Proposal

Sinnoh wrote:

osu! Catch's guidelines in the General section is quite lacking. Some DQ worthy issues have been brought up before, but were dismissed because they were not part of our mode's Ranking Criteria.
I am proposing to copy some of the guidelines for standard mode and add them to catch, as there is significant similarity between the two modes.
osu's General Guidelines
Catch's General Guidelines
Remember, these are guidelines and not rules.

Proposal

Guidelines to be added

1. All circles and slider heads should be snapped to distinct sounds in the music. Adding hit objects where there is no musical cue to justify them can result in unfitting rhythms. No, or at least we need a lot of discussion on this one. Because in catch mode slidertail=sliderhead>slidertick>>0 in rhythm (regardless of distance), only discussing circles/sliderheads is meaningless.
2. Slider tick rate should be set according to the song. For example if your song contains a section that uses 1/3 snapping only, using tick rate 2 would not be fitting for the entire map. In such cases, tick rate 1 should be used. We've already had it, long ago
3. Avoid using combo colours with ~50 luminosity or lower. Dark colours like these impact readability with low background dim.
4. Avoid using combo colours with ~220 luminosity or higher. They create bright pulses which can be unpleasant to the eyes.
5. Avoid keysounding without hitnormal support. If hit sounds blend perfectly with the song, feedback is minimal. TBH in catch mode we don't need feedback as strong as in STD but I can understand this one.
6. Difficulty should be appropriately expressed to represent the intensities of different sections in the music. More complex/denser rhythms and more complex/quicker movements should be appropriately used to produce feedback through difficulty. Denser rhythm has no necessary direct relation to higher difficulty in catch mode. So having this one alone as a guideline isn't a good idea. Or it should be discussed diff-specificly
7. Avoid major composition differences in similar sections of a song. The basic spacing and rhythm should be similar, while patterning can vary. This ensures that rhythm and intensity in all similar sections reflect a song similarly. Basic spacing, hmmm, I don't think we really have such a thing in catch mode because jumps/walks/HDashes are differed highly. It isn't possible that when two different parts have completely different basic spacing while they are still in a same playing experience. So using "basic spacing" to describe such a thing sounds very weird.
8. Jumps should be used to highlight certain sounds in the music. Because playing a jump pattern puts more pressure on the player, they naturally fit better for highlighting certain sounds. In fact in Overdose, we usually HDash a lot, just as how STD players map Experts. So this guideline needs great polishment if we really try to build up a guideline of how to use jumps/HDashes, let alone there're edge dashes in catch mode, which is far complicated than the situation in STD
9. Spinners should be used when they fit the music. This is to ensure score differences among perfect plays on the leaderboard. They usually fit during held notes, changes in intensity, or transitions between sections. We've already had it, long ago
10. Avoid following multiple layers of the song if it is unclear what rhythm is prioritizing. Players should be able to discern what part of the song is being followed.
11. Sliderends of extended sliders should be snapped according to the song's beat structure. If the song is using a straight beat, 1/4 or 1/8 are recommended. If the song is using a swing beat, 1/6 or 1/12 are recommended. If the song has a beat in a different position from what was recommended, snapping to an actual beat always takes priority.
12. Try to spread your hit object placement evenly across the playfield. Cluttering hit objects in one section of the screen for no reason will make them stand out unnecessarily. Is it necessary for catch? at least we don't care about y-axis, while not spreading objects throughout the whole x-axis itself is already weird. Don't think there's really a need to add a guideline for that
13. Avoid using similar combo colours in successive combos. Players should be able to differentiate between different objects in a map. Unnecessary. Catch ppl don't need NC to do any reading. NC is only used to clean fruits.
14. Spinners and sliderends should have hit sound feedback. If either are used to represent a held sound and do not end on a distinct sound, having no feedback is acceptable. Disagree. Many players cannot catch a banana at the end of a spinner. Having sound feedback while not catching anything is actually super weird. While for slidertails, they are just regarded as the same as sliderheads in rhythm. So there's actually no need to mention slidertails particularly.

Guidelines that need discussion on whether they should be included

1. Buzz sliders should have appropriate delay before the next note. 1/8 and 1/16 sliders should be followed by a 1/4 gap, whereas 1/12 sliders should be followed by a 1/6 gap. This ensures that the hit-window between hit objects is playable. There's no hit-window for catch players, tbh

1/8 and 1/16 hyperdashes should generally be avoided, but not for the same reasons. Hyperdashes of high snaps cause the SR to inflate significantly if abused, and may not represent the difficulty of the map. We have avoided using the word "SR" in RC for the most of the time because it shouldn't affect how we mod maps. Just as how we should not care too much about pp when modding.

1. Sliders should begin on stronger beats and end on equal or weaker sounds. Stressing important sounds through clicking is more natural to play than stressing unimportant sounds. We only care about the distance in catch mode, regardless of it being a circle/sliderhead/slidertail. TBH I still think it stupid in STD criteria because sliders are often used properly to connect two similar strong sounds. But some modders (including BNs) tend to criticize such usage if there's a note on a weak sound following. Isn't it just natural that mappers use a slider to connect two similar sounds?

It's quite common for us to start sliders on strong sounds, but ending on strong sounds is also somewhat acceptable. Regardless, keeping this as a guideline would probably be helpful to new mappers when choosing rhythm.

1. Avoid extended sliders which pass through important sounds. If an extended slider tail lands on silence and passes through a loud sound, players may have trouble interpreting rhythm. In these cases, it is better to place the slider tail on an audible beat. Would agree to make it a guideline.
   However mappers are still allowed to use sliderticks with strong hitsound to achieve a similar case (which sounds stupid, tho)

Slider ticks have much more impact than standard mode if used right. However, this would be better to keep to help new mappers, as guidelines can be broken for experienced mappers.

Guidelines that are not included

Guidelines that are not included

• Visual Mechanics are not shared with standard mode

1. Avoid perfectly overlapping slider bodies in a way that causes reading issues. Doing so can cause sliders to be misread as a circle due to obscuring the slider body.
2. Avoid overlapping hit objects with other elements of the default and beatmap-specific skins. This refers to all elements that are part of the interface and can be skinned.
   
   Playing mechanics are not shared with standard mode
3. Avoid using high tick rates combined with low slider velocity. Receiving feedback from slider ticks that are not visible can be uncomfortable.
4. When including a slider velocity change, there should be a discernible change in the song's pacing. Otherwise the velocity change would feel unsupported by the music.
5. Avoid rhythms which are in no way predictable. Rhythm can be made intuitive through the usage of consistent timeline gaps bridging between different snappings, time-distance equality, or slider reverses/ends snapped to irregular beats.
   
   Redundant with an existing guideline.
6. Ensure that your combos are not unreasonably short or long. Combos should reflect patterns expressed in the song, such as bars of music or vocal/instrumental phrases.
7. Make sure that your spinners are not unreasonably long. Aim for a maximum spinning time of about 5-7 seconds; any longer can cause the player's wrist to get sore. If your spinner must be longer, be sure that the music suggests this.

Other notes
Colors were changed to Colours because the wiki states British English should be used and we aren't savages. LMAO

1. All circles and slider heads should be snapped to distinct sounds in the music. Adding hit objects where there is no musical cue to justify them can result in unfitting rhythms. No, or at least we need a lot of discussion on this one. Because in catch mode slidertail=sliderhead>slidertick>>0 in rhythm (regardless of distance), only discussing circles/sliderheads is meaningless. I think this rule is more for "Don't have a deathstream on a part with no sounds"
   
   
2. Avoid major composition differences in similar sections of a song. The basic spacing and rhythm should be similar, while patterning can vary. This ensures that rhythm and intensity in all similar sections reflect a song similarly. Basic spacing, hmmm, I don't think we really have such a thing in catch mode because jumps/walks/HDashes are differed highly. It isn't possible that when two different parts have completely different basic spacing while they are still in a same playing experience. So using "basic spacing" to describe such a thing sounds very weird. This one is more for "Don't map the first half of a section as 1/1 rhythm no hyperdashes and the second half as 1/4 + hyperdashes", keep some consistency, but isn't too limiting
   
   
3. Try to spread your hit object placement evenly across the playfield. Cluttering hit objects in one section of the screen for no reason will make them stand out unnecessarily. Is it necessary for catch? at least we don't care about y-axis, while not spreading objects throughout the whole x-axis itself is already weird. Don't think there's really a need to add a guideline for that If the whole map is only on the left side then it's probably an issue
   
   
4. Avoid using similar combo colours in successive combos. Players should be able to differentiate between different objects in a map. Unnecessary. Catch ppl don't need NC to do any reading. NC is only used to clean fruits. Forgot to remove the bit about NC, meant this to be able to tell the difference between different objects.
   - Try and find the sliders here
   - Try and find the sliders here
   Combo colours are used for the sake of structure, having sliders separated from circles is clearer on what is what. Some players rely on this a lot.

Sinnoh wrote:

Guidelines to be added

1. All circles and slider heads should be snapped to distinct sounds in the music. Adding hit objects where there is no musical cue to justify them can result in unfitting rhythms. I do to an extent agree with FDF on this one, in gameplay, slider head and slider tail + repeats are the same as slider head and a normal circle but at the same time I think it's fine if you wanna have a hdash to a really strong beat when the snapping is 1/1 and you can't make a hdash any other way than with a 1/2 slider.
   
2. Slider tick rate should be set according to the song. For example if your song contains a section that uses 1/3 snapping only, using tick rate 2 would not be fitting for the entire map. In such cases, tick rate 1 should be used. Strong disagree on this, STR2 makes sliders visually look a lot better. Take this vs this. Should the entire map be punished just because of one 1/3 section? Just silence the sliderticks in the 1/3 section if it's really that bad lol
   
3. Spinners should be used when they fit the music. This is to ensure score differences among perfect plays on the leaderboard. They usually fit during held notes, changes in intensity, or transitions between sections. We already have a rule for this, I think the current rule is better worded than this one.
   
4. Avoid using similar combo colours in successive combos. Players should be able to differentiate between different objects in a map. Because the combo colors switch automatically between each object anyway, I find this rule useless. Anyway, you don't need to tell the difference between what's a slider and what's a circle in order to play it. In fact, my skin has only white circles and yellow droplets so I can't tell the difference between a circle or a slider unless there are droplets between them. Then it's better to adjust this rule to stating you need to be able to easily see the difference between all combo colors. (which I also disagree with because I don't think having the same combo colors has any impact on playability)
   
5. Spinners and sliderends should have hit sound feedback. If either are used to represent a held sound and do not end on a distinct sound, having no feedback is acceptable. I think having a fade out resulting in 5% on spinners are ok, however, I think sliderents should never be silenced simply because of the fact that they are visually the same as a slider head.

Guidelines that need discussion on whether they should be included

1. Buzz sliders should have appropriate delay before the next note. 1/8 and 1/16 sliders should be followed by a 1/4 gap, whereas 1/12 sliders should be followed by a 1/6 gap. This ensures that the hit-window between hit objects is playable. I mean, sure, as a guideline. However, using the word "Buzz sliders" might be a bit incorrect as many catch maps use actual circles for 1/8 and 1/16 and then the term "hit-window" is a bit off as well. You're also not specifying it's 1/8, 1/12 and 1/16 hdashes you're refering to(I assume?). Overall, I just think it's a bit unclear and not well adjusted to catch.

1/8 and 1/16 hyperdashes should generally be avoided, but not for the same reasons. Hyperdashes of high snaps cause the SR to inflate significantly if abused, and may not represent the difficulty of the map. If it fits the music, it fits, if not they should be removed anyway. Using "it abuses the SR" as a reason to not use it seems... Well, stupid.

1. Sliders should begin on stronger beats and end on equal or weaker sounds. Stressing important sounds through clicking is more natural to play than stressing unimportant sounds. I don't think these sentences are well adjusted to catch, you don't always click on important sounds, sometimes you hold and you tap and sometimes you have a stop movement to emphasize strong beats. However, I do agree you should put slider heads on the stronger beats. Again, it's just not well adjusted to catch and needs a bit of rewording.

It's quite common for us to start sliders on strong sounds, but ending on strong sounds is also somewhat acceptable. Regardless, keeping this as a guideline would probably be helpful to new mappers when choosing rhythm. Sure, but the RC isn't a mapping guide.

Sinnoh wrote:

Seems like the standard RC had some changes, will see what comes from that first