Skeletroll wrote:

Momiji wrote:

I can SS od10 270bpm 300 note streams but i get no extra pp for it, why/!?!!?!

Because the map stays 6.4 stars

You actually do get extra pp for od10

Houtarou Oreki wrote:

streaming streams longer than 9 notes and you may have the privilege to talk about this.

Momiji wrote:

Houtarou Oreki wrote:

streaming streams longer than 9 notes and you may have the privilege to talk about this.

i fc 176.25bpm 10417 note stream does this make mine argument valid?

Momiji wrote:

The reason why hd POTENTIALLY SHOULD have its pp bonus removed is because of both instances where the pp bonus is too small, and where it is too big. The difficulty increase is there but it's neither solid nor easily quantifiable, and the 2% acc and 18% aim bonus will remain retarded even in cases where the overall pp is just what it should be.

Houtarou Oreki wrote:

You don't say HD doesn't change ANYTHING in difficulty if you have enough experience is what I was trying to say. Trying, because I apparently I failed to do it. Or you're just playing stupid.

Houtarou Oreki wrote:

(you probably weren't)

Houtarou Oreki wrote:

It's just that I couldn't stop myself from showing him how much BS his post is, and it's the only thing my reply is for.

N0thingSpecial wrote:

Remove pp

Momiji wrote:

Houtarou Oreki wrote:

[...]Trying, because I apparently I failed to do it.[...]

[...]it's your own mistake (and of several people in this thread) to say random things like "get 5k pp", "9 note stream", and "you try it then", as opposed to actually targetting his argument.

Momiji wrote:

Houtarou Oreki wrote:

It's just that I couldn't stop myself from showing him how much BS his post is, and it's the only thing my reply is for.

so the reason why you didn't do it is because you were too lazy to actually target his argument? or what

N0thingSpecial wrote:

Remove pp

Houtarou Oreki wrote:

I didn't do... what exactly? Okay, either you failed to convey what you were just trying to say or I have no brain - may you be a bit more precise? I thought telling someone their argument is trash was a child's play. Or, well, hey, I probably just suck at doing it. Signing away, because tomorrow's a schoolday. Looking forward to reading your response on Thursday.

L-a-m-e-y [ B ] wrote:

N0thingSpecial wrote:

Remove pp

pandaBee wrote:

SPOILER

Wait, what?

Houtarou Oreki wrote:

So, where's the problem? Are you mad, because you have to play with HD to get more pp? Oh, but you don't like it. And that's the only reason you think it shouldn't give pp. That's your only argument.
Because "it doesn't increase the difficulty" is a bullshit statement.

Your post is pure bullshit. Make your way to at least 5k pp streaming streams longer than 9 notes and you may have the privilege to talk about this. And why are you even talking about AR greater than 9? You're at 3k pp. Don't make such a joke out of yourself.

pandaBee wrote:

SPOILER

Wait, what?

Endaris wrote:

pandaBee wrote:

SPOILER

Wait, what?

Inferno Cop travelling through time to fix all that is wrong :^)

Rayne wrote:

Imo they should just make CS, AR, and OD customizable by the player and unlock higher ODs without being forced to play HR / DT.
You can't play OD11 without using DT, which also increases the speed of the song. You can't play OD10 on some maps without HR, which also forces you to deal with smaller circles and a AR you might not find fun to play.

The modsystem imo is flawed. Just introduce a slider or smthn (like in the editor) where you can select your own preferences CS, AR, OD, offset yadayada and give a +X% score increase for each point exceeding the original values of the map. (Exception being AR)

Rayne wrote:

The actual problem for acc players is that you'll eventually get locked to OD10 with no way to increase your pp gain because you can't move up to a higher difficulty of accuracy, while aim players benefit from faster jumps, more spaced jumps, and the potential pp-gain of higher CS-values.

Aim players can just move to a more spaced / faster / more jumps map while acc players can't go above OD10.




Imo they should just make CS, AR, and OD customizable by the player and unlock higher ODs without being forced to play HR / DT.
You can't play OD11 without using DT, which also increases the speed of the song. You can't play OD10 on some maps without HR, which also forces you to deal with smaller circles and a AR you might not find fun to play.
.


The modsystem imo is flawed. Just introduce a slider or smthn (like in the editor) where you can select your own preferences CS, AR, OD, offset yadayada and give a +X% score increase for each point exceeding the original values of the map. (Exception being AR)

Also unlock higher values for OD/AR so acc players can go and play OD12 or smthn so they actually have a chance of competing with aim-players. There is only so much pp you can gain with OD10 right now, while aim-pp almost has no limit because almost everything correlates with it. (speed, spacing, cs, longer jump sections)

Emersyne wrote:

Rayne wrote:

The actual problem for acc players is that you'll eventually get locked to OD10 with no way to increase your pp gain because you can't move up to a higher difficulty of accuracy, while aim players benefit from faster jumps, more spaced jumps, and the potential pp-gain of higher CS-values.

Aim players can just move to a more spaced / faster / more jumps map while acc players can't go above OD10.




Imo they should just make CS, AR, and OD customizable by the player and unlock higher ODs without being forced to play HR / DT.
You can't play OD11 without using DT, which also increases the speed of the song. You can't play OD10 on some maps without HR, which also forces you to deal with smaller circles and a AR you might not find fun to play.
.


The modsystem imo is flawed. Just introduce a slider or smthn (like in the editor) where you can select your own preferences CS, AR, OD, offset yadayada and give a +X% score increase for each point exceeding the original values of the map. (Exception being AR)

Also unlock higher values for OD/AR so acc players can go and play OD12 or smthn so they actually have a chance of competing with aim-players. There is only so much pp you can gain with OD10 right now, while aim-pp almost has no limit because almost everything correlates with it. (speed, spacing, cs, longer jump sections)

I would really love to be able to play OD10 without guaranteed AR10 CS5.2+.

Rayne wrote:

The actual problem for acc players is that you'll eventually get locked to OD10 with no way to increase your pp gain because you can't move up to a higher difficulty of accuracy, while aim players benefit from faster jumps, more spaced jumps, and the potential pp-gain of higher CS-values.

Aim players can just move to a more spaced / faster / more jumps map while acc players can't go above OD10.

Imo they should just make CS, AR, and OD customizable by the player and unlock higher ODs without being forced to play HR / DT.
You can't play OD11 without using DT, which also increases the speed of the song. You can't play OD10 on some maps without HR, which also forces you to deal with smaller circles and a AR you might not find fun to play.
.

The modsystem imo is flawed. Just introduce a slider or smthn (like in the editor) where you can select your own preferences CS, AR, OD, offset yadayada and give a +X% score increase for each point exceeding the original values of the map. (Exception being AR)

Also unlock higher values for OD/AR so acc players can go and play OD12 or smthn so they actually have a chance of competing with aim-players. There is only so much pp you can gain with OD10 right now, while aim-pp almost has no limit because almost everything correlates with it. (speed, spacing, cs, longer jump sections)

repr1se wrote:

Rayne wrote:

The actual problem for acc players is that you'll eventually get locked to OD10 with no way to increase your pp gain because you can't move up to a higher difficulty of accuracy, while aim players benefit from faster jumps, more spaced jumps, and the potential pp-gain of higher CS-values.

Aim players can just move to a more spaced / faster / more jumps map while acc players can't go above OD10.

finally something i can agree with

Imo they should just make CS, AR, and OD customizable by the player and unlock higher ODs without being forced to play HR / DT.
You can't play OD11 without using DT, which also increases the speed of the song. You can't play OD10 on some maps without HR, which also forces you to deal with smaller circles and a AR you might not find fun to play.
.

kind of sensible, but why not just give bonus PP for a low unstable rate instead of adjusting an OD slider?

The modsystem imo is flawed. Just introduce a slider or smthn (like in the editor) where you can select your own preferences CS, AR, OD, offset yadayada and give a +X% score increase for each point exceeding the original values of the map. (Exception being AR)

Also unlock higher values for OD/AR so acc players can go and play OD12 or smthn so they actually have a chance of competing with aim-players. There is only so much pp you can gain with OD10 right now, while aim-pp almost has no limit because almost everything correlates with it. (speed, spacing, cs, longer jump sections)

want to know why AR is an exception

Rayne wrote:

It's the same reason why I argue that HR is flawed. You can't really say that AR10 is harder than AR xyz because it's always just a trade-off, which is why I personally would like to see the AR component of HR gone or implement a system like mentioned above.


Players who are good at low AR are getting shafted right now since most 5*+ maps which usually reward most pp are AR9-10. The pp-system doesn't care about object density / reading, so low AR is more or less a useless skill. People who are competent at high AR / HR can just slap HR on old maps and perform better on HR because of the AR than they'd be if it was nomod.

However, there is no such option for low AR players except easy, which drastically increases density and lowers the OD and CS. Again, the mod-system is flawed in this regard. Mods affect CS, AR and OD all at once instead of giving us the option to change the values individually.

Rayne wrote:

Players who are good at low AR are getting shafted right now since most 5*+ maps which usually reward most pp are AR9-10. The pp-system doesn't care about object density / reading, so low AR is more or less a useless skill. People who are competent at high AR / HR can just slap HR on old maps and perform better on HR because of the AR than they'd be if it was nomod.

Skeletroll wrote:

Since this thread basically turned into a suggestion/pp balance thread I'm gonna suggest that shorter songs (especially 30 second ones) should be worth way less while longer songs should be worth more. I think the balance point (weighted the same as normal) should fall around 1:30 since that is the average length of a map.

Yolshka wrote:

Rayne wrote:

Players who are good at low AR are getting shafted right now since most 5*+ maps which usually reward most pp are AR9-10. The pp-system doesn't care about object density / reading, so low AR is more or less a useless skill. People who are competent at high AR / HR can just slap HR on old maps and perform better on HR because of the AR than they'd be if it was nomod.

yeah,and by implementing custom ar you essentially just kill off those reamining people who invested time into practising low ar despite it not giving any pp, just throwing their efforts into the trash, cuz there will be no point in playing it anymore, or any ar other than 9.5-10.
Not like there is much now, but at least ar10 fuckbois cant get a better score on low ar old maps NOMOD.
It's fine if it's with HR cuz that makes it much harder in every aspect other than density reading.


I'm heavily against it.

And od too.
Im pretty sure the maximum possile setting for OD will always be the best choice for pp, i mean the pp difference is much more significant then the difference in timing window.The only reason not to use the max od would be if you have utterly trash accuracy, which is not true for most people actually, but then again, it wouldn't really matter because low od doesnt give shit, so you might as well just get an 80% max od fc.

and custom cs too btw.
that just a bit fuck you to the mapper because the whole thing will play out much differently than it was intended,and would also make high cs players irrelevant cuz that also doesnt give any pp, although im not sure how this one would work anyway.

Momiji wrote:

Skeletroll wrote:

Since this thread basically turned into a suggestion/pp balance thread I'm gonna suggest that shorter songs (especially 30 second ones) should be worth way less while longer songs should be worth more. I think the balance point (weighted the same as normal) should fall around 1:30 since that is the average length of a map.

Yolshka wrote:

yeah,and by implementing custom ar you essentially just kill off those reamining people who invested time into practising low ar despite it not giving any pp, just throwing their efforts into the trash, cuz there will be no point in playing it anymore, or any ar other than 9.5-10.
Not like there is much now, but at least ar10 fuckbois cant get a better score on low ar old maps NOMOD.
It's fine if it's with HR cuz that makes it much harder in every aspect other than density reading.


I'm heavily against it.

And od too.
Im pretty sure the maximum possile setting for OD will always be the best choice for pp, i mean the pp difference is much more significant then the difference in timing window.The only reason not to use the max od would be if you have utterly trash accuracy, which is not true for most people actually, but then again, it wouldn't really matter because low od doesnt give shit, so you might as well just get an 80% max od fc.

and custom cs too btw.
that just a bit fuck you to the mapper because the whole thing will play out much differently than it was intended,and would also make high cs players irrelevant cuz that also doesnt give any pp, although im not sure how this one would work anyway.

B1rd wrote:

N0thingSpecial wrote:

Remove pp