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[proposal][taiko] limit 1/6th usage in onis

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Topic Starter
tatatat
My proposal is to add the folowing to the oni guidelines.

1/6 patterns should not be longer than four notes. Anything longer is very situational and normally too complex. Patterns like this should be followed by a rest moment.



Here are my reasons why:
  1. There is no current rules or guidelines about 1/6th patterns in onis, its rather ambiguous how long a 1/6th pattern can be. Can it be up to 9 notes like a 1/4th pattern, or 2 like a 1/8th? 9 Would definitely be too long
  2. Currently, oni maps that are getting ranked with 1/6th patterns feel too hard for onis. They mix complex 1/4 and 1/6th patterns that would be much more suited for an inner oni.
  3. Complex 1/6th patterns break the difficulty progression from kantan to inner oni. Kantans introduce 1/1 patterns, futsuus introduce occasional 1/2th patterns, muzukashiis introduce simple 1/4th patterns, and then onis introduce complex 1/4th and 1/6th patterns and 1/8th doublets? That just doesn't seem right, there is obviously a disconnect between muzukashiis and onis.
  4. In maps that have onis as their lowest difficulty (maps that are at least 4:15 in length but not longer than 5:00) complex 1/4th and 1/6th patterns are just too hard even for players at the oni level.



There could be a more lax alternative if people think the proposed guideline is too tough:

1/6 patterns should not be longer than eight notes. Anything longer is very situational and normally too complex. Patterns like this should be followed by a rest moment.

1/6th patterns longer than 4 notes should consist of one colour change at most which should take place at the start or the end of the pattern. Patterns more complex than that would too demanding because the target audience of this difficulty level is not used to patterns of this complexity.


but I think the first proposal is better.
beaw
Agreed. I really need 1/6 in some Onis.
Red Riding Hood
yup
Skull Kid
yes
Cynplytholowazy
I would personally tend to only having

1/6 patterns should not be longer than four notes. Anything longer is very situational and normally too complex. Patterns like this should be followed by a rest moment.


Otherwise spread could be a huge issue if more than 4 is added.
Topic Starter
tatatat
yeah I agree, thats my main proposal. The other two are just alternatives if the discussions leads to my original proposal being too strict (which it doesn't seem to be)
DeletedUser_6637817
I dont think 1/6 patterns are too much of an issue to limit its usage in the RC, and is likely already covered by common sense in the modding scene.

Considering Onis can go as far as featuring this 1/4 pattern at 180 while being at the boundary of Guidelines: "ddkdkkd kkdkddk kkddkkk kkddkdd": This is as hard as Onis can go and it is probably abundantly obvious to modders and also BNs that 1/6 7lets will be strictly worse in respect to aforementioned 1/4 patternage.

Ive also never seen any abuse of long 1/6 in Oni difficulties in a long long time, so i dont think it is significant enough to be added.
Raiden
I don't really know where you've found long 1/6 patterns in literally any Oni that has been ranked in the past two years since you provided no examples.

Also, using a hard number that is already present in Muzukashii (1/6 limiting but not prohibiting) would result in a plateau in the transition to inner oni, making the jump even more frustrating.

Unnecessary.
Faputa
Current 1/4 ruler already sets a density restriction for difficulty spikes in Oni. I don't see any necessity for regulating it via the RC as well.

tatatat wrote:

There is no current rules or guidelines about 1/6th patterns in onis, its rather ambiguous how long a 1/6th pattern can be. Can it be up to 9 notes like a 1/4th pattern, or 2 like a 1/8th? 9 Would definitely be too long


Modders and Beatmap Nominators are responsible for checking them with relation to the 1/4 ruler like I said above. I doubt 1/6 nonuplets will ever be concerned if we are supposed to not use any 1/4 patterns longer than 9 notes.


tatatat wrote:

Currently, oni maps that are getting ranked with 1/6th patterns feel too hard for onis. They mix complex 1/4 and 1/6th patterns that would be much more suited for an inner oni.
...
In maps that have onis as their lowest difficulty (maps that are at least 4:15 in length but not longer than 5:00) complex 1/4th and 1/6th patterns are just too hard even for players at the oni level.


These arguments are rather weak as to back up your proposal because in the current Oni structure, you can get very hard with patterns like multicolour 1/4 nonuplets and still fit into the oni level. As such any 1/4 + 1/6 patterns that fit within the Oni is still regarded as Oni and whether it is acceptable or not spread and rationale determine so.


tatatat wrote:

Complex 1/6th patterns break the difficulty progression from kantan to inner oni. Kantans introduce 1/1 patterns, futsuus introduce occasional 1/2th patterns, muzukashiis introduce simple 1/4th patterns, and then onis introduce complex 1/4th and 1/6th patterns and 1/8th doublets? That just doesn't seem right, there is obviously a disconnect between muzukashiis and onis.


Spread is coped with very precisely for Kantan to Oni so I don't think they will ever induce problems themselves aside from the error of Beatmap Nominators' side.

Lax alternative is unnecessary as well.
pishifat
seems like this change isn't necessary, as maps aren't pushed to rank that have the proposed issue, nor is it hard to interpret how many objects can be used at this snap based on similar guidelines. closing
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