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Planning on Replacing Mouse

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Total Posts
41
scrain8
49 posts
Joined March 2009
Topic Starter
scrain8
Currently I am using a Steelseries Sensei Raw Rubberized. After 3 years with it the rubber has worn off where i grip it. Especially where my pinky rests. Consequently my hand and fingers starts to slide down and off of the mouse. It goes from clicking with just my finger tip to the entire index finger. Mice that I am currently looking at is the Steelseries Rival and the Razer Deathadder. Those are right hand specific mice though. So compared to a ambidextrious mouse which would generally be better.

Also I may invest in a tablet but i want to get pretty proficient on mouse play.
Seat Ibiza TDI
61 posts
Joined April 2014
Seat Ibiza TDI
Razer taipan would be a good choice.
scrain8
49 posts
Joined March 2009
Topic Starter
scrain8

dat boi waffle wrote:

Razer taipan would be a good choice.
Hmm I didn't even consider that. How is it for sweaty hands?
Paneiru
104 posts
Joined May 2014
Paneiru
If you want something similar to what you're using at the moment, have a look at DM1 pro S or the nixeus revel which have approximately the same shape as the sensei raw (basically clones). I'm currently using the DM1 pro S and I'm very happy with it. They only have sidebuttons on the left side as well for right handed persons. The only drawback about the mouse is that they don't have any dedicated software at all, so you're locked to using the presets (i've always been using the 800 dpi step so I don't mind not having any kind of software), and the DM1 pro S got a braided cable that can be a bit too stiff compared to the rubberized cable from the nixeus revel (however I've been using a mouse bungee with the DM1 pro S and have no problems with cable tugging). Both mouses uses the optical PMW3360 sensor which is one of the best in the market at the moment, so the performance will be considerably better than your current sensei raw which uses a laser sensor.
scrain8
49 posts
Joined March 2009
Topic Starter
scrain8

Paneiru wrote:

If you want something similar to what you're using at the moment, have a look at DM1 pro S or the nixeus revel which have approximately the same shape as the sensei raw (basically clones). I'm currently using the DM1 pro S and I'm very happy with it. They only have sidebuttons on the left side as well for right handed persons. The only drawback about the mouse is that they don't have any dedicated software at all, so you're locked to using the presets (i've always been using the 800 dpi step so I don't mind not having any kind of software), and the DM1 pro S got a braided cable that can be a bit too stiff compared to the rubberized cable from the nixeus revel (however I've been using a mouse bungee with the DM1 pro S and have no problems with cable tugging). Both mouses uses the optical PMW3360 sensor which is one of the best in the market at the moment, so the performance will be considerably better than your current sensei raw which uses a laser sensor.
I'll also put that on the list to check out. But recently playing with the sensei i feel like the shape is not right for me. But at the same time my grip ever so slightly changed in the past 4 months.
TakuMii
1,874 posts
Joined October 2009
TakuMii
I'd honestly avoid the Taipan, or any laser mouse, for that matter. Optical mice are generally more reliable for anything that requires fast and accurate movement, and with all the newer gaming mice coming out with PMW3310, PMW3360, or PMW3366 sensors, it's hard to go wrong.

I personally prefer mice with basic ambidextrous shapes, so if you're fine with that, look into the Skydigital NMouse4k/Zalman ZM-M600R (both are same mouse. They have an older ADNS-3090 sensor, but is very inexpensive and stills performs solidly), or maybe the Logitech G102/G Pro (both the same mouse but G102 has a cheaper low-power sensor).

If you're looking for a right-handed mouse, I'd go with one of the mice that Paneiru suggested (DM1 Pro S or Nixeus Revel), or a Logitech G403, or maybe one of the Mionix 7000 mice. I personally wouldn't go with Steelseries at this point as their rubber grips wear down notoriously fast, and I'd also avoid Razer as their software is a pain to deal with. There are also a handful of other great mice on the market to look at, so it's not a bad idea to keep yourself open to mice besides the suggestions posted here (...as long as you don't go for a mouse with a laser sensor :P).
Last edited by TakuMii , edited 1 time in total.
scrain8
49 posts
Joined March 2009
Topic Starter
scrain8

TakuMii wrote:

I'd honestly avoid the Taipan, or any laser mouse, for that matter. Optical mice are generally more reliable for anything that requires fast and accurate movement, with all the newer gaming mice coming out with PMW3310, PMW3360, or PMW3366 sensors, it's hard to go wrong.

I personally prefer mice with basic ambidextrous shapes, so if you're fine with that, look into the Skydigital NMouse4k/Zalman ZM-M600R (both are same mouse. They have an older ADNS-3090 sensor, but is very inexpensive and stills performs solidly), or maybe the Logitech G102/G Pro (both the same mouse but G102 has a cheaper low-power sensor).

If you're looking for a right-handed mouse, I'd go with one of the mice that Paneiru suggested (DM1 Pro S or Nixeus Revel), or a Logitech G403, or maybe one of the Mionix 7000 mice. I personally wouldn't go with Steelseries at this point as their rubber grips wear down notoriously fast, and I'd also avoid Razer as their software is a pain to deal with. There are also a handful of other great mice on the market to look at, so it's not a bad idea to keep yourself open to mice besides the suggestions posted here (...as long as you don't go for a mouse with a laser sensor :P).
The Steelseries sensei has been around for a long time so meh. I think i may try a right handed mouse since I got to replace this anyways. I did invest in a tablet so I get to see if I prefer that more. I'm not knowledgeable of logitech gaming mice. Always wanted to try one though.
TakuMii
1,874 posts
Joined October 2009
TakuMii
I was more referring to the Steelseries Rival, which has a good sensor but terrible side grips (in my experience), but yeah, you get what I mean.

Honestly, Logitech's been ahead in the sensor game for a while. They seem to be more focused on improving the technical side of their products compared to other companies; in fact, their wireless tech has gotten so good lately that I can honestly say that their wireless mice are the only wireless mice that are even worth considering.
But as I said, if you're after a right-handed mouse, the G403 (wired or wireless, doesn't matter) would probably be the one to look for if you're going with Logitech. Their other mice are either ambidextrous, have weird designs/shapes, or are simply just a bit heavier than they should be (at least in my opinion).
Rurree
1,291 posts
Joined June 2014
Rurree
Can you give me your preferred grip, budget, and weight? The general consensus is that getting a mouse with the PMW3366, 3360, 3310, 3330, 3988, and 3989 are the best choices but everything else is based on preferences (besides the weight being above 140g).

I personally own a Zowie EC1-A, Logitech G102, and a Nixeus Revel. Any of the 3 are brilliant mice, if you want something similar to the Sensei get the Nixeus Revel, Dream Machines DM1 Pro/Pro S, or the Zowie FK1/2/1+

The Razer Deathadder and the Rival 300 are both solid choices but honestly if I were you I'd just get the G403 or the Deathadder Elite if I wanted a right handed ergonomic mouse that's for large hands.
scrain8
49 posts
Joined March 2009
Topic Starter
scrain8
@TakuMii Again I have no experience with Logitech gaming mice much less right handed ones but if I can find a show item to demo it I'll see about it. The G503 look sexy but impactical for OSU.

@Madvillain I think I use a claw grip. Budget maybe around 50-70 USD. Weight I don't really know. First mouse when I tried to get serious with OSU was Logitech M310 (3.49oz). Hated it because it was too small. Hurt my hands. Second mouse was Logitech M100 (3.17oz). It was lighter but larger in dimensions so it was more bearable but still felt a tad too small. Last mouse Steelseries Sensei(3.168oz). It was as heavy as the M100 but somewhat bigger. I had the most improvement with this. I hope thius answers your question.
You added more to my list of considerations. I wish i was able to demo them all.
TakuMii
1,874 posts
Joined October 2009
TakuMii
I took "no experience" and "always wanted to try one" as meaning that you wanted to know more... But okay then.

Also, what about the G403 makes it impractical? It's not really that fancy, and the wired model is fairly lightweight. (unless you're referring to the G502, which is actually a pretty heavy mouse and I wouldn't recommend it)
scrain8
49 posts
Joined March 2009
Topic Starter
scrain8
Lol sorry if my wording is horrible. Also i was refering to the G502
Xyrus_old_1
407 posts
Joined October 2015
Xyrus_old_1
G502 is an amazing mouse for a lot of games, including osu!, the heavy weight is only a downside if you prefer lighter mice. I wouldn't recommend it for a left-handed player though
SPOILER
assuming you're left-handed
Llahmah 2
73 posts
Joined July 2016
Llahmah 2
I like g502, but it's right handed and also rather large. If you want one just for osu! maybe go for something else but If you want a good all around mouse it isn't heavy, people are just weak.
scrain8
49 posts
Joined March 2009
Topic Starter
scrain8
@Xyrus Well i feel like a heavier mouse would be nicer for stability purposes. But I can't really say since my current mouse is only 3.16oz.

@Llahmah Thats a good point. Do I want it only for OSU.
Rurree
1,291 posts
Joined June 2014
Rurree
I think you should definitely get the G403. Perfect for those with medium to large hands and claw grip. The Zowie ZA11 is another very good choice.
Luqanted
815 posts
Joined November 2013
Luqanted

Madvillain wrote:

I think you should definitely get the G403. Perfect for those with medium to large hands and claw grip.
i'd recommend G403
scrain8
49 posts
Joined March 2009
Topic Starter
scrain8
Is the grip on the sides good?
TakuMii
1,874 posts
Joined October 2009
TakuMii

scrain8 wrote:

Is the grip on the sides good?
I've heard good things about the side grips, so I'd assume so. They're rubber-coated, and I doubt they'd wear down anywhere near as fast as the ones on my Rival did.

Llahmah wrote:

it isn't heavy, people are just weak.
The G502 is quite a bit heavier than pretty much every other mouse on the market (and that's without the optional weights). Also, please enlighten me about how hand strength has anything to do with the properties of kinetic physics, as well as the effect that mass has on momentum and static friction.
Last edited by TakuMii , edited 1 time in total.
scrain8
49 posts
Joined March 2009
Topic Starter
scrain8
Amazon has it on sale ish. Depending on how long the sale last it may be the one. But gotta check the others as well.
Rurree
1,291 posts
Joined June 2014
Rurree

Llahmah wrote:

it isn't heavy, people are just weak.
No. I play ultimate frisbee a lot which is a demanding sport relying on one's wrists and arms (which means I've put a ton of effort to improve my stamina and overall strength of my arms, particularly my left arm) and I still find the G502 way too heavy for games such as osu, my opinion. It always depends on preference, not on whether a person is weak or not.
Xyrus_old_1
407 posts
Joined October 2015
Xyrus_old_1
You don't need strength to use a G502, you just need to use it to get used to it. I have no physical strength worth mentioning and I've had a bad habit of lifting the G502 by accident during plays.
scrain8
49 posts
Joined March 2009
Topic Starter
scrain8
Well as long as the mouse isn't light or small then I think I can manage. Maybe I may be able to get a feel for the G502 in a store. But who knows. If I could buy all the mice and try them all I would lol.
TakuMii
1,874 posts
Joined October 2009
TakuMii
I won't disagree that it's a personal preference thing, but in my opinion, lighter will be better when it comes to games that involve lots of mouse movement and fine control.

If you look at it from even a basic physics standpoint, there's more you have to deal with when using a heavier mouse:
long boring physics explanation because i'm bored
Newton's Laws of Motion implies that the heavier an object is, the more force (or the more energy) needs to be applied to change the speed or direction of movement. This much should be a bit obvious, even without any scientific knowledge, simply by comparing a lighter mouse to a heavier mouse by feel (although the slower feel probably has more to do with friction). I'm sure nobody's weak enough to be unable to use a heavier mouse, but plenty of people should still be able to tell the difference between lighter and heavier mice just by waving them around.

One problem that's less obvious is the properties of friction. See, friction can be broken into two parts: static friction (counter-forces that keep a non-moving object still) and kinetic friction (counter-forces that keep a moving object from sliding endlessly). To put it short, friction acts differently depending on whether a motion is starting or continuing, and this has to do with the material of the two objects in contact. Additionally, the gap between the two different types of friction will proportionally increase depending on how heavy an object is.
For a typical cloth mousepad, it has more static friction than kinetic friction, meaning it takes more force to stop a mouse from moving than it does to start moving a mouse from standstill. In the worst case scenario (aka a heavy mouse and a high-friction surface), the effect of static friction can easily be felt, and it can make it harder to avoid overshooting when making very small movements. Kinetic friction, on the other hand, is what most people think of when you say 'friction', and basically just refers how 'fast' or 'smooth' a mouse will glide across the mousepad. Of course, this will differ depending on the material of the mousepad, but the weight of the mouse does play a part in how it feels.

Ideally, you'll want a mouse and mousepad pairing that has low enough static friction to allow you to make tiny movements, but a high enough kinetic friction to keep you feeling like you're in control without slowing you down. This can come down to personal preference, as different combinations of mousepad material and mouse weight can result in very different feels. I personally prefer a lightweight mouse with a smooth cloth mousepad (currently using a Skydigital NMouse4K with a Razer Goliathus Speed).
...or use a tablet. Because, y'know, pens are 10x lighter than mice, and hovering means you don't need to deal with friction.
tl;dr: friction is a bitch, so all the cool kids use lightweight mice or tablets
Rurree
1,291 posts
Joined June 2014
Rurree
I just don't like the G502 because I have no reason to use it, especially when I could just get Zowie mice or other lighter gaming mice for my games which are mostly FPS. It's highly impractical to use something like the Steelseries Rival 700 and the Logitech G502 when I could use lighter mice for my own comfort and improvement in performance.

I think the G502 is a fun mouse to use, just not good at all for competitive play, UNLESS you've really gotten used to it.
scrain8
49 posts
Joined March 2009
Topic Starter
scrain8
Oh sorry if I make it sound like I prefer a heavy mouse. Current mouse is 3.17oz. Not really sure how light/heavy that is for a mouse. I feel it's the sweet spot. I may be coming back to mouse soon. I do like playing with tablet but I'm always thinking about my mouse. I'll just maybe practice harder with it?
TakuMii
1,874 posts
Joined October 2009
TakuMii

scrain8 wrote:

Oh sorry if I make it sound like I prefer a heavy mouse. Current mouse is 3.17oz. Not really sure how light/heavy that is for a mouse. I feel it's the sweet spot. I may be coming back to mouse soon. I do like playing with tablet but I'm always thinking about my mouse. I'll just maybe practice harder with it?
Actually, I'd consider 90g (sorry, I use metric) on the lighter end of the spectrum when it comes to gaming mice. There are only a handful of mice out there that are noticeably lighter than that, and many of those mice are physically smaller than your current mouse.

For an aim-intensive game like osu! or Minesweeper, a mouse designed for FPS games will be best-suited in terms of weight and tracking ability. And you'll find that most FPS-oriented mice are built to be as lightweight as possible; in fact, many of the mice already recommended in this thread are almost exactly the same weight as yours (Nixeus Revel, Dream Machines DM1 Pro, Zowie FK1, wired Logitech G403). There are a few 'full-sized' mice that are even lighter than that, and while lightness should always be welcome, it's a bit difficult for companies to make their mice any lighter without making their mice feel brittle and cheaply built. That being said, you really should be fine with most of the mice mentioned earlier if you're worrying about weight.
Last edited by TakuMii , edited 1 time in total.
scrain8
49 posts
Joined March 2009
Topic Starter
scrain8
Out of all the recommendations I think I have narrowed it down to either the Zowie EC2-A or the Logitech G403. Going to the store when I wake up to see if they have any of them on show for me to handle them.
Rurree
1,291 posts
Joined June 2014
Rurree
Logitech G403 is larger. Get the EC1-A instead for a much larger version of the EC2-A so it could be compared to the G403.

Personally I'd get the G403, better sensor, lighter weight, better buttons, only thing bad about it I guess is the cable because I'm not a fan of Logitech's braided cables, or any braided cable for that matter. I suggest you get a mouse bungee to go along with it.
scrain8
49 posts
Joined March 2009
Topic Starter
scrain8
Tried my hands on the G403 and it is a nice feeling. Clicks feel nice. Maybe a slightly shorter actuation? I could not find a zowie to get a feel for. So I felt other mice they had there. This includes the G502, G900, Deathadder, and the Rival 300. The G502 and G900 actually feel nice its not what I'm looking and the price ain't right. Deathadder is meh. I don't know if comparing the Deathadder shape to the Zowie is fair butif its similar then I probably won't like it. The Deathadder is weird. The Rival 300, I'm glad you guys convinced me not to get it because I don't like it. Clicks are terrible.
scrain8
49 posts
Joined March 2009
Topic Starter
scrain8
So I realized something about the G403 and me (actually I learned a lout about myself this motnh). I don't feel like I can get a good handle on it. One of the biggest things I noticed was the front end was elevated quite higher than the sensei. Consquently I feel as though I'm pushing more horizontally across my fingert than downward. This is probably confusing. I think my hand is too small? My hand if I measured right is 17.18cm long and about 8.6 wide. I guess it's back to searching sadly. Is my observation wrong?

I guess its important to note I'm a tap/z/x player.
im a fancy lad
Former osu! Champion: 2022
22 posts
Joined September 2014
im a fancy lad
I use the Mazer E-Blue

Pretty good aim, the wired version is quite light, and it has a well built thumb rest which helps when your hand is sweaty.

I recommend it :)
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