JeirYagtama wrote:

aight

Paper Moon

00:54:488 (1) - this slider here kinda ends with a clickable of the guitar ur mapping in 00:54:761 (2,3,4,5) - you can just ctrl g the rhythm with 3 and 1 how did nobody notice that before that rhythm made no sense lo
01:06:488 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - mmm tbh the hitsounds here kiinnnddaa sounds early for me liikkee somewhat 130ms don't think so, might be the drums and guitar not being perfectly in sync
01:20:943 (1) - mayybee silence the sliderend here? there's some guitar noise which fits it quite nicely but i'll lowerthe volume a bit
04:08:727 (4) - kinda feels better if you move this to the white tick
04:23:852 (4) - ^ mapping to bass here and this is what it's playing
06:41:036 (4,5,6,7,1) - why not put some spacing emphasis like what you did over in these streams? 06:38:097 (1,2,3,4) - 06:33:689 (1,2,3,4) - either of those two works fine if u goin this route nothing comparable with the guitar pitches i'm mapping the accel streams to
07:59:608 (1) - hmmm why not end this moon slider to le big white tick? end is on the last cymbal sound since measures are kinda a meme at this point in the song

Honestly wew this is one of the maps I really really like so far. Yea this a masterpiece boi sorry If I didnt much since yeaaaa I think most parts of the map is fine xd
May God bless u boi thanks mah boi

TheArchist wrote:

10 million years late

How do I stop being bad at 120 bpm streams so I can understand the map better? I'll never know. play more

00:04:715 (2,1) - I feel like you can angle the sliderends better into the note so it doesn't have you curve your cursor as much while playing, this particular one is me nitpicking but parts like 00:09:077 (2,1) - could benefit from a little extra adjustment so the cursor movement doesn't go right back onto 00:08:668 (1) - sliderhead for example don't really get what you're trying to say here tbh, but due to how it's structured changing anything about these sliderends in relation to the surrounding objects would require rather major remaps - if you want a change you'll have to be clearer about what you mean
00:06:896 (1,2,3) - stacking like this (https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8835431) would make this a little cleaner but feel free to deny more consistent with later patterns, changed. also slightly increased sv of the slider to make the tail align ot the hexgrid
00:09:077 (2,1) - also these sliders would benefit from (2,3) ncing because you have a 1/4 gap on the sliderend which isn't obvious to sightreads (doesn't help you're changing bpm here as well) i use colorhax to distinguish these which works better than your suggestion (which was what i had before adding the additional combo color for these)
00:19:579 (2,2,2) - I feel these could be placed better to compliment the structure that you previously made because you can use the triangles to do this https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8835490 and then appropriately distance snap 00:19:579 (2,2) - in between the center of the hexagon and the green 3 i actually want this to break out of the hexgrid structure because it kinda breaks out of the pattern of previous similar patterns
00:23:397 (2) - I personally don't like the movement going there and would rather put the note more left (but not too much) like https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8835513 the angle here is chosen to be consistent with the angles of other similar patterns, to shallow an angle makes it look like a failed attempt at being straight in line
00:38:125 (1) - I really feel you should've continued to express this line up till this blue tick 00:39:352 - and then move into 00:39:488 - because the guitar picks back up here with the rhythm you already have and it feels disconnected as is since you go from slider expressing a guitar sound, stopping for 2 drums, then going back for the guitar sound that matches up with the drum rhythm. I don't know it feels disconnected on this part that would result in an excessively long slider that doesn't at all represent that there's still a lot going on in the music while the lead guitar is holding
00:58:716 (3,1,1,1,1) - I have an nc suggestion for that part: 00:58:716 (3,4,1,2,1,2) - because you're playing with short beat gaps here, similar to what i said about 00:09:077 (2,1) -
01:29:260 (2,1) - spoke above a few times about it, not going to repeat myself if it keeps occurring from this point. colorhax as above
01:37:715 (2) - I really don't think you need this note because you're expressing the keyboard sound here and it has major emphasis on 01:37:169 (1,1,2) - it's a a bass not a keyboard and i find this works well to transition into following mostly drums for a while
01:52:578 (2) - another "move this left" gripe feel free to ignore (alternatively you could angle the sliderend of 01:52:306 (1) - but that is completely up to you) moved a bit closer but about the same angle
03:53:852 - you should map this break considering the really nicely mapped section you have before it but that is just my opinion reasons for not mapping outlined in previous mod responses

And okay from there its super solidly mapped and the complaints I do have tend to repeat themselves a bit (obviously in the end where the song calls back to the beginning) but well done, super nice work on it.

thanks as always

squirrelpascals wrote:

do you want me to mod this

squirrelpascals wrote:

with that being said, no kd even though you only got 1 for one of the better mods on the map, quality system

end me

timing

• 01:16:307 - idk if this matters (no map here) but the timing sounds late with the drums, fix this just in case seems fine to me and hasn't been noted before so i think it should be fine

• 03:39:216 - these next two timing points are unnecessary and just screws with downbeats, delete them until 03:41:852 - these are necessary for 03:39:216 (3,4,1,2) - to be correctly timed (which was still slightly off but should be good now)

general

• unsnapped stuff in ai mod fixed, leftover from timing fixes

everything else

• 00:07:714 - why x.66 sv here? doesnt make sense to randomly decrease sv here imo 1. the guitar suddenly switches from the high lead to the low note and 2. unlike all the other low notes in this section it's not a chord but just a single note

• 00:27:351 (3) - connect this circle with 00:27:079 (1,2) - ? I don't hear the cymbal you mapped these jumps 00:26:942 (3,1) - to, and it owuld create more structure between 00:26:397 (2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - mapped to the bass drum which is present there, plus it creates a nicer parallel to 00:32:397 (2,3,1,2,3,1,2) - (see also dsco mod)

• 00:35:125 (5) - nc here, to follow the pattern with 00:26:125 (1) - 00:32:125 (1) - sry for ruinning colorhax actually works out nicely since it eliminates the change from dark to light for phrase starts later on well done finding one of the 3 or 4 longest sections without an opportunity to reset combo colors btw

• 01:00:079 - i would suggest putting a note or sliderend or something here, you have a lot of instruments going on and have a guitar note here, so more rhythm density here would feel more natural sure

• 01:23:532 (6) - same as 00:27:351 (3) - same reply

• 01:29:942 (1,1) - space these closer? this would better indicate 1/8 spacing like at 00:46:307 (1,2) - sure

• 04:08:852 - You skip a pretty obvious snare note here for some reason, put some here because this is noticable. same at 04:23:852 - added kicksliders because i want to keep the emphasis on the bass here

• 04:27:852 - Why dont you do anything about this snare roll here? This is pretty unique in this section of the song so I'd recommend doing something to recognize it did something with the entire drum fill, hope the linear dotted pattern is still recognizeble in the center of it

• 04:41:852 (3) - 04:33:852 (6) - 04:56:852 (4) - use nc here? previously you start these 3/4 patterns using the nc like 04:12:852 (1,1,1) - o boi more nc fixes °˖✧◝(⁰▿⁰)◜✧˖°

• 04:44:352 (5,6,1) - move 6 up and left to make this pattern feel more fluent coming from 4, like this sure

• 04:48:852 (4,1,2,3,4) - I get that you're intentionally undermapping here, but since you're doing it to drums can you do something here to recognize these rides? they're introduced here and offer a new more interesting rhythm that feels strange to ignore mapping those rides would completely elimiate the undermapping though thus changing the feel away from i want for this section, therefore i'm focusing on the kick/snare/fills to leave the empty space i feel this section needs

• 06:35:158 (1,2,3,4,1) - this stream aesthetic doesn't make sense to me, its jagged and messy compared to your other more nicely curved ones like 06:33:689 (1,2,3,4) - etc. if you pay close attention the pattern of the guitar changes to be not monotonously rising or falling, ie if you number by pitch instead of the other instances being 1234 or 4321 this is something like 1243; combined with this being the hlafway point of this particular section i think it works out well for emphasis (see also deramok mod)

• 08:12:366 - random %80 volume here? this sounded better with the slider ticks :p unfortunately i can't make osu place a slider tick there so i have to work around it somehow if i want to hitsound that cymbal; i did try to make it a bit more hitlike by making the high volume shorter and decaying faster which sounds ok i think also maybe make that sliderend quieter lowered ot 45%

call me maybe

1. 110 bpm feels wrong as it ignores a lot of downbeats, (00:05:124 - 00:11:664 - 00:14:663 - , just to point some few examples)
2. the timing signatures seem to be off as well (it's kind of obvious since the bpm is wrong) in any case, most of your bpm resets are wrong or don't make sense.

[TimingPoints]
1305,272.727272727273,5,1,1,70,1,0
2668,272.727272727273,6,1,1,70,1,0
4304,272.727272727273,5,1,1,70,1,0
5667,272.727272727273,3,1,1,70,1,0
6485,272.727272727273,5,1,1,70,1,0
7575,272.727272727273,4,1,1,70,1,0
8665,272.727272727273,6,1,1,70,1,0
10301,272.727272727273,5,1,1,70,1,0
11664,272.727272727273,6,1,1,70,1,0
13300,272.727272727273,5,1,1,70,1,0
14663,272.727272727273,6,1,1,70,1,0
16299,272.727272727273,5,1,1,70,1,0
17662,272.727272727273,3,1,1,70,1,0
18480,272.727272727273,8,1,1,70,1,0
20662,272.727272727273,6,1,1,70,1,0
479608,689.655172413793,4,2,1,90,1,0

Kagetsu wrote:

hi

i have to pop this due to timing issues:

1. 110 bpm feels wrong as it ignores a lot of downbeats, (00:05:124 - how is that a downbeat in any case 00:11:664 - 00:14:663 - , just to point some few examples)
2. the timing signatures seem to be off as well (it's kind of obvious since the bpm is wrong) in any case, most of your bpm resets are wrong or don't make sense.

BrianTheDrummer wrote:

Discovered this map some time ago and just wanted to say it's absolutely amazing! I've listened to this song many times and besides the mapping itself being really good it supports the song really well. The song is quite complex with small details/accents and I was afraid for a map to ignore these and I'm glad you didn't. This song/artist is amazing and it's good to finally see a proper map being made for it. Keep up the work and hopefully you can get it ranked!

Zhuriel wrote:

110bpm 11/8 is correct according to the official tabs (http://www.sheethappenspublishing.com/p ... guitarbook) as well as anyone with a reasonable understanding of complex time signatures. (i've discussed it with dsco too) if you want excerpts of the tabs feel free to contact me directly as i don't want to upload them here.

Zhuriel wrote:

looking also at your pop on taiyou to kurashite kita, i would kindly recommend you to learn more about complex time signatures and rhythms before unnecessarily popping bubbles again. your timing suggestion shows a complete lack of understanding of the rhythmic structure of this song.

Kagetsu wrote:

it might be true that 110 bpm is the original one for this song (i actually checked the tab before popping this) however, 11/8 is unsupported by the game so you will have to transcribe 11/8 to more simple time signatures (11/8 is "faster" hence why the current timing doesn't work)

Ranking Criteria wrote:

1. Uninherited (red) Timing Sections should be used to accurately map the song's timing. They should synchronize to the beats of the song as accurately as possible and use the correct time signature whenever possible. If an incorrect time signature would last for more than 2 bars, add another timing section to fix it.(...)

Kagetsu wrote:

it's not about following an official number, but rather to make things work within the game limits.

Zhuriel wrote:

while the game does not support 11/8, there is nothing unrankable in the way i've timed it according to this piece of wording in the rc as a) it is not possible to use the correct time signature and b) no incorrect time signature lasts for more than one bar.

Kagetsu wrote:

it's not about following an official number, but rather to make things work within the game limits.

squirrelpascals wrote:

there shouldn't be a need to stray away from the songs original bpm to reflect more accurate timing - based off your example in your earlier post. Your timing points seem to reflect more of an alternating 5/4, 6/4 rather than what the song was truly written to according to the tabs. I'm going to have to say I agree with Zhur on this one.

1. from bar 1 to 6, it shows a 6/4 110 bpm pace (this is what's in the map, currently)
2. from bar 7 to 12, it shows a 6/8 110 bpm pace (this is what the original composer wrote, whether it's 11 or 5+6 /8 is irrelevant, as these changes would only add more bars)
3. from bar 13 to 18, it shows a 6/4 220 bpm pace (this is what i consider a more accurate adaptation of what the composer wrote)

Kagetsu wrote:

1. from bar 1 to 6, it shows a 6/4 110 bpm pace (this is what's in the map, currently)

Kagetsu wrote:

i know you guys are attached to this "110 bpm" number and don't want to change it, but in reality the song's pace is way faster. even if you're trying to represent an 11/8 signature, 220 bpm 11/4 is proven to be more accurate.

frukoyurdakul wrote:

05:19:837 - I don't think this is flat 4/4. I haven't came up with a solution yet but I think that section needs to be fixed as well.
Secondly, the part after that kiai is also wrong (because of the similiar rhythms.)

Zhuriel wrote:

while 220 may cause all metronome beats to land on subdivisons, it also misrepresents the "pace" you seem so intent on.

Zhuriel wrote:

there are no rules in the ranking criteria stating that all metronome beats have to land on subdivisions,

Zhuriel wrote:

and there are ranked maps in 6/8 implemented as 3/4, so i see no argument why 220 11/4 is a more accurate representation of the song than 110 11/8 with a different structure.

Zhuriel wrote:

Allow me one last attempt at explaining the structure of the 11/8 meter in this song:



similar to a 12/8, each of these groupings structurally works like a beat in a 4/4, whereas that would not be the case in a 220BPM 11/4. this is why i do not consider timing at 220 to be a more accurate representation of the composition.

1. 00:01:305 -
2. 00:01:850 - this isn't even a beat in your current timing
3. 00:02:395 - more of the same
4. 00:03:214 -
5. 00:04:032 -

[TimingPoints]
1305,272.727272727273,11,1,1,70,1,0
2123,272.727272727273,11,1,1,70,1,0
2668,272.727272727273,11,1,1,70,1,0
3486,272.727272727273,11,1,1,70,1,0
4304,272.727272727273,11,1,1,70,1,0

Ranking Criteria wrote:

1. Uninherited timing points must be used to accurately map the song's time signatures. If an incorrect time signature lasts for more than one bar, a uninherited timing point must be added on the next downbeat to reset the time signature. For time signatures unsupported in the editor, metronome resets or editing of the .osu file are acceptable.

Zhuriel wrote:

a recent RC update was pointed out to me that says:

Ranking Criteria wrote:

1. Uninherited timing points must be used to accurately map the song's time signatures. If an incorrect time signature lasts for more than one bar, a uninherited timing point must be added on the next downbeat to reset the time signature. For time signatures unsupported in the editor, metronome resets or editing of the .osu file are acceptable.

therefore, my implementation is now explicitly allowed by ranking criteria.

Turquoise- wrote:

absolutely rekt

Kagetsu wrote:

true, but not exactly for the reasons you pointed. the new RC just doesn't state that the metronome should follow the beats in the song. in any case, it says something about accurately map the song's time signatures but that's now kinda vague in my eyes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Zhuriel wrote:

not sure how explicitly allowing metronome resets is vague in any way, if anything it is vague in a good way as it allows mappers to choose which of the available inaccurate workarounds works best for them. i feel like you misunderstood my point, i never argued this implementation is accurate to the song, however i consider it more accurate and resulting in a better map than the alternative.

Kagetsu wrote:

i never said metronome resets are vague though? i'm questioning the part of Uninherited timing points must be used to accurately map the song's time signatures. it says accurately but doesn't explain what they consider accurate as you can now use a sum of correct bpm + wrong time signature which results in the metronome being off just like in this case.

dsco wrote:

i do believe, however, it makes more sense to change the time signature from 6/4 to 11/4 so that the 'correct time signature' can at least be ascertained from the timing panel, and maintain at least some level of relationship between the time signature chosen in the editor and the true time signature of the song, though this does not do anything. it should also be noted that this is done later in the map with 7/4 (instead of 4/4) starting at 06:04:331. also 06:16:091 ought to be changed to 9/4 to keep consistent with the measures / time signatures chosen before.

dsco wrote:

i can also verify that the 4/4 section int he middle is indeed 4/4, heavily syncopated groupings, though i dont agree with having truncated measures of 4/4 (starting at 05:35:510) instead of adding a red tick that says 3/4 (as would be correct in the tabulature, as i've gathered from zhuriel)

Bonsai wrote:

the the

squirrelpascals wrote:

Bonsai wrote:

the the

celerih wrote:

Hello I'm here because Zhuriel doesn't know how to talk to BNs ɿ(｡･ɜ･)ɾ

SPOILER

[ The End of Everything]

2. 00:27:897 (3) - Have this as a circle + a 1/4 slider because a reverse is too weak imo for the drums on 00:28:034 - i want to emphasize the held guitar note here and that would somewhat take away from that. i tried out a few patterns to increase emphasis on (3) with spacing and have the kick clickable but i can't really find anything that i like
3. 00:37:170 (3) - Put this a bit lower so it doesn't touch 00:36:897 (1) - would mess with the triangle pattern in a way i really don't like, alternative would be to increase spacing on the triangle but that would mess with the decreasing spacing in the pattern as well so i think this overlap is the least of the evils there are to choose from
4. 01:22:306 (1,2,3,4) - can u make these a bit more parallel or at least be at the same angle pls rotated to sit symmetrically on 01:22:851 (1) -
5. 01:23:532 (6) - I don't think there's anything to justify 6 not being grouped with 4 and 5 follows the same pattern as 00:27:079 (1,2,3) - in emphasizing bass drums
6. 03:53:602 (1) - For more impact overlap this note with the slider head of 03:52:352 (3) - i want this to follow the back-and-forth pattern of 03:51:102 (5,6,1) -
7. 04:09:102 (6,7) - Looks like a 1/4 gap because of 04:08:727 (4,5) - . Try and differentiate them a bit
8. 04:23:727 (4,5,6,7) - same as above that would be because the kickslider was added later on, moving the double a bit closer to the kickslider to differentiate
9. 05:18:335 (1,2,3,4) - Decrease distance here because pitch is going down starting pitch is lower but it switches from a descending run to an ascending one with wider intervals, so lower spacing would be unfitting imo
10. 06:39:566 (1,2,3,4,1) - Why is spacing decreasing here? rhythm guitar descending like the rest of the patterns in this section
11. 08:12:366 - What's up with the 5 greenlines here? i covered the other cymbals in the outro with sliderticks but since there isn't a slider tick here i made my own pseudo-tick with sliderslide volume manipulation

Call me back for a rebubble (:

Ohwow wrote:

00:23:534 - why did you skip this? At first, it really seemed like you're following the guitar (since it's really prominent) and all of the sudden you skipped this guitar. Even if you argue that you are following the cymbals, it still feels awkward to have a pause there when there's no pause in the music. I would've liked at least a circle stacked onto 00:23:670 (1) -
01:11:534 - ^ i focus more on the rhythm guitar here, mapping an additional note for the lead would be somewhat awkward and take away emphasis from 00:23:670 - which i consider very important since it marks the song falling back into the earlier pattern

00:36:897 (1,2,3) - why overlap (1) and (3)? it will easily look better if spaced. and why is (1) & (2) aligned while 00:36:625 (1,2) - and 00:36:352 (1,2) - are not? https://i.gyazo.com/09e16055084afd8cf12 ... 457f04.jpg this is consistent with other triangle based patterns as explained in celerih's mod response

04:08:727 (4) - there's no snare here in the music, so should remove drum-normal. like 04:23:727 (4) - there are ghost notes on the snare here so i consider this fitting
04:08:852 - on top of that, not really liking how the actual snare (which is the loudest) is mapped to slider end. the primary emphasis in this section is put on the bass, while the snare might be the loudest it is by no means the most important here

06:21:731 (5,1) - The flow here is really bad compared to the rest of the streams you did. i use the somewhat umcomfortable movement for the difference in emphasis between lead and rhythm guitar, and while this particular instance worked out a bit differently than others i think it achieves the desired effect

07:31:288 (1) - there's no snare on the sliderend. it sounds like a double hit on the snare to me which is one of the reasons i mapped short kick sliders here

07:57:698 (2) - make this a slider? again with the rhythm pauses. same reasoning. it's not required to map everything and rests are a powerful tool for adding emphasis

meh. cool stuff, but I feel like this map could be improved. Feel free to decline everything.