On account of these maps:
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/39828
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/39600

Two maps that are approved when they easily could have been ranked. There is no reason for them to be approved and in case the max score on the umbreon one really would be a problem it could still be ranked in an rank/approval mapset like http://osu.ppy.sh/b/42152&m=0.

Is this some kind of MAT/BAT privilege or are moderators blind? I'd approve all of my insane difficulties if I could so I wouldn't have to map easy/normal/hard difficulties. Saves alot of time. So why are these maps approved?

because the mappers wanted them to be so

good enough for me

aren't you a fan of MAPPER FREEDOM anyway?

Freedom in mapping yes, but freedom in being lazy is just ... yeah XD
Rules also indicate that these maps should be ranked ~.~ so yeah.

Lesjuh wrote:

Is this some kind of MAT/BAT privilege or are moderators blind?

They pretend to be blind to give people they're well acquainted with special treatment.

There's sacrifices made when you do this, though.

For instance, you sacrifice anybody knowing your map exists for the ability to map approval difficulties.

Also, for most people, it's HARDER to get your map approved. Speaking from personal experience, every time I get a map approved, I literally have to ask EVERY SINGLE BAT on the BAT team before I could even get ONE bubble, and that was because I annoyed the balls out of him until he was like "OK FINE."

Although, I do agree that the definition of "ranking" and "approval" really needs to be re-defined. But I probably shouldn't be saying anything, as I'm Mr. "HEY GUYS YOU KNOW WHAT'S COOL? APPROVAL COLLABS WITH ONE DIFF"

CDFA wrote:

Also, for most people, it's HARDER to get your map approved.

For most people, they wouldn't be able to get those types of maps (listed by lesjuh) approved to begin with.

New Rules: 16-18m = Rare cases, for insane difficulties that are long and challenging enough to justify such a high score.
Old Rules: 12-20m = Same as above, and check difficulty is hard enough that score is not so attainable.

Junichi Masuda - Heavy Rain (LightUmbreon's Remix): 19,886,328 points
If we're going by the logic that the New Rules have not been totally set in place yet, then it's debatable as to whether or not this should have been approved.

Renard - GOT MY PONY SPAM FOR YOU: 17,903,410 points
However, for this map, either set of rules would suggest that this map should have had easier difficulties and instead gone for ranking. A similar happened with Floating Darkness, which gave 17,151,236 points and got approved. I don't agree with either of these maps being approved, so I would agree with Lesjuh on this one.

In my opinion, if you'd like to make a one difficulty approval mapset, it should probably give more than 20,000,000 points to satisfy both the old rules and new rules. If it's below 18,000,000 points, create a better spread and go for ranking. If it's between 18,000,000 and 20,000,000 points, that's a grey area and it would be nice to have it one way or the other. That's all.

GladiOol wrote:

Freedom in mapping yes, but freedom in being lazy is just ... yeah XD

had to double check the thread. I'd agree with Gladi here - not whether it should be ranked vs approved, but the whole laziness thing with the one difficulty mapset. Thought we decided we were better than that going forward.

As for BAT/MAT privileges, I don't think we actually have any of those with respect to mapping.

SapphireGhost wrote:

Renard - GOT MY PONY SPAM FOR YOU: 17,903,410 points
However, for this map, either set of rules would suggest that this map should have had easier difficulties and instead gone for ranking. A similar happened with Floating Darkness, which gave 17,151,236 points and got approved. I don't agree with either of these maps being approved, so I would agree with Lesjuh on this one.

I agree as well, i remember i told ztrot that the mapset could perfectly go for ranking and he said "It's impossible to map something easier for this map, if you think you can do it, go ahead if you want", i still disagree with such low scoring maps going for approval.

Lazyness is not Freedom.

The actual fact that in the two mapset he provided, he CAN map something easier

Shiirn wrote:

because the mappers wanted them to be so

good enough for me

aren't you a fan of MAPPER FREEDOM anyway?

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/33340

When you are good enough friends with BATs, you get special treatment

Gabi wrote:

When you are good enough friends with BATs, you get special treatment

not friendly with BATs =forever alone no ranked / approved map

sad to hear that fact~
i think BATs always have a good decisions to rank or app a map

add some issues...
BATs never look star difficult rate system for mapset now
ex : insane 4.8 - 5 , hard 4.0 - 4,6 < it must be like this
but...
some map have annoying difficult rate like , insane (4.7) and hard ( 4.9) <why ranked

idk why BAT not looked star diff rate system again, dont say "that map have a good quality to play and ranked blah blah blah~"

Metro wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/35023

I like how shinde didn't even have to request for mods and it gets approved.

Garven is probably like best friends forever with shinde.

Sakura Hana wrote:

I agree as well, i remember i told ztrot that the mapset could perfectly go for ranking and he said "It's impossible to map something easier for this map, if you think you can do it, go ahead if you want"

More like "It's impossible because I'm lazy". It's always possible to map at least one easier difficulty. If the mapper is too lazy, the map has to stay in WIP/Graveyard.

I think an approved diff in ranked mapsets is better anyway.

Metro wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/35023

Just saw it haha xD

or he really likes rolling girl.

Nharox wrote:

More like "It's impossible because I'm lazy". It's always possible to map at least one easier difficulty.

I've never met a song I couldn't squeeze three difficulties out of.

No, LuigiHann's map called "The Fire" or whatever it was does not count as a song.

meh

awp wrote:

No, LuigiHann's map called "The Fire" or whatever it was does not count as a song.

lololol

mochi wrote:

Metro wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/35023

I like how shinde didn't even have to request for mods and it gets approved.

Garven is probably like best friends forever with shinde.

Actually I got like 6 IRC mods that all said very little, and despite that I spent about an hour in editor for each of them trying to figure out what to improve. On top of that a handful of people told me in IRC that they liked my map, and a few more posted in the thread shortly after a semi-finished version was done. Considering free stars are now obsolete, I'm suprised those people even posted.

Besides, whenever I ask for mods people usually decline. (It's not like I used to mod a lot and never map, helping others before myself. Doing skin/video/timing work without kudosu. Spending all my KDs on other people's maps. Why should people mod my maps? Plus even in past ranked maps, the mods were usually rather empty and it'd only take til page 2 anyways, so it's not like I'm using up a lot of people's time.) I spent weeks trying to get people to mod it and even when they do they never really came up with anything. I spend a LOT of time myself doing rechecks and modding my own map so that others don't have to. I'm very thorough when it comes to style and rankability issues, because when I put something in Pending, I don't want any walls of text or issues. Now, if people are going to complain about score and approval versus ranked so much, I will keep it firmly in mind for future maps I make or look at. As I said before, there are already 3 full ranked mapsets for this song, you want another ENHI for a 3:30 song? Ok, I'll get right on that. Should only take me 8 months. I am a very slow mapper and I put a lot of time into my maps. Plus I don't sit on osu! all day mapping. You realize it took 4 months to get that approved right?

Also, yes Garven and I are good friends. He gave me constructive feedback through the entire process and recommended people who I could ask for mods, and sat on IRC with me talking about each others maps and life in general quite a few nights. Also we have similar tastes in music and enjoy each other's maps very much, mostly because we both date back to Shinxyn maps and were influenced by them. I've also modded his maps in the past, and he's modded mine. Problem? I'm sure you have friends. .. Right?

If it makes you feel better, I don't even know osuplayer111 personally and he had no complaints. He was like the 10th BAT (not even mentioning MATs I talked to) I asked for a mod over the course of the week and I just assumed he'd be too busy also. ztrot's only complaint was 'Well it's not 18m so I hope no one bitches.' and lo and behold. I'll just quote this too.

Shinde wrote:

Oh, I'll just turn HP Drain and OD back up one so that "No difficulty is allowed to exceed a score of 18 mill" applies then. I thought I'd be nice and lower them one for user accessibility, but if I have to use "logic" and the rules for approval rather than use common sense...

I think some of you should re-evaluate your thinking. If the only argument against a map is 'Why is this approved and not ranked? It's only 17m!', then I think I've either done a decent job mapping or you're just too caught up in things. You should probably go read Lyby's linked thread. Also, lesjuh/Gladi wasn't Tijdmachine ranked with 3 Insanes and a 'Normal' Easy difficulty? Pretty sure that's also against some 'rule' stashed away somewhere. While you guys argue over trivialities, I'll be busy doing things I consider fun.

But man, some of you guys are depressing. I thought we were moving away from nazi and restrictive modding? I feel like I'm back in late 2009. I could point out a lot other fallacies and inconsistencies several people in this thread have, (Especially a few key people ) but I'll try to refrain from personal attacks and making people look like dumbasses. I don't get paid enough to do that, and that's stupid. I should've just kept the original settings so I could go, "HERP DERP 19.5M APPROVAL THX"

This is a game (and a community), people play games to have fun, not deal with silly bullshit. Are you having fun?

PS. Have a nice day, I will be off enjoying the holidays.

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/7828
hello

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/7828
hello

length

Orly






Take a look at this

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/11471

well that made my day :3

Bass-chan wrote:

Orly






Take a look at this

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/11471

4:02 draining time

it's ranked so there's no problem?

>2010
new drain time was accepted by peppy in 2011, which means it's already being enforced.
In either case we will discuss internally about the future of approved maps.

Sakura Hana wrote:

In either case we will discuss internally about the future of approved maps.

May I ask why?

Because of viewtopic.php?p=1109973#p1109973

Why not just remove approval all together and make everything go for ranking.
I have a feeling this will get no where anyway :I

Zelos wrote:

Why not just remove approval all together and make everything go for ranking.
I have a feeling this will get no where anyway :I

That's exactly what would fix this issue once and for all, in that same thread iirc peppy was thinking of merging the approved maps into ranked or something.

Shinde wrote:

sob story

The point I'm trying to make is that maps like yours will only attract more people to create short approval maps. The purpose of the approval section has always been for marathons/high score maps/gimmicky maps and your map doesn't belong in that category. You can tell us all about how you need almost a year to create a normal mapset for a 3 minute song :/ Ofcourse I think freedom and fun is important but what's the purpose of the approval category now? Something needs to change. Until then I'll be making 3 minute single diff maps (meh jk lol)

Let's just get rid of the whole approved section, solves this problem too \:D/

No need to repeat it, as peppy said in that thread that was his intention, i just hope it could happen sooner rather than later

I repeat it because I'm stating my opinion.

Stop deleting my posts.

Neruell wrote:

Zelos wrote:

Why not just remove approval all together and make everything go for ranking.

Stop posting for the sake of increasing your post count then

I won't stop posting because of your stupid thinking.

Lesjuh wrote:

herp derp nice summary

You sure missed a lot of points that I don't feel like reiterating. Also your+Gladi's map doesn't belong in ranked when going by the rules. Good job. Don't try to argue common sense either. Rules are pretty serious business and definitely black and white.

I agree, let's get rid of approval. \:D/

Shinde wrote:

Also your+Gladi's map doesn't belong in ranked when going by the rules. Good job. Don't try to argue common sense either.

Except this is the reason he's trying to convince the BATs to merge Ranking and Approval?

Well I do wish that good luck, since that's going to take a lot of effort. Having a large group of people agree on a middle ground when it comes to sticky issues has never gone smoothly in the past. That's been evidenced many times as-is. But osu! could always use less things for people to argue over.

My point with lesjuh was the hypocrisy of saying my map doesn't belong in App. when Tijd doesn't belong in Ranked by those standards. Until those standards and approval are dissolved, I don't see any error in either Tijd or my map.

I would support merge of App and ranked if it were presented in a reasonable fashion.

Metro wrote:

I won't stop posting because of your stupid thinking.

that's the easiest way to get banned other than posting CP, ddos, or cheating on a crapload of really hard songs.

If you remove approval category, will I have to map 3-4 diffs for, say, a 10 minute marathon? It takes a lot of time to map just one dif for such a long song. Don't even try to reply with "Don't map songs like that".

The implications were that there would still be approval-like maps (extremely long maps, pretty much - you can map easier for shorter songs regardless of how bullshitstreamshit of a 40,000,000 score Extra-Another diff you have on a 3:00 song) that might not follow the same rules as the rest of the ranked maps in a ranking process. Special Ranked, maybe?

Natteke wrote:

If you remove approval category, will I have to map 3-4 diffs for, say, a 10 minute marathon?

I don't see a problem with doing 3 difficulties on a 10 minute song. Marathon songs just take more time. No big deal.

You just have to be willing to finish it and find people willing to mod it. Yep.

everything is under BATs rules now
osu = BATs game then...

it was right ppl in game complain abt rank and approved map when it was going weird

Well, ultrainsane map can give high score, but they're a challenge anyway. So they're an example of what can go into "Ranked" maps.
Differently, maps that give an ultrahigh score in a relatively easy manner, they should go into Approved too with particular maps (with things that aren't so rankable or so, including the gimmick maps like ziin DJ Max style or Jubeat)

This whole fucking thread is bullshit. Let's get rid of approval? Well, let's just get rid of the whole damn game then. If scoring metrics doesn't matter anymore, then why should it matter how many maps are in a set?

If I want one diff set for a hard map that is meant to give a challenge, that is what I'm going to do. Getting rid of approval isn't going to force rules of approval, it just means the marathon maps are just going to add score based on a per-map basis (I.E Top 40), and on a monthly chart. This thread will solve nothing. Instead of bitching and whining (even more so the fact that the bitcher and whiner here did something that breaks the rules far more than these!), why don't you reivew the maps you questioned, since they fit the "CURRENT STANDARDS. Just because some of you can no-life the game and thus have far more skill than the average player doesn't mean the maps in question are easy. Some of you are veteran players, keep in question the rest of the people that play this game, rather than yourself and your groups of friends.

All you're doing now is just blowing hot air since you're upset that your maps don't get ranked as fast as others. So you just try to justify your complaints and in the process, you're doing far more evil than good.

P.S - Gimmick maps aren't meant to be approved, silly jackasses.

I agree with ztrot - the rules we have compromised with already give tremendous edge to the higher tier players who are arguably the ones catered for the most by mappers. I think out of all the people entitled to complain about the rules and regulations, good players are not a part of that.

What we should be doing is focusing less on this extremely vocal minority and instead tinkering with some ideas to get mappers proactively creating good easy/normal/hard difficulties instead of them being additions to an otherwise extremely difficult insane map.

Removing approval changes nothing. Approval has always been centered on score limit to preserve what pathetic fragments of tangible score metric that we have left. You would think that people who are well versed in said metric would wholeheartedly understand the need to cap the number of maps with extremely high scores in order to keep it some semblance of competitive.