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[Mania] Ranking the Hard Rock mod

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +380
Penda
12 posts
Joined April 2014
Topic Starter
Penda
January this year it was decided that Double Time now affects the Performance Point calculation on submitted scores, giving speed players an incredible boost on the rankings. On the contrary, there is very little reward for people who are able to play accurately with good ratios between 320s/300s.

This is why I would like to request not only for the Hard Rock mod to be enabled for score submission, but also for PP calculation. As Hard Rock does not affect the placement of notes, like how Random does, it seems a bit odd for this one to not submit plays, whereas it does so just fine in every other gamemode.
For PP calculation, I feel like it would be ideal to reward not just normal accuracy, but more specifically players who obtain a very high 320 to 300 ratio. This would reward a skillset commonly looked over after a year of people looking to speed their way through an A-rank score on certain maps, most commonly in the 4-key playerbase.
Myrdana
44 posts
Joined August 2015
Myrdana
Been wanting this one for quite some time, never accually took te time to submit a request, take my stars
Halogen-
Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015
574 posts
Joined September 2009
Halogen-
I would absolutely love this... however, it would actually amplify the issue with performance points for those players that are super capable of keeping up with really high-end difficulty stuff. It would need to have a very harsh curve in determining how to award PP, and players should not get any boost at all whatsoever below a certain percentage, that is: they should get 1x PP while using HR if their percentage is below a cutoff.
Penda
12 posts
Joined April 2014
Topic Starter
Penda

Halogen- wrote:

I would absolutely love this... however, it would actually amplify the issue with performance points for those players that are super capable of keeping up with really high-end difficulty stuff. It would need to have a very harsh curve in determining how to award PP, and players should not get any boost at all whatsoever below a certain percentage, that is: they should get 1x PP while using HR if their percentage is below a cutoff.
Precisely, I was thinking of not just rewarding normal accuracy as the percentage but the actual "Marvelous Ratio" high-level players would be looking at, with a sharp decline. Kind of like how accuracy in Scorev2 doesn't reward an SS unless your ratio is at 100% R300/Marvelous.
Edgar_Figaro
919 posts
Joined May 2015
Edgar_Figaro
I had the same thought when they made DT change that speed players got a huge advantage over ACC players. Would be nice to see more incentive to ACC players
Full Tablet
2,543 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet
Hard Rock doesn't change how the game is played, it just has tighter timing windows.

Hard Rock as it is could just be a visual mod (the judgments displayed correspond to the tighter timing windows, but the score is calculated in the background as if you were playing no-mod). That would be the most fair way to rank this mod.

The idea of giving more pp for very accurate plays could be done independently from using this mod or not.
Edgar_Figaro
919 posts
Joined May 2015
Edgar_Figaro

Full Tablet wrote:

Hard Rock doesn't change how the game is played, it just has tighter timing windows.

Hard Rock as it is could just be a visual mod (the judgments displayed correspond to the tighter timing windows, but the score is calculated in the background as if you were playing no-mod). That would be the most fair way to rank this mod.

The idea of giving more pp for very accurate plays could be done independently from using this mod or not.
HR would be harder than just getting 1,000,000 though as it makes the timing windows for Max 300 tighter as well. HR would just make it a simple quantifiable thing to be measured rather than "who got the lowest UR" or something weird of the sorts. Sure it would only be an increase in OD, but make it increase PP like if the map had a higher OD. Also although this isn't quite as applicable the HP increase would still have an affect for players who miss.
Myrdana
44 posts
Joined August 2015
Myrdana
Hard Rock in its current form acually isn't just an increase in OD. The timimg windows for a rainbow 300 nomod is always roughly ~16ms regardless of OD. With Hard Rock however this changes to arround ~11ms which is significantly less. Also the HP increases, but HP10 doesnt acually feel all that punishing. However it is an increase.

On a side note Easy mod changes it to ~22ms (Which I heard is about the same as judge 4 in stepmania)
Its a great mod for training on fast maps and new paterns, however its useless for farming in its current state, because halftime is much easier but rated equally.
Halogen-
Former osu!mania 4K Champion: 2015
574 posts
Joined September 2009
Halogen-

Redenor wrote:

Hard Rock in its current form acually isn't just an increase in OD. The timimg windows for a rainbow 300 nomod is always roughly ~16ms regardless of OD. With Hard Rock however this changes to arround ~11ms which is significantly less. Also the HP increases, but HP10 doesnt acually feel all that punishing. However it is an increase.

On a side note Easy mod changes it to ~22ms (Which I heard is about the same as judge 4 in stepmania)
Its a great mod for training on fast maps and new paterns, however its useless for farming in its current state, because halftime is much easier but rated equally.
HP10 is ridiculously punishing; most ranked maps simply don't get hard enough to invoke that punishment. It takes hundreds of notes just to recover from a single miss (in my old video playing bbu2's We Luv Lama [AAA], I think it took over 400 notes to fully recover from the single miss!?)

You are right about how Hard Rock does work though; the OD is not factored into the 300g window size at all normally, but HR shrinks it (and the other windows as well) by 40%, if I remember correctly.
Adri
311 posts
Joined June 2014
Adri
This is why players capable of playing maps with this and still getting decent scores should be rewarded IMO
Currently, we are disencouraged to train this skillset that is beyond accuracy and make the best players :/
Edgar_Figaro
919 posts
Joined May 2015
Edgar_Figaro
One small isssue with ranking the Hard Rock mod though is that the Mania PP calculation will need to be altered. Currently in Taiko, and I'd assume how it is setup in Mania, the PP calculates based on the OD of the map. Taiko also has a scroll speed change but that isn't considered a change to map difficulty. On the other hand the change to the "Max 300 Window" is outside of the OD on the map and would need to be accounted for. As it is currently, a high OD map in Mania gives very little bonus PP over a low OD.

For instance according to calculator a 100% 1,000,000 score play on a OD0 5* map would give 303PP while at OD10 gives 327PP making OD changes practically irrelevant.

Just something to keep in mind if we want to move this request forward, due to OD changes being so little rewarded it would only be for the purpose of "Global Ranking (Selected Mods)" bragging rights, and wouldn't actually be viable for players seeking to improve ranking like the DT mod change was.
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