Well, as you know, TAG4 maps became ranked in 2009-2010 and then they were prohibited to rank as they are too difficult for players (even for Cookiezi, val0108 and other asians which don't think that that maps were made only for 2 or 4 people). So, we can make them rankable again with some rules which won't let them OMGFREAKING impossible to do.

1. Comboes.
Beatmap must be divided by 2 or 4 combo colours (for TAG2 and TAG4 resp.). If distance by element is more than 2,50x, you need to make a new combo. Beatmaps with wrong combo system won't get ranked if they are even perfectly made.
2. Sliders.
As you know, this map has very rapid sliders which almost nobody can pass without missing. More problem is for CTB players: as they have droplets which can't turn to hyperdash, they are TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE to pass. So, if TAG2-4 map is fcable by ctb player (I mean, passing sliders, some moments are too difficult (pixeljumps, for example) to pass without losing your combo), it is fcable for most of osu! players.
Sliders are passable when their coefficient (BPM x Slider Speed) is less than 400. For example, 190bpm map has 2,00 slider speed, its coefficient is 380 which is passable for all mods (some sliders with coefficient over 400 are passable for ctb players when they are not horizontal, so, if the angle between horizontal and slider is bigger but less/or 90, the slider has more chances to pass. This rule is in 90% for CTB players because osu! players can pass EVERY slider (it only depends with player's skills).
3. Distance.
Even if the map is for 2-4 people, don't forget that 99% of map players play solo and there mustn't be any jumps with distance more than 7,50-10,00x because it will be turned to hell even for 4 players. And, of course, there mustn't be "jump streams" like here or here.


If you think that this thread needs much more rules, write here and I'll add them if it passes to this :3

The reason tag maps are unrankable it's because maps are supposed to be meant to be played by a single player, not multiple of them, focusing on TAG which has no scoreboard nor counts towards score to begin with, defeats the purpose of it being ranked in the first place.

Never use glitches in 1 game mode to justify the rankability of a map in another game mode.

I remember when Derekku said that TAG maps are currently unrankable because they can't be modded properly because that kind of maps have the notes randomly placed.

Also, Agree with Sakura.

Right now, there is no hope of winning this battle. None. Not gonna happen. Many before you have tried, and all have failed. This thread's just another corpse in the pile.

Don't let go of your hope just yet, though. peppy's apparently got plans for changing/replacing the approval category. While he's kept quiet on when it'll happen, it does seem like he's listening and the day might just come when maps like this are allowed again.

Sakura wrote:

focusing on TAG which has no scoreboard nor counts towards score to begin with, defeats the purpose of it being ranked in the first place.

To you and to others who say the same: please stop citing scoreboards as the primary reason to get a map approved. What people want is an audience for the map they put their time and effort into making, and a community that fosters such alternative approaches to mapping.

Mercurial wrote:

I remember when Derekku said that TAG maps are currently unrankable because they can't be modded properly because that kind of maps have the notes randomly placed.

Of course you can mod these maps. Modding's more than just glancing back and forth between the map and a checklist and nodding your head occasionally. It's about making a map better and more fun, and that can always be done no matter what bizarre goal the mapper has in mind.

I guess the meaning of the word "proper" there could be a thing though.

I really doubt it's going to happen, at least not with a ranked score list anyways.

When I think of what would need to be that would make this possible, I think of an option that's selectable in the editor, that indicates it's a tag difficulty. And when a map is ranked the parameter would just include it in the mapset, but appear as an unranked difficulty. It could even have it's own special tag indicator for it. The question is if it's worth all of the trouble of integrating tag diffs in this way.

Discuss.

ctb is boring without TAG maps

VelperK wrote:

ctb is boring without TAG maps

^this

You should read this.

Noone is forcing you from playing unranked tag difficulties in any gamemode you want. The problem is you're only thinking about how they play in the special gamemodes, but not how badly they play in osu standard. You just can't have a ranked list for one gamemode without having a ranked list for all the gamemodes.

Also, basically only 3-5 players are even able to play decently well at these types of maps on standard, and one of them doesn't play anymore.

If I strip away your argument to your main point, you want TAG difficulties to be rankable for their single player possibilities instead of their multiplayer possibilities. You'll need a more valid argument than that. If you can give a good reason why TAG maps should be allowed on a multiplayer perspective, then your point of view has a fighting chance.

If you want my opinion, TAG4's play terrible as TAG maps to begin with. Here's what a TAG map is like to play. Take any song and them remove 3/4th of the notes, and try to find the rhythm with the notes left on the screen. Is it fun randomly clicking? Not really. Regular difficulties on tag are more fun to play because the combos are actually divided into sensible rhythm patterns. All difficulties need rhythm to be rankable on osu, and TAG difficulties creators often miss the point and their maps don't carry any rhythm. So in my opinion, TAG difficulties are more pointless than they are fun, because they lack rhythm in a rhythm game.

Even if people learn how to make one properly, TAG difficulties still have a fatal flaw IMO. Because the notes are often randomly placed all over the screen, you really have no idea where your next part is going to come up. And there is really no point in practicing these difficulties. I think TAG makers need to up the quality of their difficulties by a lot in order to convince me (and the staff) that this pointless maptype is worth fighting for and that time should be spent supporting it. Do you really want TAG map support?

If you do, then I highly recommend you start a grassroots movement and create a list of rules/guidelines of things that mappers need to keep in mind in order to make a good TAG difficulty and have examples of a good, and playable tag difficulty. If you want a ranked list for it sometime in the future then you'll need to go a step further and show that it's FCable by more than 3-5 players in the game.

The argument "maps are made to be played by one person" doesn't work here.
The only problem is modder who can decently mod them, since the difficulty, and check if it's consistent, but you can just call your TAG2 diff Extra/Lunatic and make it for approved.

VelperK wrote:

ctb is boring without TAG maps

you're the only one who like these maps \o/

Ranked mapsets are made for singleplayer. Unless we add a mod/gamemode for TAG maps they will never get ranked.

Mithost wrote:

Ranked mapsets are made for singleplayer. Unless we add a mod/gamemode for TAG maps they will never get ranked.

just call a TAG2 with other names, and it's rankable.
plus, they should obviously be "Approved" and not "Ranked" since they are like gimmicks

move approved to ranked
make tag maps approved

ziin wrote:

move approved to ranked
make tag maps approved

yes, please, this... keep Approved, but make it only for gimmicky maps (TAG maps, Disturbia, NB Rangers, Fake It, etc.)

Would marathon maps be called a gimmick? If not, should they get their own section? There are completely legit reasons for 5+ minute maps to be considered unrankable, but if Approved is changed just for gimmicks, would a marathon section be warranted?

If we make gimmick maps approved PLEASE don't let the Fun Spoiler work there, because gimmick maps are mostly just SBs.

Approval category is being phased out to a different type of category only for marathon maps. Also TAG maps were approved before, so this argument is invalid. Adding gimmicky maps to approved will not work, not only for the above reasons, but because approval maps still need to follow the rules of ranked maps with few exceptions. Gimmick maps are gimmicky because they break rules. Anything that counts officially towards any meaningful stat would invalidate the inclusion of these maps.

It's safe to say it's not going to happen if marathons are going to be in the same category as these types of maps.

We should just make a thread called "Cool Gimmick Maps" and put all of the cool maps that you guys want approved in there. We could even have sections for TAG maps, impossible maps that look cool, and storyboard gimmicks.

Mithost wrote:

We should just make a thread called "Cool Gimmick Maps" and put all of the cool maps that you guys want approved in there. We could even have sections for TAG maps, impossible maps that look cool, and storyboard gimmicks.

+1 to this^^

And the best maps will be approved if they are not too much impossible :3

There was this one thread "maps that are to weird to be ranked" but I cannot find it.

And yes, a "Cool Gimmick Maps"-section would be really cool.

I didn't ask for a section, I asked for a thread.

TheVileOne wrote:

Approval category is being phased out to a different type of category only for marathon maps.

Source on this information? I'm not around to see every post made on the issue but to my knowledge we don't know anything of the "new approval section" other than that it's coming at all.

TheVileOne wrote:

Adding gimmicky maps to approved will not work, not only for the above reasons, but because approval maps still need to follow the rules of ranked maps with few exceptions. Gimmick maps are gimmicky because they break rules.

All on the assumption that the new approved will have the same rules as the current approved. And even as stupid as it would be to change the section but keep the rules the same, yeah, it could very well turn out that way. I don't have the highest of hopes for any real progress here... it's why I've largely stopped posting in this rules discussion board at all.

TheVileOne wrote:

Anything that counts officially towards any meaningful stat would invalidate the inclusion of these maps.

That one's easy. Just make the new section affect no stats whatsoever. Keep it strictly for fun.

TheVileOne wrote:

It's safe to say it's not going to happen if marathons are going to be in the same category as these types of maps.

And this goes back to the first point... we don't actually know that, do we?

Mithost wrote:

I didn't ask for a section, I asked for a thread.

A section would give so much more visibility to these maps, though. Who even ever checks the Beatmap Projects board, much less that particular thread? The average player probably doesn't even visit the forum.

--

TAG2/4 maps aren't everyone's cup of tea. Hell, I don't like them much either. But their existence in a separate and walled-off yet visible category does me and everyone else no harm, and serves only to help such maps find their fans. And as a huge fan of most other types of gimmick maps, I wouldn't feel right not defending TAG maps.

I would really like to see a fleshed-out argument against this plan... it's always bugged me that the transition from these maps being allowed to forbidden was silent... if there was an announcement, I managed to miss it entirely. Didn't know until I went to suggest Fear Factory for approval and apparently it wasn't allowed anymore. But what about DisturDO NOT USE OLD MAPS AS JUSTIFICATION. Any explanation I've seen has been roughly along the lines of "it just isn't" or "because I said so".

Let's just wait for peppy's big update. I'm actually expecting a new system that will make tag maps rankable only when played in a tag coop version.