Nekomata Master - Far east nightbird · forum

Vivyanne

Joined December 2013

Topic Starter

Vivyanne 2017-03-31T15:39:26+00:00

o but i said that every section is different as well so mixing up the small spacing gimmick in there should be no problem
also i did fix a few stuff here and there so ~

Celektus

694 posts

Joined April 2014

Celektus 2017-03-31T15:46:29+00:00

the small spacing gimmick is a lot different form any other change tho. Saying your concepts change all the time isn't everything that's going on there still is and should be some consistencies since the song isn't going form 20 BPM Chill to 470 BPM Splittercore every section...

what I'm saying is that small jump doesn't really work I think, but maybe unintentionally all the other jump concepts do.
If you still disagree then I'll just drop the conversation before we get into a big discussion.

maybe I just don't see the point you're trying to make.

Edit: using it more often and earlier would fix it for me and shouldn't be too hard I think

Vivyanne

1,215 posts

Joined December 2013

Topic Starter

Vivyanne 2017-03-31T17:19:37+00:00

youre saying what i wanted
its really notable and different from the rest
thats why i had it and will be keeping them :3/

lcfc

813 posts

Joined October 2015

lcfc 2017-03-31T18:19:43+00:00

fixed all suggestions from last Celektus' post except this bit 00:26:046 (2,3,4) - because I wanna keep this symmetrical pattern that still goes unnoticed xd 00:26:046 (2,5,6,1,2,3) -

diff

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Mazziv

998 posts

Joined July 2013

Mazziv 2017-04-01T08:36:42+00:00

Celektus wrote:
[MZV's Advanced]

your diff is visually very inconsistent. you have a lot of different slider angles, shapes and curves.

let me explain it by saying these 2 are essentially the same shape overall 00:03:046 (3,3) - but both have different curvatures (I know they are red but I'll still say curvature)
you should essentially make these both a copy of each other. i can copy paste everything but i dont think it would change anything

another thing are the angles, you pretty much go from 90° vertical 00:07:046 (3,3) - to 20° ish 00:09:713 (3,4,5,6) - to 90° horizontal 00:11:713 (1) - within the same section
what ends up happening is that you have so many different concepts that represent essentially similar things in the song that nothing becomes recognizable as a pattern
which then also affects reading by making the patterns less intuitive i lowkey agree on this but: 90 degree is my mapping style so you see this shit in most of my maps and the 20 degree change was obviously because the music changed

the last thing about this is that too many different "basic" shapes take away contrast. Essentially when every slider is new and special no slider really sticks out
if every slider is a tilted copy of each other patterns become recognizable
and when then after let's say 8 normal copied sliders a special one appears it will stick out a lot and possibly make a hard to read change in the song clearly recognizable. i dont like copy/paste so i do everything different and since its not a major thing i cant really see a problem here other than subjective aesthetics

In case all that lecturing was annoying
tl;dr copy more sliders, keep angles similar... and also maybe ask about slider art advice or try out more

there are also problems with rhythm emphasis by having strong sounds on slider ends while the head has a weaker sound in comparison
which makes rhythm unintuitiv to play. oh okay well if you just tell me its bad i can surely fix it,thanks

if that was all annoying and mean pls don't hate me I'm just trying to halp yoo. ;__;
you will probably need to remap this, if you'd like some help ask me maybe and don't take it to harsh

thanks for the mod

Celektus

694 posts

Joined April 2014

Celektus 2017-04-01T11:57:37+00:00

I thought there might be some misconceptions so I decided to repeat my main arguments in response in a more broad way. I'm sure there are still compromises that can be made to improve the map without disregarding you're vision, but if most of what I said is still too subjective to consider remapping please at least keep the main point about consistency with visuals as free to interpret advise.

I don't expect another response, but feel free to detest my ideas or ask for a better explanation of my arguments

Mazziv wrote:
Celektus wrote:
[MZV's Advanced]

your diff is visually very inconsistent. you have a lot of different slider angles, shapes and curves.

another thing are the angles, you pretty much go from 90° vertical 00:07:046 (3,3) - to 20° ish 00:09:713 (3,4,5,6) - to 90° horizontal 00:11:713 (1) - within the same section
what ends up happening is that you have so many different concepts that represent essentially similar things in the song that nothing becomes recognizable as a pattern
which then also affects reading by making the patterns less intuitive i lowkey agree on this but: 90 degree is my mapping style so you see this shit in most of my maps and the 20 degree change was obviously because the music changed
just to be clear no angle is "bad". My point was that you don't use angles consistently enough and thus make more special changes in the song like fills stand out less. There are special sliders on fills and stuff like that, but also in a lot of other places.

the last thing about this is that too many different "basic" shapes take away contrast. Essentially when every slider is new and special no slider really sticks out
if every slider is a tilted copy of each other patterns become recognizable
and when then after let's say 8 normal copied sliders a special one appears it will stick out a lot and possibly make a hard to read change in the song clearly recognizable. i dont like copy/paste so i do everything different and since its not a major thing i cant really see a problem here other than subjective aesthetics
well you can map without copy past probably same goes for the rotation tool, but you still can be more consistent about angles and shapes

In case all that lecturing was annoying
tl;dr copy more sliders, keep angles similar... and also maybe ask about slider art advice or try out more

there are also problems with rhythm emphasis by having strong sounds on slider ends while the head has a weaker sound in comparison
which makes rhythm unintuitiv to play. oh okay well if you just tell me its bad i can surely fix it,thanks
I gave reasoning for most of my suggestions on the overall inconsistency of your visuals in my opinion. Since I suggested remapping I thought pointing out anything about the rhythm would just take away focus. Also other than the visuals I didn't had many gripes with the map.

if that was all annoying and mean pls don't hate me I'm just trying to halp yoo. ;__;
you will probably need to remap this, if you'd like some help ask me maybe and don't take it to harsh
thanks for the mod

C00L

1,078 posts

Joined September 2014

C00L 2017-04-03T12:58:48+00:00

mazziv could u reply to my mod too thanks ;w;

Mazziv

998 posts

Joined July 2013

Mazziv 2017-04-03T13:35:16+00:00

C00L wrote:
mazziv could u reply to my mod too thanks ;w;

hightec fixd some stuff for me because i wasnt able to do that

as reference

HighTec wrote:
thanks for the mod~ updated everything up until now

waiting for
~~damnjelly~~
yf
loli
kujinn
~~mazziv~~

fixed mazziv's stuff with permission

C00L

1,078 posts

Joined September 2014

C00L 2017-04-03T14:47:36+00:00

o ugh i guess, mb

Seolv

847 posts

Joined March 2016

Seolv 2017-04-08T19:59:25+00:00

Hello, here's my mod
From my queue

Arphi

00:13:713 (1,2) - Don't do overlaps like these, it might be hard for new players.
00:28:213 (2) - This rhythm is hard for new players
00:29:713 (1) - End of this slider should be clickable
00:33:713 (4,5,1) - Rhythm too hard.
00:58:379 (3,4) - Put (4) closer to (3) for better spacing
01:03:713 (3,4) - Same
01:29:046 (3) - Put this as a 1/1 slider instead

Cool

00:05:796 (1) - Why put a slider here, you should put it at 00:09:713 -

Other than that, seems pretty clean.

C00L

1,078 posts

Joined September 2014

C00L 2017-04-10T20:31:16+00:00

Celektus wrote:
[C00L's Normal]
there is a very prominent Crash sound in this gap 00:24:379 (3,1) - it's on the red tick behind this slider 00:25:713 (1) -
I though about moving that one just back in the timeline and changing it's length, but splitting it up into other object would probably work the best.
In case you find it landing on a red tick unintuitive I'd say that the break gives enough space to think about when to click for players
and it wouldn't break their expectations too much I think. You could then also make more clear through a change in the slider shape if you like yes there is a intense crash there but i prefered to go for simpler rhythm anyway since it's a normal difficulty making that only a 1/2 gap would be inconsistent through out the whole map, since i only used min of 1/1 gaps. Also this isn't the only sound i ignored there's a lot of sounds that i just didn't map because they seemed too complex, but i do get why you mentioned this i hope i exaplined my self enough :p
I also think this could be changed to emphasize the offbeat Snare a bit more 00:28:046 (4,5) -
I personally would change the repeat slider to a normal slider and move both objects in the timeline with that creating a big enough gap to not have to complex rhythm.
I'd say the section itself has a lot of red tick emphasis and it would resemble the song more closely, but I can understand if that change is very unintuitiv again why sounds are missed out ^
I think the angle of this slider is to special 00:48:379 (1) - I know it might be there to compliment this one 00:44:379 (1) -
but that one is representing a more special change in the song and also these aren't complementing that slider 00:45:713 (1) - 00:47:046 (3) -
I think it shouldn't be a big deal to maybe rotate the slider or change it's curve. It's mostly just the 90° ish looking angle i interpret it as similar sounds in that section, the only reason the slider you pointed out 00:44:379 (1) - is the shape it is, its because of the amount of sound building up to and after the repeat tick xd. Also rotating the slider woudn't change much tbh it would just make it a pain in the *** to re-arange :p
the head of this has a weaker sound then the slider end in my opinion 00:51:046 (1) - same goes for these 00:52:379 (2,3) -
you had them emphasized on slider heads before so it I think both breaks expectations (not in a obvious way)
and is more unintuitiv since clicking a stronger sound is more intuitive then releasing it.

an easy solution would be to ctrl + S this slider 00:51:046 (1) - and disable the X-axis, then more these to have their heads on the lead sounds and finally change the hitsounds accordingly

if you do that there will be a left out gap between these 2 00:52:713 (3,4) - fair enough, changed the sldier after the long on,
the long one itself is fine since imo. Also ctrl + S saves the map xD are you sure that was the shortcut you wanted :p

thanks for mod owO but for future reference please use less spaced out mods, it's really annoying going through them :p

[ L u k a s ] wrote:
Hello, here's my mod
From my queue

Cool

00:05:796 (1) - Why put a slider here, you should put it at 00:09:713 - too much rhythm on the 9th second and i coudn't end it in the restricted time gap of 1/1, also ending it on it is p cool too

Other than that, seems pretty clean.

Thanks for mods xd

https://puu.sh/vg05p/cb6bde4c9c.osu

Last edited by C00L 2017-04-15T01:12:47+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Damnjelly

163 posts

Joined June 2012

Damnjelly 2017-04-14T20:03:14+00:00

Celektus wrote:
[Damnjelly's Soaring]

this jump is bigger 00:36:046 (1,2) - than this one 00:37:379 (1,2) -
So the 2nd should be bigger since it still should consistently be bigger than these 00:36:546 (3,4,5,6,7) -

same 00:48:046 (1,2) - and here too 00:52:046 (1,2) - This and above i changed.

these are very unrelated throught movment I feel like 00:41:379 (8,1,2) - not sure how to approach fixing that, but to me that's a important thing that should be fixed I used different movement to emphasize a change in the song.

this combo is kinda unnecessarily big 00:52:046 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - Whoops, i probably forgot tho add combo when remapping it, fixed!

Thanks for the mod!

yf_bmp

Elite Storyboarder II / Elite Mapper

1,630 posts

Joined December 2011

yf_bmp 2017-04-18T06:01:03+00:00

Celektus wrote:
[yf's Expert]

I only encountered a few very consistent triples that I think have strong sounds in them that could be emphasized through spacing without hurting the maps structure too much,
but I have this thought in the back of my head that those are very intentional. So it would be nice if you could explain if these get emphasis throught something else
or what the intend is. If it's "just" for the visuals maybe explain how that makes the map better in your opinion.

cs5 mapping is truly an indescribable thing, and I'm not an expert on it, but I know some keys. First is 'Be consistent, and pay attention to structure'. Make the map or parts consistent (including rhythm, spacing and pattern). Every objects should be put after careful consideration around other parts but not only follow one part. Second is 'Do not just follow the flow, avoid casual acute angle jumps'
recommend to have a look at this one: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/111302

these are I think 2 strong sounds 00:15:713 (1,3) - but only 1 is being jumped into.
2 into 3 could be a jump too I think. 3 also has a Snare sound on it and my suggestion migth conflict with your intended visuals, but it would be fitting as a jump I think.

I would suggest moving it between these 2 in a line 00:15:379 (2,2) - or these 2 00:15:546 (3,2) -
the 2nd option would have shorter spacing into the next slider,
but I'm not sure how relevant that might be since it being a 1/1 to me seems like a good justification either way

same here ofc 00:18:712 (3) - but my solution might not apply again with the current position of that triple

and here moving it in a line would give the following slider more spacing emphasis 00:26:713 (3,1) - I think that kinda fits in that part, but maybe you'd disagree

↑I can explain those three in one reason:00:15:379 (2,3,1,2,3) - 00:18:045 (1,2,1,2,3) - 00:26:046 (1,2,1,2,3) - i kept them for consistent.
I think the red tick in this gap could be mapped with a stack or a triangle 00:27:379 (3,4) - but I also think the emphasis the triple gets is nice too so decide for yourself.
also I mean a triangle between these 00:27:379 (3,4,1) - won't add anything. in order to prominent 00:27:713 (4,5,6,1) - this unusual rhythm.

these 2 circles in those triples always seem to have a Lead on them that could be emphasized throught spacing 00:36:046 (5,6) -
will fix this.
why are these jumps? 00:37:046 (3) - 00:38:379 (3) - 00:35:546 (2,3,4) - 00:36:879 (2,3,4) - 00:38:213 (2,3,4) - they are consistent and increasing.

in case having these sounds always be represented by small triples or in lines is a concept why are these in a big triangle then? 00:46:713 (1,2) -

and why has this the same spacing as the Lead sounds? 00:46:879 (2,1) -
or why is this small now? 00:46:380 (1,2) - so many questions I know 00:46:380 (1,2,1,2,1) - 00:47:713 (1,2,1,2,1) -
consistent

if you listen closely this has a weird Snare sound on it 00:55:546 (3) - like this one 00:54:046 (2) - or this one 00:54:713 (3) - .
Not sure how weird it would be to have one hitsound in the stream be a soft clap, but it would be mapped to a sound in the song added clap

this is mapped to nothing 01:23:824 (3) - 01:24:935 (2) - it did map to something. you need headphone

these blips could have a dedicated hitsound 01:21:268 (1,1,1) - you are right but it's not such needed

thx

SPOILER

osu file format v14

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Title:Far east nightbird
TitleUnicode:Far east nightbird
Artist:Nekomata Master
ArtistUnicode:猫叉Master
Creator:HighTec
Version:yf's Expert
Source:jubeat knit
Tags:damnjelly yf_bmp mazziv mir lowcombofc arphimigon xlolicore- kujinn c00l
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127,139,4213,1,2,0:0:0:0:
204,276,4379,5,4,0:3:0:0:
204,276,4713,1,8,1:0:0:0:
270,266,4879,2,0,B|204:276,1,67.5000025749208,2|2,0:0|2:0,0:0:0:0:
192,296,5129,1,0,3:2:0:0:
192,296,5213,1,4,0:3:0:0:
72,240,5379,37,8,1:0:0:0:
248,340,5546,1,0,3:0:0:0:
252,344,5629,1,0,3:0:0:0:
256,348,5713,2,0,B|345:333,1,67.5000025749208,8|0,1:1|0:3,0:0:0:0:
464,352,6046,5,4,0:3:0:0:
396,308,6213,1,4,0:3:0:0:
472,212,6379,1,0,3:0:0:0:
480,216,6463,2,0,P|488:200|488:180,1,33.7500012874604,8|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
432,48,6629,1,0,3:0:0:0:
423,48,6713,2,0,P|424:65|434:83,1,33.7500012874604,8|0,1:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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188,288,9213,1,0,3:0:0:0:
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224,192,9796,1,0,3:0:0:0:
192,192,9879,1,0,3:0:0:0:
192,224,9963,1,0,3:0:0:0:
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256,128,10379,1,0,3:0:0:0:
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192,128,10546,2,0,L|192:160,1,26.9999991760254,0|0,3:0|2:0,0:0:0:0:
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320,192,10879,1,0,3:0:0:0:
320,160,10963,1,0,3:0:0:0:
320,128,11046,2,0,L|288:128,1,26.9999991760254,0|0,3:0|2:0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,11213,5,0,3:0:0:0:
256,224,11296,1,0,3:0:0:0:
256,256,11379,1,0,3:0:0:0:
288,256,11463,1,0,3:0:0:0:
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192,128,11879,2,0,L|192:160,1,26.9999991760254,0|0,3:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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320,256,12213,2,0,L|320:224,1,26.9999991760254,0|0,3:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,12379,22,0,B|160:192|160:192|128:224,1,135.000005149842,4|0,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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48,332,13213,2,0,L|106:332,1,58.4999973220826,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
256,332,13379,5,8,0:0:0:0:
320,332,13463,1,2,0:0:0:0:
384,332,13546,1,2,0:0:0:0:
448,332,13629,1,2,0:0:0:0:
512,332,13713,6,0,P|501:280|508:216,1,101.250003862381,4|0,1:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
512,212,14046,1,8,0:0:0:0:
480,140,14213,1,0,3:0:0:0:
300,60,14379,5,0,0:0:0:0:
368,104,14546,1,4,0:3:0:0:
440,68,14713,2,0,B|452:40|452:40|448:0,1,67.5000025749208,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
372,24,14963,1,0,0:0:0:0:
372,24,15046,37,4,0:3:0:0:
372,24,15379,1,8,0:0:0:0:
292,140,15546,1,0,3:0:0:0:
156,104,15713,5,0,0:0:0:0:
100,44,15879,1,4,0:3:0:0:
180,24,16046,1,8,0:0:0:0:
0,332,16379,38,0,P|10:280|4:216,1,101.250003862381,4|0,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
0,212,16712,1,8,0:0:0:0:
32,140,16879,1,0,3:0:0:0:
212,60,17045,5,0,0:0:0:0:
144,104,17212,1,4,0:3:0:0:
72,68,17379,2,0,B|60:40|60:40|64:0,1,67.5000025749208,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
140,24,17629,1,0,0:0:0:0:
140,24,17713,6,0,L|252:16,1,90,2|0,1:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
140,24,18045,21,8,0:0:0:0:
220,140,18212,1,0,3:0:0:0:
356,104,18379,5,0,0:0:0:0:
412,44,18545,1,4,0:3:0:0:
332,24,18712,1,8,0:0:0:0:
220,140,18879,1,4,0:3:0:0:
260,140,18962,1,8,0:0:0:0:
292,164,19046,1,4,0:3:0:0:
376,288,19213,6,2,P|431:301|476:208,1,161.999995056153,0|8,0:0|0:0,0:1:0:0:
265,231,19546,6,2,P|299:298|374:289,1,161.999995056153,0|4,0:0|2:3,0:1:0:0:
416,236,19796,1,0,0:3:0:0:
416,236,19879,5,4,0:3:0:0:
380,364,20046,1,8,0:0:0:0:
380,364,20213,1,0,3:0:0:0:
332,236,20379,5,4,0:3:0:0:
380,364,20546,2,4,P|373:334|378:290,1,45,4|0,0:3|0:0,0:3:0:0:
265,231,20713,2,2,P|259:252|258:275,1,45,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:1:0:0:
292,348,20880,1,0,3:0:0:0:
452,328,21046,1,4,0:3:0:0:
452,328,21129,1,8,0:0:0:0:
60,328,21379,1,8,0:0:0:0:
452,328,21713,38,0,B|492:344|492:344|464:240,1,135,4|0,0:3|2:0,0:0:0:0:
463,238,22046,2,2,L|472:192,1,45,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:1:0:0:
456,44,22213,1,0,3:0:0:0:
488,116,22379,1,0,0:0:0:0:
488,116,22546,1,4,0:3:0:0:
488,116,22713,1,8,0:0:0:0:
340,200,22879,1,0,0:0:0:0:
176,144,23046,5,4,0:3:0:0:
336,192,23213,1,8,0:0:0:0:
168,224,23379,1,0,1:0:0:0:
204,220,23463,1,2,0:0:0:0:
232,200,23546,2,0,L|244:240,1,22.5,0|0,1:0|1:0,0:0:0:0:
248,168,23629,2,0,L|268:188,1,22.5,0|0,1:0|1:0,0:0:0:0:
252,132,23713,37,0,1:0:0:0:
240,100,23796,1,2,0:2:0:0:
208,76,23879,1,2,0:2:0:0:
164,68,23963,1,8,0:2:0:0:
120,88,24046,1,4,0:3:0:0:
100,136,24129,1,2,0:2:0:0:
116,192,24213,1,8,0:2:0:0:
168,224,24296,1,2,0:2:0:0:
232,200,24379,22,0,B|264:192|264:192|312:220|312:220|339:213,1,116.999994644165,12|0,0:2|2:0,0:0:0:0:
405,126,24602,2,0,B|395:157|395:157|347:185|347:185|339:212,1,116.999994644165,8|0,0:2|2:0,0:0:0:0:
380,313,24824,2,0,B|358:288|358:288|357:233|357:233|338:212,1,116.999994644165,8|0,0:2|2:0,0:0:0:0:
336,108,25046,2,0,L|352:64,1,45
376,0,25213,1,4,0:3:0:0:
405,126,25379,1,4,0:3:0:0:
272,72,25546,6,0,B|223:59|223:59|151:102|151:102|111:91,1,175.499991966248,4|0,1:2|2:0,0:0:0:0:
110,91,26046,21,8,0:0:0:0:
54,214,26213,1,0,3:0:0:0:
136,320,26379,37,0,0:0:0:0:
212,308,26546,1,4,0:3:0:0:
164,248,26713,1,8,0:0:0:0:
164,248,27046,5,4,0:3:0:0:
284,336,27213,2,2,B|292:333|300:338|300:338|306:327|317:336|317:336|326:327|339:328,1,58.4999973220826,8|0,0:0|2:3,1:1:0:0:
412,316,27379,1,4,0:3:0:0:
412,316,27713,1,2,0:0:0:0:
396,284,27796,1,2,0:0:0:0:
400,248,27879,1,0,0:0:0:0:
420,220,27963,6,0,P|380:264|312:248,1,116.999994644165,4|0,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
264,240,28213,2,0,P|304:196|372:212,1,116.999994644165,2|4,1:3|0:3,0:0:0:0:
380,384,28546,21,0,3:0:0:0:
212,308,28713,1,8,0:0:0:0:
284,348,28879,1,4,0:3:0:0:
284,348,28963,1,2,0:2:0:0:
284,348,29046,5,0,0:0:0:0:
212,308,29213,1,4,0:3:0:0:
132,312,29379,1,8,0:0:0:0:
68,360,29546,1,4,0:3:0:0:
52,328,29629,1,8,0:0:0:0:
52,292,29713,1,4,0:3:0:0:
68,260,29796,6,0,B|72:224|72:224|72:184,1,67.5000025749208,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
140,72,29963,2,0,B|136:108|136:108|136:148,1,67.5000025749208,2|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
140,148,30213,6,0,P|215:57|109:4,1,270.000010299683,4|4,1:2|0:3,0:0:0:0:
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140,72,30879,1,0,3:0:0:0:
140,72,31046,1,4,0:3:0:0:
140,72,31379,5,8,0:0:0:0:
184,144,31546,1,0,3:0:0:0:
256,108,31713,2,0,L|256:60,1,33.7500012874604
328,144,31879,1,4,0:3:0:0:
372,72,32046,1,8,0:0:0:0:
100,144,32379,37,4,0:3:0:0:
412,144,32713,1,8,0:0:0:0:
328,144,32879,1,0,3:0:0:0:
208,256,33046,2,0,B|164:256|164:256|128:284|128:284|82:284,2,135,4|4|8,0:3|0:3|0:2,0:0:0:0:
184,144,33713,6,0,L|161:144,2,22.5,4|0|0,0:3|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
304,256,33879,1,8,0:0:0:0:
208,256,34046,1,4,0:3:0:0:
328,144,34213,1,8,1:0:0:0:
328,152,34296,1,8,1:0:0:0:
328,160,34379,5,0,1:0:0:0:
360,164,34463,1,10,0:2:0:0:
392,168,34546,1,4,0:3:0:0:
424,172,34629,1,0,0:2:0:0:
448,240,34713,5,8,0:2:0:0:
464,248,34796,1,2,0:0:0:0:
480,240,34879,1,2,0:0:0:0:
464,232,34963,1,2,0:2:0:0:
448,240,35046,6,0,L|464:376,1,135.000005149842,4|8,1:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
463,374,35546,1,0,3:0:0:0:
336,284,35713,1,0,0:0:0:0:
200,360,35879,1,4,0:3:0:0:
140,336,36046,1,8,0:0:0:0:
276,308,36213,1,2,0:0:0:0:
132,268,36379,6,0,L|148:132,1,135.000005149842,4|8,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
147,133,36879,1,0,3:0:0:0:
332,216,37046,1,0,0:0:0:0:
436,40,37213,1,4,0:3:0:0:
496,64,37380,1,8,0:0:0:0:
392,192,37546,1,2,0:0:0:0:
504,132,37713,38,0,L|488:268,1,135.000005149842,4|8,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
488,266,38213,1,0,3:0:0:0:
380,80,38379,1,0,0:0:0:0:
180,160,38546,1,4,0:3:0:0:
232,208,38713,2,0,P|247:178|248:145,1,67.5000025749208,10|0,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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92,32,39213,1,4,0:3:0:0:
136,84,39379,2,0,L|208:92,1,67.5000025749208,10|0,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
312,172,39713,37,2,0:0:0:0:
248,145,39880,1,4,0:3:0:0:
203,91,40046,2,0,L|131:83,1,67.5000025749208,10|4,0:2|0:3,0:0:0:0:
72,96,40296,1,2,0:0:0:0:
72,96,40379,1,4,0:3:0:0:
248,145,40546,22,2,P|292:144|328:120,1,90,0|8,0:0|0:0,0:1:0:0:
400,12,40879,38,0,L|392:168,1,135,0|4,0:0|0:3,0:0:0:0:
360,256,41379,2,0,P|360:289|384:328,1,67.5000025749208,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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444,340,41713,37,4,0:3:0:0:
292,312,41879,1,4,0:3:0:0:
428,272,42046,2,0,L|436:192,1,67.5000025749208,10|0,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
492,288,42379,5,2,0:0:0:0:
292,244,42546,1,4,0:3:0:0:
434,204,42713,2,0,L|430:80,1,101.250003862381,10|0,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
430,80,43046,37,4,0:3:0:0:
430,80,43379,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,132,43546,1,0,3:0:0:0:
112,24,43713,5,0,0:0:0:0:
188,0,43879,1,4,0:3:0:0:
172,80,44046,1,8,0:0:0:0:
172,80,44379,37,4,0:3:0:0:
256,220,44546,1,4,0:3:0:0:
340,80,44713,1,8,0:0:0:0:
180,196,44879,21,2,0:0:0:0:
176,212,44935,1,2,0:0:0:0:
176,228,44991,1,0,0:0:0:0:
180,244,45046,1,0,0:0:0:0:
332,244,45213,5,4,0:3:0:0:
336,228,45268,1,2,0:0:0:0:
336,212,45324,1,0,0:0:0:0:
332,196,45380,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,220,45546,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,220,45629,1,8,0:0:0:0:
256,220,45713,6,0,L|240:356,1,135.000005149842,4|8,1:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
240,354,46213,1,0,3:0:0:0:
72,332,46380,5,0,0:0:0:0:
136,308,46546,1,4,0:3:0:0:
256,220,46713,37,8,0:0:0:0:
100,148,46880,1,2,0:0:0:0:
260,88,47046,5,4,0:3:0:0:
260,88,47213,1,4,0:3:0:0:
260,88,47379,2,0,L|272:172,1,67.5000025749208,8|0,0:2|3:0,0:0:0:0:
256,220,47629,1,0,3:0:0:0:
256,220,47713,37,0,0:0:0:0:
320,200,47880,1,4,0:3:0:0:
460,120,48047,5,8,0:0:0:0:
260,88,48214,1,2,0:0:0:0:
408,0,48380,38,0,L|392:136,1,135.000005149842,4|8,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
392,134,48880,1,0,3:0:0:0:
372,284,49046,5,4,0:3:0:0:
308,264,49213,1,4,0:3:0:0:
160,356,49380,2,0,P|193:355|222:339,1,67.5000025749208,10|0,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
372,284,49713,37,2,1:3:0:0:
240,272,49880,1,4,0:3:0:0:
112,308,50046,2,0,P|78:307|49:291,1,67.5000025749208,10|0,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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152,151,50547,1,4,0:3:0:0:
197,205,50713,2,0,L|269:213,1,67.5000025749208,10|4,0:2|0:3,0:0:0:0:
308,264,50963,1,0,3:0:0:0:
308,264,51046,1,4,0:3:0:0:
112,308,51213,6,2,P|68:309|32:333,1,90,0|8,0:0|0:0,0:1:0:0:
172,337,51546,22,0,L|196:205,1,135.000005149842,0|4,0:0|0:3,0:0:0:0:
265,86,52046,2,0,P|265:53|241:14,1,67.5000025749208,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
181,2,52380,5,4,0:3:0:0:
333,30,52546,1,4,0:3:0:0:
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384,300,54213,1,0,3:0:0:0:
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429,158,54546,1,4,0:3:0:0:
459,234,54713,1,8,1:0:0:0:
464,240,55046,6,0,P|436:240|412:228,1,45,4|0,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
260,164,55213,2,0,P|237:162|216:170,1,45,4|0,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
115,356,55379,37,0,1:0:0:0:
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141,234,55713,1,0,1:0:0:0:
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Vivyanne

1,215 posts

Joined December 2013

Topic Starter

Vivyanne 2017-04-18T10:13:09+00:00

updated everything up until now! fixed stuff for lolicore as well with permission

kujinn is left :eyes:

Kujinn

1,382 posts

Joined December 2013

Kujinn 2017-04-18T15:21:09+00:00

Celektus wrote:
[Kujinn's Hard]
this is the only jump so far 00:52:713 (2,1) - I assume it's unintentional intentional
I see that you're trying to emphasize the Snares with doubles here 00:56:713 (2,3,4) - but I think it's slightly confusing to have them be right after a similar thing that the lead does.
1 has only a strong sound on it's head here while 2 has 2 strong strong sounds on both head and end 00:56:379 (1,2) -
so to me it would make more sense to have the lead be represented by a double. just using ctrl + G would probably be not as optimal as it could be,
but in case my next suggestion is too different form your vision I still think that ctrl + G would be better which is really subjective.

The suggestion I was referring to would be to change the whole sections rhythm overall here is how I would do the rhythm.
Disclaimer it's only one section
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I'm sure you could remove some notes or add sliders here without disregarding any changes, but decide for yourself I'll explain a few decisions to give more single suggestions to take

- the major Repetition of the lead every 2 big white ticks always has a slider at the start since there is a really strong sound

- on ride cymbals is also always a slider

- there is no kick on any slider end (except for 1/4 triple thing parts)

- every 2nd bar (big white tick) has 2 sliders indicating a lead repetition followed by a slider into the first slider of the major lead Repetition

ok back to the mod now lol

I don't really want to overcomplicate a simplified rhythm, I'll make the change if suggested again.
I would remove this one 01:09:713 (1) - for better emphasis of this 01:09:879 (2) -

I personally find it weird to have a 1/4 gap here 01:30:713 (5,1) - you introduced it before so it's probably justified enough, but I'm wondering why only here and nowhere else? It's just more suitable here I guess. I don't really have a reason why.

I think this might need more justification 01:37:046 (1,2,3,4) - at least I think that a square is very different from most angles of circles you had before.
a good example would be the pattern right next to it 01:37:379 (3,4,1) - those are all in 60° angles and most other patterns you made usually don't go below 90°
or go at least consistently above it. If you can point out some 90° angles I'd be perfectly fine, but otherwise I think that Square is unjustified.
not sure about rankability I assume it's fine in that regard

thanks for mod

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431,131,99213,1,4,0:3:0:0:
360,63,99379,2,0,P|320:52|277:64,1,65,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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154,51,100046,2,0,P|123:40|91:43,1,65,8|2,0:2|0:2,0:0:0:0:
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120,200,100713,2,0,P|100:241|97:273,1,65,0|2,1:0|3:0,0:0:0:0:
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51,346,101129,1,0,0:0:0:0:
51,346,101213,1,4,0:3:0:0:
147,337,101379,2,0,L|258:332,1,97.5,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
293,330,101713,6,0,P|322:302|334:255,1,65,4|4,0:3|0:3,0:0:0:0:
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416,375,102379,1,4,0:3:0:0:
416,375,102463,1,0,0:0:0:0:
416,375,102546,1,4,0:3:0:0:
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68,253,104546,5,4,0:3:0:0:
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222,128,105379,2,0,L|152:134,1,65,8|2,0:0|2:2,0:0:0:0:
193,224,105713,6,0,P|188:264|206:306,1,65,4|2,2:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
268,350,106046,1,8,0:0:0:0:
268,350,106129,1,0,0:0:0:0:
268,350,106213,1,0,0:0:0:0:
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419,156,106713,6,0,L|410:64,1,65,8|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
329,40,107046,1,4,0:3:0:0:
329,40,107129,1,0,0:0:0:0:
329,40,107213,1,4,0:3:0:0:
257,105,107379,2,0,P|252:150|265:181,1,65,8|4,0:0|0:3,0:0:0:0:
320,243,107713,5,2,0:0:0:0:
242,301,107879,1,4,0:3:0:0:
157,252,108046,1,8,0:0:0:0:
80,312,108213,1,8,0:0:0:0:
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184,134,109713,2,0,L|192:42,2,65.0000024795533,0|0|0,3:2|3:0|3:0,0:0:0:0:
272,99,110379,6,0,L|278:12,1,65,0|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
370,5,110713,1,0,1:0:0:0:
370,5,110796,1,0,1:0:0:0:
370,5,110879,1,0,1:0:0:0:
425,85,111046,6,0,P|382:158|408:220,1,130,12|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
440,282,111546,6,0,L|303:270,1,130,12|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
213,257,112046,6,0,P|194:221|181:277,1,130,12|0,1:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:

Vivyanne

1,215 posts

Joined December 2013

Topic Starter

Vivyanne 2017-04-29T09:56:07+00:00

made some changes together with Damnjelly to improve the general quality of the map

BN time

Arphimigon

1,650 posts

Joined December 2014

Arphimigon 2017-05-01T20:08:59+00:00

[ L u k a s ] wrote:
Arphi
00:13:713 (1,2) - Don't do overlaps like these, it might be hard for new players. Helped me out a ton when I was new, never regretted it years later.
00:28:213 (2) - This rhythm is hard for new players Even the tutorial says look at the APPROACH CIRCLE + theres lots of time, there is no excuse for doing bad on this but a lack of practice <3
00:29:713 (1) - End of this slider should be clickable ez diff I dont want too many clicks yo
00:33:713 (4,5,1) - Rhythm too hard. Disagre
00:58:379 (3,4) - Put (4) closer to (3) for better spacing Symettry has a nice effect on the brain of magically being able to understand spacing!
01:29:046 (3) - Put this as a 1/1 slider instead No space but I'd like to see how you'd do it!

Swerro

220 posts

Joined June 2014

Swerro 2017-05-14T22:40:27+00:00

Answer this mod

Damnjelly's Soaring:

00:26:379 Not sure why you choose this slider to end on a blue tick instead of the red one. I can hear a drumsound on the red tick but nothing on the blue one you should reconsider the slider length here.

01:50:062 Listen closely, try slow playback rate. The actual returnslider / the actual 1/6th sounds start at the white tick (01:50:713). You should shorten it to there and place a circle on the original start of the return slider.

01:52:546 Are you sure you don't want to put a spinner at the end? You can still hear some sounds and it's not mapped to anything. Could also be used as sort of an 'ode' to the casual mapping, which could be very well used with all these hipster patterns

Alsjeblieft joren

Damnjelly

163 posts

Joined June 2012

Damnjelly 2017-05-17T16:45:14+00:00

Swerro wrote:
Answer this mod

Damnjelly's Soaring:

00:26:379 Not sure why you choose this slider to end on a blue tick instead of the red one. I can hear a drumsound on the red tick but nothing on the blue one you should reconsider the slider length here. Because i'm following the zoom-ish sound instead of the drum, also i did it 00:21:046 (8,9) - here and 00:15:713 (5,6) - here aswell.

01:50:062 Listen closely, try slow playback rate. The actual returnslider / the actual 1/6th sounds start at the white tick (01:50:713). You should shorten it to there and place a circle on the original start of the return slider. I'm not sure what you mean, maybe your timing points are off?

01:52:546 Are you sure you don't want to put a spinner at the end? You can still hear some sounds and it's not mapped to anything. Could also be used as sort of an 'ode' to the casual mapping, which could be very well used with all these hipster patterns The rest didn't do it, so I don't see why I should do it.

Alsjeblieft J̶o̶r̶e̶n̶ Damnjelly

thanks for the mod

Vivyanne

1,215 posts

Joined December 2013

Topic Starter

Vivyanne 2017-05-17T17:18:01+00:00

Damnjelly wrote:
Swerro wrote:
01:50:062 Listen closely, try slow playback rate. The actual returnslider / the actual 1/6th sounds start at the white tick (01:50:713). You should shorten it to there and place a circle on the original start of the return slider. I'm not sure what you mean, maybe your timing points are off? lol swerro i think u meant 01:50:379 (1,1) - which i think he can let be as it is cuz if the timing gap were the actual 1/4 size this would be really annoying to play so as a consistency thing i think this can be kept

Alsjeblieft J̶o̶r̶e̶n̶ Damnjelly
thanks for the mod

Swerro

220 posts

Joined June 2014

Swerro 2017-05-17T18:48:20+00:00

lol swerro i think u meant 01:50:379 (1,1) - which i think he can let be as it is cuz if the timing gap were the actual 1/4 size this would be really annoying to play so as a consistency thing i think this can be kept

Yes

Just the noobs need to learn how to play a map to the rhythm. It's only natural that a player needs to know how the song goes before one can acc it correctly.

Disgusting to see these days that the (unwritten) guidelines on consistency/readableness make these kind of rhythmic perfections unrankable and force mappers to go with simplistic unrhythmic note placement like poor Damnjelly has to do now :'(

Hollow Delta

793 posts

Joined March 2015

Hollow Delta 2017-06-19T21:54:13+00:00

From the Modding Association Discord.

Damnjelly's Soaring

00:11:713 (1,2,3,4,5) - The spacing here is too large to be supported. It's the same as 00:10:213 (1,2,3,4,5) - so I don't understand the variation. Also, why mute these? As said before, they're the same as the previous streams so the variation makes no sense.

00:14:713 (4) - You missed a clap here.

00:15:046 (1,2,3,4) - These aren't properly structured. I tried recreating it like so: https://puu.sh/woM8X/4113baa26a.jpg The highlighted notes are the ones I mentioned.

00:17:046 (3,4,5) - You should hitsound these so you bring out the fluctuation in the rhythm better. I normally use soft whistles for these.

00:25:379 (2) - This rhythm is incorrect. As shown by your hitsounds the emphasis is on the tail. Generally speaking tails end on notes weaker than the ones they started on.

00:25:713 (1,2,3,4) - That movement from 2-3 is unexpected as it's a new idea which wasn't used before. Easy fix would be to ctrl+g on 3-4 but that pattern isn't very pretty. I'd redo it.

00:33:796 (4,5) - You need to hitsound 4 to bring out the background.

00:36:213 (2,4) - There's a problem with your structure here. Move one of them slightly.

00:43:046 (1,3) - Considering how close these sliders are on the timeline, we can see both of them on screen. Based on that, we need them to compliment each other. How I keep patterns like these looking nice is I copy 1 and get rid of all but the first 2 nodes to make it a simple straight slider. I then copy and ctrl+s from there.

00:44:713 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - There's a problem with the rhythm here. While use the 1/6 here is supported, your transition to it makes no sense. Turning 1 into a hitcircle allows the player to prepare for 1/6. Because the slider ended on a 1/2 tick it'll confuse them when they transition to 1/6. For different measure streams I like this I like to apply a unique color / color pattern to them so the player can contrast. Since these are stacks had no openings for uniqueness, not much you can really do to make this more intuitive besides redoing the pattern itself. Plus the random 1/2 slider 00:45:046 (4) - doesn't make it any better. You can't change measures for just one note like that, as no where else in the song does it support that. With some hitsounding the easiest fix would be to change this whole pattern into 1/3 or 1/6, as the player can see that.

00:45:713 (1,2,3,4,5) - This is where your structure disappears. There's no correlation between the jumps and the slider at all. Easy fix would be to copy the slider and using ctrl+s you can treat this as a ruler for placing your jumps. The structure of to 00:55:379 - seems out of wack so take this suggestion more seriously than my other ones.

01:15:463 (3) - Soft whistle here so the player has feedback on the fluctuation.

01:19:935 (4,1,2) - This is far too simplified to make sense. Best place to put a stream if anything.

Ultra

Just from first glance there are multiple problems with the structure.

The notes aren't placed on a grid / plane as seen from the fact none of the notes line up. (Ex. 00:02:546 (2) - ) Reality is it's hard to point out major issues as the whole diff itself is unstructured.

A thing on the slider angles. How does 00:02:546 (2,3) - look good? The slider partially contradicts what direction is shown.. If the slider completely faced the opposite way then that's a good idea in some cases, but for this the idea is to curve the slider with the flow. (More Ex. 00:19:546 (3,4) - )

That's all I have to say for now.

gl

Damnjelly

163 posts

Joined June 2012

Damnjelly 2017-06-25T17:20:14+00:00

Bubblun wrote:
From the Modding Association Discord.

Damnjelly's Soaring

00:11:713 (1,2,3,4,5) - The spacing here is too large to be supported. It's the same as 00:10:213 (1,2,3,4,5) - so I don't understand the variation. Also, why mute these? As said before, they're the same as the previous streams so the variation makes no sense. It was meant to be a buildup to the next part of the song, but maybe i've gone a little far with it. Dummed it down a bit

00:14:713 (4) - You missed a clap here. I'll notify hightec about the hitsound issues, i think he forgot to put the old hitsounds on the modded parts. I won't be replying to the rest of the hitsound issues because of this.

00:15:046 (1,2,3,4) - These aren't properly structured. I tried recreating it like so: https://puu.sh/woM8X/4113baa26a.jpg The highlighted notes are the ones I mentioned. I'm not sure if i follow. The way you would want it structured puts extra emphasis on a part that is mostely of the same intensity, thats why i'd rather keep it like it is now.

00:17:046 (3,4,5) - You should hitsound these so you bring out the fluctuation in the rhythm better. I normally use soft whistles for these.

00:25:379 (2) - This rhythm is incorrect. As shown by your hitsounds the emphasis is on the tail. Generally speaking tails end on notes weaker than the ones they started on. Fixed.

00:25:713 (1,2,3,4) - That movement from 2-3 is unexpected as it's a new idea which wasn't used before. Easy fix would be to ctrl+g on 3-4 but that pattern isn't very pretty. I'd redo it. I changed it, it also wasn't consistent with the last section which had the same sounds.

00:33:796 (4,5) - You need to hitsound 4 to bring out the background.

00:36:213 (2,4) - There's a problem with your structure here. Move one of them slightly. Fixed.

00:43:046 (1,3) - Considering how close these sliders are on the timeline, we can see both of them on screen. Based on that, we need them to compliment each other. How I keep patterns like these looking nice is I copy 1 and get rid of all but the first 2 nodes to make it a simple straight slider. I then copy and ctrl+s from there. Changed.

00:44:713 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - There's a problem with the rhythm here. While use the 1/6 here is supported, your transition to it makes no sense. Turning 1 into a hitcircle allows the player to prepare for 1/6. Because the slider ended on a 1/2 tick it'll confuse them when they transition to 1/6. For different measure streams I like this I like to apply a unique color / color pattern to them so the player can contrast. Since these are stacks had no openings for uniqueness, not much you can really do to make this more intuitive besides redoing the pattern itself. Plus the random 1/2 slider 00:45:046 (4) - doesn't make it any better. You can't change measures for just one note like that, as no where else in the song does it support that. With some hitsounding the easiest fix would be to change this whole pattern into 1/3 or 1/6, as the player can see that. Changed.

00:45:713 (1,2,3,4,5) - This is where your structure disappears. There's no correlation between the jumps and the slider at all. Easy fix would be to copy the slider and using ctrl+s you can treat this as a ruler for placing your jumps. The structure of to 00:55:379 - seems out of wack so take this suggestion more seriously than my other ones. I don't think there is anything wrong with my structure here. The first section of that part (up to here 00:49:379) has 1 slider followed with 5 notes in a back and forth motion, after those 5 circles, there is a slider that does not follow that back and forth fashion, to put emphasis on the fact that the new section of 1 slider and 5 circles start. in the jump part after, (00:50:879) it changes circular flow at the points where the song changes a bit, then these (00:51:213 (3,4,5,6,7) - ) are back and forth because i think the song supports it. Then the pattern changes to signal a change in the song and you get to the following part. (00:52:213) Here i feel like you're right, its underemphasised so i changed it a little. Furthermore 00:54:379 (3,4,5,1,2) - i don't think this part of the song calls for intensive jumps apart from the last 2 circles before the stream, becaues the drum kicks in at that point. Hope i made myself clear enough!

01:15:463 (3) - Soft whistle here so the player has feedback on the fluctuation.

01:19:935 (4,1,2) - This is far too simplified to make sense. Best place to put a stream if anything. I don't think it fits the intensity of that part.

Thanks for the mod!

BanchoBot

w00t p00t

34,830 posts

Here since the beginning

BanchoBot 2018-06-14T04:23:37+00:00

This modding thread has been migrated to the new "modding discussions" system. Please make sure to re-post any existing (and unresolved) efforts to the new system as required.

Nekomata Master - Far east nightbird

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Nekomata Master - Far east nightbird

Celektus wrote:

Mazziv wrote:

Celektus wrote:

C00L wrote:

HighTec wrote:

Celektus wrote:

[ L u k a s ] wrote:

Celektus wrote:

Celektus wrote:

Celektus wrote:

[ L u k a s ] wrote:

Swerro wrote:

Damnjelly wrote:

Swerro wrote:

Bubblun wrote:

New reply