Hello!

As I'm sure everyone here knows, nominating hybrid sets is a total pain in the ass for a few reasons. And hybrid sets currently allow for some dumb loopholes (a la cbcc, a map with about 30 std diffs and 2 taiko diffs, which was qualified with only one std bn icon) to get giant sets through without full checking.

There is an issue of clarity about what to do with hybrid sets. Do you need 2 bns? 3? 5? It isn't explained clearly other than the rules saying to "collaborate" with a nominator of that specific mode. This would mean, for a standard/taiko set (which I will use for the rest of the examples) I would mod the map, then decide that the standard part is ready for nomination, then ask Raiden, Surono, Arrival or whoever to check if the taiko part of the map is fine, and finally bubble it. With no necessary confirmation from them on the thread, and nothing saying "Hey this map is ok for rank!"

Additionally, the bn rules state that mode specific icons are not supposed to be used. After some discussion with okorin and jbh, this was intended to prevent bns from "yolo bubbling hybrid sets" since there is already a mode specific icon placed.

This is flawed for two reasons.
First, everyone checks for basic unrankable stuff like mp3 delay or unsnapped objects already, so at the rankable level a bn will not (should not) be bubbling a set with unrankable taiko diffs. And it's also a bit unreasonable to expect a standard nominator to check anything further than that, since they're not certified proficient in that mode.
Second, this places the responsibility of the alternate game mode diffs onto a nominator not proficient in that mode. With this score system thing upcoming, this means that a standard nominator can be punished for taiko diffs being low quality, even if he asks a taiko nominator first, because the taiko nominator has no accountability for confirming the quality of the taiko diffs.

The solution to these issues is already implemented on the old website, with mode specific icons. While these might disappear on the new one, this post is an argument for using them now and adding them to the new site in the future assuming that hybrids are rankable on modding v2.

Why do mode specific icons help?

First, they solve the issue of misplaced accountability. Holding a standard nominator responsible for taiko diff quality doesn't make sense, and punishing them for it in the case that they get popped would just make sure that nobody checks hybrid sets in the future.

Second, they avoid this loophole by which only 2 icons are necessary to get a hybrid set ranked and only one has to be standard. We can see numerous abuses of this getting stupid maps ranked, most notably CBCC.

My proposal is that mode specific icons be mandated for use in hybrid sets. Upon confirmation of one game mode's quality, be it standard or taiko or whatever, that mode's nominator will place their mode icon on it, assuming responsibility for the nomination. Then, the other mode nominator can bubble the map when their mode is suitable for ranking. Finally it will be qualified by a nominator of the mode with the most difficulties (which is normally standard due to the spread rules of hybrid sets).
Therefore, a hybrid set would need 2 + the amount of additional game mode. So a std taiko map needs 3 nominations, a std taiko mania needs 4 (with a taiko and a mania mode icon) and std taiko mania ctb needs 5.

I am well aware that we are about to be forced onto modding v2 exclusively, but please consider this for addition to the new site since atm you only need 2 nominations for any spread (afaik nobody has ranked a hybrid in mv2 yet anyway but yeah).

i'm all up for this.

We had a system where if the map was a hybrid, either the std or taiko bn will place the icon first, then the second bn would place the bubble, and the first bn would then place the heart afterwards, so there'd only be two BN's involved. The system worked pretty well.

I think the most BN's a hybrid set should ever need is 4. Two to place mode-specific icons only, and two to place the actual nomination icons. Mappers who allow hybrid sets should be aware that their maps will be slightly more difficult to rank than regular standard-only or taiko-only maps.


On the other hand though, there isn't really a lot that needs to be checked for taiko and ctb maps to confirm their rankability. And it doesn't take much to ask fellow ctb/taiko bns for their opinion on a hybrid map's quality either.

What I'm saying is, it is not harder to rank a taiko / std hybrid set than a standard only set. Since you only need 1 BN for the standard part of the set, and as you said it's easier to get a taiko icon / bubble having the 2 taiko diffs actually makes it much much EASIER to rank a set.

The idea is to avoid insufficient checking of a map. Since the taiko nominator presumably won't take into account the quality of the standard mapping (for example: vanity) then its basically just a free icon and you only need one BN to rank the set, even though you have significantly more standard diffs than taiko.

As such, my proposal is to simply increase the nomination count required. This would actually make it slightly more difficult, as you say, to rank a hybrid set. It would also avoid having giant standard sets get ranked with only one standard icon, which is a core issue of hybrid maps in my opinion.

Regarding the "ask fellow bns" thing; it's true that getting a taiko / ctb / whatever icon is not difficult. But, IF there is a system implemented that punishes / penalizes BNs for bubble pops and DQs, it is not fair to make standard BNs take responsibility for the nomination of a taiko map. Obviously if they're multi-mode then it makes sense, but there's like 4 multi mode BNs in the entire group so yeah. The mode specific icons would put the responsibility of a failed nomination on the BNs of the mode that caused the pop or DQ.