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[added] [resolved] A new idea about the Bubble/Ranking system.

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +0
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
NatsumeRin
"People start to mod after the map get ranked."

Well let's think about it, the step before rank is "bubble", but who wants to touch a bubbled map? Players won't play it because there's no ranked score, Modders won't mod it because it's modded by a MAT/BAT and the quality should be good enough (not to mention if the MAT/BAT make some mistake during modding). So until a BAT check the bubbled map and help it get ranked, it stays at a "no one want to touch" status.

My idea is, let player give feedback start from the time when a map get bubbled, here's some steps to do:

SPOILER
1. Make a new category "bubbled" shown to players just as "ranked" or "approved", there won't be a scoreboard for it, but players can save the local score, and the score would be submitted right after the map get ranked. (If there's no change made to the map).

2. Since it gives ranked score (though later) and is shown in a more obvious place (we can assume it's about the same value as "approved" to players, much better than now), players will pay more attention to it. Also because it gives ranked score, players tend to want it keeps unchanged (if a map is changed then players have to update it to a new ver, the local score will be wiped) UNLESS he finds there's a big mistake in the map and he has to say something about it. That's just the FEEDBACK we want and need for current system.

3. If the mapper decide to change something because of the feedbacks, the MAT who bubbled it should recheck it as soon as possible. If they're just tiny fixes, a BAT could still directly rank it.

4. In this system, if a "bubbled" map reaches a certain play counts (let's say, 5000) and no really negative comments are made to the map, we can just assume that's a rankable map could be automatically ranked in 24 hours (it probably means 500 or more players have tested the map). This will also prevent things like "damn i have a 2 months old bubble". Also, to prevent fast ranking, bubbled maps need to reach a certain minimum play counts (maybe 500) to be ranked.

5. I don't know how current system works exactly so if there are some troubles have to deal with, plz just discuss here.

Edit: Some changes according to ziin's post:

Let's set a "bubbled" forum and if a map is bubbled, then popped because of tiny fixes, it could stay in the "bubbled" forum. If a really big problem happens to the map, it could be sent back to pending by a MAT/BAT.
Last edited by NatsumeRin , edited 2 times in total.
Waryas
Waryas
This is definitely an interesting approach.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
The only reason people play ranked maps is for the score, and the only reason people complain when a map gets unranked is because they lost their score.

If we start recording scores for bubbles, or add a 2nd step to it (proto-rank?) this would get people to play a map for the score. If there's a terrible problem with the map, it will get sent back to pending and scores will be deleted. This is no different from the current system, however, just a bit of a name change to help the idiots who think their score on a less than week old map is permanent.

The reason nobody wants to touch a bubbled map is because they are hard to mod. Modders typically spend a lot of time on a map, and the minor suggestions they come up with are not usually used because it would either remove the bubble or they're very minor.

People would still only play the ranked maps.
Waryas
Waryas
Another suggestion:

Add a category just for bubbled map. They'll be played more this way.
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
NatsumeRin

ziin wrote:

The only reason people play ranked maps is for the score, and the only reason people complain when a map gets unranked is because they lost their score.
The first point, for most time it's really true. Second one, sometimes not, but it's not what i want to discuss here.

ziin wrote:

If we start recording scores for bubbles, or add a 2nd step to it (proto-rank?) this would get people to play a map for the score. If there's a terrible problem with the map, it will get sent back to pending and scores will be deleted. This is no different from the current system, however, just a bit of a name change to help the idiots who think their score on a less than week old map is permanent.
Maybe as you said, but in my opinion, people who want to touch map in "bubbled" category is like people who play "approved" maps, they want more from the map itself than the score of it. You can also call it a "proto-rank" since what this system try to do is attract a small group (compared to the whole community) to test the the map before it get ranked. They has better skill levels and more experience, and they definitely find most of the unranking issues in current system. People who only care about ranked score still won't play "bubbled" maps because it's easy to be wiped. This is the difference.


ziin wrote:

The reason nobody wants to touch a bubbled map is because they are hard to mod. Modders typically spend a lot of time on a map, and the minor suggestions they come up with are not usually used because it would either remove the bubble or they're very minor.
It's true. So here's a way trying to solve it, make the bubbled maps still active but not like they're just died there.
Gabi
2,554 posts
Joined December 2008
Gabi

ziin wrote:

The reason nobody wants to touch a bubbled map is because they are hard to mod. Modders typically spend a lot of time on a map, and the minor suggestions they come up with are not usually used because it would either remove the bubble or they're very minor.
This is what i hate about todays mappers. They have a shit attitude when all you're doing is trying to help them. If a map is bubbled, even if you find something wrong in gameplay with it, most mappers will go "No, i don't want to change it and pop the bubble" because they think that bubble=perfect! even though a few days later they will get a BAT to mod it and the bubble will eventually get popped.

I don't really think that there's any real problem with the current system, if i would blame anyone, i would blame the stubborn people.

EDIT: OT: while you're idea seems somewhat interesting, it also has some large annoying flaws aswell.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
If i knew which bubbled maps have gameplay issues i would help get them fixed, do you have any idea how many bubbled maps are there?

If you really think a bubble deserves to be popped to be a gameplay issue call a MAT or BAT to check the bubbled map, if it is indeed a gameplay issue it's very likely the bubble is gonna get popped, and the MAT or BAT shouldnt have any problem returning the bubble when it's fixed.

I'm always open to check them if you think there are problems in bubbles, but be advised that i will use my own judgement to determine if it's enough to pop the bubble or not.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
Here's a thought:

when someone bubbles a map, it gets moved to its own forum, and scores are recorded. If it gets popped, it stays in that forum, but doesn't have the bubble.

This creates a clear separation from maps that need modding attention (pending) and maps that need expert modding attention (bubbled).

This would let you easily sort through bubbles/maps that need rebubbling. It also puts my map on the first page of pending, since there's only 1 map with a higher star priority.

If we add a second category for the map spotlights at the top: "Highest Rated, Most Played, Newest Ranked, Newest Bubble" it would get these maps much more play/mod time.

However I didn't really make myself clear before so I will now:

Anything we do will function exactly like the current system, or add another layer of approval on top of it. Ranked maps currently have a grace period of one week in which they can be unranked and made changes on. There should be no surprise when a map is unranked for various issues within that time period. If you want to call that grace period something different, then fine, but know that it doesn't change anything other than tricking people into thinking a certain way.

I am neutral on the whole thing. I fully understand that people do not always think logically, so changing around some words is an easy way to trick them into playing a map when they wouldn't normally do so (which is essentially what we are doing now).
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
Even if we add a system like you suggested, we would have to add a set time before bubbled maps can be ranked.
Bubbled maps can take as long as 2 months and as fast as an hour for it to be ranked.
I doubt an hour would be sufficient enough to check for errors that may not be seen my the BAT who would rank it.
h3k1ru
osu! Alumni
1,910 posts
Joined March 2010
h3k1ru

Gabi wrote:

most mappers will go "No, i don't want to change it and pop the bubble" because they think that bubble=perfect!
lol no

"it took me so long time \ way to find an active MAT and get my map bubbled, there no way i will pop it by myself"

^thats what they think about
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

h3k1ru wrote:

Gabi wrote:

most mappers will go "No, i don't want to change it and pop the bubble" because they think that bubble=perfect!
lol no

"it took me so long time \ way to find an active MAT and get my map bubbled, there no way i will pop it by myself"

^thats what they think about
Hmm this gives me a new idea for a modding queue
Gabi
2,554 posts
Joined December 2008
Gabi

h3k1ru wrote:

Gabi wrote:

most mappers will go "No, i don't want to change it and pop the bubble" because they think that bubble=perfect!
lol no

"it took me so long time \ way to find an active MAT and get my map bubbled, there no way i will pop it by myself"

^thats what they think about
Yea sure that aswell, but that's not an excuse to not fix your map. If someone has got a bubbled map, then the person who bubbled that map should have a responsibility to recheck and rebubble the map if needed, however usually the BAT/MAT never rechecks it, and the mapper needs to constantly bother the BAT/MAT to recheck the map, which is really annoying for both the BAT/MAT and the mapper.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
The problem with this change is that it would discourage people from making minor mods to bubbled maps. If the mapper makes minor changes, they'll take heat from all the players who had scores on that map.
marshallracer
1,601 posts
Joined December 2010
marshallracer

mm201 wrote:

The problem with this change is that it would discourage people from making minor mods to bubbled maps. If the mapper makes minor changes, they'll take heat from all the players who had scores on that map.
but then again, that's a reason to play that map again, seeing what they're still able to reach after changes were made
dkun
osu! Alumni
4,486 posts
Joined August 2009
dkun

marshall_racer wrote:

mm201 wrote:

The problem with this change is that it would discourage people from making minor mods to bubbled maps. If the mapper makes minor changes, they'll take heat from all the players who had scores on that map.
but then again, that's a reason to play that map again, seeing what they're still able to reach after changes were made
a reason for the player and possibly mapper to be frustrated and to probably never try it again, you mean.

no go for me, would cause more chaos compared to the system now.
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
NatsumeRin
@mm201:

SPOILER

mm201 wrote:

The problem with this change is that it would discourage people from making minor mods to bubbled maps. If the mapper makes minor changes, they'll take heat from all the players who had scores on that map.
Yes, it encourage much more people to check bubbled maps but as you said (mainly gameplay issue), but discourage minor changes to a map. However, the current unranking hurts too much to both the mapper and players (for their scores, whatever). So i think a much faster "test team" system may fits better here. Those players who play "bubbled" maps, as i said, should be somewhat like players who play "approved" maps, they pay more attention to the map itself (but now they won't spend time to play bubbled maps) than the score it gives. So they won't mind the score that much (compared to the common players), and we can know it much earlier if there's a unranking issue.

For the "discourage minor changes to a map", well for now, no modders want to touch a bubbled map (in almost every queue we can find a "no bubbled map" rule), and players don't mind the minor things that much. So the only thing changed is when a BAT is coming to mod a map, rank it after some small fixes, the score will still be wiped. But i think the players who play "bubbled" maps should be aware of it. At last, it's still players' choice which kind of map they really play, this system is just trying to attract them to "bubbled" maps to prevent more unranking/mod after rank things.

But yes this is probably a flaw of this system

@NoHItter:

SPOILER

NoHItter wrote:

Even if we add a system like you suggested, we would have to add a set time before bubbled maps can be ranked.
Bubbled maps can take as long as 2 months and as fast as an hour for it to be ranked.
I doubt an hour would be sufficient enough to check for errors that may not be seen my the BAT who would rank it.
This is easy, add a limit of minimum play counts (maybe 500) and a maximum play counts (maybe 5000) in "bubbled" category.
Even BAT's are too lazy (they sometimes are), the maps in "bubbled" category and reaches the maximum play counts for 24 hours will be automatically ranked.

And to prevent the fast ranking thing, a 500 play counts is needed. As i know for the ranked maps, it spends at least 30mins to get to that number but for "bubbled" maps, it will probably be longer. Also if we use "appoved" as the example, 500 pcs will take about half day. Let's pick a number between them, let's say 6 hours, and that should be enough to check.

@Sakura Hana:

SPOILER

Sakura Hana wrote:

If i knew which bubbled maps have gameplay issues i would help get them fixed, do you have any idea how many bubbled maps are there?
Do you understand my idea, hey? People won't touch bubbled maps now, this feature aims to encourage people to do so. There are usually about 30-80 bubbles yeah.

Sakura Hana wrote:

If you really think a bubble deserves to be popped to be a gameplay issue call a MAT or BAT to check the bubbled map, if it is indeed a gameplay issue it's very likely the bubble is gonna get popped, and the MAT or BAT shouldnt have any problem returning the bubble when it's fixed.

Sure it's correct but just useless here, the problem is how to get people play bubbled maps, not telling them again and again they could call a MAT/BAT to pop them.

Sakura Hana wrote:

I'm always open to check them if you think there are problems in bubbles, but be advised that i will use my own judgement to determine if it's enough to pop the bubble or not.
So hell yeah at the end you just speak out again those correct but useless thing could you please read before start to type anything?

@Gabi:

SPOILER

Gabi wrote:

Yea sure that aswell, but that's not an excuse to not fix your map. If someone has got a bubbled map, then the person who bubbled that map should have a responsibility to recheck and rebubble the map if needed, however usually the BAT/MAT never rechecks it, and the mapper needs to constantly bother the BAT/MAT to recheck the map, which is really annoying for both the BAT/MAT and the mapper.
That's probably just the problem in the current system, the MAT/BAT who should take responsibility could be lazy or just inactive at that time, so the bubbled-popped period needs to go again and again. Here in the "bubbled" category, MAT/BAT could all pay attention to the map with negative comments/unranking issues, and rank maps that reaches a certain point, try to make all MAT/BAT's activity in a more standard way. You could still do some nearly fast rank but you need to reach a minimum play counts limit as i said in the reply to NoHItter's. (The numbers should be tested and then decided).

@ziin:

SPOILER

ziin wrote:

Here's a thought:

when someone bubbles a map, it gets moved to its own forum, and scores are recorded. If it gets popped, it stays in that forum, but doesn't have the bubble.

This creates a clear separation from maps that need modding attention (pending) and maps that need expert modding attention (bubbled).

This would let you easily sort through bubbles/maps that need rebubbling.
If we add a second category for the map spotlights at the top: "Highest Rated, Most Played, Newest Ranked, Newest Bubble" it would get these maps much more play/mod time.
I think a "bubbled" forum may be a really good idea. If a map is considered "need more work", it could be sent back to pending by a BAT.
"Newest Bubble"... well whatever, I'm kinda used to current forum spotlights set...
Last edited by NatsumeRin , edited 1 time in total.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,847 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY
Seemed like a good idea until I read mm201's post. I would be fine with the idea if the score was not recorded (that way minor changes could still happen), but if that happens this suggestion loses its most attractive aspect: an incentive for players to come look at bubbled maps. I don't see a good compromise right now, but this idea is something i will definitely be thinking about in the next few days.
Kitsunemimi
2,188 posts
Joined April 2009
Kitsunemimi
Ah, so it could be like beta testing? That's a nice idea for giving maps more attention and getting in some final mods before actual ranking. Although I agree with KRZY here that I don't really want my score to be submitted, but it doesn't really matter. I also didn't read through the whole thread, so I'm not entirely sure if the topic is getting altered or anything, but I support in general.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
Another thing about the bubble "forum" is that maps which were previously bubbled will not be lost in the sea of pending. Certainly a mat or bat can send it back to pending if need be, but if the map is good enough to be bubbled once, chances are it's good enough to be bubbled again after 1-2 mods.

Since the map is less likely to get lost on page 10 in the bubble forum, I think people wouldn't mind popping bubbles nearly as much as before.
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn

NatsumeRin wrote:

no modders want to touch a bubbled map (in almost every queue we can find a "no bubbled map" rule
i liked most of this post but....wat
Yuzeyun
7,622 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun
The "Bubbled Beatmaps" forum and sub-category is a good idea (This idea is NOT mine.) to find more maps waiting to be ranked. It would be also a good idea on taiko players' side, as some maps has a weird hitsounding stuff.

Also for the 'No Bubbled map' rule I use it because my modding isn't excellent, I will remove it when I have more modposts, let's say when I reach 100 kd? Some of the modders use this rule because they are not really confident and don't want to mess up a bubble for just some combo/placement issues.

I won't mind popping a bubble for a map that is NOT sightreadable, let's say some weird pattern like a big D followed by a d in a way that the d is NOT readable because this is a Dd 1/8.
I saw only one map with this. That wasn't fun.

/leaves.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
I agree that current system needs to be fixed, but to be honest I'm a bit negative about this will fix current problem of bubble/ranking system.

Most of players play only ranked maps cause it gives you score (quality issue might be the next, but it isn't that important to them). So Natsumerin suggested 'reserving' scores by playing bubbled maps and he said this will make players get more attention to bubbled maps. But this 'reserved' scores are unstable. It can be totally nullified by fixing the map. Some player might get interested about bubbled maps by doing this, but I think majority of them will still play ranked maps only. Also if this makes more mod for bubbled maps, the chance of bubble get popped will also increase and this makes reserved score more unstable. Due to this, more players will leave from bubbled maps again. If someone can make some kind of solution for this, I think I can agree with this more.

Though I still agree about giving more incentives for modding bubbles. Making independent category + more incentives make modding for bubbled maps more active than now, and that might be able to fill lacking of current MAT/BAT modding.

But I want to state this won't solve every problem we have in current system. Fundamental problem is low activity of MAT/BAT. The number of mappers increased a lot, but activity of MAT/BAT isn't sufficiently increased. Unfortunatly 'ranking standard' of MAT/BAT is much more higher than before and this also makes more burden to MAT/BAT cause they have to check maps more than before to maintain certain standard.

Well I want to give more thoughts about this in here, but unfortunatly I don't have much time right now...
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
@_Gezo_ & ziin:
The main problem is that all MATs dont have the right to move maps between forums and BATs/GMTs would be having to move every bubble to the "Bubbled" maps subforum, unless an automatic move is implemented and that would require more work that peppy probably doesnt even want to do.

@NatsumeRin:

Ok where can i start complaining first:
1. Make a new category "bubbled" shown to players just as "ranked" or "approved", there won't be a scoreboard for it, but players can save the local score, and the score would be submitted right after the map get ranked. (If there's no change made to the map).
Still they will lose their local scores if the beatmap suffers any changes, which isnt that what players are scared about when a map gets unranked?, rather players should be aware that maps run a "risk" of being unranked in the first week, also have you realized that the people that find problems on ranked maps are the modders themselves? the ones that complain are the players after losing their scores.

2. Since it gives ranked score (though later) and is shown in a more obvious place (we can assume it's about the same value as "approved" to players, much better than now), players will pay more attention to it. Also because it gives ranked score, players tend to want it keeps unchanged (if a map is changed then players have to update it to a new ver, the local score will be wiped) UNLESS he finds there's a big mistake in the map and he has to say something about it. That's just the FEEDBACK we want and need for current system.
I do agree with this, however the problem is that players dont know how to mod technical stuff unless they are experienced modders already.

3. If the mapper decide to change something because of the feedbacks, the MAT who bubbled it should recheck it as soon as possible. If they're just tiny fixes, a BAT could still directly rank it.
Already tried before (actually yesterday) the bubbling MAT didnt want to bother...... so i highly doubt the bubbling MAT will recheck as soon as possible, in my case i wouldnt mind doing it.

4. In this system, if a "bubbled" map reaches a certain play counts (let's say, 1000) and no really negative comments are made to the map, we can just assume that's a rankable map and should get BAT's priority to mod it (it probably means 100 or more players have tested the map). This will also prevent things like "damn i have a 2 months old bubble"
So rather than 8 sp now we need 1000 playcount? i could spam retry and get 1000 playcount easily \o/

For the "discourage minor changes to a map", well for now, no modders want to touch a bubbled map (in almost every queue we can find a "no bubbled map" rule), and players don't mind the minor things that much. So the only thing changed is when a BAT is coming to mod a map, rank it after some small fixes, the score will still be wiped. But i think the players who play "bubbled" maps should be aware of it. At last, it's still players' choice which kind of map they really play, this system is just trying to attract them to "bubbled" maps to prevent more unranking/mod after rank things.
This is a fact that i would like to be changed, even before i was a MAT i already checked bubbles to improve the mapsets, but modders tend to think that because a map is bubbled mapper will ignore, which is 90% of the time true, this could easily be solved if MATs would recheck maps that self-popped because the mapper wanted to improve the mapset.

This is easy, add a limit of minimum play counts (maybe 500) and a maximum play counts (maybe 5000) in "bubbled" category.
Even BAT's are too lazy (they sometimes are), the maps in "bubbled" category and reaches the maximum play counts for 24 hours will be automatically ranked.
Assuming, all bubbles are flawless? if it worked like that we wouldnt need 2 checks on every map before rank.

I think a "bubbled" forum may be a really good idea. If a map is considered "need more work", it could be sent back to pending by a BAT.
"Newest Bubble"... well whatever, I'm kinda used to current forum spotlights set...
already responded to ziin about the bubble subforum idea.
Cheer-no
Cheer-no
I think things would be a bit better if BATs/MATs would be obligated to recheck maps, at least under certain circumstances. Something like:

-the map isn't total garbage
-the mapper implements the changes within a week
-the map has at least # SP (maybe 20?)
-they haven't rechecked the map before
-the mapper informs them that changes were made, via PM or chat or something
then the BAT/MAT has to recheck within X amount of days. (a week maybe)

Or they'd also have to recheck if they popped a bubble. Probably a lot of flaws to this, but just my 2 cents!
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,847 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY

Sakura Hana wrote:

2. Since it gives ranked score (though later) and is shown in a more obvious place (we can assume it's about the same value as "approved" to players, much better than now), players will pay more attention to it. Also because it gives ranked score, players tend to want it keeps unchanged (if a map is changed then players have to update it to a new ver, the local score will be wiped) UNLESS he finds there's a big mistake in the map and he has to say something about it. That's just the FEEDBACK we want and need for current system.
I do agree with this, however the problem is that players dont know how to mod technical stuff unless they are experienced modders already. A bubbled map should not have technical problems, so this shouldn't be a problem.

3. If the mapper decide to change something because of the feedbacks, the MAT who bubbled it should recheck it as soon as possible. If they're just tiny fixes, a BAT could still directly rank it.
Already tried before (actually yesterday) the bubbling MAT didnt want to bother...... so i highly doubt the bubbling MAT will recheck as soon as possible, in my case i wouldnt mind doing it. My feeling is that the MATs are responsible for doing that...sure it is bothersome and a lot of work, but it is a responsibility for those holding the MAT title in this community. I'm sure MATs will opt to do the right thing than to follow the easy, lazysolution.

4. In this system, if a "bubbled" map reaches a certain play counts (let's say, 1000) and no really negative comments are made to the map, we can just assume that's a rankable map and should get BAT's priority to mod it (it probably means 100 or more players have tested the map). This will also prevent things like "damn i have a 2 months old bubble"
So rather than 8 sp now we need 1000 playcount? i could spam retry and get 1000 playcount easily \o/ Rather than the number of playcounts, the number of people who have tested the map seems a more reasonable standard for setting priority. One person can mass-retry and rack up playcounts, but said person is less likely to be able to coerce a hundred players to try the map.

This is easy, add a limit of minimum play counts (maybe 500) and a maximum play counts (maybe 5000) in "bubbled" category.
Even BAT's are too lazy (they sometimes are), the maps in "bubbled" category and reaches the maximum play counts for 24 hours will be automatically ranked.
Assuming, all bubbles are flawless? if it worked like that we wouldnt need 2 checks on every map before rank. I do disagree with the automatic rank idea, but giving priority to maps that have been bubbled for a longer time seems reasonable.
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
NatsumeRin

Sakura Hana wrote:

@_Gezo_ & ziin:
The main problem is that all MATs dont have the right to move maps between forums and BATs/GMTs would be having to move every bubble to the "Bubbled" maps subforum, unless an automatic move is implemented and that would require more work that peppy probably doesnt even want to do.
Make "bubbled" a sub-forum of pending maps, and make all MAT member as the manager of that sub-forum would probably solve the problem?

Sakura Hana wrote:

Still they will lose their local scores if the beatmap suffers any changes, which isnt that what players are scared about when a map gets unranked?, rather players should be aware that maps run a "risk" of being unranked in the first week, also have you realized that the people that find problems on ranked maps are the modders themselves? the ones that complain are the players after losing their scores.
So the common players tend to choose not to play bubbled maps, the people who play them are experienced players or modders (the bubbled map don't even have a scoreboard but just saved a local score). It makes those people play before the community, and like you said, it's just them who can point out the flaws.

I do agree with this, however the problem is that players dont know how to mod technical stuff unless they are experienced modders already.
Then why it get bubbled? If this happens again and again, i doubt the quality of MAT members.

Already tried before (actually yesterday) the bubbling MAT didnt want to bother...... so i highly doubt the bubbling MAT will recheck as soon as possible, in my case i wouldnt mind doing it.
With all the maps stays in a "bubbled" category/forum, it doesn't really need the original MAT to rebubble it now. All MAT/BAT should take care of "bubbled" forum more.

So rather than 8 sp now we need 1000 playcount? i could spam retry and get 1000 playcount easily \o/
You must be a patient people. It takes much more effort than to get 8 SP. My maps automatically gets more than 8SP before it's ranked, i don't even ask for stars, lol.

This is a fact that i would like to be changed, even before i was a MAT i already checked bubbles to improve the mapsets, but modders tend to think that because a map is bubbled mapper will ignore, which is 90% of the time true, this could easily be solved if MATs would recheck maps that self-popped because the mapper wanted to improve the mapset.
Compared to mod a good pending map, i doubt if there's anyone want to mod a bubbled map. No mappers will ask people to mod a bubbled map too (If they really want someone's mod, he could already call the modder before it get bubbled). If you can't change the fact that current system is discouaging people to touch bubbled maps, you can do nothing with it.

Assuming, all bubbles are flawless? if it worked like that we wouldnt need 2 checks on every map before rank.
I'd rather to have 2 checks. But consider current situation of MAT/BAT, this may be a good idea, honestly.
Miu Matsuoka
662 posts
Joined May 2008
Miu Matsuoka
NatsumeRin I totally support your new idea :D

Yea, a new beatmap category can be added to help solve the problem.
And a Bubbled Scoreboard is a great idea ;)

Also, it would be a great idea if BATs manage JUST bubbled maps, and MATs manage JUST pending maps.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

Miu Matsuoka wrote:

Yea, a new beatmap category can be added to help solve the problem.
This has been planned for a long time and is called a Popped Bubble. ()
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,847 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY

mm201 wrote:

Miu Matsuoka wrote:

Yea, a new beatmap category can be added to help solve the problem.
This has been planned for a long time and is called a Popped Bubble. ()

Sounds good, any idea on when it will possibly be implemented/open for public discussion?
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

Miu Matsuoka wrote:

Also, it would be a great idea if BATs manage JUST bubbled maps, and MATs manage JUST pending maps.
No. MATs and BATs can mod whatever they please. Though I agree a BAT's mod on a crappy 0 star map is pretty much a waste of time.
theMikeAG
308 posts
Joined September 2010
theMikeAG
Question. Why do we even need for Bubbles to pop upon editing them?

The way I see it, if a beatmap has been properly bubbled, it will only need very small tweaks. Edits to the combos, or maybe shifting a note just a tiny bit. Why do we discourage mappers from perfecting their beatmaps? It doesn't make sense to me.
Hanyuu
2,223 posts
Joined February 2009
Hanyuu
hmm if the bubble is popped the beatmap must be checked over again. that is normal. mostly it is only small things that is true but when you change the beatmap all must be looked over again because you could do a mistake or just troll by doing crazy things and then it gets ranked.

but if you mean if the BATs can do the tiny things for you that is not possible i think because you must submit and upload still :)

Why do we discourage mappers from perfecting their beatmaps?
this i dont understand, because if the bubble get popped does it not mean they try to make your beatmap even more perfect? ._.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

theMikeAG wrote:

Question. Why do we even need for Bubbles to pop upon editing them?

The way I see it, if a beatmap has been properly bubbled, it will only need very small tweaks. Edits to the combos, or maybe shifting a note just a tiny bit. Why do we discourage mappers from perfecting their beatmaps? It doesn't make sense to me.
It's because it's entirely possible to accidentally fuck up a map if, say, you change the timing (I know, I've done it).

That said, if you change a few small things, you can usually get your bubble repaired. Just tell the original bubbler what you changed, and they'll likely just repair it for you as long as you aren't asking them to mod it again.
Sure
4,220 posts
Joined February 2009
Sure
Any new systems are welcome! if it can deal with current problems.
but...
._.
theMikeAG
308 posts
Joined September 2010
theMikeAG

Hanyuu wrote:

troll by doing crazy things and then it gets ranked.
It takes so long to create a beatmap, find mods, edit it, remap sections, and then get a MAT/BAT to notice and look over it, that only the most dedicated of super trolls would consider trying something so stupid. And for what? If they try something stupid like that, a MAT/BAT will happily blast their bubble into smithereens.

Why do we discourage mappers from perfecting their beatmaps?
this i dont understand, because if the bubble get popped does it not mean they try to make your beatmap even more perfect? ._.[/quote]
I think were aren't on the same page here. I'm talking about the when you edit your map, and it gets popped. MAT and BAT should always be able to pop bubbles.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

theMikeAG wrote:

I think were aren't on the same page here. I'm talking about the when you edit your map, and it gets popped. MAT and BAT should always be able to pop bubbles.
The bubble used to not pop when you updated.

IIRC, what occasionally happened is that the map got bubbled, the mapper in question made a significant change (usually due to someone's mod post), the BAT that looked at it afterward ranked it, and then 2 days later we were looking at an unrank due to said change that wouldn't have happened if 2 BATs (only BATs existed back then) had looked at the change.

Nobody purposefully trolled or anything. It just happened. It was decided that enough was enough, and thus bubbles now pop upon an update. That's all there is to it, really.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Mappers fear that if they pop their bubble due to a mod post they wont be able to get it back, which isnt necessarily true, since most MATs will be happy to repair the bubble (at least i would), in fact i'd be happy to fully check anyone's map that self-popped due to a mod from someone else and they wanted to improve it, since i'd encourage mappers on improving their quality rather than thinking "rank rank rank rank".
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
Bumping. I see the use behind of this feature because sometimes they are really like one or two things which should be fixed before. Then again These things can wait until another BAT member Comes to mod it and you can fix These small issues with the mod of the 2nd BAT member.

AND THEN AGAIN if it's an actual unrankable issue a BAT member isn't allowed to rank it immediately.. I guess that's how it works. At least if a Map is getting unqualified by an unrankable issue it has to be bubbled before it can be qualified again.
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