so with that out-a the way half a month ago, I'll have to say the following about these new changes to how Beatmap Vetoing works. The main points i'll make can be summed up as follows:JBHyperion wrote:
Hello!QAT Branch Review
Disqualifications: osu!standard has fallen behind slightly due to pressures of exam season on its members, hope to renew motivation and add new members before the next cycle of probation BNs for osu! are added. osu!taiko, osu!catch and osu!mania struggled initially with new BN influx in March, but have since stabilised. DQs as a whole working as intended. Branch responsibilities now include veto mediation as set out in the new wiki article on Beatmap Vetoing.
- The QAT is a blackbox for anyone on the outside in this regard, you throw a complaint in about a veto and maybe post on a thread, they then take this, do whatever with it and throw a verdict at you within 48h - or don't - in any case you dont know why what is reached
- Depending on how available or unavailable (or possibly annoying) your veto gets or doesnt get processed
- The cases in which a veto is rendered void is not described: what happens if you veto and do not attempt having a reasonable debate? If you just veto to stall beatmaps placing a veto and not attempting debate is your best bet to at least stall things and you can easily claim you got hit by <schoolwork/your job/your dying grandma> and probably get off the hook
- Forcing a decision within 48h seems unjust provided that people that are rushed to vote will just vote something.
- This change was implemented because undoing a veto was too hard, arguably - undoing a veto with all the mediation stuff is not only more complicated, it's also harder for the side disagreeing, because they can end up going against the entirety of the QAT for a mode
- If the QAT agrees with a veto and you don't you can basically quit the map even if you and all 90% of the BNG think that it's okay without getting into compromises you disagree with.
- This system discourages people from thinking for themselves and arguing for any other reason than to be as loud as possible - you dont know which of your points, if any, are considered to begin with and you have to ask the QAT to do the thinking for you anyways.
The mediation itself not being public domain is a key factor why I think this cannot work properly - it relies on people to just blindly trust that the QAT isn't preoccupied with other things and go ahead requesting resolving a veto anyways. In worst case if you are in disagreement with the QAT and they rule to uphold a veto there's not a thing you can do really (at least according to the current wording) until appropriate (judged by the QAT?) changes are made the the beatmap
I have no idea if this was what it intended to solve but I have reason to believe that this system isn't actually making things better.
I'd propose:
- Get rid of the blackbox surrounding all of this
- Provide a means to refute vetos if you disagree with the mediation
- If you want to make the whole process more simple, simplify more? I have no idea if mappers that have been veto'd even know that they have to ask for mediation
- While some instance having the final say on these matters is good, allow people to publicly surveil said instance to ensure that its processes are going fairly within
If you think this debate should be held at a different location, feel free to move this topic