Star priority shouldn't be a requirement at all. There are a lot of fun shitmaps that don't have any SP. The loved section should be for maps people love, not just for mappers who have tons of kudosu stored up.

Might be better to scale # of favourites according to the mode involved, because I doubt taiko/ctb/mania get as much favourite attention as standard.

I like the concept of having a currency for SP though! I wonder if there will be other uses for SP down the road .

tbh it would make alot more sense if it was 100 favourites and 30 sp instead lol

Let me throw 100 stars on my friend's map

Kibbleru wrote:

tbh it would make alot more sense if it was 100 favourites and 30 sp instead lol

i'm agree... but STILL being too much... Can be more like 50 or 45 favs and 25 SP.... cuz no one want to waste the SP on a map what is not going to rank xd

[_Chichinya_] wrote:

Kibbleru wrote:

tbh it would make alot more sense if it was 100 favourites and 30 sp instead lol

i'm agree... but STILL being too much... Can be more like 50 or 45 favs and 25 SP.... cuz no one want to waste the SP on a map what is not going to rank xd

But also nearly no one gives stars to 12SP+ maps. And why would they do that (except for showing a sign of appreciation towards the mapper)?
SP currently means absolutely nothing, if it's 13, or 96, nobody would care. It's above 12, so it's rankable

This will finally give a meaning to SP

_DT3 wrote:

Tbh, the system is always going to be unstable, whether it's based off of SP or favorites, but what sense does it make to get a map Loved if it isn't even liked in the first place.

Due a new model to nominate map state, this period of unstable is inevitable. I hope the BNs or any Committed to indicate the maps as Loved state hear our prayers For a fairer and more balanced system.

Monstrata wrote:

Might be better to scale # of favourites according to the mode involved, because I doubt taiko/ctb/mania get as much favourite attention as standard. .

^^

personally i don't like the favorites thing too much. probably because i have a bunch of 5 to 15 favorite maps in my favorites i'd like to see a scoreboard on.
sp makes sense though; people who want to see their favorite map in loved would be encouraged to take up modding, helping out the mapping community in the process

Favorites are practically moot outside of standard, where even the popular graveyard mappers seldom get above 20, and often stick below 10. Just, as an example, I'll use the 7kMWC 2016 quarterfinals mappool. Considering they were used in an official tournament, these are all very high quality charts(IMO getting used in an official tournament pool should get the map put in loved automatically but I doubt you'd do that.). Looking at only the 9 unranked maps, the favorites range from at most 63 on Ningen Shikkaku to the lowest at only 4 on Fryzura Konika. Of those 9 charts, 4 of them have 4 or 5 favorites, making up almost half of the unranked maps in the pool. On average, these nine maps have a little under 19 favorites; if you didn't include Ningen Shikkaku, which had almost 30 more favorites than the next highest map (Valhalla) this would drop to about 13 favorites. If you want to have a set amount of favorites for other modes, id say 15 or 20 favorites is generally what good maps from good mappers will peak at if they get lucky, usually ending up a good bit lower than that.

I also don't really like it for standard but I don't feel like going into depth about that atm, mostly stuff about how most things experimental get a huge disadvantage when it comes to getting favorites, some 'fun vs. good' type complaints, and how this prevents a lot of hidden graveyard gems from getting in, but that last thing is only an issue because I personally don't have the power to get 25 people to favorite a map. I think setting the required amount to 30 favorites or 100 sp would be nice, since sp and favorites often work at odds when it comes to graveyard maps because mappers and players tend to have drastically different tastes. That one really popular jump training map might have a lot of favorites, but it likely has very little sp, and not many of the people who love it so much have the kudosu to donate to get it loved; that one really experimental map might only have 15 favorites, but many of those are from mappers and modders who probably would spam kudos at it considering now it can get the recognition it deserves.

this probably sounds pretty stupid but i hope i got my point across xd

Kibbleru wrote:

tbh it would make alot more sense if it was 100 favourites and 30 sp instead lol

hummm... Im not agree Kibbleru, 100 favs and 30sp feels like a common map that will be ranked yet.
100sp for me, means a lot of effort.
Its true now many modders have A LOT of kudos to expend, but its a resource that will be low in the near future imo.

Not all of the maps that are in loved were intended to try to become ranked, so they never put any SP on it. With this system, they never would have been Lovrf if applied in the beginning. There are a lot of maps that have 0 SP that the community likes to play. What I thought Loved was going to be for, was maps that the community liked to play(maps that get a lot of favorites...). Requiring 100+ SP is just too restrictive.
If there is going to be a SP requirement, it should be lowered a lot. And favorite requirement should be increased.

Also, with ModdingV2 coming soon™, there will eventually be no way for kudosu to be even earned.

Comprehensive list of literally every CtB set from pending, graveyard and WIP that has both 100 SP and 30 favourites:

EDIT: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/427801
WE HAVE A BEATMAP THAT MEETS THE CRITERIA!!!

imo i think this could go 2 ways
people farm kds
people mod more often

So is this a new way to make the map loved? Will there be any votes again?

Loctav wrote:

With this, the regular community votings for Loved will not take place anymore.

Deivedux wrote:

So is this a new way to make the map loved? Will there be any votes again?

OT: Geesh, my phone is bugging out when typing this...

No,the current voting system works pretty stable and fine,rushing undiscussed new way to replace it would do no good to our community.I suppose this method should stay at a sub-alternative way to be further tested and researched.

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/406881
This map is just a simple example to show how unimportant SP is.It has only been modded once by the mapper himself before getting loved and has only 1 star,yet it has one of the biggest fav number among all the CTB-only mapsets.Considering the scale,180 favs in CTB basically equals to 3000 favs in STD in popularity.Nobody would like to see maps like this being forgotten in oblivion due to this rash rigid selecting way.Whether a map is being loved should not ever be judged only by a standard number of favs or SPs.

Ofc the voting system is great, since the community itself can choose which map it wants in Loved category, but that doesn't mean that neither Ephemeral nor Loctav will not look at the map themselves before accepting the aplication for Loving a map (unless they actually won't and will judge by the ammount of stars and etc.).

Mwallx wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/406881
This map is just a simple example to show how unimportant SP is.It has only been modded once by the mapper himself before getting loved and has only 1 star,yet it has one of the biggest fav number among all the CTB-only mapsets.

Even tho they made a new system of loving new maps, they still have to look at the map at least once, to know WHY exactly the community love it so much. I mean, 16* maps shouldn't really be loved since it is very difficult, but I'm not a CTB player so I'm not going to judge the map for now.

Deivedux wrote:

Ofc the voting system is great, since the community itself can choose which map it wants in Loved category, but that doesn't mean that neither Ephemeral nor Loctav will not look at the map themselves before accepting the aplication for Loving a map (unless they actually won't and will judge by the ammount of stars and etc.).

Mwallx wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/406881
This map is just a simple example to show how unimportant SP is.It has only been modded once by the mapper himself before getting loved and has only 1 star,yet it has one of the biggest fav number among all the CTB-only mapsets.

Even tho they made a new system of loving new maps, they still have to look at the map at least once, to know WHY exactly the community love it so much. I mean, 16* maps shouldn't really be loved since it is very difficult, but I'm not a CTB player so I'm not going to judge the map for now.

Such maps are impossible to play in standard (Heck, someone passing a 9* appeared in osu!weekly, do that's quite something), but for the other modes, people can play it. At least in Mania, where I've seen people pass 19* maps, and in CtB, where ExGon FCs a 16*. Not sure on taiko, I think 10* is the limit there

Bara- wrote:

But also nearly no one gives stars to 12SP+ maps. And why would they do that (except for showing a sign of appreciation towards the mapper)?
SP currently means absolutely nothing, if it's 13, or 96, nobody would care. It's above 12, so it's rankable

This will finally give a meaning to SP

Cuz some taiko bn's needs SP to rank some xd that's the criteria for non-friend :S

Mwallx wrote:

No,the current voting system works pretty stable and fine,rushing undiscussed new way to replace it would do no good to our community.I suppose this method should stay at a sub-alternative way to be further tested and researched.

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/406881
This map is just a simple example to show how unimportant SP is.It has only been modded once by the mapper himself before getting loved and has only 1 star,yet it has one of the biggest fav number among all the CTB-only mapsets.Considering the scale,180 favs in CTB basically equals to 3000 favs in STD in popularity.Nobody would like to see maps like this being forgotten in oblivion due to this rash rigid selecting way.Whether a map is being loved should not ever be judged only by a standard number of favs or SPs.

the point isn't that sp is currently a good way to judge if something deserves to be loved, the point is to give it the purpose of judging if something will be loved. As mentioned a while back, kudosu's don't matter at all once you pass 12 sp, the requirement for getting a map ranked. Beyond that, its used to show support of a mapset, kind of like a favorite, except you have a limited amount to use and it takes some effort to get them to use. Otherwise, a set can earn sp through mods the map receives. Maps such as der wald aren't made to be ranked, and are generally finished, submitted, and left alone to be graveyarded. this means they don't get those mods, nor do they get many people shooting kudosu within the month they are in pending.

This does present a problem, however; since sp can now be used to get things loved, why aren't maps able to make sp progress towards loved while being in the graveyard?

And another thing; how can we get maps from people who are partially or completely inactive in the game put in loved, since the mapper has to submit it for loved themselves? Why can't the community themselves submit qualified maps for loved, something which not even the previous community voting provided?

Kibbleru wrote:

tbh it would make alot more sense if it was 100 favourites and 30 sp instead lol

I think there should be two ways of requirement "paths" you can choose:

1. 100 SP + 30 Fav = requires more Kudosu to be spent on the map but works very well if you mod regulary anyways. That is a very good alternative if you urgently want to see your map with a scoreboard and depends less on the community since the difference between 30 and 100 is huge, and reason to choose this way, if you love your map enough to put so much effort.
   
   
2. 100 Fav + 30 SP = works very well for Maps which already has 100 Favorites or more, mostly older maps can profit from this path. As well, mapper which don't really mod or aren't into modding can work well if ther map is highly loved by the community.

Monstrata wrote:

Might be better to scale # of favourites according to the mode involved, because I doubt taiko/ctb/mania get as much favourite attention as standard.

Should also be considered but I can't really figure out what numbers are acceptable, CTB should have a lower number compared to Taiko and Mania from what I've seen.

I guess I have a little concern that some popular unranked maps like this or this wouldn't be able to get loved under these rules (unless the uploaders revived them and submitted them once they hit 100 SP).

I wouldn't be against having both the vote system or something similar (for popular graveyard maps and ctb/taiko/mania unranked maps) and having this system as a "get your map to loved right away" method.

Joezapy wrote:

And another thing; how can we get maps from people who are partially or completely inactive in the game put in loved, since the mapper has to submit it for loved themselves? Why can't the community themselves submit qualified maps for loved, something which not even the previous community voting provided?

Was about to talk about this.

Yo, just thought I'd post my personal thoughts on the new loved criteria, not sure if I'm supposed to post it here so just tell me if I'm not

In my opinion, using star priority as a ''currency'' for getting maps to the Loved category goes against the purpose of the category itself, and restricts many potential candidates from getting there for no reason. SP is gained in two ways:

1. Getting your map modded
2. Modding other people's maps

Both of these things have very little to do with whether or not a map qualifies to make it to Loved status. Modding a map is an effort to help the mapper improve his or her map in order to get it closer to RANKING status. Modding other people's maps is well, an entirely different subject that has little to no relation to the map in question being qualified for loved.
As I understand from the introductory post to the Loved system, it is aimed mostly at maps which have been recognized by the community but do not adhere to the standard Ranking Criteria. There are no rules or guidelines regarding map quality or amount of mods. The sole purpose is to give community-recognized maps the spotlight they deserve.

I don't think the +100 SP criteria helps this purpose in any way. I understand there has to be some kind of regulation to not get this category spammed with silly memes and gimmicky shitfests, but I don't think this is the way to go. Not only is SP a bad indicator of map popularity (a person could shoot 100 stars on their own map), but it also restricts maps that have already been recognized by large parts of the community from getting to Loved status, only because they have to adhere to an obsolete standard and their creator has to do 100 blanket mods first in order to push it forward.
As an example, 90% of the first batch of loved maps did NOT meet the new SP requirements. To pull up a random example: Red like Roses (https://osu.ppy.sh/s/129314) has 800+ favorites but only a handful of stars. The new criteria wouldn't have allowed the map to pass on to the Loved category. Another example: toby fox - Undertale Boss Themes (https://osu.ppy.sh/s/389467) has over 400 favorites and obviously a lot of community recognition. However, this map would also not qualify for the category as it ''only'' holds +66 SP (which is still not easy to acquire..).

The other issue is that a large part of the community does not have access to SP because they have little to no knowledge about modding. Since the category was introduced as ''maps that have been recognized by a large part of the community'', doesn't that seem a little contradictory?
Yes, I also do understand that there had to be some purpose for SP, but using it as a currency for the loved category just seems like tying two vaguely related concepts together.

My personal (short term?) solution for this problem would be to develop the system in a way that for every favorite above the 30 favs threshhold, one less SP is needed to push the map forward to the Loved category. So for example a map with 70 favorites would need 60 more SP in order to push it to loved. This way we can still filter out the no effort/troll maps but in a way that it doesn't burn down the purpose of the system and restrict the genuine candidate maps.

TLDR: +100 SP requirement doesn't fulfil the purpose of the loved system, let's find a way to make it a less restrictive rule.

I agree with Voli, but cap the SP requirement at least at 30. This way at least SOME effort is put into the map. Also, please remember that DeltaMax had the most amount of SP of any (non-bugged) map ever, and it is loved, so SP shouldn't be a problem in some cases

Stefan wrote:

I think there should be two ways of requirement "paths" you can choose:

1. 100 SP + 30 Fav = requires more Kudosu to be spent on the map but works very well if you mod regulary anyways. That is a very good alternative if you urgently want to see your map with a scoreboard and depends less on the community since the difference between 30 and 100 is huge, and reason to choose this way, if you love your map enough to put so much effort.
   
   
2. 100 Fav + 30 SP = works very well for Maps which already has 100 Favorites or more, mostly older maps can profit from this path. As well, mapper which don't really mod or aren't into modding can work well if ther map is highly loved by the community.

Sounds reasonable to me

a r l e s

100 favourites is extremely difficult to achieve unless you're a very high profile mapper. Even then it can be a challenege

I also think a high amount of SP is good since it would stop people from submitting a plethora of maps and rather pick a select few (or 1 for most people xd). An SP of 30, as Bara suggested earlier, would have a few mappers submitting map after map which I don't think would be healthy for the loved section because reasons

I wonder if a map can get LOVEd passively.
With this, I'm asking that if we, the community can make a map LOVEd without the creator's permission. There may be cases in which the map meets the requirements to be LOVEd but the creator does NOT want it LOVEd, or the creator was away from the game for long or banned. So is this kind of maps able to be LOVEd?

It'll also be important to enable kudosu-shooting for graved maps, otherwise tons of "dead" treasures will never meet the sp requirement.

Well if the creator does not want his map loved then why would you force it to be???

As for the the creator left the game or is banned, tough luck I guess

The majority of Loved maps got there without the mapper's consent really...

That doesn't really answer the question (though it was somewhat rhetorical) . If the mapper doesn't desire their map to be Loved why is it a good idea to force it? Just leave it, it's their map. The way the older loved maps got through without consent is past

I'd say we should get permission from a mapper if he's still active as that is the least we can do

Monstrata wrote:

The majority of Loved maps got there without the mapper's consent really...

That is pretty true.

Thinking about this, the Loved system is not really a community thing anymore because the mapper has the choice to make it Loved instead of Ranked. Let's just have a moment: A mapper will ask everyone to get as much favorites and kudosus on their map because they want their map to be "Loved". This is not a community choice, it's a personal choice in this case.

This was not the point of the Loved section at first.

idktbh

xtrem3x wrote:

100 favs + 50 SP is better (?)

make it at least 100 and 100 :v

30 fav aren't enough to call it a "community thing" (you can ask some friends if 5 or 10 other people fav'd already and that's it)
only 30 SP as Stefan proposed doesn't look appealing either...

As I see it is: if 100 people like the map so much as to put it among favourites they can as well shot 1 kd each and show their support (this implies that these users are mappers/modders and they have a bit of knowledge about maps, hopefully).
I just believe the current exchange rate is way too lenient and still abusable (as mentioned, you can easily get 30 favs if you really want)

I agree with 100/100.

Loved by mapper (SP), and loved by community(favs)

MrSergio wrote:

xtrem3x wrote:

100 favs + 50 SP is better (?)

make it at least 100 and 100 :v

30 fav aren't enough to call it a "community thing" (you can ask some friends if 5 or 10 other people fav'd already and that's it)
only 30 SP as Stefan proposed doesn't look appealing either...

As I see it is: if 100 people like the map so much as to put it among favourites they can as well shot 1 kd each and show their support (this implies that these users are mappers/modders and they have a bit of knowledge about maps, hopefully).
I just believe the current exchange rate is way too lenient and still abusable (as mentioned, you can easily get 30 favs if you really want)

the problem is in order to make it hard to abuse the system it also makes it hard to get maps loved as a whole. this stays true to 'loved by the community', but it also becomes exponentially harder to produce something that qualifies, ruining the point of a system made in part to make it easier to get a map recognized with less effort.

maybe a good idea would be to have more than one way to get a map loved? This new system, although it stays more true to the original intent of the loved section, is completely different from the community voting we used to have.

did ppl even read my post, i typed up literally everything and ppl are just repeatin things .-.

The community is not made of mappers only and those mappers who aim to make somehow >perfect< or >rankable< maps aim for >ranked< section that is reserved for people who map for >ranked< so their point of view is "Quality, quality, quality, quality... What the heck is mapping for fun? Quality..." and thanks God now we have the other section that can actually show what the community wants to be the real thing. Remember that the ranked section is not always the place for the maps that are simply loved by the community, the maps still have to be approved by at least two or three members of the staff or/and the BNG. This is how the >quality< is supposed to be gained. Basically, some maps are meant to be liked by the staff and the BNG but disliked by the community, that is a normal thing.

So, now we have the "Loved" section that is supposed to work as the field for those who map for the community even if their mapping skills are somehow lacking or too amazing, or 2in1, or because the ranking process might damage the map too much... or because anything. So, people show their love on some maps and if the maps are loved on the level they can be sent to the Loved section, why the hell are people obligated to shoot kudosu and/or mod them if it's not aimed to polish them more as the maps are polished enough in the actual state? For Lord's sake, not every player or even every mapper is a modder, thus why would they be obligated to gain star priority too? 100 favs are hardcore to be reached but hello, the fact one gained 100 favs and no single kudos means something more than that the other one gained 35 favourites and 400 kudosu from one person who could spend it, where the one who gave all the kudosu is probably the mapper.

And for those who say the SP is needed: try to gain 100 kudosu on your own by modding maps and then spend all the kudosu gained on your map so you can get it loved. LOL

Voli, thank you for your post: p/5781055

All in all my map is screwed... oh well, time to work harder I guess.