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Kudosu v2

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +78
Topic Starter
squirrelpascals
The kudosu system is very much outdated and many can agree, so I rewrote how the system can work.

The Problem

For many years, mappers have agreed that currently, kudosu are pretty much useless and mean nothing. The current kudosu system in place is outdated, and with the combination or modding v1 and v2 in place, the amount of kudosu a modder has if very misleading. The current system quantifies how many mods a use wrote, rather then actually tracking the quality of each mod. Especially because with v1 mods, you can only obtain 1 kudosu per map, while you can obtain many with v2 mods.

After being inspired by the responses regarding the current system in place by this tweet by Gabe I decided to rethink how kudosu can be modernized to help in today’s modding scene.

Kudosu v2

My idea is to basically remeasure kudosu obtained as a ratio, defined by:

Kudosu obtained from the mapper / 1


Only upvotes from the mapper are count for a kudosu because they ultimately determine if the mod was helpful (everybody can still upvote a post though). BNs and QAT reserve the right to give/deny kudosu where needed (similar to the old system). The raito can be displayed as a value in between 0 and 1 on the users page, with 1.00 being perfect (mappers awarded kd to every mod) or 0 (no kd on any mod). To allow this number to fluctuate, the ratio will track the last 500 individual mods written by the user.

Ex: 430 / 500 kudosu obtained per last 500 mods by the mapper = Kudosu ratio = 0.86

Other community members should still be able to upvote mods written by users if they are agreeable or significantly important to the map. To give these significant mods more attention, we can integrate the ability to sort by upvotes earned in modding v2, so that way these posts gets more traction from other modders and attention in the ranking process. Maybe we can even think of a way to reward such posts.

Tracking kudosu in such a way could also aid in applications to the bng, and possibly the Kudosu Police (see next paragraph).

Downfalls and Solutions

One current problem with v2 however is that it is abusable in the way you can technically be awarded an infinite of kudosu per map. To solve this, we can allow only 5 kudosu per user to be obtained for every 30 seconds of drain time. This would also encourage mappers to mod 10+ minute maps and such. Additionally, to prevent collusion between mappers and modders, we can have the QAH review mods through ranked map threads to check for any possible abuse.

Ex: If a KP member spots shortcoming mods (one word mods, inelaborate suggestions, etc.) that were mindlessly upvoted by a mapper, the kudosu for those mods can be nullified.

Also, this system also relies on mappers rightfully awarding kudosu to a mod that were helpful, and not if they were unhelpful, so mappers would need to obtain the mindset to upvote all helpful mods, whether they are applied to the map or not, and not to upvote simpler mods. This can possibly be solved by promoting some sort of guide of how to use Kudosu v2 if the system is actually implemented.

Leaderboards

This is another thing that will be affected by the change, and I think it would be rewarding to keep the current leaderboards right now to give modders something to strive, encouraging modding activity. However, a new leaderboard should also be put in place to also track users with the highest modding ratio , obviously. So we would have a Kudosu v1 and Kudosu v2 leaderboard. This leaderboard will also be more dynamic because of the ratio’s ability to decrease in value.



That’s pretty much the jist of it :)

TL;DR: Track kudosu as a ratio of kd awarded from the mapper but still promote upvotes from other users. Can be used to signify quality of one’s mods rather than quantity. Get a more active team going to enforce rightful kd awards.
Nao Tomori
i think instead of this kudosu police crap there should just be a cap on how much kds you can get from any one map hard coded in. so good mods get 5 or whatever average ones get 3 and bad ones get 1 or 0...
Topic Starter
squirrelpascals

Nao Tomori wrote:

i think instead of this kudosu police crap there should just be a cap on how much kds you can get from any one map hard coded in. so good mods get 5 or whatever average ones get 3 and bad ones get 1 or 0...

Yeah, the whole police thing hasnt been received well so i removed it.

I like the idea of rewarding additional kd for very helpful mods. Maybe the modder gets 1 kudosu for an upvote from the mapper, and 2 kudosu for 3 upvotes including the mapper, and so on?
celerih
The ratio idea does more harm than good imo.

I already see so very often newer modders being afraid to m4m because they don't think they're good enough to mod. Adding this ratio thing would just make this problem even worse, and create a difficult skill wall for newer modders who are afraid of getting a bad ratio visible to everyone on their profile. Don't want to get a bad ratio so they don't mod and never improve

Also it creates an insentive for modders to go for safe suggestions, rather than trying to dig deeper in the map and learn to analyze it more.
Naxess
Basically what celerih said, implementing a ratio would inevitably lead to people seeking a better "score" because it's what they'd be judged by from other users, regardless of what that ratio actually means, purely by it being promoted. Right now you lose nothing from modding, even if everything is denied, whereas with this people would be afraid to have their suggestions be denied. It'd be kind of similar to the accuracy in the game, how many notes you hit out of the total, where it says nothing about how difficult those notes were to hit or how many there were.

Another important factor to consider is that not all good suggestions are accepted, and not all bad suggestions are denied. Despite having the most perfect mod anyone could possibly make (by some perspective), it's always up to the mapper in the end which direction they want to push the map, and the mapper may not always do what is considered "better" by the majority. Because of that it'd be impossible to deduce anything significant from a ratio like this, since it's largely dependent on other factors, and not just how good you are at modding.

I can see where the incentive to have a score-like system for mods comes from, but from everything I've seen so far with the way we've tried scoring bn activity, it always either ends up with quantity over quality or with some other unintentional factors making a mess of everything. At this point I don't even know if scoring mods is viable at all. The current approach is more of a pp v1 equivalent, where the more you've modded for the higher the number goes, and it's generally sufficient for quantitative activity measurements, but not much else.
TheKingHenry

Nao Tomori wrote:

i think instead of this kudosu police crap there should just be a cap on how much kds you can get from any one map hard coded in. so good mods get 5 or whatever average ones get 3 and bad ones get 1 or 0...
Unless you got some solid way of discerning what is good or average or whatever mod but it's just capping the amount of possible kudosu from a map it'd just get worse. You'd still get awarded the same amount whether you give 5 amazing suggestions or 5 half useless suggestions. Hell, you'd still get the same amount even if you gave like dozen really good points as it'd hit the maximum. Doesn't seem like a good idea, would just "reward" stopping the mod halfway through when you hit the cap lol

Not like things were much different with mv1 either anyways, you could get same amount of kudosu from huge effort wall of text or couple lines of questionable importance. If things went wrong the shortie would get double amount. Atleast nowadays you get rewarded from giving larger amount of valid suggestions. Well, that doesn't really remove the question about quality as always ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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