Assumption: maps with 1/6 and doublets i.e. 'overrated' pp features should and would contribute less SR and give less pp than they do now. 
If it means your pp (and the pp of others) may suffer a terrible, devastating, catastrophic, precipitous drop, would you opt for a better* pp system? 
I've actually had ideas before posting; the poll is just for fun. I haven't much progress, but I'll share a bit about what I'm up to. Just to show that I've been thinking / daydreaming:Raiden wrote:
But for now, unless they receive something they can work with properly, the efforts will go to first priority endeavors.
I personally can't come up with one since I am not proficient in neither maths nor coding, but anyone who is and wants this to be changed should start by doing stuff themselves.
I don't think this is the case. For example a long stream with bpm increasing will be harder than a long stream with bpm decreasing. Let's say from 120bpm to 200bpm (1/4). In both streams the hardest part is the 200bpm section, but in the first one when you reach it you're tired because of all the previous notes. Meanwhile the second one starts with the hard part when your hands aren't tired. Even though you will get tired faster by starting with the hard part, I think it is still easier to do.tkdLolly wrote:
... ON THE ASSUMPTION that reversed maps have the same difficulty).
I don't think taking an average value is the right way. You should take the hardest notes and weight them. For example the hardest note represents 50% of the whole beatmap difficulty, the second one, 25% and the third and forth one, 12.5% each. Pretty much the same way a user's global pp are computed. The current star rating has a similar process but uses intervals. This will help you avoiding difficulty drops by adding easy notestkdLolly wrote:
It should be noted that I ran into cases where adding notes actually decreased the difficulty since the model takes an average, and the addition of the note lowers that average, which reflects that this model is somewhat flawed or incomplete.
Interesting... :O I was trying to start from scratch so I didn't look for or look at the existing code, thanks for sharingCqfuj wrote:
I don't think taking an average value is the right way. You should take the hardest notes and weight them. For example the hardest note represents 50% of the whole beatmap difficulty, the second one, 25% and the third and forth one, 12.5% each. Pretty much the same way a user's global pp are computed. The current star rating has a similar process but uses intervals. This will help you avoiding difficulty drops by adding easy notes
When I first started thinking, I thought in terms of BPM i.e. for the sake of demonstration a 1/4 stream at BPM 120 for all eternity bears a standard unit of difficulty, and since every pair of adjacent notes can be described as a 1/4 interval in a specific BPM, we can scale the difficulty according to the BPM, something like that, which could also be applied to DT although OD isn't thoroughly thought throughEdgar_Figaro wrote:
I honestly feel like 1/6 and doublets are just fine for SR and the problem lies more in long streams of notes being undervalued in comparison. Extremely long patterns of 1/4 are much easier to notelock or fall behind on then quick 1/6 bursts and are harder. Now if there was a long stream of 1/6 this should still be considered hard as it would require you to essentially play the map at a higher bpm (a 20 note 1/4 stream on bpm 300=20 note 1/6 stream on bpm 200 and should equal the exact same SR)
I personally think Taiko needs a small boost so that it's on par with Standard. CTB and Mania need to be nerfed-Anhedonia- wrote:
looks like this is going to be an unpopular opinion but I think pp in general should be higher
I mean, you need to have SS on Kurokotei - Scattered Faith (the 10 stars version) + DTHD to get those 1k pp the ctb and mania players are getting :^)
Yes, people will find a way to abuse it, but it won't get to the point of having 8* maps that are actually 5*.Jaye wrote:
As much as I'd like a new SR system, the problem with it is that people will just find a way to abuse it once more; pp mapping never truly dies.
As for a new pp system, eh. You could make it more like other modes, so 7 star maps are actually worth something, but really it's not necessary unless you're an all-mode player since pp doesn't translate across modes.
Still, a revised SR/pp system would be nice and perhaps add a bit more fairness and polish to the mode.
I'm sorry, but do you even know how DT works? It just simulates the sped up map and adds OD, if there is something to be balanced, it's the SR rating, not DT. If you complain about how DT boosts OD, you'd also have to bitch about how HR also boosts OD. DT isn't to be blamed it's only the result of a trash SR and PP system.X a v y wrote:
I think that DT should also be weighted less, or rather some 1/4 songs should be weighted more. Either way, I personally feel like only DT scores and 1/6 pp maps are dominating the best performance of most players, especially when it comes to the top 300 players. Some 1/6 maps' star ratings are way too high, and it should be changed. Since mapper discovered the boost in SR once adding 1/6s, the ranked maps usually have condensed 1/6s in a bar. I'm not discouraging 1/6 patterns, in fact I feel that they can be fun, but it strikes me how much the SR changes once adding in the 1/6 patterns.
If I were to suffer a drop from 1/6 and DT weighing less, I am totally fine with that. In fact, I think it makes sense for my DT and 1/6 map scores to weigh less. I understand that some players that only play HD/HR will benefit from that, and I think it only makes sense that the abovementioned maps shouldn't be weighted much higher than the HD/HR plays.
TL;DR: The SR system for boosting from a NM to DT map is way too high, and 1/6 maps have SRs that are too high. I'm supporting a change in the pp system for Taiko.
That's nice math you've done. Tho as being said not average but weight values based on track duration would be better. Also you could try not to throw away colors but carefully experiment with bonus ratio values on multiple changes. Anyways I recommend to collect different kind of statistics from ranked sets beforehand - density, time\notes values, tracks durations etc. this will help you to get your reference points. huh.. wish i would less lazy and care more ):tkdLolly wrote:
So far, I've got different skillsets - you can also propose a skillset and we can discuss if this is a good idea or not. The list is:It also means that, using this system, you will have to account for SV speed (can be calculated easily as the product of SV change, base SV and BPM).
Stamina - I don't need to explain this one
Stream - How well you can keep combos on a stream
(Speed) - I defined it as a combo of Stamina and Stream, but this could be subject to change if there are good arguments in favour
Accuracy - Mainly defined by OD, this can be subject to change or be deleted
Reading - How well you can read different speeds; HR might break this in all honesty with every screen ratio. However, very low as much as very high scrolling speed will be hard while average will be treated as easy. "Comfort" values are not decided, but I suspect anything between 150 and 200 BPM is the most comfortable for most players.
Technical - Mainly for maps that use 1/6 + 1/4 streams, or anything related handswap-heavy patterns and doubles.
Overall - Will be the end value of the map: It is a combination of every other skillset rating which will be calculated to be as close as possible to reality.
Unmei Muma wrote:
Let's br real; the best way to have a well-balance Star Rating system is to break down a beatmap's different skillsets into atoms - something I've wanted to do with my old SSR project (that died quickly...)So far, I've got different skillsets - you can also propose a skillset and we can discuss if this is a good idea or not. The list is:It also means that, using this system, you will have to account for SV speed (can be calculated easily as the product of SV change, base SV and BPM).
Stamina - I don't need to explain this one
Stream - How well you can keep combos on a stream
(Speed) - I defined it as a combo of Stamina and Stream, but this could be subject to change if there are good arguments in favour
Accuracy - Mainly defined by OD, this can be subject to change or be deleted
Reading - How well you can read different speeds; HR might break this in all honesty with every screen ratio. However, very low as much as very high scrolling speed will be hard while average will be treated as easy. "Comfort" values are not decided, but I suspect anything between 150 and 200 BPM is the most comfortable for most players.
Technical - Mainly for maps that use 1/6 + 1/4 streams, or anything related handswap-heavy patterns and doubles.
Overall - Will be the end value of the map: It is a combination of every other skillset rating which will be calculated to be as close as possible to reality.
The "Overall" value is pretty much the end SR value. Imagine, on a 1-10 scale, a beatmap that has these values:
Stamina 9.73 | Stream 7.28 | Reading 5.58 | Technical 3.29 | Overall 6.31
You will get a beatmap with a star rating of 6.31 - but the breakdown will give you a more accurate outlook on how hard a map is. This is something that is currently used in the Etterna build of Stepmania, and so far, it is fairly accurate.
tl;dr : Break down a beatmap to its elemental skill set (stamina, stream, reading, tech) to have a more accurate star rating. it also may be adjusted as well with mods like HR or HD, as reading is affected by these mods.
KPS is directly correlating with stream: 20 kps is pretty much a 300 BPM stream. However, it's also a 300 BPM 1/2 doubles section - which asks for less speed and more technique.babysnakes wrote:
Stream should be a combo of speed and stamina.
Speed should be based of kps (but make sure to nerf doubles and triples).