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Allow mappers to dynamically change circle size

posted
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23
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +46
Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter
Feature: Allow mappers to choose different circle sizes for different circles in the same beatmap.

It's not uncommon for me to think that some parts of a song fit well with smaller circle sizes and other parts of a song fit with larger circle sizes. Allowing mappers to dynamically change circle size allows them to express more nuances of the song in the map, thus make maps that fit better with the songs.

It's also just a very sensible way to give mappers more options to express themselves. Like giving a painter a new colour. Dynamic circle size feels like a very natural extension of the mapper's toolset. I can imagine many really good maps being created with this.
PieInOblivion
124 posts
Joined November 2014
PieInOblivion
While I see your point and agree that this could bring about some really cool ideas, I'm not sure I entirely agree. One of the many great things about Osu! is its consistency; Taking that away would mean to chane one of the very fundamental aspects of the standard Osu! mode. Please don't read this as a 'Change is bad' comment but I am sceptical.

This would also have drastic impacts on how difficulty star ratings would need to be calculated and read by players.
IsoSubjectPi
97 posts
Joined February 2014
IsoSubjectPi
I have thought about this before and I completely agree. Using circle size to represent different sounds or intensity levels in a song would be really cool. There's so much more mappers could do with aesthetics and movement using varying circle sizes.
T3rza
42 posts
Joined February 2017
T3rza
That would be pretty computationally expensive for the ST and PP systems though.
I think there should be some kind of separate Osu sandbox where you could do things like variable CS, variable AR, combine mods like EX and HR, etc. I have thought about this before and I completely agree. Using circle size to represent different sounds or intensity levels in a song would be really cool. There's so much more mappers could do with aesthetics and movement using varying circle sizes.
Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

Tr3sLeches wrote:

That would be pretty computationally expensive for the ST and PP systems though.
I think there should be some kind of separate Osu sandbox where you could do things like variable CS, variable AR, combine mods like EX and HR, etc. I have thought about this before and I completely agree. Using circle size to represent different sounds or intensity levels in a song would be really cool. There's so much more mappers could do with aesthetics and movement using varying circle sizes.
Not sure what ST is, and forgive me if I misunderstand computer science, but the PP calculation for scores on a map does not really require that much computer time. Especially since it's just a one-time calculation you do after each score. I wouldn't be surprised if my 4-ghz CPU could compute all the osu! scores across the world in realtime. Maybe adding variable CS to these computations would double the number of computations required, but since the cost is low anyway, doubling it won't matter so much. I shouldn't really be talking about this, though, since I don't know how PP is calculated and I don't know how to measure "number of computations"... I guess I should leave figuring that out to Peppy...
Shortthu
501 posts
Joined February 2016
Shortthu
actually... idk is it because i've mapped for a while or something but i think the good usage of SV and DS can do the job you mentioned in the first post pretty well, there's no need for circles to be smaller or bigger on different part of the song
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding
tbh this would change the game almost completely. I can't see this going through
EmeralX
EmeralX
I would like to see it, mainly because it could save Aspire.

but god i would not want to see decreasing size streams
Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

EmeralX wrote:

but god i would not want to see decreasing size streams
I assume that if decreasing-size streams is a universally unlikeable feature, then most mappers will probably shy away from making maps with them. Maybe they'll even make it a ranking criteria. Idk.
7ambda
2,589 posts
Joined January 2015
7ambda
You guys want innovation in mapping, yet you automatically say no to ideas that would refresh this game.
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris

F1r3tar wrote:

You guys want innovation in mapping, yet you automatically say no to ideas that would refresh this game.
This does not really have anything to do with innovation. Innovation happens when someone reinvents mapping within the existing set of rules.
This change would simply nuke a rule out of existence. "oh, my map can have different CS now, I'm so innovative", no, that is not how innovation works. And osu! would be a different game after such a change with no way to turn back.
Kondou-Shinichi
1,042 posts
Joined September 2015
Kondou-Shinichi
As a bad mapper myself I disagree with this thing,because HELL COULD IT BE FUCKING READABLE i mean like this is all cool but this is wayyyyyy to weird to the players imo

F1r3tar wrote:

You guys want innovation in mapping, yet you automatically say no to ideas that would refresh this game.
what the fuck are you saying lol
Mio Winter
311 posts
Joined April 2016
Topic Starter
Mio Winter

Kondou-Shinichi wrote:

As a bad mapper myself I disagree with this thing,because HELL COULD IT BE FUCKING READABLE i mean like this is all cool but this is wayyyyyy to weird to the players imo
Hm, I don't think it'd make it harder to read than it is currently. You read different CSes in the exact same way, so it'd just make it more aim-intensive during sections of smaller CS, not more read-intensive. I could be wrong.
7ambda
2,589 posts
Joined January 2015
7ambda

Kondou-Shinichi wrote:

what the fuck are you saying lol
You're just assuming variable CS wouldn't work because "this is way too weird to the players." Look, we have a lot of weird maps that are hard to read, as well as elaborate concepts to back them up. HanzeR and Skystar found new ways to expand horizons within mapping at the time: Miss You, Neuronecia, and dreamless wanderer for example. Even more recently, Hollow Wings's slider tick gimmick map. Sure, those concepts and patterns used were weird and hard to read at the time; today, they are widely accepted.

Yes, I know a completely different idea like variable CS differs from current editor innovation, but using "weird" or "hard to read" doesn't strongly justify why variable CS wouldn't work. My point is, don't assume an idea is bad, just because it seems weird or doesn't seem to conform to the game's standard ways.
pkhg
2,507 posts
Joined May 2010
pkhg
as a mapper i dont really see myself using this neither being implemented. mappers want more freedom in the editor but we should still take playability in consideration
Karen
2,864 posts
Joined August 2013
Karen
different circle size also reqires different ar/ settings, it would ruin the entire mapping concept. and osu lazer will be released soon, i don't think they will change any gameplay stuff at this point
Kondou-Shinichi
1,042 posts
Joined September 2015
Kondou-Shinichi

F1r3tar wrote:

Kondou-Shinichi wrote:

what the fuck are you saying lol
You're just assuming variable CS wouldn't work because "this is way too weird to the players." Look, we have a lot of weird maps that are hard to read, as well as elaborate concepts to back them up. HanzeR and Skystar found new ways to expand horizons within mapping at the time: Miss You, Neuronecia, and dreamless wanderer for example. Even more recently, Hollow Wings's slider tick gimmick map. Sure, those concepts and patterns used were weird and hard to read at the time; today, they are widely accepted.

Yes, I know a completely different idea like variable CS differs from current editor innovation, but using "weird" or "hard to read" doesn't strongly justify why variable CS wouldn't work. My point is, don't assume an idea is bad, just because it seems weird or doesn't seem to conform to the game's standard ways.
maybe if you start mapping you'll understand what's the wrong in this imo
Nao Tomori
osu! Alumni
3,106 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
i think it would be pretty cool thing to have, would allow for better contrast between parts. there could be guidelines to avoid all your complaints about unreadable blah blah lol. hopefully lazer allows for more interesting mechanics than what we have now :)
Lyawi
Global Moderator
3,611 posts
Joined February 2015
Lyawi
If I would have stars I would give you some
Pachiru
osu! Alumni
2,956 posts
Joined June 2013
Pachiru

Naotoshi wrote:

i think it would be pretty cool thing to have, would allow for better contrast between parts. there could be guidelines to avoid all your complaints about unreadable blah blah lol. hopefully lazer allows for more interesting mechanics than what we have now :)
I totally agree with this point of view
Striderin
278 posts
Joined May 2017
Striderin
Yes please. There are so many cool ideas that could be executed with variable cs.
Zaike
81 posts
Joined November 2012
Zaike
It's cool but the way it'll count the scores would (i think) make things more complicated.

But still.. it's cool.
-Aku
268 posts
Joined May 2018
-Aku

Mio Winter wrote:

Feature: Allow mappers to choose different circle sizes for different circles in the same beatmap.

It's not uncommon for me to think that some parts of a song fit well with smaller circle sizes and other parts of a song fit with larger circle sizes. Allowing mappers to dynamically change circle size allows them to express more nuances of the song in the map, thus make maps that fit better with the songs.

It's also just a very sensible way to give mappers more options to express themselves. Like giving a painter a new colour. Dynamic circle size feels like a very natural extension of the mapper's toolset. I can imagine many really good maps being created with this.


It could also be limited to small changes like for example if you choose cs5 for your map, you could only change the cs between 4 and 6, so that the changes aren't too drastic (range would be -1 from original to +1 from original)
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