The Approval category was created for maps that had too much score gain so they wouldn't break the rankings, it was never intended for such mapsets to have only hard difficulties, this was for Marathon difficulties only due to their length, but mappers abused this fact by making maps overinsane so it would break the score limit and be able to go with 1 difficulty only.

How it was supposed to work: Marathon Length = 1 diff minimum, no need for easy. Breaks score limit = Make lower difficulties, have a hybrid (ranked with approved diffs) mapset.

Max score is irrelevant nowadays so only long mapsets go for approval now or gimmick maps like ziin's Blythe.

Mappers that decide to take on the challenge to map long songs that don't fit with the Marathon length should be ready to have to work harder to get their mapset ranked, you can always ask modders to only mod part of the mapset (except for MATs and BATs) so that it doesn't become too long for them in the modding queues.

Now hope you understand, but this will not be changing.

Aqo wrote:

I would instantly map lowdiffs for my map if I knew that it would get ranked.

...? It would eventually get ranked at some point if you actually mapped lowdiffs...

And I love how people complain about the ranking system being flawed. You know, it's all about being part of the community.
You complain about some people speedranking their maps, while others have a rough time getting a bubble?
Well guess what, they have friends who support them.
For example Andrea, I'd say he knows like 80% of the osu community and tries to be friendly to everyone.
He knew all of the current MATs and BATs pretty much before they even got that position and was friends with them for a long time. Of course they are more likely to mod and check his map instead of someone who can only complain about the game and be negative.
It's simple.

I understand how you feel calling it unfair.. nobody likes to see a map being ranked in a short amount of time, unless the map was made by one of your friends or so. But this is just how it is, if you keep on complaining you are more likely to be ignored instead of being taken seriously.

If you pick a song for mapping it must mean something special to you, or am I mistaken? Why do you pick exactly THAT song and not something else?
I dont see the big deal in making diffs for 5 minute songs, if you DECIDE to map a 5 min song why cant you bother enough to make more than 1 diff?
As long as the song isn't breakcore or 5minute guitar mashing it's possible to pull it off.
If the song is interesting enough it's not that hard to find people for guest diffs either, you aren't forced to map the whole mapset alone.

Not gonna argue with the point that it's harder to get mods on lengthy songs, because it's true (but if you are serious with your map it's not an impossible task). Also note that this is just one downfall and shouldn't prevent you from mapping the song you choose.

Furthermore I'd like to point out that you shouldnt rush ranks because the map creator is the person who should criticize his/her own maps the most and check on them regularly over time to see if anything needs improvement. Remember, it's important to see that the map is in its best state possible for rank. (For example, if you rush into ranking your map and check on the it a few days later and notice something you would've wanted to design better...)

Finally, this post is not meant to harass or disrespect any person or opinion, just stating my thoughts to this whole matter.
Thanks for your attention ladies and gentlemen.

Sakura wrote:

Now hope you understand, but this will not be changing.

So there is a forum about "discussing rules" where you can't change them because a BAT said so? This is retarded and ridiculous.
Saying "it's your fault if you mapped a long song" is just pushing all of the responsibility and blame to the mapper, and this is a horrible behaviour.

Then provide an argument of why should the time be reduced other than "I dont want to map lower difficulties" or "I dont roll that way", i already mentioned how to get around getting mods for lengthy mapsets so what's the issue now?

Getting mods from normal users is something, for MATs is a completely different thing, js.

And I can tell you 90% of people won't even agree to mod only 1 diff of the mapset. Besides that, #modreqs has never worked for me, imagine that in a long song. Also, mod queues are mostly anime/certain country-related and you need luck to be there on the right time and post something. So now you're telling us that the ranking system is about luck?

Blue Dragon wrote:

Getting mods from normal users is something, for MATs is a completely different thing, js.

So you're proposing that it's a problem with the status of the MAT, not a problem with the ranking criteria.

Getting mods is hard, yes, but you have to realize that people have lives too.

The entire thing is community driven. It can be frustrating, yes, but nobody is OBLIGATED to mod these maps.

I have modded almost 500+ worth of kudosu of maps, I know that it's a STRUGGLE. I have given up a LOT of time to look over maps. I've had people waiting for so long to get mods from me, because I have an actual life to deal with. I'm president of a club, PR of another, I'm in various activites, I spend very little time at home, and I have a LOT of other obligations to fill once I'm at home, especially with college coming up. While I do agree that mods ARE hard to get and it is VERY frustrating to not see any mods, it's not entirely just "THE SYSTEM HATES US." Hell, it's worse for me since I'm considered a "forbidden mapper", where I'm part of that border where I'm too experienced to get mods from "noobie revolution" modders but most experienced modders dislike my maps, have a personal vendetta with me, so I can't get mods. But still, for a process where the entire thing is based off of VOLUNTARY SERVICE with NO REWARD, it's pretty nice.

But I read this topic expecting a discussion about approval time, and now we're at this crap. Make a seprate topic if you wish to discuss modding stuff.

And no I didn't read the topic because if this has gotten derailed this far then I'm scared for what else is happening.

Pretty much if you want somewhere you have discuss how long constitutes a Marathon map, since that's what the rule is aimed at.

Here is what I think

Approvals should be relative. There should be no rule about length. It used to be, it has to get over like 20mill or so, and the song could have 1 or 2 diffs.

Now, why make it a set time? There are not many good songs to map over 6 minutes. What if it is 5:58 seconds? You're going to not approve it?

We shouldn't have a SET rule. If it's a 4 minute map that's 240 bpm and high density (eg t+pazo or renard) then it might have more score than something like a long 140 bpm epic that is 7 minutes. If this is simply about score, and not just making it a long thing for the sake of being long, you're going in the wrong direction. You shouldn't limit players creativity. We may never see a great approval map that is only like 5 minutes long with some epic, sweet SB and lots of thought put into it because of this.

The highest ranked map as of now is 4 minutes long and gives 30million score. Is that really not allowed for approval anymore?

I'm sorry if I offend anyone or seem like i'm talking out of my ass, I have given this considerable thought and wanted to make a topic on it myself (though being a taiko mapper), I felt however it would turn into one of these. And I was somewhat right.

But the overall thing i'm trying to say
Approval shouldn't just be a set thing
It should be a thing as a whole.

You cannot compare apples to oranges because all songs and all maps are different.

And what's wrong with mapping a spread for a song not over 6 minutes?

those wrote:

And what's wrong with mapping a spread for a song not over 6 minutes?

It takes TIME

This is not a job, people have real lives outside of osu

Look at the ranking history for maps in this game

An EX with a full spread takes over a year to rank

If I know it will take me longer than two months to rank a map I won't bother mapping it to begin with

Aqo wrote:

those wrote:

And what's wrong with mapping a spread for a song not over 6 minutes?

It takes TIME

This is not a job, people have real lives outside of osu

Look at the ranking history for maps in this game

An EX with a full spread takes over a year to rank

If I know it will take me longer than two months to rank a map I won't bother mapping it to begin with

if you map to rank maps, then you have the wrong workethic.

Aqo wrote:

...

So why do you think this applies to mapping alone and does not apply to modding?

People are going off track again...

-Post Deleted-

@Aqo: I bet mapping a diffspread is still a faster way to get your map ranked than mapping one diff and getting it graved, or complaining about a rule that's most likely not going to change.

And I doubt this rule is as much about laziness as it is about cathering for the majority of players, and really; most of osu!'s userbase consist of casual players. As you said yourself, only the same few players rank in those "top maps loved by the whole community" with far less plays than many other "mediocre" maps. Having more easy diffs than insane ones reflects osu!'s playerbase. And I don't think we have more easy diffs than insane ones anyway, as many maps tend to have 2 insane diffs.

Not mapping a full song isn't necessarily laziness; a repetitive song would not only be boring to map, but boring to play as well, and some people get tired of long maps, and would rather play shorter ones. The ideal length of a map is (throwing out my own opinion here) probably about 2:30 minutes. You always have the option to cut your song if it's repetitive. If it's not, and you believe you can make it fun for it's whole length, then you shouldn't have a problem mapping lower difficulties either.

And to the diffspread issue: some songs need N/H diffspreads, some need E/N/H/I. That's just how it is. Or are you telling me you would map insane for a song like this: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/55790 (my own map because I know it).

Meh, I'm probably pulling up a few of the old topics in this thread, and honestly I don't really know what I'm talking about anymore. Anyhow, can't rank with 1 diff? make 2. Can't rank it with 2? Make 3.

Let's map Easy/Normal/Hard diffs for Forgotten then, gogo!

Blue Dragon wrote:

Let's map Easy/Normal/Hard diffs for Forgotten then, gogo!

funnily enough, forgotten is an calm song. it should work to make decent easier diffs for it.

look at mad machine. 270 BPM speedcore with a full diffspread. it's not impossible to do.

By the way this thread is going seems like you guys should be discussng the min. diff rule and diff spread rules and not the Marathon length rule, so since you guys aren't reading any of the posts in here, better stop this discussion from getting derailed any further.

After a very long road about Approval being a minimum of six minutes, we're going to try out something new. The new rule has been amended to a five minute requirement!


As always, please don't hesitate to throw me a forum PM if you have any questions regarding this change.