This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.---------------
BAT #1: Cyclone
BAT #2: Mogsworth

Sorry, but bump.

Is no one even going to take a look at this?

Looks pretty good. The only issue is of design - I think it's a bit odd to have a break in the middle of the choruses, and at the same spot for both of them, but it's not so much a problem as it is a disagreement of decision.

EDIT: My bad, they're at different places.

I see where you're coming from, but I'm aiming for more of an EBA/Ouendan style where there are around 3-4 short breaks, loosely evenly placed. (It's totally ready for a storyboard to just be dropped in!) For an energetic song like this, there's no quiet spots to place your breaks in. (Except where the intro is repeated, and you'll find a break there. ) You'll see the very same thing in songs like The Anthem or Taiyou ga Moete iru (that mouse stage in the first).

Yes, I was careful to make sure each distinct musical phrase got its chance to be done, and that each break occurred during a different one.

I was considering making a "cruel" difficulty with no breaks and continuing right to the end of the song, but that's going to be for later. The ending speeds up, and I don't want to fight with adding timing sections right now. There are enough of them in the next song I'm working on.

Reserving for mod comments.

Edit: Haha I got this topic some well-deserved attention eh? BTW, although your timing is quite good, I would move the offset to 3922. Makes it easier to work with. A BPM of 124 will work well at this offset also.

Wow, finally, some Relient K.
Hard:
-00:47:23 (6) - Since you're syncing to the lyrics, this shouldn't be here. Same thing with all of the patterns like this (like 01:06:58 (6), 01:41:42 (6), 02:27:86 (5)). Space it out properly once you remove this beat
-01:28:23 - There should be a beat here. Stack it on the 6.

Fix these issues and I'll bubble. But for now, star.

Mogsworth wrote:

-00:47:23 (6) - Since you're syncing to the lyrics, this shouldn't be here. Same thing with all of the patterns like this (like 01:06:58 (6), 01:41:42 (6), 02:27:86 (5)). Space it out properly once you remove this beat

That's the word, "I." =/ Let's discuss.

Fixing the others along with some tweaks. Thanks for the star.

Bzzzt, wrong. Both of us were wrong. "I" is over one beat to the left, sorry. xD I should've checked further. That beat should still be there, just moved over to the left one tick in the 1/4 divisor. Meaning it should probably be part of the previous stack.

Fix that, and I'll bubble, probably. :3

Fixed.

Edit: Hmm, reuploading seems to have removed my star. =/

Yeesssss, Relient K. And this is one of my more favorite songs of theirs.

It sounds like you're mapping strictly to the lyrics for parts where there are lyrics, so I'm making these comments as if only and all the lyrics should be mapped.

Hard:
00:15:78 (1): The first circle should be moved 1/4 a beat to the left, because that's where the lyric is.
00:16:27 (2-3): I think a circle here on "we're" would be a good addition... I mean, there are parts where you step lyrics harder, so I can't think of a reason why this lyric shouldn't be stepped.
00:18:20 (2-3): A circle on "to". It's the hardest difficulty of the map, so it would make sense for even the earliest part to be harder than Normal.
00:24:01 (2-3): Another circle for "we're". This change should be made every time the lyric appears, so... yeah. Same with the "to"s. You should be able to find the instances for yourself...
00:44:33 (5): There's no lyric on this circle here. Doesn't sound like there's even a drum beat here. Just pointing that out, 'cause that may make you want to remove it..
00:48:44 (11): The lyric "wrong" stops before the slider stops. It may make more sense to have them stop at the same time. Either that or stop it at the 1/1 after it stops on the same guitar sound it stops at now. I realize that you have the slider covering that little breakdown, or whatever they're called, but they aren't lyrics. If you want to map to the guitar and drums here, you should do so in other places, too.
00:54:00 (2): The slider starting at the "ng" sound of "going" feels a little weird. Maybe just leave it as a circle on "gone".
01:05:49 (>1): There's a quick lyric "and" 1/4 before the first circle on "then", so you could put a circle there, too.
01:07:79 (11): Same thing about the slider going past the end of the lyric.
01:10:45, 01:12:39. 01:18:19, 01:20:13. "we're" and "to".
01:38:51 (5): No lyric here.
01:42:63 (11): Same thing with the slider.
01:52:06 (2): The "I" lyric is a 1/4 before this beat, so the circle should be moved to the left on the time line.
Also, right after this, it's odd how the slider for "won't" ends when the lyric ends, and the next slider starts at "sit" and ends on "back". Just seems odd for consistency. In my mind, it would be better to have all three words be seperate sliders here or make it a repeating slider like you do with the lyrics right after.
01:56:17 (3,4): Same thing with the consistency.
02:00:89 (7): The repeating slider feels weird here. There's no lyric on the first repeat. "Would" is a 1/4 to the right of where the repeat is. One option would be to have a slider from "Was" to "would" and a second separate slider from "just" to "be".
02:01:98: Because you step a breakdown here, maybe it would make more sense to step guitar and drums in more places than you do now..
Oh, wow, and after the break there, there's a whole section that goes to guitar...
02:12:50 (4): There are four guitar notes on that slider, but the last note is a 1/4 to the right of where the slider ends. I suggest separating this in to two sliders not only so you can get on the fourth note but to put a whistle/finish on the second slider where there are more sounds layered in the song.
02:14:44 (4): This repeating slider should be split, too, because the slider ends before the fourth note.
02:16:13, 02:18:06 (1<): A 1/4 after the slider ends, there's another guitar note. This is the same sound as the beginning of this section, and the extra note was placed there, so it's also an inconsistency issue.
02:19:88, 2:21:93 (2). There's no guitar sound at the end of the slider, so I think the end should be moved one 1/4 to the left where there is.
02:23:27 (2,3): I have no idea what the extra notes in this stack are going to.
02:23:99 (6): This circle doesn't have the same guitar sound as the first two notes in the stack, so it should be moved out of the stack.
02:29:07 (10): Same thing with the slider ending after "wrong" ends.
02:36:57 (2): Same thing with the slider starting on the second syllable of a word, "ng", feeling weird.
02:40:44 (2): The lyric "I" is 1/4 to the left from this circle on the time line.
And then the same thing with consistency about these next two sliders.
02:44:55: And with these two sliders.
That should be about everything I could find in Hard.

I may look at Easy and Normal later, because this may have made you realize some mistakes in those difficulties, too... And it's always nice when you can find mistakes on your own. Self-sufficiency is a good thing.

And you may want to ask someone else about this... But I've noticed that, often, when a song is on the farther end of the "typically acceptable length" scale, the Easy cuts off earlier than the other difficulties... to make it, uh, easier.

Silvuh wrote:

00:15:78 (1): The first circle should be moved 1/4 a beat to the left, because that's where the lyric is.
00:16:27 (2-3): I think a circle here on "we're" would be a good addition... I mean, there are parts where you step lyrics harder, so I can't think of a reason why this lyric shouldn't be stepped.

Yeah, that's a carry-over from when there was only one difficulty. Thinking of emphasis more than lyrics here. For some reason, it just feels wrong having that extra note in the first of each pair. I'm adding them to the second of each pair for now.

Silvuh wrote:

00:44:33 (5): There's no lyric on this circle here. Doesn't sound like there's even a drum beat here. Just pointing that out, 'cause that may make you want to remove it..

Thinking in terms of making it harder. And it feels right IMO. Keeping for now.

Silvuh wrote:

00:48:44 (11): The lyric "wrong" stops before the slider stops. It may make more sense to have them stop at the same time. Either that or stop it at the 1/1 after it stops on the same guitar sound it stops at now. I realize that you have the slider covering that little breakdown, or whatever they're called, but they aren't lyrics. If you want to map to the guitar and drums here, you should do so in other places, too.

I'm not strictly covering the lyrics, and it feels more appropriate to keep it going to the end of the drum line than to just have nothingness there. Or I could replace it with a more complicated stream, as I did on a few of the later occurrences. Keeping for now.

Silvuh wrote:

00:54:00 (2): The slider starting at the "ng" sound of "going" feels a little weird. Maybe just leave it as a circle on "gone".

This is mainly because phrase markers have constant lengths. I wanted to put something there, and there's a strong drumbeat at that point as well. You'll see this at other points in the song, too, where I was forced into some odd patterns by phrase markers. There also seems to be a bit of an emphasis in the vocals there, too, despite being in the middle of a word. Keeping for now.

Silvuh wrote:

01:05:49 (>1): There's a quick lyric "and" 1/4 before the first circle on "then", so you could put a circle there, too.

We are coming back from a break, and the word, "too," is the beginning of the next musical phrase. "and" is the last word of the musical phrase we had our break on. Keeping for now.

Silvuh wrote:

01:10:45, 01:12:39. 01:18:19, 01:20:13. "we're" and "to".

Kind of trickier to keep beatspacing here, but will give it a go.

Silvuh wrote:

01:52:06 (2): The "I" lyric is a 1/4 before this beat, so the circle should be moved to the left on the time line.

I'm not hearing it that way.

Silvuh wrote:

Also, right after this, it's odd how the slider for "won't" ends when the lyric ends, and the next slider starts at "sit" and ends on "back". Just seems odd for consistency. In my mind, it would be better to have all three words be seperate sliders here or make it a repeating slider like you do with the lyrics right after.

The other odd phrase marker pattern I was speaking of. I kind of envisioned a single rebounding phrase marker with a longer duration on the rebound, which is impossible. I tried snapping 1/8th and splitting the difference, but it sounded odd. Replacing it with something different. My new version has a spare note in each of these sets, but it feels wrong if I leave it empty.

Silvuh wrote:

02:00:89 (7): The repeating slider feels weird here. There's no lyric on the first repeat. "Would" is a 1/4 to the right of where the repeat is. One option would be to have a slider from "Was" to "would" and a second separate slider from "just" to "be".

Again, not the way I'm hearing it. "Was," "would," "just," "be," all sound to be equally spaced, but only on this occurrence of the phrase.

Silvuh wrote:

02:01:98: Because you step a breakdown here, maybe it would make more sense to step guitar and drums in more places than you do now..

Take a look at (1) the other place you said was the "only" place where I covered the drums, and the stuff following the break.

Silvuh wrote:

Oh, wow, and after the break there, there's a whole section that goes to guitar...

Now you get it!

Silvuh wrote:

02:12:50 (4): There are four guitar notes on that slider, but the last note is a 1/4 to the right of where the slider ends. I suggest separating this in to two sliders not only so you can get on the fourth note but to put a whistle/finish on the second slider where there are more sounds layered in the song.

I like my rebounding sliders! I might change if enough people want it that way.

Silvuh wrote:

02:16:13, 02:18:06 (1<): A 1/4 after the slider ends, there's another guitar note. This is the same sound as the beginning of this section, and the extra note was placed there, so it's also an inconsistency issue.

Trying to have fun with different patterns to keep everything interesting. Since it's Hard, I might throw back in some of these notes.

Silvuh wrote:

02:19:88, 2:21:93 (2). There's no guitar sound at the end of the slider, so I think the end should be moved one 1/4 to the left where there is.

Same as above. Might change.

Silvuh wrote:

02:23:27 (2,3): I have no idea what the extra notes in this stack are going to.

Drums.

Silvuh wrote:

02:23:99 (6): This circle doesn't have the same guitar sound as the first two notes in the stack, so it should be moved out of the stack.

It is going with the same drum pattern from above.

Silvuh wrote:

02:40:44 (2): The lyric "I" is 1/4 to the left from this circle on the time line.

Again, that's not how I'm hearing it.

It may not be how you're hearing it, but that doesn't make your hearing correct.

Also, make the changes Silvuh suggested, and I'll bubble. Until you do, the star still stands.

Fixed.

The only things I've left are 0:48'44 and repeats (explained that it covers the drum breakdown and avoids having a huge gap in that line) and 0:54'00 and repeats (explained that there's actually an emphasis on this beat). Is anything wrong with this?

That second part still feels weird to me, but otherwise, I approve. Fix that somehow unless another mod approves. For now, bubble.

EDIT: Due to things I've seen, I'll pop the bubble for now. I'll type this mod post up soon.

MetalMario201 wrote:

Yeah, that's a carry-over from when there was only one difficulty. Thinking of emphasis more than lyrics here. For some reason, it just feels wrong having that extra note in the first of each pair. I'm adding them to the second of each pair for now.

If you're thinking of emphasis more than lyrics, then the second circle should be on "we're" instead of "think", because there's no drum hit on "think" (and there is on "we're"), and the guitar sound is just the same on the two words. I don't see why any pair feels more "wrong" than another, 'cause they're all the same.

MetalMario201 wrote:

Thinking in terms of making it harder. And it feels right IMO. Keeping for now.

There is no sound at that note. It shouldn't be there. If you want to make it harder, add circles between lyrics where there actually are sounds.

MetalMario201 wrote:

I'm not strictly covering the lyrics, and it feels more appropriate to keep it going to the end of the drum line than to just have nothingness there. Or I could replace it with a more complicated stream, as I did on a few of the later occurrences. Keeping for now.

Yeah, I never said you couldn't place circles after the slider ended for the drum line. Lyrics aren't drums, so it was different holding a slider that covers multiple subjects.

MetalMario201 wrote:

This is mainly because phrase markers have constant lengths. I wanted to put something there, and there's a strong drumbeat at that point as well. You'll see this at other points in the song, too, where I was forced into some odd patterns by phrase markers. There also seems to be a bit of an emphasis in the vocals there, too, despite being in the middle of a word. Keeping for now.

Phrase markers? You mean the lengths of the sliders? Phrase markers always have constant lengths. And, what, did I say to put nothing there? No... And there's nothing wrong with sliders with different lengths if they're more accurate. There may be a bit of an emphasis on the "ng", but that's just like saying there's emphasis on several guitar notes you didn't put circles to.

MetalMario201 wrote:

We are coming back from a break, and the word, "too," is the beginning of the next musical phrase. "and" is the last word of the musical phrase we had our break on. Keeping for now.

That sounds nonsensical.
The last line of the break is I've got one foot out the doorAnd then continues with and to go back to where I was...
I don't see the word "too" in there anywhere. It doesn't make sense for the lyric lines to be split like "out the door and" "to go back" when the "and" is much closer to the "then". I still think the circle should be placed there.

MetalMario201 wrote:

Kind of trickier to keep beatspacing here, but will give it a go.

How is it tricky? It's just a note equally spaced between the (2) and (3).

MetalMario201 wrote:

Silvuh wrote:

01:52:06 (2): The "I" lyric is a 1/4 before this beat, so the circle should be moved to the left on the time line.

I'm not hearing it that way.

Well that's odd, because there is no way that "I" is not on the 1/4. You should be able to tell even on 100%. The "And I" is obviously faster than the "I won't".

MetalMario201 wrote:

The other odd phrase marker pattern I was speaking of. I kind of envisioned a single rebounding phrase marker with a longer duration on the rebound, which is impossible. I tried snapping 1/8th and splitting the difference, but it sounded odd. Replacing it with something different. My new version has a spare note in each of these sets, but it feels wrong if I leave it empty.

Eww, spare notes. I thought I said that if you want to step the drum, you should step the drum in more places. If you want to have the spare circle (4) on that drum sound, then place a circle between the two combos right where where the drum sound repeats. Do that or remove the spare notes. It makes more sense that way. This goes for all the spare notes.

MetalMario201 wrote:

Again, not the way I'm hearing it. "Was," "would," "just," "be," all sound to be equally spaced, but only on this occurrence of the phrase.

I can hear how the distance between "was" and "would" is longer than the distance between "just" and "be" on 100% speed. It's move obvious on 50%. If you can't hear how "would" is later on 50%, then, well... then, that's not a good thing.

MetalMario201 wrote:

Take a look at (1) the other place you said was the "only" place where I covered the drums, and the stuff following the break.

I never said it was the only place. I said "now". Not "only". And I was commenting as I go.

MetalMario201 wrote:

Now you get it!

Get what? That you put circles to the guitar? I noticed that the first moment I saw that section. Of course you put circles to the guitar there. The only thing doing this would make me "get" is why you did put notes to guitar in several other places (which you didn't). I don't understand how I can "get" how you aren't doing something in a place where you are.

MetalMario201 wrote:

I like my rebounding sliders! I might change if enough people want it that way.

You shouldn't like something that's incorrect. People want it changed because it's not correct how it is.

MetalMario201 wrote:

Trying to have fun with different patterns to keep everything interesting. Since it's Hard, I might throw back in some of these notes.

I never knew forgetting to put circles at certain places like this could be "interesting". Why does "interesting" have to conflict with good consistency?

MetalMario201 wrote:

Silvuh wrote:

02:23:27 (2,3): I have no idea what the extra notes in this stack are going to.

Drums.

Drums? Really? because I only hear those on the (1) and (3) of that stack.

MetalMario201 wrote:

It is going with the same drum pattern from above.

What? Even the drum sound at the circle I mentioned is different than the last two. (Also, this drum pattern here didn't occur at the beginning in the "above". The circle should be moved.

MetalMario201 wrote:

Silvuh wrote:

02:40:44 (2): The lyric "I" is 1/4 to the left from this circle on the time line.

Again, that's not how I'm hearing it.

Again, it's how I heard it. I hear it on 50%. I hear it on 100%. Why don't you hear it how it is?

Sorry if I sounded mean, but it wasn't very pleasing reading almost all the comments I spent a while working on being ignored.

Aaand after I finished typing all this, you have already edited the map.

Sooo here's the new stuff.

00:15:78 (1): The "I" sound is a 1/4 earlier than the circle.
01:52:54 (3): If you put a circle to the drum sound here, you should put a circle to the same drum sound at 01:53:51.
02:00:89 (7): This slider is still weird.
02:23:39 (2): I still think this circle doesn't go to anything.
02:23:99 (6): The guitar and the drum sound at this circle is different. Still, should be moved.
02:40:92 (3): Sluff notes again; same with 01:52:54 (sluff, fluff. I use them as a term to mean "extraneous" or "should be discarded".)
02:49:27 (7) Same weird slider.

Those are the only things I found now. I still think the "ng" sliders and the sliders past the "wrongs" are funny, but that's just my preference.

Silvuh wrote:

If you're thinking of emphasis more than lyrics, then the second circle should be on "we're" instead of "think", because there's no drum hit on "think" (and there is on "we're"), and the guitar sound is just the same on the two words. I don't see why any pair feels more "wrong" than another, 'cause they're all the same.

Personal preference. Changed anyway.

Silvuh wrote:

There is no sound at that note. It shouldn't be there. If you want to make it harder, add circles between lyrics where there actually are sounds.

Changed.

MetalMario201 wrote:

Yeah, I never said you couldn't place circles after the slider ended for the drum line. Lyrics aren't drums, so it was different holding a slider that covers multiple subjects.

Not sure what you're saying.

Silvuh wrote:

Phrase markers? You mean the lengths of the sliders? Phrase markers always have constant lengths. And, what, did I say to put nothing there? No... And there's nothing wrong with sliders with different lengths if they're more accurate. There may be a bit of an emphasis on the "ng", but that's just like saying there's emphasis on several guitar notes you didn't put circles to.

It's impossible to find every one of them. It's basically a matter of artistic interpretation, and we disagree. Changed anyway.

Silvuh wrote:

That sounds nonsensical.
The last line of the break is I've got one foot out the doorAnd then continues with and to go back to where I was...
I don't see the word "too" in there anywhere. It doesn't make sense for the lyric lines to be split like "out the door and" "to go back" when the "and" is much closer to the "then". I still think the circle should be placed there.

Typo. Meant to say, "to." Can be argued both ways. Already changed.

Silvuh wrote:

How is it tricky? It's just a note equally spaced between the (2) and (3).

Had to move around all the notes to keep to the time-distance rule, but it's already been done.

Silvuh wrote:

Well that's odd, because there is no way that "I" is not on the 1/4. You should be able to tell even on 100%. The "And I" is obviously faster than the "I won't".

It's ambiguous. He's still on a closed syllabic 'n' at the 1/4. Changed anyway.

Silvuh wrote:

Eww, spare notes. I thought I said that if you want to step the drum, you should step the drum in more places. If you want to have the spare circle (4) on that drum sound, then place a circle between the two combos right where where the drum sound repeats. Do that or remove the spare notes. It makes more sense that way. This goes for all the spare notes.

Redone in a different way. Again, it's impossible to catch every chance to throw in a note on a drumbeat, so I just do the ones that I can easily hear and fit.

Silvuh wrote:

I can hear how the distance between "was" and "would" is longer than the distance between "just" and "be" on 100% speed. It's move obvious on 50%. If you can't hear how "would" is later on 50%, then, well... then, that's not a good thing.

Correction: it's ambiguous on 50%. He stylizes his vocals a lot and there ends up being room for interpretation.

Silvuh wrote:

I never said it was the only place. I said "now". Not "only". And I was commenting as I go.

You still seem to be holding me to some strict, all-or-nothing rule, which is infeasible. Putting in every spare guitar riff or drum thing would make things very cluttered, overmapped, and hard to follow. I tried to put them in where they wouldn't conflict with anything else. Again, mapping is not an exact science.

Silvuh wrote:

Get what? That you put circles to the guitar? I noticed that the first moment I saw that section. Of course you put circles to the guitar there. The only thing doing this would make me "get" is why you did put notes to guitar in several other places (which you didn't). I don't understand how I can "get" how you aren't doing something in a place where you are.

Explained in the previous quote response. And that was a friendly poke.

Silvuh wrote:

You shouldn't like something that's incorrect. People want it changed because it's not correct how it is.

I didn't know there was a "right" way and a "wrong" way to do everything. There are guidelines, and I've strived to follow them. I was playing around, throwing in counter-rhythms to make it more difficult and interesting. Changed anyway.

Silvuh wrote:

I never knew forgetting to put circles at certain places like this could be "interesting". Why does "interesting" have to conflict with good consistency?

See response to above quote. Changed anyway.

Silvuh wrote:

Drums? Really? because I only hear those on the (1) and (3) of that stack.

Okay, I hear that. Will change.

Silvuh wrote:

What? Even the drum sound at the circle I mentioned is different than the last two. (Also, this drum pattern here didn't occur at the beginning in the "above". The circle should be moved.

This beat (2:23'99) does have a stronger attack than the other two on the stack, but they're close enough and I wanted to spare the player's hand a bit.

Silvuh wrote:

Again, it's how I heard it. I hear it on 50%. I hear it on 100%. Why don't you hear it how it is?

That was rude. I've explained how it's ambiguous, and it's been changed, besides.

Silvuh wrote:

Sorry if I sounded mean, but it wasn't very pleasing reading almost all the comments I spent a while working on being ignored.

And it wasn't very pleasant reading my map being picked apart in the most arcane aspects, and every attempt to throw in some artistic flair or variation being shot down. It's only natural for one to get defensive. I responded to every comment that seemed to have any relevance and did my best to justify what I was doing.

Silvuh wrote:

00:15:78 (1): The "I" sound is a 1/4 earlier than the circle.

Stylization. And it's a gliss into the downbeat which has the emphasis. And I don't want to rape my countdown by moving it to an offbeat.

Silvuh wrote:

01:52:54 (3): If you put a circle to the drum sound here, you should put a circle to the same drum sound at 01:53:51.

Okay. That seems to fill the gap well. Done here and in the repeats. Thanks.

Silvuh wrote:

02:00:89 (7): This slider is still weird.

Explained.

Silvuh wrote:

02:23:39 (2): I still think this circle doesn't go to anything.

Okay, fair. Removed. Spaced.

Silvuh wrote:

02:23:99 (6): The guitar and the drum sound at this circle is different. Still, should be moved.

It's very difficult to keep the time-distance rule when separating them, and I wouldn't consider it all that significant an issue.

Silvuh wrote:

02:40:92 (3): Sluff notes again; same with 01:52:54 (sluff, fluff. I use them as a term to mean "extraneous" or "should be discarded".)

Each of these notes have been given a "partner" note at the following drumbeat. It's too empty without them.

Silvuh wrote:

02:49:27 (7) Same weird slider.

Same ambiguous lyric spacing.

Silvuh wrote:

Those are the only things I found now. I still think the "ng" sliders and the sliders past the "wrongs" are funny, but that's just my preference.

The ng-sliders have been replaced already. The wrong-sliders (lol) could be replaced with a good number of circles to go with the drums, but I wanted to give the player a bit of a rest after that stream.

Thanks for your input. At times, I'm just blindly following it, but I do hope it results in a better map.

Okay, yeah, sorry for being an asshole about that. It's nice knowing I was able to help, but... I still feel really bad for being an asshole. Dumb moods, gah. I get in that mood some times. So I'll just shut up for now and stop caring about my pricky preferences. Don't feel like explaining because I don't want to sound like an asshole again. (Too tired to think now, anyway). Sorry about all that. Did just want to help, and I'm sorry I didn't do it in a nicer manner.

Yeah... Sorry again.

Maybe I'll try to look at Easy and Normal tomorrow... Harder difficulties are just the easiest for me to go mad on 'cause easier difficulties are supposed to be more stylized... Awrf, I promise I'll try to be nicer if I do comment on the other difficulties.

Okay, I'm going to get to modding Easy and Normal now that I've finally taken another good look at them..but really, this is me being reaaaally picky.

Easy:
-00:19:89 - Spacing issue, too close to the previous beat.
-00:24:25 - This may be an easy map, but still, spacing inconsistency from the last beat to here.
-00:27:64 - This is spaced a bit too close to the previous beat.
-00:49:89 (4, 5) - Spacing. Also, I feel like the 5 is off by one tick in the 1/4 divisor. Like, move it one tick to the left in that divisor. The same goes for all of the times the word "On" is said.
-00:50:86 - Why is there no beat here?
-00:55:70 - Here, either?
-Add beats at the two previous times and space them properly. Two beats and some offbeat patterns that sync with the lyrics aren't going to make this no longer easy, it's still easy, trust me. :3
-01:09:61 - This is on the offbeat I previously mentioned. Also, space it so either this is further away from the next beat or the next beat is further away from it. Still, properly space it.
-01:18:44 - See 00:24:25. I think this part was copied from before, am I correct in assuming this?
-01:26:18 - Using the same slider patterns over and over and the same shapes as before may be consistent, but in this, it looks lazy. Make them a bit more...interesting, so the patterns don't bore people.
-01:44:56 (5) - Move this over one to the left, like all of the others. Then properly space, you know the drill.
-02:11:65 - Straight sliders and the occasional curved one, try to make it more interesting. Not complex, but change up the slider shapes every now and then.
-02:38:75 (5, 6) - Proper spacing. Now that you have the other "on" before it synced, space the 5 out further.
-02:42:13 (2) - I don't feel like this beat should be here.
-02:42:62 (3, 4, 5 [now 2, 3, 4]) - Space this out further away.
-02:44:55 (1) - Space this out further, due to such a distance on the timeline.
-02:48:42 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) - Make this more interesting, since it's a copy/paste of the previous one.
-02:52:29 (5) - Another "on" to move back, then properly space. Sorry if this seems tedious, but even easy maps should be properly synced, right?

Normal:
-Essentially, spacing issues.
-Is it me, or are the beats bigger in Normal than Easy?
-00:17:72 (1, 2, 3) - I'm assuming that you're using 0.9x distance snapping, since that works well for the first three beats. Stay within these boundaries when spacing. So, highlight this entire phrase, click on the first beat of said phrase, and move it with Distance Snapping on. Voila. And the next beat is perfectly spaced!
-00:20:86 (2) - Space, space, space.
-00:21:83 (3, 4, 5, 6, 7) - Space this. Also, move the 4 up a little bit so it looks better. :3
-00:23:52 (1, 2, 3) - Space. Evenly space the next 3 beats, as well.
-00:29:33 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) - Space, it's only a small amount.
-00:42:63 (4, 5, 1, 2, 3) - Space these out. There is a way to move the 1 up so that the 2 and 3 only have to slightly move.
-00:52:07 (2, 3, 4, 5, 6) - While these are spaced properly, the distance between 1 and 2 isn't. Highlight, drag, etc.
-00:54:73 (1, 2) - Space out the 1, keep the same slider shape and grid pattern, but then you have to space out 2.
-01:09:97 (1, 2, 3) - Highlight then distance spacing. Same thing for the next set of 3.
-01:15:05 (2) - Spacing.
-01:16:02 (3, 4, 5, 6, 7) - Spacing. Highlight then drag.
-01:17:81 (1, 2, 3) - Highlight, then distance spacing. Same for the next set of 3, except with the next part, you might have to make the slider curve in the opposite direction...
-Actually, if you go through this with the 0.9x divisor on, you'll see which parts are still properly spaced and which aren't, and once you start seeing it, it'll become more and more obvious. Essentially, properly space this.

Fix these problems, and the previous problems with Hard, and you'll get a well-deserved bubble. But with these problems, I should get rid of the star. I'm being nice, though.

Mogsworth wrote:

Easy:
-00:19:89 - Spacing issue, too close to the previous beat.

Horizontally flipping from the blue combo on. That makes the spacing a bit too wide, but I doubt it'll confuse anyone.

Mogsworth wrote:

-00:24:25 - This may be an easy map, but still, spacing inconsistency from the last beat to here.

Fixed. Still imperfect, but shouldn't confuse anyone. On such a slow difficulty, it's hard to keep everything on the screen while adhering perfectly to the spacing rule, since the spaces have to be so huuge.

Mogsworth wrote:

-00:27:64 - This is spaced a bit too close to the previous beat.

Itsy bitsy difference here. ._. Fixed. (I'd have been more concerned with how it was too close to 0:29'57, which is also fixed. )

Mogsworth wrote:

-00:49:89 (4, 5) - Spacing. Also, I feel like the 5 is off by one tick in the 1/4 divisor. Like, move it one tick to the left in that divisor. The same goes for all of the times the word "On" is said.

That's actually where Distance Snap puts it on Grid Level 2. Moving the note back by a 1/4 divisor puts it to where you suggest.

On a more general basis, it's quite common in the official games to straighten out syncopations and leave out notes on the Easy levels to make them more, well, easy. This is what I've been trying to do here.

Mogsworth wrote:

-00:50:86 - Why is there no beat here?

Because it's Easy?

Mogsworth wrote:

-00:55:70 - Here, either?
-Add beats at the two previous times and space them properly. Two beats and some offbeat patterns that sync with the lyrics aren't going to make this no longer easy, it's still easy, trust me. :3

Again, I've seen the official guys do this. And there's a difference between a song being easy for someone who's played rhythm games (especially Ouendan and derivatives on higher difficulties) and a complete beginner. The complete beginner is going to be counting like, "1, 2, 3, 4," in their head, trying to tap on time, and there's nothing like offbeats to foil them up!

Adding and moving anyway, I guess.

Mogsworth wrote:

-01:09:61 - This is on the offbeat I previously mentioned. Also, space it so either this is further away from the next beat or the next beat is further away from it. Still, properly space it.

Tricky. Especially since moving them any closer together will partially obstruct that blue phrase marker that runs between. An eyesore I'd rather not have, especially on Easy. Will try to figure something out.

Mogsworth wrote:

-01:26:18 - Using the same slider patterns over and over and the same shapes as before may be consistent, but in this, it looks lazy. Make them a bit more...interesting, so the patterns don't bore people.

That's actually the first time I've used this pattern. Yeah, it's boring; one huge arched phrase marker looks like the next. Maybe I'll change it to something like straight quarters or something.

Mogsworth wrote:

-02:11:65 - Straight sliders and the occasional curved one, try to make it more interesting. Not complex, but change up the slider shapes every now and then.

Mogsworth wrote:

-02:42:13 (2) - I don't feel like this beat should be here.

Will do.

Mogsworth wrote:

-02:48:42 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) - Make this more interesting, since it's a copy/paste of the previous one.

Big finale? Sounds like a good idea.

Mogsworth wrote:

-02:52:29 (5) - Another "on" to move back, then properly space. Sorry if this seems tedious, but even easy maps should be properly synced, right?

Explained this earlier. On an easy level, it seems more fair to almost "synch to the metronome" at times. If I were to synch, I'd want to do something like at 1:58'59 and use a phrase marker whose end is synched to the vocals, so that even if the player doesn't catch it, no mistake is counted. I still think this is reasonable on the easiest difficulty. Let's discuss further.

Mogsworth wrote:

Normal:
-Essentially, spacing issues.

I'm not replying to most spacing comments because they're all being fixed and just take up, uh, space!

Mogsworth wrote:

-Is it me, or are the beats bigger in Normal than Easy?

They are the exact same size on all difficulties. The drain rate and "overall difficulty" are all that vary.

Mogsworth wrote:

-00:17:72 (1, 2, 3) - I'm assuming that you're using 0.9x distance snapping, since that works well for the first three beats. Stay within these boundaries when spacing. So, highlight this entire phrase, click on the first beat of said phrase, and move it with Distance Snapping on. Voila. And the next beat is perfectly spaced!

The default, 0.8, actually. 0.9 (or even 1) seems to make more sense, so I'll be using it from now on. Most of this is hand spaced, besides, due to the need to fudge some spacing by small amounts and to center my phrase markers on the screen.

Moving 1 to in between 2 and 3 seems to be working better, albeit slightly confusing, especially with the notes on screen for a long time. Oh, I see where you want me to put it--the whole phrase just hanging above the middle line. It looks quite nice there!

Mogsworth wrote:

-00:20:86 (2) - Space, space, space.

This is one of my fudge points. Reorienting the phrase markers further up (but not straight vertical, booring!) seems to fix it, though I still have to fudge 3 by one grid square. (level 3)

Mogsworth wrote:

-00:21:83 (3, 4, 5, 6, 7) - Space this. Also, move the 4 up a little bit so it looks better. :3

It's already spaced. (Maybe you fixed the above problem a different way?) And I like the 4 where it is. xP

Mogsworth wrote:

-00:23:52 (1, 2, 3) - Space. Evenly space the next 3 beats, as well.

Grid Level 2 strikes again. Respaced according to Grid Level 3.

Mogsworth wrote:

-00:29:33 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) - Space, it's only a small amount.

Grid level 2, yadda, yadda...

Mogsworth wrote:

-01:09:97 (1, 2, 3) - Highlight then distance spacing. Same thing for the next set of 3.

These are already spaced! Fixed the blue set of 3.

Mogsworth wrote:

-01:17:81 (1, 2, 3) - Highlight, then distance spacing. Same for the next set of 3, except with the next part, you might have to make the slider curve in the opposite direction...

I dragged 1:19'64 (1) on its own, and it conveniently stacked on top of 1:19'89 (2). Leaving it there.

Updating Medium. The changes to Hard have already been implemented. Fixing some of Easy, but waiting for more discussion before finishing.

You're the one that's not quite getting this, huh?

MetalMario201 wrote:

Because it's Easy?

A single note, in this case, does not catapult the difficulty from Easy to Normal. It makes it actually fit. And there are more difficult parts of the map, anyways. Just add the notes, it doesn't catapult the difficulty in any way.

MetalMario201 wrote:

On a more general basis, it's quite common in the official games to straighten out syncopations and leave out notes on the Easy levels to make them more, well, easy. This is what I've been trying to do here.

The thing is, though, just because the official games straighten out syncopations doesn't make it alright for you to do it. I mean, look at Ouendan's beatspacing. Some of it is downright horrendous. If we mapped everything like the songs in Ouendan, we'd have no concept of proper beatspacing. Some things change to make things make more sense.

Think about it this way: DDR steps don't always go to the music. People criticized StepMania for having "karaoke steps", steps following the music at first. Then, it became perfectly obvious that these "karaoke steps" were a better means of organization for files. The official games still don't always follow the music (pitch relevancy wise in all difficulties and the basic rhythms on easier difficulties despite more complex rhythms), but in StepMania, it's impossible to have a good, fun file without those things.

What I'm trying to say is that following the official games exactly isn't always the best course of action, due to things we can see that are done wrong. Turning the syncopation into straight quarters is more likely to screw someone up than not (listening to the preview music, they'll get the basic rhythm into their heads, probably, and when they go to play it, if it's straight, then they'll be getting an inaccurate result).

MetalMario201 wrote:

Again, I've seen the official guys do this. And there's a difference between a song being easy for someone who's played rhythm games (especially Ouendan and derivatives on higher difficulties) and a complete beginner. The complete beginner is going to be counting like, "1, 2, 3, 4," in their head, trying to tap on time, and there's nothing like offbeats to foil them up!

Adding and moving anyway, I guess.

Most of the general Osu! populous isn't like that. And even for the ones that are, they'll recognize the pattern right away after playing that pattern once.

MetalMario201 wrote:

Tricky. Especially since moving them any closer together will partially obstruct that blue phrase marker that runs between. An eyesore I'd rather not have, especially on Easy. Will try to figure something out.

Move the blue phrase marker, then.

MetalMario201 wrote:

That's actually the first time I've used this pattern. Yeah, it's boring; one huge arched phrase marker looks like the next. Maybe I'll change it to something like straight quarters or something.

Keep the sliders, but just change the shapes so it at least has some variety.

MetalMario201 wrote:

Explained this earlier. On an easy level, it seems more fair to almost "synch to the metronome" at times. If I were to synch, I'd want to do something like at 1:58'59 and use a phrase marker whose end is synched to the vocals, so that even if the player doesn't catch it, no mistake is counted. I still think this is reasonable on the easiest difficulty. Let's discuss further.

Syncing to the vocals is your best option, so why not do that? And besides, I think that a simple rhythm is still very fair game on an easy difficulty. Remember that this is osu!, NOT Ouendan. We don't have to constantly dumb things down to "1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, SL-I-D-ER". Easy difficulties are allowed to have variety and offbeats, as long as they're, well, easy. This is a very easy to recognize offbeat, so keep it in all of the other cases, since you want to do the slider syncing to the vocals. Also remember that usually, fans of the artist whose song you mapped will go for this map right away, and if they're new, they'll play Easy, and they'll definitely recognize the offbeat.

Like I said before, fix up Easy (since Normal is pretty much fine now), and a well-deserved bubble is yours.

It's just a slight disagreement in design paradigms. I see that the community has its own set of standards and I'll try my best to conform to them.

Sorry for the leave of absence. I've been going to bed in the PM hours as of late.

Updated the map with all the suggestions I've seen, and did other bits of stuff here and there, like more (and carefully placed) whistle noises to achieve the emphasis I had previously done by leaving out notes.

Edit: I'm working on Cruel difficulty right now. Please don't rank just yet.

Edit3: Cruel difficulty is complete! Please don't criticize the wide jumps (not spaced normally), as they are there to add difficulty. Many other ranked maps (including new ones) use these. I also removed all but one of the original breaks, and added one more just before the ending, which is mapped on this difficulty. It's kind of tiring, but it's cruel, after all.

Edit4: Okay. I've toned down Cruel a little bit by adding one more break to allow you to reposition your mouse and wipe off the sweat. Other maps have insane difficulties, so why shouldn't this one?

As much fun as making this map has been, I'd like to move on to other things I'm working on, so I'd appreciate if someone would take one more look.

Intense:

00:48:929 (14) That jump makes this entire combo hard to read. Stack it under the 12 and 13
01:08:283 (15) ^
01:21:225 (1) Too close to the previous Slider
01:43:119 (14) Same as 1st change
02:02:473 (15) ^
02:24:124 (6) Move closer to the 5. The jump makes it look like a 1/2 beat instead of a 1/4 beat.
02:25:213 (the whole thing) The gaps make it seem like there are 3 notes at a time, instead of a long stream.
02:29:567 (13) Same as 1st change
02:39:002 (1) Space farther from the 8
02:50:856 (15) Same as 1st Change

Hard:

02:24:124 (6) Move closer to the 5. The jump makes it look like a 1/2 beat instead of a 1/4 beat.


Looks good! Even some of the jumps i'm having you change make more sense after playing the song about 10 times. (that doesn't mean don't change them)

It's good to mod a map with no timing changes needed.

Everything is fixed. I had to change 2:24:12 (Intense) into a jump, but that should be fine on this difficulty and it isn't confusing, methinks. (Hmm, it seems I changed this to something else again without remembering.)

I managed to preserve what sense of grouping I could on that long stream at 2:25:21 while making sure every note overlapped.

Hard's Fix is in. Normal and easy look great.

Intense:

01:08:283 (15) That jump makes this entire combo hard to read. Stack it under the 12 and 13

^Missed this one.^

and

01:21:709 (3) please move a little closer to end of previous slider.

Also

02:25:213 (all) That is a hectic stream, but i LOVE it. Don't touch it. (i'm sure i'll change my mind later when i fail to hit it)

Fixed all the above, plus the very same issue on 01:21:709 (3) which is also seen on Hard.

Nice catch, I didn't see it. Everything checks out on my end. Bubbled.

Thankfully, needed changes were made before I could criticize them. xD

Now, it's only combo number issues. Here we go, the new .osu. Fix it and I'll rank it.
Download: Relient K - Pressing On (MetalMario201) [Intense].osu

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

More likely a sticky note on my brother's laptop, so he can fight through it for a while!

Thanks so much for the rank!

Holy crap, playing this with Elite Beat Osu is FUN. The SFX fit so well.