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scrollspeed and reading

posted
Total Posts
19
Roricon
185 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Roricon
I recently started playing 4k mania and I plan to make this my main game mode now.
I do have some questions regarding scrollspeed and reading and would like some tips so that I don't create any bad habbits while learning mania.
Atm 30 scrollspeed is the easiest for me to play with anything below 28 I just overtap everything(if I play with 26 I get ~3-6% acc less on my plays). The thing is that I don't feel like i'm actually reading maps when i play with 30 scrollspeed and am just reacting to notes. So I wonder if I should force myself to learn a lower scroll speed like 24 or 26 or if it is fine to stay with 30 even though i feel that i'm not reading the patterns when I do this.

Some other things that I've noticed is that my hit error on average looks like this: -25, +15 and never evenly spread, not sure if this is common or not?
And to test if I was actually listening to the rythm I played a handful of maps both with and without sound(with scrollspeed = 30) and the results were on avg 0.5-1 acc less if i played without.

Any help is appreciated.
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
-25 to +15 means you're playing on average 5ms early. This will negatively impact your accuracy since more of your hits will end up being 200's instead of 300/320's due to the 5ms offset you've got.

To correct this you either need to adjust your global offset or your judgement location.

As for scrollspeed, that's honestly personal preference. Some players simply can't handle high scroll speeds, while others can't handle low speeds. Staiain, for example, cannot handle low scroll speeds at all. Once it slows down too much he simply can't remember the notes for long enough to hit the patterns properly. I have the same problem, but in my case things are worse because I also use FL to reduce the amount of notes on the screen, and once the notes pass the bottom of the visibility window (I play downscroll) if they're too slow I just can't remember the pattern any more.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
The most important thing is to have fun.

If you're not having fun, you probably shouldn't play at all.
Last edited by Aqo , edited 1 time in total.
Full Tablet
2,543 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet
Adjusting your offset based on the hiterrors is not reliable if your Unstable Rate is too high (which probably is with -25ms/15ms hit errors).

The formula ((average late errors)+(average early errors))*0.5 assumes the amount of late hits and early hits is the same, and that the distribution of errors is uniform inside each group of late or early hits.
(This distribution has -5ms average error with -25ms/15ms early/late average errors, and an expected unstable rate of 232.737).


If one assumes the distribution is uniform, then the formula is (average late errors)+(average early errors).
(So -10ms with -25ms/15ms early/late average errors, with an expected unstable rate of 230.94).


If one assumes the distribution is a Gaussian, the formula is approximately:
((avg late errors)+(avg early errors))*Pi/(2 (-2 + Pi)) = ((avg late errors)+(avg early errors))*1.37597
(Approximation valid when the average error is not too big)
A rule of thumb to check if the distribution was close to Gaussian is checking if the unstable rate on the play is close to:
((avg late errors)-(avg early errors))*5*Sqrt[Pi/2] = ((avg late errors)-(avg early errors))*6.26657)

(So ~-13.5ms with -25ms/15ms early/late average errors, with an expected unstable rate of 240.25)
NightNarumi
254 posts
Joined May 2014
NightNarumi
Everyone has their own prefered scrollspeed and its highly subjective on which scrollspeed you need to play.
Experiment a bit and maybe fiddle a bit with the hitposition of your skin to your likings.
I dont like to change the universal offset by the way. I'll try to get used to the offset and play accordingly.
ReTLoM
183 posts
Joined January 2013
ReTLoM
Scrollspeed also depends on your Skin i have a Skin where i need to play 26 and on a other one i can play 31 ?_?
johnmedina999
296 posts
Joined October 2016
johnmedina999

ReTLoM wrote:

Scrollspeed also depends on your Skin i have a Skin where i need to play 26 and on a other one i can play 31 ?_?
To be more specific, it depends on your columnsize.
ReTLoM
183 posts
Joined January 2013
ReTLoM
and hitposition
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
I'd say columnsize makes more impact than hitposition. Then again, I play with columns at 22/28 with FL and no idea what my hitposition is set to.
Edgar_Figaro
919 posts
Joined May 2015
Edgar_Figaro
Why does everyone play with so fast of scroll speed. When I first started playing 12 was most comfortable for me. I've been raising it as I get better and the density starts to become an issue. Still even with having raised it multiple times I am only at 26 still lower than OP's 30.

(26 would have been too fast for my brain to even comprehend when I was new)
abraker
Global Moderator
8,327 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

Why does everyone play with so fast of scroll speed. When I first started playing 12 was most comfortable for me. I've been raising it as I get better and the density starts to become an issue. Still even with having raised it multiple times I am only at 26 still lower than OP's 30.

(26 would have been too fast for my brain to even comprehend when I was new)
I do 34. It's columns width. The wider the columns, the easier it is to play higher scroll speed because the length of the field in which the notes fall is shorter.
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

Why does everyone play with so fast of scroll speed. When I first started playing 12 was most comfortable for me. I've been raising it as I get better and the density starts to become an issue. Still even with having raised it multiple times I am only at 26 still lower than OP's 30.

(26 would have been too fast for my brain to even comprehend when I was new)
Believe it or not, increasing scroll speed is very easy. You can only increase speed by so much at a time, but if you wait till you are completely adjusted and increase again, and then again, etc. very soon you can play at "inhuman" scroll speeds just fine.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,327 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Bobbias wrote:

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

Why does everyone play with so fast of scroll speed. When I first started playing 12 was most comfortable for me. I've been raising it as I get better and the density starts to become an issue. Still even with having raised it multiple times I am only at 26 still lower than OP's 30.

(26 would have been too fast for my brain to even comprehend when I was new)
Believe it or not, increasing scroll speed is very easy. You can only increase speed by so much at a time, but if you wait till you are completely adjusted and increase again, and then again, etc. very soon you can play at "inhuman" scroll speeds just fine.
I wish this can be true. Yea I can do 40 up to 2*, but streaming on 40? Not even after 2 years of trying to do it at least on 36, and I managed to do 36 only a handful of times.
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
Well of course, everyone has their limits where you hit a wall in terms of scroll speed, but generally that's high enough there's not much need to go higher. Generally I'd say if you can read 30+, you're good to go and don't need to go higher. That already gives you a pretty good reduction in note density unless you're playing stuff at 25+ notes per second.
[Crz]Player
228 posts
Joined September 2011
[Crz]Player
:thinking:
Roricon
185 posts
Joined May 2013
Topic Starter
Roricon
well this is what my skin looks like in case anyone was wondering:
SPOILER
Thanks for all the replies I feel like i'm improving at a steady rate and my hit error is starting to look better so I guess I just have to keep playing more :3 I decided to keep my scrollspeed and atm play with 29-31
NightNarumi
254 posts
Joined May 2014
NightNarumi
;)
Chez
59 posts
Joined August 2014
Chez
I actually ask myself this question all the time. I don't really know if there is a limit on how high you should go before you start to have any real drawbacks though. I think it's just dependent on the skin you're using. When I was using the O2Jam U skin, the most comfortable scroll speed that I could play was at 30. On Jhlee's skin, I could play up to 35, but this was mostly to cope with having the judgement line in the depths of hell - I didn't know how to mess with skin.ini at all then. Now, I removed the bottom stage and hit lighting and I can read up to 39. My skin is pretty similar to how Akise's skin looks when he played Dignity on 40 scroll actually.

Anyway, I highly suggest not switching scroll speeds too erratically. You'll just get very confused. If you want to go higher, do it gradually. If you ever decide to play at different key modes though, you might have to change scroll speed. This is normal as far as I know.
Gracie-
2 posts
Joined March 2016
Gracie-
I quit this game so many times - at least 4 or 5. But before I used to play on a very low scroll speed (21). I took a really long break and now I can comfortably read 28 to 29 - probably will never go up to 30. My scores got a lot better because I wasn’t over tapping as much.

Play what’s comfortable.
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