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[Proposal] Restricting Ranked/Loved Status of Commissioned beatmaps

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Topic Starter
Sparhten

"Any beatmap found to be commissioned through monetary or other gains is not eligible for the ranked or loved categories, With the only Exception being that Every file and Source material has explicit permission from the respective creators this includes: SB Sprites, Background art, Mp3/Song's, and every other file found in the folder."


The recent trend of Beatmap commissions has created a large backlash within the mapping community and thus i see no reason not to ban the ranking / loved status of these maps as previously they where considered barely okay due to a vocal few stating that they wanted them in some shape or way to stay comparing it to artists being paid for their work. Beatmaping should not be seen as something that you spend years learning to earn money from if you want something like that as a hobby you should choose another hobby.They are legal issues waiting to happen, they promote low quality mapping with low standards trying to meet the bare minimum to hit the ranked/loved sections, and they create questionable situations with motives of Bn/Nat's when pushing a map.

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

  • Banning commissions wont stop people from doing it behind closed doors so why bother?
  1. Currently the ranking criteria says a commissioned map can be pushed if the bn's involved are not paid for it. Meaning they in theory can still just push them in some extreme cases maybe even so their friends make money off it and who knows maybe that friend buys them a game or some league skins in the future as a thanks for pushing the map. Also in banning them all together this allows us to take action against any bn/Nat's found knowingly pushing these to ranked with punishments such as removal from the bng/nat ect. where currently we can only start an investigation and remove them if we have sufficient evidence that they where paid for the Comission itself.
    Lastly allows us to take more extreme measures if need be and unrank maps / silence or restrict players breaking these rules intentionally for monetary gain.

    I already learned mapping and don't wanted to make money off making maps though.
  2. This proposal doesn't stop you from doing that you can still make commissioned maps they just cannot be ranked or loved as that is seen as official content for the game.

    can i be commissioned for featured artists?
  3. No they made a deal to have their songs used with staff not you, you can ask them or do the preferable route and try out mappers guild where there's plenty of underutilized benefits such as helping choose future FA'S profile badges and more!

    What if i [insert Bn/Nat name here] rank a map without knowing its a commission?
  4. If you didnt not know it was a commission there likely is no need to fear as there wont be any thing saying you knew,
    if your worried about being framed or having a mixup there's a very low chance to that working as staff are very thorough on these checks there are a few cases where haste judgments are made but are usually rectified quite fast i.e. nuvolina and hailie being removed for undeadcapulets commissioned map.
    so in these cases the map would be potentially unranked and the mapper would be punished accordingly

    Punishments for those who try to sneak their way past the system.
  5. Personally i believe that if you try to cheat the system for monetary gain after its made blatantly obvious you should face some sort of capital punishment such as at minimum a month silence scaling to 6 based on infraction count and unranking of the beatmap. after say 5 infractions or less potentially 3 as that would prove you're not learning, a ban as per the regular if you cheated could be imposed. this is the part of the post im unsure about so any suggestions would be appreciated below

Fu Xuan
agree
Nozhomi
It's kinda stupid to spend money on mapping in the first place.

Also agree with that.
hypercyte
big agree
newton-
agree of above average size
3 strikes seems like a good number btw, 5 is too lenient imo
Yukiyo
agree
Zelq
agree
Duskyui
agree
JierYagtama
It's dumb to make a pay wall for mapping so please go ahead with this
Myxo
big agree
Kondou-Shinichi
yes
honne
YeS yeEs Yes YES yeS.
snowin
yes indeed
Monstrata
Some initial copyright grey areas:

What are you guys' stances on songs that are not protected by copyright? Or are royalty-free? What if the artist has not filed a proper copyright? Happens more often than you think with Doujin music especially. Or what if the song is produced in a country whose copyright treaties are not fully protected by US copyright laws? (For example, you can use certain North Korean non-state-sanctioned/approved music regardless of copyrights since NK and US lack treaties protecting all NK songs, only songs approved by the Great Leader are protected.)

Some fine-tuning to the rule:


How would you define "permission". Is it enough for an artist to say "sure, you can use my song"? I assume you also require people to inform the artist that you will be profiting off their work, so I guess the "explicit permission" should include proof that you explicitly told them that there is monetary gain on your part.

The problem with "Legal issues are bound to happen":


Many commissions nowadays range from $10-50. I think only me and Sotarks have ever had 3 or 4 digit commission requests, and I highly doubt anyone else will receive such commissions. The problem is that these numbers are far too small to attract lawsuits anyways. Copyright law is a very rare field, and you are easily looking at lawyers billing $300+ an hour to file lawsuits. I can say with certainty that legal problems are 99.99% not going to arise any time in the near future. I reserve 0.01% if Sony decides it has spare change and wants to try establishing a precedent, but it's so unlikely because the court can also just dismiss for insignificant amount-in-controversy.

Thoughts on commissions and osu!legal:


I personally don't think commissions is any worse than osu!supporter. If anything, I think the entire concept of osu!supporter is what Artists would be more upset about, because rather than missing out on like 10% of a 50 dollar commission, they are actually losing sales due to their works being freely downloadable/hosted. And osu! enjoys sanctimoniously dismissing these claims as "we are promoting their work!!!" So for me, if you want to ban commissions, definitely consider osu!'s revenue stream too. I don't mind banning commissions, because honestly I thought the decision had already been made over a year ago when I announced Mapping Mafia lol. This just seems like writing the community's general stance on commissions into actual Community Rules which honestly should have just been done like 9 months ago anyways. From a legal perspective, it's the better thing to do, and limits peppy's legal risk in the future. But I mean, this entire site is walking on a legal minefield anyways. We aren't like YouTube where you can reasonably expect user-submitted content to be original content. Virtually 99.99% of content on this site is clearly pirated and everyone knows it. Maybe in a few years Mapping Guild will make a dent in that percentage though.
Shidoni
i agree
-Atri-
I'm down on this too
-mint-
based and osupilled. i support
-MysticEyes
Really solid proposal, definitely agree.
Syph

Sparhten wrote:

They are legal issues waiting to happen


osu! in itself is a lawsuit waiting to happen, as I'm sure everyone knows considering there's 320532853278 illegal files uploaded to osu! daily. osu! is safe from that though since staff plays dumb and pretends they don't know this happens so they can just dmca stuff when requested. Taking this into consideration I'd say it's really immoral to reference that as a reason to disallow commissioned beatmaps.
Nao Tomori
still dunno what this does since people getting commissions will just lie about it (or act like sotarks and meme about it obnoxiously while staff doesn't do anything as usual) and all of these punishments are ignoring the main issue of not being able to tell if a map is commissioned lol
Sakura Blossom
Nice post should be spread around more though~
Cubby
jus put it in
DeviousPanda
Yea something needs to be done about commissions
Kizusu
agreed
Seolv

newton- wrote:

agree of above average size
3 strikes seems like a good number btw, 5 is too lenient imo


my thoughts are the same, 3 would be good
as for the suggestion itself, it's a great idea, especially because lately commissions are becoming more and more popular within the community, doing something like this would be perfect

also ur cute
Frakturehawkens
Agree, but only ranked status. I
want to believe people pay for maps (it's their choice), not for leaderboards and effort of BN who can get nothing from it, not a single cent.
-Arche
I agree !!!
skylaa
fat agree
Uber
this seems silly lol
Loarca
Go for it
Dendy
Agree!
Beomsan
agreed
NeonLights
supported, this should have been done a while ago.
Lude
agreed
Muya
wtf?
Haruto
yes, agreed
Petit
agreed
Kujinn
Disagree
Left
Agree

But somebody pls explain monstrata's in 3 sentences
Coppertine

Left wrote:

Agree

But somebody pls explain monstrata's in 3 sentences

osu! is a grey area in terms of copyright. Most copyright companies won't even go for us since the money commissions make are at most 3-4 digit's with an average of $20-$50. also, osu!supporter should be looked over for promoting ilegal works.
abraker
For those who want a tl;dr for monstrata's stuff

Some initial copyright grey areas: How do you get permission for public domain, royalty-free, or stuff that have special conditions?

Some fine-tuning to the rule:
What do you need to be considered to have "permission"?

The problem with "Legal issues are bound to happen":
Profit on commissions are too small to attract a lawsuit

Thoughts on commissions and osu!legal:
Artists are loosing out on their fair share because of osu!supporter, so commissions are not any worse than osu!supporter.


My response to those:

Some initial copyright grey areas: This has to do less with commissions and more generally how you get permission for any content used when ranking any beatmap.

Some fine-tuning to the rule: How does anyone else get "permission" to use song and other content for any ranked beatmap?

The problem with "Legal issues are bound to happen": Fair point, and, uh, risk assessment.

Thoughts on commissions and osu!legal: When paying for osu!supporter you are not paying to be able to download maps. You can do that without supporter.
Topic Starter
Sparhten
Ill respond to strata and make adjustments in the next day or ao busy with work atm
Monstrata
@abraker

Two counter arguments to osu!supporter:

1. Payment for priority download. No longer an issue, I think you really have to try before you hit a cap without supporter. But it doesn't discredit the fact that caps used to exist for many years.

2. Supporter is what keeps the site running, so you are effectively paying to keep the site available.

Either way you look at it, the money goes directly or indirectly towards making + keeping pirated content available.
Big Bad Wolf
.
Topic Starter
Sparhten

J0rgen wrote:

What happens to already ranked/loved commissions?

Same as previous changes to the ranked section theyre left as is
Serizawa Haruki

Sparhten wrote:

Beatmapping should not be seen as something that you spend years learning to earn money from if you want something like that as a hobby you should choose another hobby.

Can you explain why not? Not taking into account the legal point of view (which is a different story), why can't people make money with something they like doing? To me this seems more like a personal opinion right now so I'd be interested to hear a reason.

Sparhten wrote:

they promote low quality mapping with low standards trying to meet the bare minimum to hit the ranked/loved sections

This is not necessarily true, just because you earn money from it doesn't mean that you put no effort in it and end up making a low quality map. A lot of mappers often make GDs but are demotivated to finish them because they get tired of the song or the rhythm/patterns become too repetitive but they are still able to make a good map. So if someone makes a commissioned map of a song they don't particularly like, the map is not automatically bad because of that. The commissioned maps I've seen weren't worse than other maps made by those mappers so this is definitely not an argument for banning commissions.
abraker

Monstrata wrote:

Either way you look at it, the money goes directly or indirectly towards making + keeping pirated content available.
DMCAs exist tho
Ephemeral
To start things off: I am firmly against beatmap commissions personally. I think they're ultimately toxic to the game and the normalization of their presence will signal a sharp decline in the health of the modding and mapping scenes as well as the artistic integrity of the game. osu! is built on a decade-old legacy of free and open artistic expression and anything that introduces the taint of money into that process is in my opinion, taking away from what has and will continue to make osu! unique.

With that out of the way, we should all remember that the Ranking Criteria exists to lay out a set of ground rules and expectations that fundamentally eliminates or diminishes the presence of game-breaking or profoundly unpleasant mapping techniques that make less fun to engage with. It does this in a manner as objectively as possible - by the elements in question being established and then judged by the community and experts on the matter. Techniques and mistakes outlined in the RC have been conclusively proven to diminish the gameplay experience.

While disallowing beatmap commissions via the RC is a tantalizing prospect, it in essence, goes against the core values of the criteria - that the issues it encompasses are judged to be objective flaws to mapping as a whole. Beatmap commissions are not objective flaws in that manner, they are a social issue, and should be judged in that perspective.

Unless of course, that one can argue conclusively with supporting evidence that beatmap commissions are objectively lowering or diminishing the quality of modern beatmapping. In which case, feel free to provide examples, and we can discuss those on the merits of each individual instance.

Otherwise, the declaration by the osu!team (something I personally refer to as 'the edict') many months ago paints this conundrum as a social and political issue - which really, it is. We are staunchly against money having any sort of influence in volunteer roles and the BN are no exception to this. It is the opinion of other members on the team that commissions are not fundamentally wrong, and perhaps even pose positive benefits to the game when undertaken properly in collaboration with artists and the appropriate blessings/permission that all entails.
A s h e m u

Nozhomi wrote:

It's kinda stupid to spend money on mapping in the first place.

Also agree with that.


its true :v
clayton
agree with ephemeral

slight tangent but talking about legal "issues" here kinda annoys me. you guys aren't working on behalf of the ppy company and this seems silly to speculate about from the outside. plus the scope would clearly be larger than the RC
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