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Topic Starter
quila
[deleted as part of purging my old post history]
Saileach
i dont feel that changing the unsnap rule would be best for polyrhythms but rather have support for them in the first place, so an adjustment to the timing section of the editor would work best. lazer tm. soon tm
Nao Tomori
well lazer isnt happening for another few years so might as well go ahead with this now tbh
Topic Starter
quila
[deleted as part of purging my old post history]
Myxo
i fully agree with this proposal
jeanbernard8865
going by the proposed definition of snapped, any object on the timeline would be snapped, making the rule lose its purpose. What defines an unsnapped object then ? The only unrankable case would be objects literally out of the timeline ?

Even if this were clarified, the current rule about unsnapped objects is there because unsnapped objects can produce unexpected behaviour, such as snapping on ticks when the timing is changed, or randomly because y'know, editor code. Really, I don't see what's wrong with the current method of accomodating for the editor's limitations with an unherited timing point. If anything, I can only see disadvantages in the proposal.
Topic Starter
quila
[deleted as part of purging my old post history]
Topic Starter
quila
[deleted as part of purging my old post history]
jeanbernard8865

4n3c wrote:

bpm affects multiple things, some are more important than others: slider velocity (can be fixed in most cases), slider tick rate, nightcore pulses, displayed bpm in song selction, millesecond timing shift errors (can also be fixed), and possibly more i'm not remembering.
as you said yourself, most issues mentioned are fixable. displayed bpm is not an issue unless in extreme cases such as variable timing maps, and nightcore being a mod shouldn't be taken in account for the same reason that we don't disqualify for offscreen objects in easy mode. if the player wants to add a modification, then it's on them, not on the mapper.

However, you are right that it affects slider ticks in a way that can potentially be unwanted. As long as it is still possible to use a redline, i don't have anymore objection to this proposal.
Topic Starter
quila
[deleted as part of purging my old post history]
Topic Starter
quila
[deleted as part of purging my old post history]
pishifat
redefining snapping like that isn't going to happen because snapping has an inherent definition (the "snap" effect an object has when it's attached to a timeline tick). other programs use it to mean similar things in context

for the other changes, i think it may be better to add a clear exception to a rule allowing these weird time signatures (since that's what the goal is here?). with the way you're suggesting, there's room for people to place objects in weird timeline positions because they have inaccurate timing, which shouldn't be allowed and isn't reasonable to regulate

Objects must be snapped to timeline ticks. If objects cannot be snapped using the editor’s supported beat snap divisors, a change in BPM may be used to accommodate for it. If a section of music requires an unsupported time signature not included in this chart however (1/5, 1/7, etc.), a map's objects can be unsnapped so long as they align with the intended time signature.
Vacuous
Objects must be snapped to timeline ticks. If objects cannot be snapped using the editor’s supported beat snap divisors, a change in BPM may be used to accommodate for it. If a section of music requires an unsupported time signature not included in this chart however (1/5, 1/7, etc.), a map's objects can be unsnapped so long as they align with the intended time signature.
Seems really reasonable to me, it's a lot better than the current rule because for songs that change between divisors extensively (Handmade Cities has changes from 1/4 to 1/6 to 1/5 in single beats) due to sv and it's just tedious to deal with all the BPM changes and math.
Topic Starter
quila
[deleted as part of purging my old post history]
Topic Starter
quila
[deleted as part of purging my old post history]
pishifat

pishifat wrote:

with the way you're suggesting, there's room for people to place objects in weird timeline positions because they have inaccurate timing, which shouldn't be allowed and isn't reasonable to regulate


this is why the reason to break the rule shouldn't be left up in the air. if a note is musically unsnapped to the point of being noticeably off and affects gameplay, a timing point should be used. if a note is off by a barely noticeable amount, an approximation likely works and would be more playable.

4n3c wrote:

fundamentally the goal is to allow mappers to not change bpm cause bpm effects a bunch of stuff, time sig included

4n3c wrote:

for example, an object offset 10ms from the first blue tick at 180 bpm could be said to be snapped to the 7th 1/25 tick of an unsupported snap divisor.


if this means the goal of the proposal is to avoid timing changes when a song misaligns with the metronome, i don't think it'll be passable. too many songs have notes that can sound kinda correct a few milliseconds off of a tick, so giving people permission to unsnap things in whatever way they feel fits could easily lead to unpredictable gameplay that, under current standards, is playable because of timeline tick approximation (not including situations that are incorrect enough to deserve timing changes obviously).

inconsistency between mapper preferences/maps of the same song/difficulties within a set are much harder to regulate with free unsnapping too, especially without timestamps for unsnaps clearly visible. given how i wrote the proposed rule, there's a way to figure out the "intended" time sig beat snap divisor: bpm multiples, like the op's dsco map. this makes it reasonably regulatable

that said, i still think the previous suggestion + rewording to fix my time sig retardation works best:

Objects must be snapped to timeline ticks. If objects cannot be snapped using the editor’s supported beat snap divisors, a change in BPM may be used to accommodate for it. If a section of music requires an unsupported beat snap divisor however (1/5, 1/7, etc.), a map's objects can be unsnapped so long as they align with the intended beat snap divisor.
Topic Starter
quila
[deleted as part of purging my old post history]
pishifat
oh i thoguht you were trying to say the opposite with that quote lol. i think we're on the same page then
pishifat
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