21:36 Shortthu: hiiii can you give me some opinion about the last diff of this map?
21:36 *Shortthu is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1302386 UVERworld - CORE PRIDE (TV Size)]
21:39 Electoz: not sure why people keep asking me that today
21:39 Electoz: sure
21:39 Shortthu: o ty xd
21:39 Electoz: so what do you want me to look at
21:40 Electoz: in particular
21:40 Shortthu: the last diff
21:41 Shortthu: the structure i guess
21:47 Electoz: 00:01:211 (8) - could NC this I think
21:47 Electoz: since it's the same sound as 00:01:698 (1) - 00:02:184 (1) - ?
21:48 Shortthu: o
21:48 Shortthu: yea
21:49 Shortthu: so i need to re-set all the color through the map looooool
21:49 Electoz: rip
21:50 Electoz: offset sounds off tho
21:50 Electoz: some stuff like 00:50:995 - is noticeably off
21:51 Shortthu: o i took offset from another mapset and didn
21:51 Shortthu: 't notice
21:51 Shortthu: rip
21:51 Electoz: try 431
21:52 Electoz: can you update after you fix the new offset
21:52 Electoz: it's easier for me to look at the map that way lol
21:53 Shortthu: oh okay
21:53 Shortthu: i'll fix the NC too
21:53 Shortthu: so guess i'll use 431
21:53 Shortthu: wait
21:54 Shortthu: i think it sounds earlier
21:54 Electoz: hmm
21:55 Electoz: wait
21:55 Shortthu: i take the mp3 + offset from this mapset
21:55 *Shortthu is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/146941 UVERworld - CORE PRIDE (TV Size)]
21:55 Shortthu: ranked 2013 lul
21:55 Electoz: zzz
21:56 Electoz: though if you use 431 or something around that
21:56 Electoz: it would make stuff like 00:06:268 (2) - off
21:56 Electoz: :thinking:
21:56 Electoz: how about
21:56 Electoz: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/133999
21:57 Shortthu: didn't took mp3 here so idk
21:57 Electoz: no I mean
21:57 Electoz: you could take mp3 from there later
21:57 Shortthu: oh
21:57 Electoz: and see if the offset problem still exists
21:58 Shortthu: okay i'll try
21:58 Electoz: ok so
21:58 Electoz: back to your map
21:58 Electoz: 00:04:130 - drum roll started here tho
21:59 Shortthu: oops
21:59 Shortthu: uwu
21:59 Electoz: 00:02:833 - also, what is your spacing concept tho?
21:59 Electoz: in this part
22:00 Electoz: like, do you use bigger spacing for stronger sounds? or any different ideas used? etc
22:01 Shortthu: hmm
22:01 Shortthu: didn't notice it tho
22:01 Shortthu: ;w;
22:01 Electoz: like, I don't get why 00:03:644 (4,5) - is so largely spaced
22:01 Electoz: apart from aesthetics reasoning
22:01 Electoz: (which still think doesn't fit)
22:01 Electoz: *which I still think
22:02 Electoz: oh wait
22:02 Electoz: the guitar is there
22:02 Electoz: ok I'm drunk
22:02 Shortthu: lol
22:02 Electoz: but 00:04:779 (6,7) - should be spaced bigger tho
22:02 Shortthu: ye i agree
22:03 Electoz: 00:07:049 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - and the pattern plays really off
22:03 Electoz: cuz
22:03 Electoz: 00:07:860 (7,8,1) - should be the one getting emphasis, instead of 00:07:049 (1,2,3,4,5) - 
22:03 Electoz: currently 00:07:860 (7,8,1) - feels a lot easier to play, so it doesn't really stand out (which it should be)
22:04 Shortthu: oh
22:05 Shortthu: so i'll move 00:08:022 (8) - a little bit far
22:05 Electoz: not
22:05 Electoz: quite
22:05 Electoz: like
22:05 Shortthu: UwU
22:05 Electoz: 00:07:860 (7,8,1) - yeah sure you can space this bigger
22:05 Electoz: but even so
22:06 Electoz: it won't become really stand out when compared with 00:07:049 (1,2,3,4,5) - 
22:06 Electoz: idk if I worded this right hmm
22:07 Electoz: like, my point is that 00:07:860 (7,8,1) - should be more stand out than 00:07:049 (1,2,3,4,5) - 
22:07 Shortthu: i mapped it like that because the music goes down from 00:07:049 (1) - to 00:08:184 (1) -
22:07 Electoz: oh
22:07 Electoz: so that's why
22:07 Shortthu: how can i make them more stand out :thinking:
22:07 Electoz: you're using lower spacing on 00:07:860 (7,8,1) - ?
22:08 Electoz: because it goes "down"
22:08 Electoz: or whatever?
22:08 Shortthu: yea
22:08 Electoz: hmm
22:08 Electoz: fair enough I think
22:08 Electoz: 00:10:779 - just to make sure, you're following mainly on vocals, yes?
22:08 Electoz: in this part
22:08 Shortthu: yes
22:09 Shortthu: and some drums
22:11 Electoz: 00:12:400 (3,4) - 00:14:995 (4,5) - 00:17:590 (3,4,5) - any reason for treating these differently?
22:12 Shortthu: 00:17:590 (3,4,5) - seems different tho
22:13 Electoz: mainly I don't like the idea of making 00:17:752 (4) - clickable
22:13 Electoz: can't hear any vocal there
22:13 Electoz: or even if it *exists*
22:13 Shortthu: wait
22:14 Electoz: then it should be a sliderend cuz it's not prominent as 00:17:590 (3) - 
22:14 Shortthu: oh
22:14 Shortthu: i see....
22:16 Shortthu: ok fixed
22:16 Electoz: 00:30:238 (1,2,3,4) - aaa what's your idea behind this
22:16 Electoz: cuz it seems intentional? but I don't know why
22:17 Shortthu: maybe because that part not only have vocal
22:18 Electoz: imo would be better if
22:18 Electoz: 00:30:238 (1,2,3,4) - were circles
22:18 Electoz: and 00:30:887 (5,6,7,8) - were 1/4 sliders
22:19 Electoz: basically what I said is Ctrl+G between measures lol
22:19 Electoz: cuz
22:19 Electoz: 00:30:887 (5,6,7,8) - is not based on vocal, so it would differentiate better, if you use something different than circles
22:20 Shortthu: oh
22:20 Shortthu: so i'll need to change the jump pattern of 00:30:238 (1,2,3,4) - (after ctrl + g)
22:21 Electoz: not sure what you mean by change
22:21 Electoz: but yeah if you switched the rhythms between these two measures
22:21 Electoz: then you'll probably have to move things around a bit
22:21 Shortthu: okay
22:23 Electoz: how do you place jumps?
22:23 Electoz: like
22:23 Electoz: 00:56:346 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - 
22:23 Electoz: what do you consider when you place circles in a jump pattern
22:24 Electoz: do you instinctively go for what do you think it flows best?
22:24 Electoz: or do you have something else in mind?
22:24 Shortthu: i just placed it randomly kms, that's why i'm asking you for some opinion ;w;
22:25 Electoz: so
22:25 Electoz: basically
22:25 Electoz: when you're placing jumps
22:25 Electoz: first thing to consider is aesthetics
22:25 Electoz: probably the most important thing
22:25 Electoz: by aesthetics I mean
22:26 Electoz: giving objects a consistent visual spacing
22:26 Electoz: jumps look good when it looks nice visually
22:26 Electoz: for instance
22:26 Electoz: 00:56:346 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - this is a pattern
22:26 Electoz: 00:56:833 (4,6) - looks so close compared to how other circles are spaced
22:26 Electoz: so it doesn't look clean, polished, or whatever
22:27 Shortthu: got it
22:27 Electoz: so basically when you're making jumps, firstly try to space object equally first
22:27 Electoz: *objects
22:28 Electoz: some mappers just like
22:28 Electoz: let's say for this one, there are 7 circles
22:28 Electoz: some people just map 7 circles, with distance snap
22:28 Electoz: and they switched the order of objects around
22:28 Electoz: to make them a jump pattern
22:28 Electoz: are you following?
22:28 Shortthu: yes
22:29 Shortthu: wait
22:29 Shortthu: guess monstrata do the same thing with triangles?
22:29 Shortthu: so
22:29 Shortthu: i mean i'm following your conversation lol
22:30 Electoz: mmm triangles yes
22:30 Electoz: I think pishi said that in one of his recent videos
22:30 Shortthu: oh
22:30 Electoz: a video of something editor related
22:31 Electoz: can't remember anymore but it should be that one
22:31 Electoz: 01:11:752 (1,2) - stack doesn't play well
22:31 Electoz: when the object at the bottom of the stack
22:31 Electoz: is weaker than the ones on top
22:32 Shortthu: 01:11:914 (2) - is on the red beat tho
22:33 Electoz: 01:11:914 (2) - yeah but my point is that
22:33 Electoz: the red tick is weaker than 01:11:752 (1) - 
22:33 Electoz: generally stack was meant to emphasize the object at the bottom of it
22:33 Electoz: like 01:12:238 (3,4) - 
22:34 Shortthu: o
22:34 Electoz: 00:20:752 - could be mapped
22:35 Shortthu: i hear no sound there...
22:36 Electoz: mm, I still hear a sound there
22:36 Electoz: but whatever
22:36 Electoz: we have different ears
22:36 Shortthu: uwu
22:36 Electoz: 00:11:752 (6,7) - 1/2 slider instead?
22:36 Electoz: cuz vocal isn't on 00:11:914 -
22:37 Shortthu: ok
22:37 Electoz: also 00:11:103 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - somehow doesn't play according to vocals
22:37 Electoz: 00:11:509 - idk could add a circle here too
22:37 Electoz: cuz vocal seems to land earlier than 00:11:590 (5) - 
22:37 Shortthu: rip
22:38 Shortthu: is it in 1/3 beat?
22:38 Electoz: shouldn't be
22:38 Electoz: otherwise it will play really weird
22:38 Electoz: when mapped
22:39 Shortthu: yea
22:39 Shortthu: for example 01:03:644 -
22:39 Shortthu: while map this i found the vocal somewhere off the 1/4 beat
22:40 Electoz: probably the offset thingy
22:40 Electoz: or something
22:40 Electoz: 00:14:833 (3,4) - shouldn't this be spaced more?
22:40 Shortthu: uwu
22:40 Electoz: according to 00:12:238 (2,3) - 
22:41 Shortthu: o
22:42 Shortthu: fixed
22:42 Electoz: this doesn't play well
22:42 Electoz: 00:21:806 (4,5,6) - 
22:42 Electoz: like, when you're placing circles
22:42 Electoz: try not to force a wide angle
22:42 Electoz: like this
22:42 Shortthu: got it
22:42 Electoz: and imo 00:21:968 (5) - isn't worth making a jump
22:42 Electoz: like, there could be some circumstances where wide angles fit
22:43 Electoz: but that's when only the song calls for it
22:43 Shortthu: so i'll make 00:21:806 (4) - to a slider
22:43 Electoz: up to you, I think circles currently also work fine
22:43 Electoz: since 00:21:968 (5) - also has vocal
22:44 Electoz: just that it shouldn't be so largely spaced
22:44 Electoz: compared to others
22:45 Electoz: 00:39:076 (5) - I don't think there's anything here?
22:45 Electoz: at least not audible as 00:39:157 (6,7) - 
22:45 Shortthu: o
22:46 Shortthu: done
22:47 Electoz: the biggest issue of this
22:47 Electoz: would be aesthetics
22:47 Electoz: just like I said about jumps
22:48 Electoz: making things visually consistent
22:48 Electoz: is also the key
22:48 Electoz: to everything
22:48 Electoz: try to
22:48 Electoz: figure the right placements first
22:48 Electoz: and then flow will come after
22:48 Shortthu: okay
22:49 Electoz: once you got the idea where you want to place the objects
22:49 Electoz: then things will be less subjective
22:49 Electoz: less subjective = more consistent throughout the map
22:49 Electoz: so things doesn't look random on here and there lol
22:49 Electoz: also
22:51 Shortthu: yea?
22:51 Electoz: was about to say something
22:51 Electoz: and then I forgot
22:51 Electoz: zzzzzz
22:51 Shortthu: lmao
22:51 Electoz: I have this habit pretty often
22:52 Shortthu: it's fine xd
22:52 Electoz: try to make your map
22:52 Electoz: more conceptual
22:52 Electoz: as much as possible
22:52 Electoz: try to consider like
22:52 Electoz: what rhythms should I follow in this section
22:52 Electoz: aesthetics
22:52 Electoz: flows
22:52 Electoz: etc
22:52 Electoz: from what I've seen in this map
22:53 Electoz: you're already doing that
22:53 Electoz: in some parts
22:53 Shortthu: o
22:53 Electoz: but could be more a bit in depth
22:53 Electoz: on whatever you're considering
22:53 Electoz: like
22:53 Electoz: 01:15:644 - this part
22:53 Electoz: the rhythm has an ok concept
22:53 Electoz: but flows and aesthetics are kinda ambiguous
22:54 Electoz: like this and there everywhere
22:54 Electoz: so it doesn't play well as it should be
22:54 Shortthu: oh
22:54 Shortthu: got
22:54 Shortthu: it
22:54 Shortthu: xd
22:54 Electoz: like
22:54 Electoz: probably you won't get an idea immediately
22:54 Electoz: on what you want to do on this and that etc
22:55 Electoz: but that's some experience stuff which you will get more
22:55 Electoz: as long as you map and mod
22:55 Electoz: ok that should be it I think
22:55 Shortthu: this is kinda my first extra tho
22:55 Electoz: for a quick summary
22:55 Electoz: extra is basically
22:55 Electoz: insane
22:55 Electoz: with higher spacing or more complicated patterns
22:56 Shortthu: o
22:56 Electoz: oh wait
22:56 Electoz: it's
22:56 Electoz: already
22:56 Electoz: an hour
22:56 Electoz: and a half
22:56 Electoz: what
22:57 Shortthu: LUUUUL
22:57 Electoz: ok apparently time didn't fly quickly
22:57 Electoz: do you have anything else to ask
22:57 Electoz: in particular
22:57 Shortthu: guess no more question now
22:57 Shortthu: i'll try remap this
22:57 Shortthu: xd
22:58 Electoz: ye, the map rn has a potential
22:58 Electoz: not a potential to be ranked
22:58 Electoz: but a potential to some good improvements
22:58 Shortthu: oh
22:58 Shortthu: ty
22:59 Electoz: ye no prob