Hello there,

I would like to make a suggestion for the following rule:

Ranking Criteria wrote:

A mapset cannot have just one osu!taiko or osu!mania difficulty. If you decide, for example, to include osu!taiko in your map, make sure you have at least 2 osu!taiko mode difficulties and that one of them is of an easier difficulty level if it doesn't have an osu! standard Easy level difficulty.

Let's explain my idea.

On hybrid std/taiko sets, we usually see mapsets that got 1 Muzukashii difficulty, 1 Oni and sometimes 1 Inner Oni, but we rarely see Futsuu difficulties. In that case, how new players could play this mapset in Taiko, if they don't have any difficulty appropriated to their level? They will play converted difficulties.

And I think that's the problem of this rule, the lack of difficulty for new players, I came across this problem while I began playing Taiko. I had to play converted, or full Taiko sets, cause usually on hybrid sets, I could not pass any difficulty, due to the lack of Futsuu (or difficulty for my level). But let's be honest, converted are not really good to prepare new players to the osu!Taiko world.

Converted standard difficulties does not follow the same rules as Taiko, so that's why I don't think it's a good way to give to new players those kind of difficulties, here are my thoughts about this issue:

1. Density: On some converted maps, we can see some parts that are fully mapped with sliders, and it makes the difficulty absolutely boring, cause it just consists to smash keyboard, while sometimes clicking on a d or a k between two sliders. Also, the density on some converted difficulties can be inconsistant at all.
   
2. Standard hitsounding: As you can guess, standard hitsounding is not same at all, compared to the Taiko one that is very basic where it just consists to use "normal" hitsounds and basic hitsounds. In standard there is also "soft" / "drum" hitsounds.
   The big problem in this point is that the drum hitsounding is not transcribed in Taiko, so it doesn't give any feedback at all since there is no sound, and I find this issue very disturbing and misleading, especially for a beginner.

In my opinion, those two points are the most important issues of converted diffs and hybrid sets. I don't suggest to change convert algorithm, cause we can't, but more about changing the rule, especially the part: "that one of them is of an easier difficulty level if it doesn't have an osu! standard Easy level difficulty" into something that would force the mapper to have a Futsuu as lowest Taiko hybrid diffs into their sets even if the set got an Easy (osu!std) difficulty or not, since Futsuu are not long to map, and doesn't need tons of mods to be decent/rankable.
Also, with that idea, that would create more quality content for beginners, because recent maps that got Futsuu are only full Taiko sets, and since Marathons are getting more and more recurrent.

If you have anything else to say, feel free to, I'm open to everyone's opinion, the converted maps/hybrid Taiko might have other breaches.

Have a good day everyone, hope I'll get some feedback on that subject. Thanks for your attention.

I agree with this one. The new players will distress to found a map with easier diff in hybrid set. We should add a easier diff for new players.

One question, how about with lower BPM song map? Does need easier diff if Muzu and Oni is already easier? Thank you

It could work, but What about the people who could say "They can just play a full Taiko set just to learn and then come back to play this"?
It might not be very beginner friendly, specially since when one starts off at osu!, they usually go for the songs that they know and like.

And also what about the mappers whose entire sets got DQ'd because of one simple mistake at the futsuu diff? They could make them frustrated and unmotivated to continue making Hybrid sets because of just one difficulty.
I know you said "since Futsuu are not long to map, and doesn't need tons of mods to be decent/rankable.", but still that issue could happen either way

And speaking of which, How hard should this futsuu be? because remember some people cant do Futsuu difficulties right, unless its nearly a Kantan-level

But either way, i like this idea

Vulkin wrote:

It could work, but What about the people who could say "They can just play a full Taiko set just to learn and then come back to play this"?
It might not be very beginner friendly, specially since when one starts off at osu!, they usually go for the songs that they know and like.

There is a problem with this, since as you said new players like to play songs they like, not for ranking or else, they're looking for fun. If they have to play songs they don't really like to train their ability in Taiko, that might be unmotivating for them. That's why they need a difficulty that is around their level so they can train their gameplay with songs they like.

Vulkin wrote:

And also what about the mappers whose entire sets got DQ'd because of one simple mistake at the futsuu diff? They could make them frustrated and unmotivated to continue making Hybrid sets because of just one difficulty.
I know you said "since Futsuu are not long to map, and doesn't need tons of mods to be decent/rankable.", but still that issue could happen either way

I doubt that it's unmotivating to fix stuffs on Futsuu only as you said, since they usually don't have a lot of objects, so it might take few minutes/hours to fix this, nothing too hard in my opinion.
It's the same system in Standard sets, so why making Taiko different from Standard one? Especially since Futsuu is not time consuming as an Oni or a difficulty with complex ideas could be.

Vulkin wrote:

And speaking of which, How hard should this futsuu be? because remember some people cant do Futsuu difficulties right, unless its nearly a Kantan-level

I'll not talking about Star Rating in this thread, since it's quite rigged in Taiko. So it's a way better to talk about density here. I think a difficulty which is accessible for most of Futsuu player would be good, since Futsuu difficulties use basic patterns.

Hope this will answer to your questions!

I like the idea of Oni/Futsuu in hybrids because that way there's an easily accessible diff and one they can come back to later as a goal. That's what motivates me in bemani games, the idea of my favorite songs having harder diffs to force me to compare how far I can get over and over was satisfying, but how it'd sit in osu! is iffy, since saving a mapper's time isn't exactly a concern in the ranking process.

Counterargument of course that this just means hybrids are shitty full sets, but that's what we've got going on here anyways.

tl;dr the proposition is:

standard/taiko hybrid sets should have at least 2 taiko diffs, the lowest of which cannot be harder than a futsuu

get some opinions and a consensus or this is gonna get archived

archived