understandable, have a nice day.
woah what year is this againEphemeral wrote:
Due to the aforementioned issues and their severity and potential impact on play, this set has been unranked and will not return to qualified status until its timing and snapping issues have been fixed and verified by no less than three people.
Scores that have already been set will be lost.
ARGENTINE DREAM wrote:
The main problem is that this is a map with an odd time snap that makes SR calculation fail miserably at its job. Basically, if this map is ranked, then anyone can use odd time snaps to make pp rain rankable maps and therefore, that will support the idea that grinding pp easy is better than having fun and playing quality maps.
isn't this a hint that the star rating formula should be looked into?Ephemeral wrote:
It also, as ARGENTINE DREAM states, shaves more than a 1.3 stars off the map's overall difficulty as calculated by the score processor.
That is hugely significant.
568,555.555555555556,4,2,0,100,1,0
11695,555.555555555556,4,2,0,100,1,0
49485,555.555555555556,4,2,0,100,1,0
76160,555.555555555556,4,2,0,100,1,0
87264,555.555555555556,4,2,0,100,1,0
Did Skylish make the cut himself or was a TV-size cut made by someone else? Because the cut may have exasterbated the timing issues in the full length song.Ephemeral wrote:
In Skylish's defense, the original full-length Ishukan track is absolutely fucked as far as timing goes as well, so there's no error on his part from attempting to approximate it. We just need to use the "splice" method to reset the bpm before major verses or places where it begins to drift in this case, as the drift seems to be very inconsistent even across the source material. Some weird production stuff going on there.
but ravioli ravioli, please dont lewd the dragon loliGreenshell wrote:
Drama in a taiko thread \:D/
since this got unranked, is there any reason to have "ravioli" in tags other than for the meme?
and yeah about the timing you should gather more opinions if you're still willing to push this forward
8bit <3 3Bonsai wrote:
timing is a happy thing
now to cut myself. φ(^ω^*)ノ✂
On a sidenote, none of this would be a problem if you mapped this way better version of the song too
yeah it was unexpected to seeyea wrote:
the map played perfectly fine in my eyes, I am surprised this got "deranked" out of all maps
the pp system is mostly broken because the star rating system is broke. the only reason this is a pp map in its current state is because it's 5.63* and 7.88* with DT. there wouldn't even be a discussion on this if star rating made sense for this type of snapping.ARGENTINE DREAM wrote:
Star Rating system is not accurate and needs to be fixed? Yes. Still that is not enough reason to let the pp system to be broke.
there are plenty of ranked maps that play at a much lower star rating, but have one or two difficult spots that raise the star rating extremely high. this is true in both standard and taiko. i'll point out a few recent examples:ARGENTINE DREAM wrote:
Others pointed out that are other overweighted maps... Do they make a difference of 1.5 stars? I don't think so, that's the main concern about this map
You mean: "the main reason of the pp system being broken is the SR calculation". Yes, that doesn't mean the PP system itself is broken by the most part because a vast majority of maps work well according to both SR and PP.Catgirl wrote:
the pp system is mostly broken because the star rating system is broke
There would... Didn't you read the rest of the thread? The concerns about the snapping started in the modding stage. Even if SR worked well with this kind of snapping, the music theory backing up the fact this shouldn't be mapped this way would still exist and there's people that's gonna point it out.Catgirl wrote:
there wouldn't even be a discussion on this if star rating made sense for this type of snapping.
Here the SR reflects the difficulty of the song, you know, that section in the middle is actually part of the song. If the HP is set correctly, you could probably fail the song just by missing notes at that section. Players whose limit is 4.3 stars wouldn't get a decent score.Catgirl wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1330403 - this is a nearly 6 minute map, if you remove three streams in the middle of the map then you have a 5 minute map that is 4.32*. the entire map is 6.2*, but if you can play a few difficult streams, even with a couple misses, you're getting extreme amounts of pp for a 4.32* map.
I've heard about flams giving extra pp, but still, flams are resources that are pretty much used in drumming (and in the original TnT), also there's the difficulty on being consistent over them... Probably still too much SR boost.Catgirl wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/690886 - another 6+ minute map, if you remove a total of 15 notes in the 1/8 doubles section, making them single notes instead, the star rating drops from 7.08* to 5.97*. and 1/8 doubles at that speed aren't hard to play, even though they're kinda easy to shitmiss on. it's basically a free star rating increase and thus a free pp increase.
Do you really think that "only difference" is just a little difference? Comparing these maps to Ishukan Communication is just biased.Catgirl wrote:
the only difference between this map and the two i mentioned above are that those maps have the star rating increased by sections that are difficult, and this map just has star rating increased due to the awkward snapping
Because the calculation works over musical notation, not over "space length/ms distance" and other kind of stuff which is more mathematical than musical.Catgirl wrote:
the map isn't technically any harder on 3/16 than 1/6. it should be easier on 3/16 because the doubles are slower and farther apart on 3/16 than on 1/6
ftfySurono wrote:
yea wrote:
yeahyea it was unexpected to see
That's what the pp system is, the most accurate way the developers found to make a fair calculation of players skills. Therefore, when the word "RANKED" comes in play, the way it helps this system to calculate players skills is the most important thing to have on account, even if failing at this purpose is or not the mapper's fault.I only half-agree with this and I'll go point by point, though the first third of this is actually true: pp was meant to make a fair ranking. However, the problem isn't its result, but the combination of Star Rating, OD, length (in NOTECOUNT and not duration), mods and everything else playing towards the final result.
Star Rating system is not accurate and needs to be fixed? Yes. Still that is not enough reason to let the pp system to be broke.
Others pointed out that are other overweighted maps... Do they make a difference of 1.5 stars? I don't think so, that's the main concern about this map
Mappers should take that on account, they are making a notechart for an already established game system. That means the mapper can do as much as experimental maps as they like, but they most probably are not going to be suitable for the game.
Star Rating system is not accurate and needs to be fixed? Yes. Still that is not enough reason to let the pp system to be broke.Everyone's been yelling about this for more time than you'd think! There are many examples of maps that have been overrated while other have been underrated - snapping plays a huge part in this, and star rating is the main reason why pp is so broken: it is absolutely overrating doubles, 24+16th complex streams, patterns that comes in packs of 3 like ddk ddk ddk...., but fast stamina maps have their SR ridiculously low for how hard they are. Case in point: compare The Limit Does Not Exist [Limit Break] (7.50 stars, 260 BPM with huge deathstreams) and Last Fortune (pocotan remix) [Inner Oni] (7.56 stars, 176 BPM with 24+16ths). Nearly everything goes in favour of the latter map: more notes, more stars; but lower OD gives a lower acuracy bonus. It did not stop players from getting HDDTFCs on it, while TLDNE probably still does not have >20 nomod FCs.
Mappers should take that on accountThey should not take something that broken into account. Those who think SR has to be taken into account are lying to themselves. There are people who are abusing it, it's their problem; but the honest ones who just want to make a good map and can't get that ranked because the automated difficulty calculator is extremely broken are the ones that lose. There are instances of maps where the Oni is deemed easier than its lower difficulties, because its lower difficulties uses different patterns that are processed as "harder". Anything containing doubles will be shot up by it. Same goes for an innocent ddk ddk ddk.
Others pointed out that are other overweighted maps... Do they make a difference of 1.5 stars? I don't think soI think so. I'll be talking about Last Fortune again, as the map without any single 1/6 only is 5.15. a 2.41 star difference. The 24+16ths aren't even that hard as it isn't awkwardly handswapping.
a vast majority of maps work well according to both SR and PP.A vast majority of maps being pretty much anything that doesn't go out of the ordinary. Of course this will work, because all other existing cases are ridiculous. 360 BPM with 1/4? Boom, 7.65 stars. 178 BPM with a lot of 24+16ths streams? Boom, 9.29 stars. See the problem...?
fkfyNifty wrote:
ftfySuroyea wrote:
yeahyea it was unexpected to see
Unmei Muma wrote:
About the map:
its fuckin 3/16