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[Proposal] Move spinner guidelines to rules

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Serizawa Haruki
1,696 posts
Joined June 2015
Topic Starter
Serizawa Haruki
There have been recently ranked maps that break the minimum spinner recovery time guidelines in low diffs for no apparent reason and this affects the playability of these maps negatively because beginner players have to react faster after a spinner which can cause a lot of discomfort.

Some examples I can think of (take the BPM into account):
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/969578#osu/2164127
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1027708#osu/2165192
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/772055#osu/1761322
https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1028148#osu/2166215
There are also several others which I don't remember right now

Nobody pointed this issue out in the modding pages of these maps (except for the third example but it got still ranked and it has the same problem in the Advanced diff) which is quite concerning because I think this is a guideline that shouldn't be broken without a valid reason, but apparently guidelines are considered less important than rules and that it doesn't matter if you break them. Moving the following guidelines to the rules would hopefully prevent maps from getting ranked with insufficient spinner recovery time.
I would also like to add an exception for multiple consecutive spinners because those don't require time to prepare as you just continue spinning and it's already acceptable to ignore the guideline in that case.

Easy diff rule wrote:

Spinner recovery time must be at least 4 beats unless the next object is a spinner. This is to ensure adequate time to click a hit object following a spinner.

Normal diff rule wrote:

Spinner recovery time must be at least 2 beats unless the next object is a spinner. This is to ensure adequate time to click a hit object following a spinner.

Hard diff rule wrote:

Spinner recovery time must be at least 1 beat unless the next object is a spinner. This is to ensure adequate time to click a hit object following a spinner.


Additionally, I also think that the guidelines regarding spinner duration should be moved to the rules as well because it is equally important to spinner recovery time in terms of playability since spinning can be difficult for new players, especially if they have very little time to react.

Easy diff rule wrote:

Spinners must not be shorter than 4 beats. Players need time to recognize that they have to begin spinning.

Normal diff rule wrote:

Spinners must not be shorter than 3 beats. Players need time to recognize that they have to begin spinning.

Hard diff rule wrote:

Spinners must not be shorter than 2 beats. Players need time to recognize that they have to begin spinning.
Last edited by Serizawa Haruki , edited 8 times in total.
UndeadCapulet
1,100 posts
Joined April 2013
UndeadCapulet
pretty sure those maps getting ranked has nothing to do with the interpretation of the guidelines as "just guidelines, not rules", cuz we've done our damnedest to hammer in that lowdiff guidelines are basically rules anyway except giving leeway for bpm's. those getting ranked is more just bn's/qah's not doing their jobs properly. so i'd say report the bn's that nominated those to the nat and bring more awareness to this in similar manners, like reporting the maps while in qualified and stuff.

(and honestly i kinda think some of those example sets are following the guideline anyway cuz of their bpm ^^')
Serizawa Haruki
1,696 posts
Joined June 2015
Topic Starter
Serizawa Haruki
You're right about this being on the BNs/QAH but I won't report anyone, mistakes happen xd
Anyway, even if you tried to hammer in the importance of low diff guidelines, I honestly still see a lot of mappers/modders and even BNs say "it's just a guideline" or "who cares about low diffs" so I feel like these guidelines are still not taken seriously by everyone. It also happens with other guidelines that are perhaps less important. I don't really see a reason not to move this to the rules, the thing about BPM scaling should be taken into account even for rules (such as perfect 1/1 stacks in Normals being rankable at 90 BPM).
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
as uc said, the guidelines are serving their purpose. if people are choosing not to follow them, that's the fault of the users (who should be dealt with accordingly), and not the placement in rules/guidelines.

UndeadCapulet wrote:

(and honestly i kinda think some of those example sets are following the guideline anyway cuz of their bpm ^^')


if people are interpreting situations differnetly like this, being a rule doesn't work very well either :( rules are usually a lot more black/white, while guidelines have room for interpretation (interpretation in most cases for diffspecific guidelines being bpm related)
Serizawa Haruki
1,696 posts
Joined June 2015
Topic Starter
Serizawa Haruki
I understand your and UC's point, but maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to make these guidelines more black and white by moving them to the rules, that way there wouldn't be room for interpretation anymore. What I mean is that because these are "only" guidelines, people are more likely to break them, for example if a song is 150 BPM they are more likely to only use 1.5 beats of spinner recovery time in a Normal and the BNs are more likely not to point it out. However, because these guidelines are important, it would be good to enforce them in the same way as the perfect stacks rule. Perfect 1/1 stacks at 150 or even 120 BPM are still unrankable
in Normals despite being slower than the average BPM, and applying the same logic to spinners would be beneficial in my eyes.
Last edited by Serizawa Haruki , edited 2 times in total.
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
i think people may just treat these less strictly than stacks, which is why it was the one thing put into rules. like 1.5 beats at 140BPM is probably more okay to do than 1/1 stacks at 140BPM (on normals)

if anything, it's weirder that the stack thing is in rules and not that these spinner things are in guidelines
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