Guest
home
beatmaps
rankings
community
store
help
forum
  1. Forums
  2. Beatmaps
  3. Mapping Discussion
  4. Ranking Criteria
  5. Finalized/Denied Amendments

[Guideline] New Combos

posted
Total Posts
21
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
Ekaru
Use new combos often and intelligently. Using a new combo every few beats wouldn't make sense, but you also want to avoid long combos that continue for many measures. New combos should also be used to show changes in spacing such as jumps.
That last sentence?

I'm sorry, but it's bad advice for today's mappers. Nobody nowadays goes, "Oh hey, there's a New Combo... there might be a jump here!" In fact, I haven't seen anybody use NCs for jumps in years, because it doesn't help anybody and just makes your map look ugly.

Please delete it, because seriously, nobody does that anymore. All you're doing here is making it so some new mapper will get a lot of "Remove NC's" mod posts because they followed this guideilne. ;P
Last edited by RandomJibberish , edited 1 time in total.
Raging Bull
2,809 posts
Joined June 2010
Raging Bull
Well I did use it on my current map for speed changes (1x to 1.5x) But I really don't think we need it for jumps. I tend to read with AR anyways. NC or no NC I wouldn't get confused.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
Ekaru

Raging Bull wrote:

Well I did use it on my current map for speed changes (1x to 1.5x) But I really don't think we need it for jumps. I tend to read with AR anyways. NC or no NC I wouldn't get confused.
The problem is that there are so many NCs in a map that they don't tell you anything. If they were *only* used for jumps/speedchanges, then sure, but because NCs are found so frequently in a map, they're useless as far as reading goes.
OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock
I think it makes it look nicer, not ugly. Then you don't have a bunch of those white little circle things protruding everywhere.

But of course, this is mainly for certain kinds of jumps. Mainly when you switch from notes spaced 1.0 apart and all of a sudden there's a note at the same speed but with 1.5 distance.
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn
I agree with Ekaru. That's all I have to say on this issue, really...
Larto
4,128 posts
Joined June 2008
Larto
Fully agreed with Ekaru; New combos should be placed in sync to the MUSIC, and not to make the map more playable or to excuse unfitting jumps or bad spacing. Jumps should be fitting to the music and intuitive anyways, you don't need a new combo to indicate them if you're doing it right.
Mismagius
9,313 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius

Larto wrote:

Fully agreed with Ekaru; New combos should be placed in sync to the MUSIC, and not to make the map more playable or to excuse unfitting jumps or bad spacing. Jumps should be fitting to the music and intuitive anyways, you don't need a new combo to indicate them if you're doing it right.
Exactly. That's why we have, maybe, the approach circles?

If you can't read jumps not even by the approach circles, there is something wrong with the map - either you're doing it very wrong or the AR is too low.
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish
I agree with Ekaru. The reason jumps happen on new combos is because a good place for a new combo is often a good place for a jump, but people have kinda twisted it the other way round :/
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
Generally speaking, a newcombo should be on a long white tick in roughly 80% of today's 4/4 music (and, arguably, on most other measures)

exceptions to this come far and wide, but a very, very important part of mapping is noting that the long white tick is a very important part of a map and how it plays, and that having a "click" (slider start or circle) there is very important for reinforcing the consistent beat while playing - and that manipulation of this can cause very good flow if done right.


saying "new combos = jumps" or that "jumps go well where new combos should go" are over-generic generalizations and should be avoided at all costs to avoid new mappers from misunderstanding how they work.
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish
I wasn't suggesting the guideline was flipped over - I was just pointing out why the whole new combo = jump thing may have come about. That sentence in the guideline shouldn't be there at all.
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
it should be even prohibited actually.

New Combos on jumps make the map even less readable, especially with the Flashlight mod, because you haven't even got the followpoints to follow to read jumps.

So just delete that sentence, it is nosense.
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl
New combos should be used in random and unexpected jumps, not in normal jumps.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
So sad that I didn't post things much here when I was a MAT :(

Anyway, I agree that new combos isn't a good way to identify jumps.
IMO jumps should be recognizable by the music itself.
In fact, some people justify unintuitive jumps by placing new combos and saying that by the very fact there's a new combo, it's fine.
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi

eldnl wrote:

New combos should be used in random and unexpected jumps, not in normal jumps.
well, random jumps should be condemned by guidelines ( but not prohibited by rules ), because they actually aren't made for a music game, but in some case they do make a map funnier.
Soaprman
1,392 posts
Joined January 2008
Soaprman

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

it should be even prohibited actually.

New Combos on jumps make the map even less readable, especially with the Flashlight mod, because you haven't even got the followpoints to follow to read jumps.

So just delete that sentence, it is nosense.
This is a good point. I can't say followpoints are something I have ever been conscious of when mapping or when playing but they are still there and they do help, even if they're not something you're really aware of while playing.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

eldnl wrote:

New combos should be used in random and unexpected jumps, not in normal jumps.
Excuse me, what? Random and unexpected? since when has something random and unexpected been playable at all.

I agree with Ekaru, instead we should be using that jumps are used when they fit, and most of the time they can be read pretty fine.
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
Use new combos often and intelligently. Using a new combo every few beats wouldn't make sense, but you also want to avoid long combos that continue for many measures. New combos should also be used to show changes in spacing such as jumps.
Then in need to be like this, don't you agree?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I'd remove the "Often" part, normally Insanes can have a lot of notes in 1 measure and as such end up having combos go higher, but i agree that new combos should be used intelligently, we dont want this happening again now do we?
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar

Sakura Hana wrote:

I'd remove the "Often" part, normally Insanes can have a lot of notes in 1 measure and as such end up having combos go higher, but i agree that new combos should be used intelligently, we dont want this happening again now do we?
Oh yes, that would be very bad :3
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
it isn't something that do happen often though, and for the fact it is a guideline it can be considered good as now. You won't NC every note for all time, right?
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
WAAT? That totally shouldn't be there, so I deleted it.

We already came to a consensus that it's the other way around. New combos and jumps both make the most sense at logical breaks in the music. Marking a poorly placed jump with a poorly placed new combo only makes things worse.
Please sign in to reply.

New reply

0
1 / 21