2017-10-10 16:58 Seto Kousuke: hey hey
2017-10-10 16:58 Seto Kousuke: u busy now? ^^
2017-10-10 16:58 Flevius: hey :D
2017-10-10 16:58 Flevius: nope, not really
2017-10-10 16:58 Seto Kousuke: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1437814 Stan SB - Dead [Reincarnation]]
2017-10-10 16:58 Seto Kousuke: wanna chat a bit ? 
2017-10-10 16:58 Flevius: sure c:
2017-10-10 16:59 Seto Kousuke: hai hai
2017-10-10 16:59 Seto Kousuke: first things first then
2017-10-10 16:59 Seto Kousuke: do you map 4fun, or want to really get better at mapping and stuff
2017-10-10 17:00 Flevius: both actually. I map songs, that I like and because I have fun mapping them. but I also aim at getting better.
2017-10-10 17:00 Seto Kousuke: okie, that works then
2017-10-10 17:00 Seto Kousuke: So, this map is fun, since that's your intention, you kinda got it, it's fun to play, gj
2017-10-10 17:00 Flevius: mainly fun though I guess
2017-10-10 17:00 Flevius: although I would like to rank a map in the distant future once I actually know how to do it xD
2017-10-10 17:01 Seto Kousuke: nice
2017-10-10 17:01 Flevius: ayy thanks :D
2017-10-10 17:01 Seto Kousuke: so...as a mapping perspective, it has 3 major inconsistencies/issues that repeats itself over and over again
2017-10-10 17:01 Seto Kousuke: which is kinda common in long maps made by beginners (beginners i mean like...less than 15 maps made)
2017-10-10 17:01 Seto Kousuke: and those are really common issues
2017-10-10 17:02 Seto Kousuke: first one, your Rythm issue
2017-10-10 17:02 Flevius: yea I saw that comming xD even I could tell that the map is really inconsistent
2017-10-10 17:02 Seto Kousuke: :P
2017-10-10 17:02 Seto Kousuke: so, the problem with your rythm
2017-10-10 17:02 Seto Kousuke: is that by looking at your map
2017-10-10 17:02 Seto Kousuke: i get the feeling you had lots of ideas, but didn't know how to make them...so you mashed all of them together
2017-10-10 17:02 Seto Kousuke: vocal focus mashed with instrumental focus
2017-10-10 17:02 Seto Kousuke: mashed with everything
2017-10-10 17:03 Seto Kousuke: so although you made a DnB map with standar triplets, streams, etc...your structure was damaged
2017-10-10 17:03 Flevius: yup sounds like me
2017-10-10 17:03 Seto Kousuke: because you keep changing it all the time
2017-10-10 17:03 Seto Kousuke: for example
2017-10-10 17:03 Seto Kousuke: look at here
2017-10-10 17:03 Seto Kousuke: 04:12:458 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2) - 
2017-10-10 17:03 Flevius: ok so basically I should decide on one instrument.. ?
2017-10-10 17:03 Seto Kousuke: one point at a time
2017-10-10 17:03 Seto Kousuke: hold on~
2017-10-10 17:03 Seto Kousuke: xD
2017-10-10 17:03 Seto Kousuke: 04:12:801 (2) - this note and 
2017-10-10 17:03 Seto Kousuke: 04:13:487 (6) - 
2017-10-10 17:04 Seto Kousuke: do you see the emphasiz you're putting on the claps?
2017-10-10 17:04 Seto Kousuke: they're really strong and you're emphasizing them as major on rythm
2017-10-10 17:04 Seto Kousuke: because of that DS
2017-10-10 17:04 Seto Kousuke: so you're saying, this is instrumental
2017-10-10 17:04 Seto Kousuke: but here
2017-10-10 17:04 Seto Kousuke: 04:13:658 (7,8,1,2) - 
2017-10-10 17:04 Flevius: yea the drum sound lands on a sliderend..
2017-10-10 17:04 Seto Kousuke: 04:14:173 (2) - this is also a clap, but you changed drastically your structure, you did that for vocals
2017-10-10 17:05 Seto Kousuke: no, it lands on the head
2017-10-10 17:05 Seto Kousuke: xD
2017-10-10 17:05 Seto Kousuke: on the head of 2
2017-10-10 17:05 Seto Kousuke: but the DS is so low, and that's because now you mapped for vocals
2017-10-10 17:05 Seto Kousuke: you completly forgot about the previous structure
2017-10-10 17:05 Flevius: oh.. I thought you were talking about the 1 xD sorry
2017-10-10 17:05 Seto Kousuke: nah xD
2017-10-10 17:05 Seto Kousuke: 04:15:201 (1,2,3) -  and here you come back to focus instrumental
2017-10-10 17:05 Seto Kousuke: look at that emphasized 2
2017-10-10 17:06 Seto Kousuke: your map keeps changin, all the time
2017-10-10 17:06 Seto Kousuke: that's not a bad idea, if you do it properly and the song allows it
2017-10-10 17:06 Seto Kousuke: but since you don't ''know'' how to do that properly, I suggest you don't try
2017-10-10 17:06 Seto Kousuke: on your next map for example
2017-10-10 17:06 Seto Kousuke: make a thought ''ok, i will focus vocals...if the vocals stop for a moment, i'll make a filler rythm with instruments''
2017-10-10 17:06 Seto Kousuke: ''and when the vocal comes back, focus on him''
2017-10-10 17:07 Seto Kousuke: then you make a consistent and good structured rythm you know?
2017-10-10 17:07 Flevius: sounds good. I will try to do that :D
2017-10-10 17:07 Seto Kousuke: the other can work too ''i'll focus instruments....but if vocals stands out TOO much, i'll focus him for a bit''
2017-10-10 17:07 Seto Kousuke: the second issue
2017-10-10 17:07 Seto Kousuke: your Angles
2017-10-10 17:08 Seto Kousuke: there are angles that feel good...there are angles that are stressfull, and there are angles that are literally terrible, they only work in specific situations and if made properly
2017-10-10 17:08 Seto Kousuke: otherwise, they're just terrible
2017-10-10 17:08 Seto Kousuke: let's take a look for example here: 04:12:458 (1,2,3) - 
2017-10-10 17:08 Seto Kousuke: create an angle using the tail of 1, 2 and 3
2017-10-10 17:09 Seto Kousuke: that's movement the player will do
2017-10-10 17:09 Seto Kousuke: can you see that?
2017-10-10 17:09 Flevius: yea
2017-10-10 17:09 Seto Kousuke: ok
2017-10-10 17:09 Seto Kousuke: can you see that this angle is less than 90° ?
2017-10-10 17:09 Flevius: yea it's a sharp angle
2017-10-10 17:10 Seto Kousuke: angles that are less than 90° and higher than 25°  are almost 99% of the time good angles
2017-10-10 17:10 Flevius: 02:51:887 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1) - but this is a pain in the ass to play xD I haven't changed it yet because I'm an evil person who likes making people suffer
2017-10-10 17:10 Flevius: but I'll change it soon I guess
2017-10-10 17:10 Seto Kousuke: they're comfortable, they don't apply tension and anything
2017-10-10 17:10 Seto Kousuke: yeah, kinda xD
2017-10-10 17:10 Seto Kousuke: but the problem there is another thing
2017-10-10 17:10 Seto Kousuke: lets focus here for a while
2017-10-10 17:11 Seto Kousuke: 04:13:144 (5,6,7) - but now look at this angle
2017-10-10 17:11 Seto Kousuke: same thing, tail of 5, 6 and 7
2017-10-10 17:11 Seto Kousuke: it's waaaay higher than 90°
2017-10-10 17:11 Seto Kousuke: and it's less than 180° (180 is a straight line)
2017-10-10 17:11 Seto Kousuke: angles like this, are the third case
2017-10-10 17:11 Flevius: yea.. I changed it without any reason...
2017-10-10 17:11 Flevius: I can see that
2017-10-10 17:11 Seto Kousuke: they're terrible.  Unless done in the right way in the right situation
2017-10-10 17:11 Seto Kousuke: yup
2017-10-10 17:11 Seto Kousuke: 04:14:858 (4,5,6,1) -  same thing here
2017-10-10 17:12 Seto Kousuke: look at this high DS, with this High angle
2017-10-10 17:12 Seto Kousuke: almost literally 180°
2017-10-10 17:12 Seto Kousuke: a straigh line of movement
2017-10-10 17:12 Seto Kousuke: you avoid that, unless the structure/song/etc permits it
2017-10-10 17:12 Seto Kousuke: but as I said on the previous tip...since you don't know how to do it yet properly
2017-10-10 17:12 Seto Kousuke: don't try
2017-10-10 17:13 Seto Kousuke: focus on making a map that is consistent and good to play
2017-10-10 17:13 Flevius: yup I will.. thanks for that c:
2017-10-10 17:13 Seto Kousuke: ^^
2017-10-10 17:13 Seto Kousuke: and the last thing
2017-10-10 17:13 Seto Kousuke: this one is a combination of the 2 other points I told you
2017-10-10 17:13 Seto Kousuke: it's the highly inconsistent DS
2017-10-10 17:14 Seto Kousuke: again, let's look at this same section for example
2017-10-10 17:14 Seto Kousuke: 04:12:458 (1,2) - 
2017-10-10 17:14 Seto Kousuke: this is your DS for a note emphasizing the strong Clap sound
2017-10-10 17:14 Seto Kousuke: 2 is the sound
2017-10-10 17:14 Flevius: sorry but DS means drum sound?
2017-10-10 17:14 Seto Kousuke: oh, no no
2017-10-10 17:14 Seto Kousuke: DS = Distance Snap
2017-10-10 17:14 Seto Kousuke: when someone says DS
2017-10-10 17:14 Flevius: ohh.. yea makes sense
2017-10-10 17:14 Seto Kousuke: they're saying ''the distance between notes''
2017-10-10 17:15 Seto Kousuke: mapping has 2 golden basic rules
2017-10-10 17:15 Flevius: yea I know what distance snap is
2017-10-10 17:15 Seto Kousuke: a clickable note is a stron sound that needs clickable feedback
2017-10-10 17:15 Seto Kousuke: and the distance of the note must represent it's intensity
2017-10-10 17:15 Seto Kousuke: ofc, there are ''complex'' exceptions, but that's it, always turns back to this
2017-10-10 17:15 Seto Kousuke: so for example, here this strong clap sound has a 2,01x DS
2017-10-10 17:16 Seto Kousuke: if you don't like this number bullshit, you can do like me
2017-10-10 17:16 Flevius: and it's so inconsistent because I kinda tried to map with it but then I moved the notes most of the time to so some aesthetical things. I have problems making maps look good so most of the time I sacrifice quality for not even good aesthetics xD
2017-10-10 17:16 Seto Kousuke: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9288306
2017-10-10 17:16 Seto Kousuke: map with the standard skin, follow points are arrows
2017-10-10 17:16 Seto Kousuke: use the arrows to keep DS consistent
2017-10-10 17:16 Seto Kousuke: ''clap sounds have 4 arrows....strong jumps sections have 5-6.....regular notes have 2-1, etc''
2017-10-10 17:16 Seto Kousuke: idk, use them to keep things consistent
2017-10-10 17:17 Seto Kousuke: so there for example, you have 4 arrows for this strong clapping sound
2017-10-10 17:17 Seto Kousuke: 04:14:516 (3,4) - 
2017-10-10 17:17 Seto Kousuke: here you have 2
2017-10-10 17:17 Flevius: yea that sounds like a good idea.. I haven't even thought about using the arrows like that..
2017-10-10 17:17 Seto Kousuke: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9288318
2017-10-10 17:17 Seto Kousuke: i think it's way easier to map
2017-10-10 17:17 Seto Kousuke: for example
2017-10-10 17:17 Seto Kousuke: i have many patterns already that I know how to make in any situation
2017-10-10 17:18 Seto Kousuke: for example, let me teach you one good on that will work almost always
2017-10-10 17:18 Seto Kousuke: using arrows
2017-10-10 17:18 Seto Kousuke: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9288327
2017-10-10 17:18 Seto Kousuke: 3 arrows -> 1 arrow -> 3 arrows
2017-10-10 17:19 Seto Kousuke: if you land the 3 arrows on a strong sound, the next sound will always be a ''support'' sound, because the strong one just came
2017-10-10 17:19 Seto Kousuke: so it makes sense to have a smaller DS
2017-10-10 17:19 Seto Kousuke: and after that, there will be a strong sound
2017-10-10 17:19 Seto Kousuke: so...3->1->3
2017-10-10 17:19 Seto Kousuke: you arrange it on any pattern you like,  any angle
2017-10-10 17:19 Seto Kousuke: specially on DnB maps
2017-10-10 17:19 Seto Kousuke: since it's so constant
2017-10-10 17:19 Seto Kousuke: so it will probably be always like this,  strong, support, strong, support, etc 
2017-10-10 17:20 Flevius: yea that's basically just how music works :P
2017-10-10 17:20 Seto Kousuke: you're kinda ''new'' to mapping, so you ''database'' of patterns/motions/etc are small, but as you map more, you'll start to understand more
2017-10-10 17:20 Seto Kousuke: and that's it
2017-10-10 17:21 Seto Kousuke: summarizing everything, make a rythm structure that is consistent....Make DS consistent with the music....and be carefull with your angles
2017-10-10 17:21 Flevius: okay then thank you very much for your time <3 I really appreciate it :D
2017-10-10 17:21 Seto Kousuke: did you notice how my entire ''mod'' was using only 2 patterns ?
2017-10-10 17:21 Seto Kousuke: the entire map has all of this issues over and over again, so...next time, try choosing a smaller song
2017-10-10 17:21 Seto Kousuke: you'll learn faster
2017-10-10 17:21 Seto Kousuke: <3
2017-10-10 17:22 Flevius: yea I know.. also many problems I had are because it took me almost half a year to finish that song (I put it on halt and resumed mapping a few times and I'm not a fast mapper)
2017-10-10 17:22 Flevius: I just really wanted to map this song because it's so awesome imo c:
2017-10-10 17:22 Seto Kousuke: yeah, i feel you xD
2017-10-10 17:22 Seto Kousuke: you can always come back to remap it in the future btw
2017-10-10 17:22 Seto Kousuke: :P
2017-10-10 17:23 Seto Kousuke: ahh btw
2017-10-10 17:23 Seto Kousuke: about aestethics that you mentioned
2017-10-10 17:23 Flevius: yea I was planning on doing that on a few maps of mine but I have so many songs I
2017-10-10 17:23 Seto Kousuke: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9288366
2017-10-10 17:23 Flevius: I'd like to map that I don't think that I'll get to remap any of them soon xX
2017-10-10 17:23 Seto Kousuke: look at the marked notes
2017-10-10 17:23 Seto Kousuke: 6 and 1
2017-10-10 17:23 Seto Kousuke: 04:12:458 (1,6) - 
2017-10-10 17:24 Seto Kousuke: 6 is the note coming soon
2017-10-10 17:24 Seto Kousuke: and 1 is the slider that is disapearing
2017-10-10 17:24 Flevius: yea I can see that
2017-10-10 17:24 Seto Kousuke: do you see how you ''overlaped'' their positions?
2017-10-10 17:24 Seto Kousuke: they're not visible in-game
2017-10-10 17:24 Seto Kousuke: but there is an overlap of placement
2017-10-10 17:24 Seto Kousuke: i call that ''rubish'' (a rough translation of what I use in portuguese)
2017-10-10 17:24 Seto Kousuke: it's like...unecessary Dirt
2017-10-10 17:24 Seto Kousuke: you had an entire playfield to make your pattern clean
2017-10-10 17:24 Seto Kousuke: yet, you've chosen that same spot
2017-10-10 17:25 Seto Kousuke: without a ''overlap logic'' that had a visual effect
2017-10-10 17:25 Seto Kousuke: so it's basically dirt
2017-10-10 17:25 Seto Kousuke: if you moved it just a bit up..or down
2017-10-10 17:25 Seto Kousuke: your map would be 10x more clean
2017-10-10 17:25 Seto Kousuke: and would play actually better because of angles, you see ?
2017-10-10 17:25 Flevius: yea I was already thinking about the angle issue
2017-10-10 17:25 Seto Kousuke: avoid doing these ''dirt'' on your maps, try to never repeat positions, if you do, overlap it completly, or don't
2017-10-10 17:26 Seto Kousuke: ofc there are other overlap visual effects just like some of pishifats stuff....but as I said before, focus on basics
2017-10-10 17:26 Seto Kousuke: practice complex stuff later :P
2017-10-10 17:26 Flevius: 02:51:887 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1) -
2017-10-10 17:26 Seto Kousuke: so try to make your map clean 
2017-10-10 17:26 Flevius: I've tried getting some of these overlaps in from time to time
2017-10-10 17:27 Flevius: oh wait..
2017-10-10 17:27 Flevius: wrong link lmao
2017-10-10 17:27 Seto Kousuke: yeah aheoheaouae
2017-10-10 17:27 Seto Kousuke: btw, look, more Dirt https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9288392
2017-10-10 17:27 Flevius: 04:15:716 (3,4,5,6,7,2,3,4,5,6) -
2017-10-10 17:27 Flevius: there
2017-10-10 17:27 Seto Kousuke: yeah
2017-10-10 17:27 Seto Kousuke: 04:16:916 (1) -  oh damn don't do that xD
2017-10-10 17:27 Seto Kousuke: remember what I said about confusion on rythm?
2017-10-10 17:28 Seto Kousuke: that's what happened here
2017-10-10 17:28 Seto Kousuke: you was focusing insturments
2017-10-10 17:28 Seto Kousuke: and from nowhere....suddenly, slow slider with small DS appears
2017-10-10 17:28 Seto Kousuke: that's a huuuge issue
2017-10-10 17:28 Seto Kousuke: compare the DS 04:16:058 (7,1) - and 04:16:744 (6,1) - 
2017-10-10 17:29 Flevius: yea... it looked off from the beginning but stupid as I am I ignored it \ :D /
2017-10-10 17:29 Seto Kousuke: xDD
2017-10-10 17:29 Seto Kousuke: avoid these too btw 04:17:944 (1,2) - 
2017-10-10 17:29 Seto Kousuke: there were many issues with this
2017-10-10 17:29 Seto Kousuke: try focusing on a simple 1/2 rythm with some triplets/ streams, etc
2017-10-10 17:31 Flevius: ok got it
2017-10-10 17:31 Seto Kousuke: and that's it I guess
2017-10-10 17:31 Seto Kousuke: if you need more checks in the future, just poke
2017-10-10 17:31 Seto Kousuke: :P
2017-10-10 17:31 Flevius: ok thank you very much <3