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Mystery Mafia (Town Win!)

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pieguyn
in
Raging Bull
In
Rantai
Sure why not.
Quaraezha
tl;dr here we goooo
My first mafia since last year.
Amianki
/in

Let's do this.
fartownik
Afafafa Kanye I pre-in'd, why am I not on the list :(

Sign me up.
Raging Bull
9/9 send PMs out now :D
Tanzklaue
I'm already planning who to use as guinea pig if I get a mystery role.

*looks mischievoulsy at fartownik*
Topic Starter
Kanye West
okay closed, going to send PM's out if I don't fall asleep first D:

please confirm in thread.
pieguyn
confirm o/
VoidnOwO
Confirm
Raging Bull
confirm and confused teehee.
Rantai
Conf
Tanzklaue
confirm
fartownik
Confirm.
Amianki
Confirm
Topic Starter
Kanye West
Waiting on Quaraezha and Tsukasa and we can start.

After I wake up. xD
Tsukasa
/conufirmu
pieguyn
vote: fartownik gut feeling
*runs*
Raging Bull
wait for Q to start damnit. also HoS pieguy.
Quaraezha
Confirm.
Also a little request to include a link to the thread in all of your PM's.
Topic Starter
Kanye West
You wake up from what seems to be comatose sleep. You seem to have lost all memory of your past life. Dazed and confused, you stumble to the wreckage of the plane to investigate. You find Kanye's body attached to the wreckage. Attached is a note, written in ink which seems to be his blood.

"We are among you. And we will end you."


Kanye West - N0 - Killed

Day 1 Start: Voting deadline in 96 hours.
With nine alive, it takes five votes to hammer.
pieguyn

Raging Bull wrote:

wait for Q to start damnit. also HoS pieguy.
I was just joking :P

now that the game has started:
vote: fartownik gut feeling
*hide*
Raging Bull
Vote:Tsukass
VoidnOwO
:)
Quaraezha

BRBP wrote:

Jokes aside,
Vote: Quaraezha
Beautiful irony.
He's implying that I'm serious, you guys.
fartownik

BRBP wrote:

I believe pieguy missed the breadcrumb.
fartownik
Lol'd. I played so many games and honestly didn't notice it.

Let the stuff begin.
Vote: Raging Bull
Raging Bull
What really? Damn, I thought you knew.
Amianki
Vote: Rantai

There's exactly 73% chance this guy is scum. Hammer with extreme prejudice.

===[]
Tsukasa
This person looks dangerous...

Vote:Tanzklaue
Tsukasa

fartownik wrote:

BRBP wrote:

I believe pieguy missed the breadcrumb.
fartownik
Lol'd. I played so many games and honestly didn't notice it.

Let the stuff begin.
Vote: Raging Bull
OMG HE'S ALREADY LYING!! [b]Vo--[b] *lynched D0.05*
Rantai

CalignoBot wrote:

Vote: Rantai

There's exactly 73% chance this guy is scum. Hammer with extreme prejudice.

===[]
Thems fighting words =D
Raging Bull
@mod Does secret role mean you have a passive ability or vt?
Topic Starter
Kanye West

Raging Bull wrote:

@mod Does secret role mean you have a passive ability or vt?
Can be anything without a night action.
pieguyn
I bet RB has a secret role now just cause he asked XD
not sure if a roleclaim would work in this scenario. after thinking about it for a few seconds, I don't think it would hurt us much, although some of the more useful roles are probably the ones with night actions o.o
Quaraezha
I claim fool with night action.
Tanzklaue
finally something other than RVS t.t

should we really go for the massclaim? I mean, last time we at least knew what everyone could do. now we have a bunch of people who could possibly explode in our faces, so we can't even confirm anyone.
Quaraezha
The only roles we can claim is either Secret or Mystery (Role with unknown action)
And we can't really prove anything with that either unless we do some strategic shit like
"mystery role A will visit secret role B, mystery role C will also visit secret role B,
and then we'll find out what happens tomorrow"

hahaha no
Tanzklaue
okay, I am mystery, and I can't wait to blow someones face off :3
VoidnOwO
:)
VoidnOwO
:)
Amianki
We should not massclaim. Secret roles have the ability to be unlynchable or un-NKable while Mystery roles do not. Mafia would be interested in knowing who's who just to have an easier time with targets.

Plus, this really gives no information towards town anyway.
VoidnOwO
:)
Tanzklaue
well, as long as it's just me, I think we're fine.

I will chose a guinea pig for my ability, if I survive the night it might bring something for us.
Tsukasa

Tanzklaue wrote:

finally something other than RVS t.t

should we really go for the massclaim? I mean, last time we at least knew what everyone could do. now we have a bunch of people who could possibly explode in our faces, so we can't even confirm anyone.
What's to massclaim except secret and mystery?

Also... Massclaim is BAAAAAAAAAAAAD. Makes the scum know who to kill

Guys vote for this guy being anti-town
VoidnOwO
:)
Tanzklaue
I claimed because I'm tired and dumb I thought quara already claimed aswell.

at least I would interpret "fool with nightaction" as that.
Tanzklaue
in retrospect, I don't really understand why I claimed that fast... I am really dumb
VoidnOwO
:)
VoidnOwO
:)
Raging Bull
Yes I'm secret role. Not like that would give much away, especially since I don't even know if I'm VT or some passive ability.
Rantai
For 9 players? I expect it to be 2 scum: 7 town.
fartownik
Massclaim is totally useless in this game, unless you're mafia. It worked in the Stack the Deck because we had some idea of the current roles, but here we have pretty much none. What would massclaim give us? What would be our plan after it? Lynching off the 'VTs' (aka Secret roles) would be invalid here because they might be PRs as well and we don't know what PRs exactly. We know nothing while scum can plan the nightkill more thoroughly.

Unvote
Vote: Tanzklaue

The claim looked like a slip. No one said we massclaim and you rushed with it. Gives me bumps you wanted to cause a domino effect, similar to NH's in the Stack the Deck game.
Tanzklaue
like I said, I thought quara already claimed and I got confused by the explanation he gave.

also, if I wanted to pull off something similiar to what you did, I would've waited longer until a claim of mine would have made it impossible to stop the claim.

also, you have to see it like this: if you lynch me now, you'll lynch a town mystery role and mafia has a free shot this night. if I don't get lynched, it is likely that mafia kills me. if they don't kill me, then I might bring up something useful with my power, which hurts them.

you can still lynch me without too much problem at day 2, but lynching a potential friendly PR at day 1 is really dumb.
pieguyn
hey I was the one who first brought up the idea of a massclaim. I didn't suggest we do it, but either way attack me instead plz
2 mafia seems most likely, 1 is kind of ridiculous (even though it's possible to win I really doubt Kanye would put just 1 mafia) and 3 is too many.
the other idea is Tanz thought it'd be good to announce he had a role for some reason or other, but looking at his posts, that probably wasn't what happened. Could be either a scum slip or he wasn't paying attention/misread my post/etc.
fartownik

Tanzklaue wrote:

like I said, I thought quara already claimed and I got confused by the explanation he gave.

also, if I wanted to pull off something similiar to what you did, I would've waited longer until a claim of mine would have made it impossible to stop the claim.

also, you have to see it like this: if you lynch me now, you'll lynch a town mystery role and mafia has a free shot this night. if I don't get lynched, it is likely that mafia kills me. if they don't kill me, then I might bring up something useful with my power, which hurts them.

you can still lynch me without too much problem at day 2, but lynching a potential friendly PR at day 1 is really dumb.
Throughout the games I learned not to give a fuck about the role when lynching a potential mafia. Your role would mean nothing if you were a likely scum for me.

I'd say Mystery Roles have a similar strength to Secret Roles in this game. I doubt we will manage to successfully determine every PR in the game (even with the potential massclaiming of actions D2), thus Mystery Roles might end up more harmful than helpful for Town.
Quaraezha

Tanzklaue wrote:

like I said, I thought quara already claimed and I got confused by the explanation he gave.
I also claim vigilante without a night action.

I'm just saying that massclaim is a terrible idea, especially for Day 1.
The only strategic D1 massclaim I could think of is for PRs to announce their target so we know what happens to them in D2
Which still sounds pretty fuckin' dumb.

As for the number of mafias,
Having 3 mafia would pretty much make D1 MYLO already.
aka Mislynch and Town loses.
So I'm pretty sure there's just 2 of them.
Quaraezha
Mod: Just making sure. But some (or none) mafias can have their own Mystery Action, yes? A different action other than their usual mafia night kill?
Tanzklaue

fartownik wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

like I said, I thought quara already claimed and I got confused by the explanation he gave.

also, if I wanted to pull off something similiar to what you did, I would've waited longer until a claim of mine would have made it impossible to stop the claim.

also, you have to see it like this: if you lynch me now, you'll lynch a town mystery role and mafia has a free shot this night. if I don't get lynched, it is likely that mafia kills me. if they don't kill me, then I might bring up something useful with my power, which hurts them.

you can still lynch me without too much problem at day 2, but lynching a potential friendly PR at day 1 is really dumb.
Throughout the games I learned not to give a fuck about the role when lynching a potential mafia. Your role would mean nothing if you were a likely scum for me.

I'd say Mystery Roles have a similar strength to Secret Roles in this game. I doubt we will manage to successfully determine every PR in the game (even with the potential massclaiming of actions D2), thus Mystery Roles might end up more harmful than helpful for Town.
I think a mystery role is stronger when not lynched unless it's obv scum. passive roles only can block nightactions, kill the person who targeted them, or plainly do nothing. mystery roles are guaranteed to have some ability, which can be used strategically, unlike the passive powers of secret roles.

also, if the reason for massclaiming being bad is that town PRs make themselves a target, wouldn't it be really dumb to do the dirty work for the scum and killing of the target directly?

all I can say is that I am town, and I think it's much more suspicious to tunnel down on one guy this intensively for a relatively minor reason. I already said, I claimed in confusion and didn't think about the consequences.
Tanzklaue

Quaraezha wrote:

Tanzklaue wrote:

like I said, I thought quara already claimed and I got confused by the explanation he gave.
I also claim vigilante without a night action.

I'm just saying that massclaim is a terrible idea, especially for Day 1.
The only strategic D1 massclaim I could think of is for PRs to announce their target so we know what happens to them in D2
Which still sounds pretty fuckin' dumb.

As for the number of mafias,
Having 3 mafia would pretty much make D1 MYLO already.
aka Mislynch and Town loses.
So I'm pretty sure there's just 2 of them.
I didn't know that you jokeclaim after RVS is technically done. how should I know that?
Topic Starter
Kanye West

Quaraezha wrote:

Mod: Just making sure. But some (or none) mafias can have their own Mystery Action, yes? A different action other than their usual mafia night kill?
It's possible.

Also I was asked via PM whether mystery roles could target themselves. The "mystery" ability is single-target, and cannot be self-targeted. No exceptions.
fartownik

Tanzklaue wrote:

I think a mystery role is stronger when not lynched unless it's obv scum. passive roles only can block nightactions, kill the person who targeted them, or plainly do nothing. mystery roles are guaranteed to have some ability, which can be used strategically, unlike the passive powers of secret roles.

also, if the reason for massclaiming being bad is that town PRs make themselves a target, wouldn't it be really dumb to do the dirty work for the scum and killing of the target directly?

all I can say is that I am town, and I think it's much more suspicious to tunnel down on one guy this intensively for a relatively minor reason. I already said, I claimed in confusion and didn't think about the consequences.
How is a Mystery Role stronger when you have no idea what it is? It'd be stronger if we knew at least one of the roles for sure, but right now we have none and both are pretty much equal. The night actions will be random as fuck, you can never know who performs what action and what are the results of it.

Also I'm not sure what you mean in the 2nd paragraph.

And I'm not 'tunneling' you. I'm putting pressure on you, I'm reaction testing you. That's what you do when you have no leads in D1 (well, not only in D1).
Raging Bull
I'm not entirely sure what massclaim would do here anyways, so that idea seems rather useless. Tanz said Q claimed, but I don't know why would he believe "joker" since all we would get is "mystery/secret" I believe.

Of course, I'm pretty gullible, but I think in this game, it's almost hard to tell what your action is and if you even know if it works.


Tanz, what do you think of your situation right now? How can you convince us your mystery role will make us see you as town if your ability would work?
Quaraezha

Tanzklaue wrote:

I didn't know that you jokeclaim after RVS is technically done. how should I know that?
Because everyone obviously knows their specific role and a fool is best claim.

I also agree with fartownik in terms of secret role = mystery role
The possibility of a bulletproof or grandma lurks within the secret role
And there might be a vigilante among mystery roles too, and that would suck if he killed town.
pieguyn
Mystery and Secret seem to me to be the same if they have a role, the problem is secret roles can also be VTs
with mystery at least we know we have something. also secret roles aren't limited to just blocking NKs, there could be some weird thing (e.g. that one game of mine where there was a switch/nexus/lightning rod/etc.)
Tanzklaue

fartownik wrote:

How is a Mystery Role stronger when you have no idea what it is? It'd be stronger if we knew at least one of the roles for sure, but right now we have none and both are pretty much equal. The night actions will be random as fuck, you can never know who performs what action and what are the results of it.

Also I'm not sure what you mean in the 2nd paragraph.

And I'm not 'tunneling' you. I'm putting pressure on you, I'm reaction testing you. That's what you do when you have no leads in D1 (well, not only in D1).
mytery roles are stronger because they have more potential. a secret role can't actively manipulate the game, it can't interact, only passively react. a secret role doesn't really start out with the potential to be helpful for town. a mystery role, on the other hand, can be really strong. sure, it also can be awful (aka blow of faces), but the potential behind an active PR is almost always bigger than the potential of a passive one. add to that that secret roles could have no power at all...

forget the second paragraph, when I think about it again, it doesn't make too much sense.

overall, as a mystery role, I need to be alive at night to work my magic. lynching active PRs at day 1 isn't really useful to town, in my opinion at least. I also think that fart is town or at least leans town, as his action makes sense (it was a dumb action, I acknowledge that). I know that I contradict my last statement here (about how it's suspicious to tunnel on me), but I'm not really getting vibes from fart. call it "gut feeling".

tsukasa, on the other hand, is still fishy. he quoted my doubt about the massclaim and then accused me of slipping, instead of quoting the actual claim. I get a feeling that he wants to carry over the random vote into a fairly quick lynch.
Tanzklaue

Raging Bull wrote:

I'm not entirely sure what massclaim would do here anyways, so that idea seems rather useless. Tanz said Q claimed, but I don't know why would he believe "joker" since all we would get is "mystery/secret" I believe.
I didn't know fool was a possible PR in mafia games. I thought he just claimed mystery role in a fancy way.
Tanzklaue

Raging Bull wrote:

Tanz, what do you think of your situation right now? How can you convince us your mystery role will make us see you as town if your ability would work?
I don't know how to really convince you that I'm town. like I said in my very first post in this game, mystery roles can basically not confirm anything. I will get some sort of result though, may it some investigation or spontanious face blowing, then I can report that.
fartownik

Tanzklaue wrote:

mytery roles are stronger because they have more potential. a secret role can't actively manipulate the game, it can't interact, only passively react. a secret role doesn't really start out with the potential to be helpful for town. a mystery role, on the other hand, can be really strong. sure, it also can be awful (aka blow of faces), but the potential behind an active PR is almost always bigger than the potential of a passive one. add to that that secret roles could have no power at all...

forget the second paragraph, when I think about it again, it doesn't make too much sense.

overall, as a mystery role, I need to be alive at night to work my magic. lynching active PRs at day 1 isn't really useful to town, in my opinion at least. I also think that fart is town or at least leans town, as his action makes sense (it was a dumb action, I acknowledge that). I know that I contradict my last statement here (about how it's suspicious to tunnel on me), but I'm not really getting vibes from fart. call it "gut feeling".

tsukasa, on the other hand, is still fishy. he quoted my doubt about the massclaim and then accused me of slipping, instead of quoting the actual claim. I get a feeling that he wants to carry over the random vote into a fairly quick lynch.
Of course a Secret Role can manipulate the game, I'd say even better than a Mystery Role. Passively, as you said, but still. And passive or active doesn't mean anything here because we have no clue of what our PRs are. I won't change my mind on the case, we shouldn't look upon potential targets with the role-glass on.
Quaraezha
As discussed. There are most likely 2 mafia, unless a MYLO with 3.

I'm gonna go ahead and
Vote: No Lynch on this one.
With no leads, I'd rather have one town be killed than two in D2.
And I'm interested to see what everyone's abilities are capable of.
Quaraezha
I mean it would totally suck if we lynched a Mystery Role today.
It would forever be a mystery :'(
pieguyn
NL might be ok here just to see what everyone does
plus there's the possibility of a vigilante. due to this, NL + a vig kill #1 would make all the numbers be correct (cause we want an odd number of players during day, e.g. 3 players 2-1, 5 players 3-2 or 4-1 -> 2-1 on mislynch etc.)
I'm thinking NL wouldn't be a bad idea here..
Tanzklaue
I think so too. NL gives every mystery role the chance to find out what they do. in an optimum case, we could even be still 9 people after night 1.
Raging Bull
Why don't we all target one person? at most we would get 2 kills, one from mafia and one from town kill. Perhaps some informatino can be gained from it from all the mystery roles? Hell if we get lucky with tracker/watcher, we can see who didn't target that person. You guys can target me if you like, if I'm grandma, hell town wins then :D
Quaraezha
To be honest, my first impression after hearing that this would be a Mystery Role mafia game
Is to have a situation where one person think he's doc, and protects someone, and ends up killing him.

So I'm pretty sure there's a Vigilante among the Townies. So NL is good.
Quaraezha
And let's not target the same person. Even if things happened to that person, we wouldn't know which of the mystery roles did that to him.

Mod: When someone dies, do you reveal their specific role or if they're just secret/mystery?
Raging Bull
Well I'm saying is that, perhaps one of the mystery role will ahppen to be a informative role.
Quaraezha
Oh yeah, completely forgot the possibility of investigative roles that gets reports.
I suppose there should at least be one. I just fucking hope there's no Insane Cop. Or some other sanity but sane.
Rantai

Raging Bull wrote:

Why don't we all target one person? at most we would get 2 kills, one from mafia and one from town kill. Perhaps some informatino can be gained from it from all the mystery roles? Hell if we get lucky with tracker/watcher, we can see who didn't target that person. You guys can target me if you like, if I'm grandma, hell town wins then :D
Better hope you're not a paranoid gun owner.

I have to agree on the no lynch though. With everyone being anything, I'd rather see what could happen overnight. That and it's more fun that way.
Raging Bull
Well, if I am, at least it was a great way for grandma to kill off 6 people.
pieguyn
vote: No Lynch no one hammer till we've figured everything out plz
oh that's a good point, paranoid gun owner would be hell in a setup like this. Problem is no one knows who he is..
I think it'd be best to target different people cause we have more information that way. Otherwise, we don't know whose role did what, also we get more info on passive roles that way..
fartownik
Unvote
I'm all for No Lynch too, sounds pretty fair. Targeting one person is a horrible idea though. We should probably target randomly and then report the actions D2.
Raging Bull
Mm fine then, just an idea if we can get more information.
Topic Starter
Kanye West

Quaraezha wrote:

Mod: When someone dies, do you reveal their specific role or if they're just secret/mystery?
Please read the OP, thanks.
Quaraezha
Niggerdick. Okay.
fartownik
So guys, who didn't throw his opinion about the No Lynch today should do so.
Amianki
Can you give me a situation where massclaiming targets after a NL would be a good idea? All I'm seeing are situations where it's either actively a BAD idea or mostly unhelpful.
fartownik
Without massclaiming the actions it's high likely we won't be able to find our roles, so if we want to determine them we must do it. We have to establish whether we don't care what the roles are and let players determine them on their own accord or cooperate and find a solution together.
Amianki
Okay, how do we tell if someone's a doctor, roleblocker, etc.? The only real roles that we can tell would be obvious to the person without a mass claim anyway and would be better off staying silent since we have no way of knowing who, if anyone, can stop them from being killed.

It's especially bad to massclaim roles when there's zero or two kills. The former gives scum much more information than town, while the latter makes a vigilante obvious (or mostly obvious, if more than one person targetted the dead guy) without us having a real way to keep them alive.
VoidnOwO
:)
fartownik
We can decide whether we massclaim later tommorrow if we have too few information to go for the lynch. You're right (Caligno) that massclaim might bring us nothing tommorrow, but if we actually do it depends on the night actions themselves. If people will need it to confirm their role then we will go for it. I don't think we should base on blind luck (or more like madness) all the game.
Amianki
I just realized 2 things.

1. We are also not guaranteed to have a secret vigilante or cop. This entire plan hinges on the importance of having at least one of these roles. I strongly doubt that we don't, but it IS possible.

2. No lynching today actively stifles information. Considering that we most likely won't gain anything too concrete tonight, we should make up for it by going through with a lynch today and use the information we get to help us tomorrow.

To be honest, I actually think that no lynch is more universally negative than positive at this point. I don't support this at all.
Tsukasa

BRBP wrote:

What?

It was pieguy's idea, Tanz's post implied he was against it.
We interpret pieguy too different

pieguy1372 wrote:

I bet RB has a secret role now just cause he asked XD
not sure if a roleclaim would work in this scenario. after thinking about it for a few seconds, I don't think it would hurt us much, although some of the more useful roles are probably the ones with night actions o.o

Tanzklaue wrote:

okay, I am mystery, and I can't wait to blow someones face off :3

Tanzklaue wrote:

I claimed because I'm tired and dumb I thought quara already claimed aswell.

at least I would interpret "fool with nightaction" as that.

Tanzklaue wrote:

in retrospect, I don't really understand why I claimed that fast... I am really dumb
And the fact that he's just BEGGING to be lynched...

Raging Bull wrote:

Yes I'm secret role. Not like that would give much away, especially since I don't even know if I'm VT or some passive ability.
DON'T YOU FOLLOW BRO!!!

fartownik wrote:

Massclaim is totally useless in this game, unless you're mafia. It worked in the Stack the Deck because we had some idea of the current roles, but here we have pretty much none. What would massclaim give us? What would be our plan after it? Lynching off the 'VTs' (aka Secret roles) would be invalid here because they might be PRs as well and we don't know what PRs exactly. We know nothing while scum can plan the nightkill more thoroughly.

Unvote
Vote: Tanzklaue

The claim looked like a slip. No one said we massclaim and you rushed with it. Gives me bumps you wanted to cause a domino effect, similar to NH's in the Stack the Deck game.
OMG FART TOWN!!! :O

Tanzklaue wrote:

like I said, I thought quara already claimed and I got confused by the explanation he gave.

also, if I wanted to pull off something similiar to what you did, I would've waited longer until a claim of mine would have made it impossible to stop the claim.

la la la I'm PR don't lynch me pl0x la la la

Tanzklaue wrote:

tsukasa, on the other hand, is still fishy. he quoted my doubt about the massclaim and then accused me of slipping, instead of quoting the actual claim. I get a feeling that he wants to carry over the random vote into a fairly quick lynch.
DEFLECTIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!!

Quaraezha wrote:

As discussed. There are most likely 2 mafia, unless a MYLO with 3.

I'm gonna go ahead and
Vote: No Lynch on this one.
With no leads, I'd rather have one town be killed than two in D2.
And I'm interested to see what everyone's abilities are capable of.
Qua is town. Probably. Maybe. IDK

But I for one don't like the idea of no lynch.
1) Being that mafia can have free kill
2) OMG MASSCLAIM ON D2 MADNESS!!!!!!
3) Scum pool never lessens when we never lynch
Tsukasa
Whoops Double post
Topic Starter
Kanye West
Can a BAT please remove that :/
Quaraezha

Tsukasa wrote:

But I for one don't like the idea of no lynch.
1) Being that mafia can have free kill
2) OMG MASSCLAIM ON D2 MADNESS!!!!!!
3) Scum pool never lessens when we never lynch
Even if we do luckily lynch a mafia today, the other mafia/s can still kill tonight, regardless (unless there's doc/rb)

I know how NL in D1 is usually not the best strategy for other mafia games, but this one is abnormal.
We don't even know what our own roles do, and lynching randomly (or based on mere scumhunt) in this random, unknown setup is just truly absurd.

As for massclaiming on D2, that's for everyone to decide. Keep in mind that Mafia can still easily fake a report without proof.
Quaraezha
Also my bad, I just noticed I said "MYLO with 3 Mafia"
Which it isn't, by the way. I miscounted and thought there were 7 players.
Raging Bull
Lynching randomly still gives us a chance to get scum. It doesn't matter if the other mafia will be alive to send in the kill, they still lost one.
Quaraezha
I want to assume that everyone has at least one specialty and none of us is a regular townie.
And it would be bad to mislynch someone special.

The're also a possibility of having a fool/jester among the Special Roles too.
Raging Bull
The way I read the OP, only scum and town.


@mod, is there a third party?
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