I am posting this for my friend, for he is afraid of negative view by the community. Any posts I make in response to this are his words, however I am posting them.

What I’ve found in this community as of late is a lack of competitiveness.

Because what does being #1 really mean right now? What does being in the top #100 mean? That you had the most time to farm maps?

The state of the osu!standard ranked ladder reminds me of League of Legends after dynamic queue was introduced. For those of you that don’t play, League is a 5v5 PvP MOBA game, and so happens to be among the top played PC games in the world. Solo queue was the ranked ladder that’s purpose was to determine the skill of the individual. However, Riot Games, the company that owns League of Legends, decided to combine all ladders with “Dynamic Queue,” a ladder in which you could play as a team of 5, as a group of 2-4, or as an individual.

The fundamental issue, in this case, was that groups against groups was not 100% the same. So an individual player and a group of 4 could play against a team of 5.

What ultimately happened was that, in the early season, the ladder meant nothing for the best players. Being #1 on the Dynamic Queue ladder wouldn’t yield you much other than community recognition, if that. No professional teams would pick you up unless you were unearthly good.
As a result, Riot Games changed the rules in the highest levels of gameplay, only allowing for duo and solo queueing in Diamond (roughly top 2%) and only solo in Masters/Challenger (top 0.05%).

Because the ladder was flawed, competition in the higher levels was stifled, and there was little motivation to become better. There was still competition because League is one of the top played PC games of all time, but osu is not league. And this brings me to my point.

The osu!standard ladder is not an accurate representation of players’ individual skill. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. Is Riviclia, a phenomenal EZDT mouse only player with nearly 1600 hours, really not as good as Zirba, an HDDT player with 900? Are most of the people in the top #100 really the most accurate, precise, and consistent players across multiple skills? I don’t think so.

This leads me to ask the following question: What is the point of the osu!standard ladder? The goal of ladders in general is to determine individual skill, and to be able to say that one player is better than another based on rating. But you can’t, because right now, the ladder is flawed. Most decide to abuse the system to get higher, for the sake of getting higher. If you ask me, this is not how ranked ladders are supposed to function.

So what does this mean for the game? It means that there is no motivation to become a better player. There is little competition, because who cares, right? So what if rustbell set a breathtaking score on Axion, that was only 242pp. Angelsim just farmed a 600pp score on yet another one minute anime song with HDDT.

Imagine osu!standard where the ladder was a real representation of players’ overall skill. Of their talent. Think about how different the game would be, how much more interesting it would be, and how many more players would be recognized for their greatness. How much more inspiring it would be to watch the highest ranked players. Think about tournaments, and how osu!standard could be recognized as a legitimate eSport.

I long for the days when everyone in the top #100 will deserve their spot, and will be recognized for it. I hope that one day, the most efficient way to climb the ladder will not be farming maps as almost everyone does. I hope that we, as a community, can fix the system from being abused. Because as the days pass, it becomes more and more obvious. Why do we have to vote for the best players every year? Isn’t that what the ranked ladder is supposed to do for us in the first place?

This is why I say the following: If we, as humans, can seemingly dodge every obstacle, travel to space, prevent disease on a massive scale, and have a working ladder in so many other competitive video games – why not osu?

I encourage you, the player, to come up with a new algorithm. I propose that we make a new system, as it is long overdue.

But for the sake of this forum post, I propose that the devs come up with a new system.

Scorev2...

t/494470

And next time just have your bud do it. No one is going to hate on him that hard for making a suggestion he believe will benefit the community. There are some mean people on here, but they are heavily outweighed by the good. Tell him HI for me

This should be in Gameplay & Rankings As you are not requesting a feature and just suggesting the community come together to make something.
Please read the Forum Guidelines before posting. Thanks!

As for the OP: I think there is still a very large competitive edge to the game. You mention farming but farming isn't a bad thing. Nor is it something that is easy. If farming was so easy why are there not more battles for #1 instead of just 3 players? Also LoL is a lot different than osu! you can't compare the two. osu! is a ryhthm game and LoL is an MMORPG. The reason LoL dynamic queue ladder doesn't hold much value is because people can be carried by their premades to get there, in osu that isn't possible. osu! tournaments are community run (mostly) and I have participated/staffed for quite a few of them and there is a lot of competitiveness there. osu! is unique as the game is completely subjective. There are various mapping styles, playstyles, and reasons why people play. For the most part I see people happy about how competitive osu! is. There are lots of things to compete in. You can compete in tournaments, leaderboards, scoreboards, tournaments, and even monthly charts. The way I see it osu! is doing just fine. There are a lot of people coining the term "farming" as bad, but the people who are "farming" are just playing the game and getting rewarded for scores they set on a map. There are lots of people complaining about the overweighted pp system but if you said is true and people don't care about leaderboards, than people shouldn't be caring about pp. Just my opinion on this topic.
You also mentioned on voting for top players, but everyone has their own opinion. and players who use the mod like EZ and are insane at it won't be in the top 50 because EZ makes the game easier (esentially) so they are given a lower score modifier.
I hope you didn't make an account just to post this.

Sandy Hoey wrote:

Scorev2...

t/494470

Score v2 is seperate from the pp system, no? peppy stated that scorev2 was the end goal for standard from what I could find, and the changes in score will only indirectly affect which scores people decide to make in terms of rankings. I'm pretty sure that most players who farm care not about their score as much as the pp they get

Cawub wrote:

This should be in Gameplay & Rankings As you are not requesting a feature and just suggesting the community come together to make something.

Please read the Forum Guidelines before posting. Thanks!

"This forum should be used to get advice and feedback, talking about Ranks and how to improve" according to the guidelines for Gameplay & rankings. Also according to the Feature Request forum guidelines, there's nothing against this type of post, due to the following:

OsuGreatAgain wrote:

But for the sake of this forum post, I propose that the devs come up with a new system.

This is what I'm saying, a new system, which I propose to the devs.

In my opinion I don't think the post belongs here because I don't see you requesting a feature. The way I see it is someone saying to change the pp system. There are already plenty of posts in the Feature Request that talk about ways to improve the system instead of just saying to change it and not give any solutions to it.

You want a better algorithm, you code it. Tom isn't working on the pp system anymore.

<deleted>

i have nothing against a new system, but i disagree with your post.
there is still alot of competitiveness to the game, especially in the high ranks.
not many people get into the top 100 without being good at many different things.
"angelsim just farmed a 600pp score on yet another one minute anime song with HDDT" those plays are hard even for him, and are still very impressive and hard to do, only like 2 or 3 other people in the world (or none) could do that play depending on what play youre talking about. Angelsim is good at alot of things, not just "farming" HDDT, he has amazing stream aim. he got #1 (even though he lost it) for a reason.
usually people that are not in top 100 that are amazingly good are already recognized, and usually have some kind of reason as to why they arent top 100, for instance MinG3012 has bad (on purpose) so he doesnt gain as much pp as he actually could.
currently nearly everyone in the top 100 are on a completely different league than palyers outside of it, with expections like MinG3012 and -GN not being in top 100. everyone in the top 100 has multiple skills and are good at them, very good at them infact.
you dont just get top 100 by farming, getting top 100 isnt that easy. the ladder is somewhat flawed, as it was meant for old style maps, and new style maps (technical maps, such as AXION) are heavily underweighted due to this. however a perfect system is impossible to create, people will always have different opinions as to what is harder than something else, and in reality were in a rock paper scissors type of situation, for instance map x is harder than y, but y is harder than z, but z is harder than x. which of those maps is the hardest then? map z is harder than x which is harder than y which is supposed to be harder than z. this is why we cant make a perfect system for this.
also tell your friend to post it himself.
also, if youre posting it for a friend, did you answer to these posts yourself or did your friend do it? you didnt specify. if your friend did it did he do so on your account? account sharing is not allowed.
EDIT: you talked about yourself as "i" so that makes me think even more that you didnt actually write it but the friend who came up with this

Spending half of your post comparing osu! to League of Legends when those have about nothing in common is pretty bad move.
It's also a bad move to basically just complain about how bad everything is but not coming up with something yourself.

You should start making osu great again by making feature requests great again via actual quality requests.

I understood that OP wanted to have the amazing non-DT players get a chance to stand out more in the community.

I don't see a need for a new system as much as maybe different ladders. For example, in addition to the overall PP ladder, have separate sections for pp from scores including with and without +DT. That would sublty divide the players base to let them compete with their strenghts against others who enjoy a certain kind of challange.

I'm not saying the people at the top right now aren't amazing players, this would just open a some competition for the non-hyperspeed players.

As for the technical part, the basic solomod plays should have their own tab and I don't think they should mix with multimod plays. For checking out certain mod scores/ladders, it would be pretty "simple" to have a box with all the +mods, and by clicking on mods, they add on to the searchfilter and find you the best +HDDTFLHRSO play recorded. (I don't know how difficult this actually is to create, hence just giving a consumer PoV)

Do you even know how the current system works and what's going on to make it better?
I highly suggest gathering more info before posting a complain, because everyone can do that.


Bring ideas, thanks.



Unless you come up with something in the description, this is invalid due to lack of information (no, I don't care about League. It's osu! we're talking about)