in any kind of way which makes it very unexpected and with that a difficulty spike. the song has never done before too but you gave me a nice idea for new pattern
01:40:434 - There's a similar issue with emphasis in this part as the song emphasizes notes like 01:41:252 (2) - or 01:46:025 (2) - and even though you followed it nicely with patterns like 01:42:616 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - , you are not consistent enough with it. the higher-pitch trach is not clear until 01:41:525 - , it's not reasonable to create non-exist rhythms just for consistency
01:53:525 - I don't really get the way you handle flow from that point on. Let me explain, you have rotational movement starting at 01:53:525 - but then you suddenly swap to sharp linear movement at 01:54:616 (1,2,1,2) - for no apparant reason. now its clear
01:58:343 (1,2) - This spaced 1/3 is pretty awkward to play, better go with a stack here. not that awkward if the player is able to play this whole map (otherwise they would fail before this pattern
Honestly, I think this difficulty needs to be reworked in many ways. Emphasis is inconsistent and there are new concepts thrown at the player out of nowhere. Also the hitsounding could use some work. In general here I'd suggest more mods on this.

Thanks for modding!

AncuL wrote:
on the hardest diff, 01:55:707 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - the way on putting NC (and notes) on these sets of notes is a big no for me. this part has a pattern of 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3, not 1-2-1-2-1-2. i believe things similiar to this represents the song better

in a side note, maybe adding NC to every single notes on 01:57:889 (1,2,3,4) - might be better to end the music

edit: similiar thing happens in Rio's diff, 01:53:525 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - has a pattern of 1-2-3-1-2-3 while the mapper mapped it with 1-2-1-2 (actually this happens from 01:49:161 - ) (this has been brought up by Xexxar but i think i do it again for the sake of relevancy)

And this is fixed now

SPOILER

osu file format v14

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Title:Preserved Valkyria
TitleUnicode:Preserved Valkyria
Artist:penoreri
ArtistUnicode:ぺのれり
Creator:Kroytz
Version:Rio's MAXIMUM
Source:SOUND VOLTEX III GRAVITY WARS
Tags:sdvx konami arcade championship kac song contest Renumi Akitoshi pkk Sharkie Zexous Kawashiro Fushimi Rio
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12/14 Edit: Forgot to mute sliderends. Changed the code.

Last edited by Fushimi Rio 2018-01-18T05:20:53+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Kroytz

703 posts

Joined February 2013

Topic Starter

Kroytz 2017-12-20T04:43:16+00:00

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:
01:25:161 (1,2,3) -
This actually plays better than the thing Nominator whose name I forgotten mentioned.
Also does he really need to explain the thought behind that? He just said he wants it like that and it plays okay, it should be enough.
Stuff like this is done in many maps, forcing blanket because it looks good and could play differently but it still plays ok.

So it's like, when I think that two things work here it's that changing this could make more sense as an idea of keeping things relatively spaced higher but leaving this as is, is also fine because I know this plays well already. I was fine with changing this as the previous nominator suggested, but now I'm reluctant too now lol.

Anyhow, this plays well because nr 3 is below nr 1 and 2 so the emphasis on nr 2 to jump back down is there.
If he would put it like you mentioned, forward, the stop would become very awkward, you have to stop and then move fast in the same direction
which is a really annoying thing to play, many mappers do not notice the small awkward stops, this small bump upwards makes this comfortable.

On the other hand, I do not understand stuff like 01:46:434 (1,2,1,2) -
If you are to follow the music, how do you map the more intense part later on?
This feels more like a jump training now than actual map, I think even for you Kroytz, this is a little too much, song is very calm compared to the rest
and you do screenjumps instead of making it feel like this actually is a part that is between the intense parts. As I've mentioned before,
these sequential parts are to gradually get more spaced as a means for progression. It's not necessarily trying to say that this is more intense than something that's to come. I also mentioned once before that the following kiai is more intense already due to lack of sliders. Despite the spacing not being relative with the four circles you highlighted, the intensity comes from the idea that everything is click click click and no room to slider anywhere.

01:49:161 (1,2) - This is awkward because you jump further with angle being too
CTRL-G 01:49:298 (2,3) - and 01:49:571 (1,2) - and it is comfortable and gives more emphasis imo Oh, good idea, I changed this one~

AncuL wrote:
on the hardest diff, 01:55:707 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - the way on putting NC (and notes) on these sets of notes is a big no for me. this part has a pattern of 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3, not 1-2-1-2-1-2. i believe things similiar to this represents the song better A few people mentioned this and I will agree, I changed this for better reflection.

in a side note, maybe adding NC to every single notes on 01:57:889 (1,2,3,4) - might be better to end the music I don't believe this is necessary.

Thank you everyone!
Everything is updated now~

Anxient

1,568 posts

Joined June 2014

Anxient 2017-12-22T02:03:35+00:00

ask and ye shall recieve

Sharkie's EXH
00:12:405 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - this stream looks ugly imo. also plays weird since the piano doesnt really change all that much but the angle deviation is really harsh. better to tone it down. its better to keep it simple and do a curve http://puu.sh/yLubQ/1ab228eaed.jpg

00:15:114 (7,8) - maybe start as a kickslider? ya know, just to give 00:15:308 (1) - that extra kick. you NC'd it anyway so might as well? looks better too. hopefully.

00:17:050 (2) - extend the repeat by 1 tick; theres a sound 00:17:340 - here

00:17:921 - same here

00:19:179 (9) - NC maybe?

00:57:616 (5,2) - woah nice overlap man (it isnt, please fix it) try this http://puu.sh/yLuje/e71dbbb319.jpg

01:38:661 - imo its better to add a note here just to make it feel less empty.

01:47:389 (3) - maybe put it in a more visible spot?

01:48:071 (1,2,3) - im sure you have space to align it perfectly. it aint perfect but you get the idea http://puu.sh/yLur4/c4df77c7d8.jpg

thatz it.

Sharkie

343 posts

Joined May 2014

Sharkie 2017-12-22T02:30:14+00:00

Anxient wrote:

ask and ye shall recieve

Sharkie's EXH
00:12:405 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - this stream looks ugly imo. also plays weird since the piano doesnt really change all that much but the angle deviation is really harsh. better to tone it down. its better to keep it simple and do a curve http://puu.sh/yLubQ/1ab228eaed.jpg
ok
00:15:114 (7,8) - maybe start as a kickslider? ya know, just to give 00:15:308 (1) - that extra kick. you NC'd it anyway so might as well? looks better too. hopefully.
I didn't use kicksliders anywhere in that section, and I think it's okay as is.

00:17:050 (2) - extend the repeat by 1 tick; theres a sound 00:17:340 - here
I didn't map these because these piano sounds aren't accented unlike other parts. Since this is a regular insane, mapping every single note isn't necessary. 00:17:243 - like here.
00:17:921 - same here

00:19:179 (9) - NC maybe?
ok.
00:57:616 (5,2) - woah nice overlap man (it isnt, please fix it) try this http://puu.sh/yLuje/e71dbbb319.jpg
This overlap is fine. Both the head and tail are visible.
01:38:661 - imo its better to add a note here just to make it feel less empty.
ok
01:47:389 (3) - maybe put it in a more visible spot?
ok
01:48:071 (1,2,3) - im sure you have space to align it perfectly. it aint perfect but you get the idea http://puu.sh/yLur4/c4df77c7d8.jpg
ok
thatz it.

imgay

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397,172,94707,2,0,P|433:153|472:121,1,83.9999974365235,2|2,3:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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Doormat

2,049 posts

Joined September 2013

Doormat 2017-12-30T03:50:17+00:00

looks like everything that was discussed post-qualify has been addressed by the mappers, so let's give this another try at ranked~

Mao

Elite Mapper II

2,963 posts

Joined December 2012

Mao 2017-12-30T20:44:41+00:00

There was no consensus reached between Mir and Kroytz, so you are not allowed to rebubble as you were one of the initial nominators.

Also p/6384097 should be addressed.

igorsprite

623 posts

Joined September 2015

igorsprite 2017-12-30T21:54:48+00:00

Nao Tomori

Nomination Assessment Team

3,089 posts

Joined December 2014

Nao Tomori 2017-12-30T23:25:16+00:00

mir did not respond to kroytz's response nor did he further provide arguments after kroytz responded. similarly, imouto answered and as such there's no reason for this to be stopped if there isnt any discussion. if you dont like the map, then veto it. don't just let it sit there for no reason and claim discussion didn't happen, this has happened multiple times and is frankly irritating and stupid and pointless. if there should be further discussion, bring up points for it that address kroytz's responses

also ancul was responded to?

Mir

osu! Alumni

2,151 posts

Joined July 2016

Mir 2017-12-30T23:54:19+00:00

https://pastebin.com/6mjnfu9m

Kroytz and I talked and came to an impasse, seems we can't agree on the execution of the symmetry, and how the song doesn't really support the emphasis the symmetry forces on specific notes/patterns.

Also, yeah, it's my bad I should have come back to this. Sorry Doormat.

Uh, I think this means you need two other nominators that aren't Doormat and Voli to approve this now...?

Kroytz

703 posts

Joined February 2013

Topic Starter

Kroytz 2017-12-31T00:29:40+00:00

@Mao: I responded to AncuL o,o

@Mir: Are you making this a veto? Or are you saying we've agreed to disagree with our mapping idealogies and leave it as that?

Mir

osu! Alumni

2,151 posts

Joined July 2016

Mir 2017-12-31T00:46:40+00:00

Uh yeah this is essentially a veto. Sorry for the confusion.

penoreri - Preserved Valkyria

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penoreri - Preserved Valkyria

Mirrukyun~ wrote:

Kisses wrote:

Kisses wrote:

Kroytz wrote:

Kroytz wrote:

Kroytz wrote:

Kroytz wrote:

Ascendance wrote:

Mao wrote:

Kroytz wrote:

Kroytz wrote:

Kroytz wrote:

Kroytz wrote:

Mao wrote:

Kawashiro wrote:

Kisses wrote:

Kawashiro wrote:

Nikakis wrote:

Ascendance wrote:

Nikakis wrote:

Mao wrote:

AncuL wrote:

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:

AncuL wrote:

Anxient wrote:

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