This is an open discussion to talk about the current state of Catch the Beat and any suggestions that can change it.

The opinion i am hearing from lots of people is that CTB is in a really bad spot right now and the community is very negative. I do agree do this to some extent

• The chat becomes inactive more often than before
  There is tons of drama surrounding ctb
  There is a lot of hate towards CTB mappers

These are a few points that I see is making CTB not as enjoyable for some. I understand that different people have different interests in maps but unless you have something constructive to give to the mapper you shouldn't be saying anything at all. Yes this is the internet and it's full of trolls but osu! is a community driven game and if we have mappers quit because players won't stop hating on them, and we have players quitting because of all the drama that is being caused then we wont have much of a game to play.

I'm not the only one who misses how #ctb used to be. It was the main reason i even thought of playing CTB as my main mode. The people i met were really nice and encouraged me to keep playing. I feel like new players who join osu turn away from #ctb because there is a lot of drama in there at times.

I know every community has its problems but that doesn't mean we should ignore them. I think something needs to change or else the ctb community might actually die out.

On top of all the drama there is some issues with the pp system and overweighted/underweighted maps. This is more or less the reason mappers are getting hate. score v2 will change lots of how pp is weighted so there isnt much to even complain about until that comes.

I wanted to make an open discussion about the state of CTB and see what others think could change.

What do you think about the current state of Catch the Beat and what are some things you would like to see changed.

people get butthurt too easily

i like score v2 also i really don't pay attention to drama that much dealing with mapping or other mappers

The Dash mechanics turn me off

My ideal Dash mechanics: there are 2 types of Dash Fruits, cyan for normal dash, red for hyperdash, you are only allowed to dash/hyperdash after having catched them and they are still in effect.

See that it's not just me then Not really sure exactly what happened but I know the community was larger before V2 but not sure if that was the reason so many dropped out or not. Been almost the exact same people in chat and forums for as long as I can remember for the majority. I've seen a lot of people wanting to learn CTB recently but they all ask what the community is like and well I'm not really sure what to tell them most of the time....

New ranking criteria for CtB and DT x1.12

I see lots of people talking about drama. I don't see any drama tho.

Paranoid Grapes wrote:

people get butthurt too easily

a m e n

PakaChan wrote:

I see lots of people talking about drama. I don't see any drama tho.

Just yesterday there was lots a drama about CTB mapping in #ctb

Cawub wrote:

PakaChan wrote:

I see lots of people talking about drama. I don't see any drama tho.

Just yesterday there was lots a drama about CTB mapping in #ctb

2 people talking and having different opinions isn't drama. You people need to get out more, that's what's wrong with CTB.

2 people talking and having different opinions isn't drama. You people need to get out more, that's what's wrong with CTB.
I agree

If you're going for the Statement that the CTB Community at large has a lot of issues, then i would agree, there is quite a bunch of stuff to be fixed systematicly.

First of, there is the socioeconomic Status of what is incentivised to be played, either by the number of people who compete on a given song due to how flamboyant its charateristics are.....or how effective/productve the Map is, to let the player progress in their goals rank/Score/PP etc.

Then there is the Social Divide between the Ideals of Mappers between themselfs, and the Players (or in some cases in niche-categorys)
(Which this disscussion was about)

And just the fact that the CTB community is mostly a small consolidated Vocal group that you either see in this Subforum or in #ctb
Most other CTB players just decided to play in their own social circles, or just by themselfs.

So everything that happens within the community is visibly apparent in a short amount of time...so people love to jump into the disscussion
just to stir up some "drama" to entertain themselfs

Just yesterday there was lots a drama about CTB mapping in #ctb

2 people talking and having different opinions isn't drama. You people need to get out more, that's what's wrong with CTB.

if you went later into the conversation it turned from 2 people having opinions to 2 people arguing. There isn't anything wrong with people having different opinions and voicing them but it went from that to a mapper saying what else was wrong with CTB (death threats, hate etc.) which isn't something I like ctb being known for.

Kingkevin30 wrote:

If you're going for the Statement that the CTB Community at large has a lot of issues, then i would agree, there is quite a bunch of stuff to be fixed systematicly.

For once, there is the socioeconomic Status of what is incentivised to be played, either by the number of people who compete on a given song due to how flamboyant its charateristics are.....or how effective/productve the Map is, to let the player progress in their goals rank/Score/PP etc.

Then there is the Social Divide between the Ideals of Mappers between themselfs, and the Players (or in some cases in niche-categorys)
(Which this disscussion was about)

And just the fact that the CTB community is mostly a small consolidated Vocal group that you either see in this Subforum or in #ctb
Most other CTB players just decided to play in their own social circles, or just by themselfs.

So everything that happens within the community is visibly apparent in a short amount of time...so people love to jump into the disscussion
just to stir up some "drama" to entertain themselfs

There are many mapper against mapper problems as well which is another problem, there have been a lot of players quit and stop playing because of the CTB community which sucks, even a couple months ago CTB wasnt like this granted there were more people in #ctb at the time so it wasnt as noticeable but those players started disappearing and no longer talking and then all the toxicity and everything was easier to see.

Cawub wrote:

There are many mapper against mapper problems as well which is another problem, there have been a lot of players quit and stop playing because of the CTB community which sucks, even a couple months ago CTB wasnt like this granted there were more people in #ctb at the time so it wasnt as noticeable but those players started disappearing and no longer talking and then all the toxicity and everything was easier to see.

That really isn't anything new, every major shift in how stuff worked left people unsatisfied, First it was the HR&DT Mulitplicator changes in 2009; the new Hyperdash-Mechanic in i think 2011 ? ; the Fix of the Hyper HD-Bug in 2012-2013 ; and now its the New Mapping Meta that has build up through the roots of early 2013-2014 Mapping.

Paranoid Grapes wrote:

people get butthurt too easily

I'm not even sure why there is more conversation than that.

Krah wrote:

Paranoid Grapes wrote:

people get butthurt too easily

I'm not even sure why there is more conversation than that.

This, and people don't know how to use the wonderful ignore/block functions. Here are my other observations:

PP: It's normal for there to be conversation about it, doesn't necessarily mean anything is wrong. People love to criticize it although I don't think it has that much of an effect on CtB other than confusing new players about what difficulty means in CtB.

Community: I've always thought the community here was really good compared to other online games. Community is heavily influenced by the relationship between players and mappers. 3-4 years ago there weren't nearly as many well known CtB mappers so the community was much more close knit. Now there are more CtB mappers and mappers with ranked maps, meaning more cliques and whatnot.

How to fix: Encourage communication between players and mappers somehow, include disclaimer on every pp graph that pp doesn't necessarily correlate to skill, teach people how to use block/ignore.

-Kurisu- wrote:

This, and people don't know how to use the wonderful ignore/block functions. Here are my other observations:

PP: It's normal for there to be conversation about it, doesn't necessarily mean anything is wrong. People love to criticize it although I don't think it has that much of an effect on CtB other than confusing new players about what difficulty means in CtB.

Community: I've always thought the community here was really good compared to other online games. Community is heavily influenced by the relationship between players and mappers. 3-4 years ago there weren't nearly as many well known CtB mappers so the community was much more close knit. Now there are more CtB mappers and mappers with ranked maps, meaning more cliques and whatnot.

How to fix: Encourage communication between players and mappers somehow, include disclaimer on every pp graph that pp doesn't necessarily correlate to skill, teach people how to use block/ignore.

Even through playing CTB for a year i still have no clue how PP system works, I agree the community is much better than other games but what I've noticed is that it is not as good as lots of communities in osu, I always think the community can be better, there are great players and really good people but it feels like they are becoming less and less in my experience. I also agree that more CTB mappers are becoming well known and I like that

huh

There will always be differences between people, you can't make everyone being the same and having the same opinion. What can be changed, at least, is how you or anyone else say his opinion about a certain map or mapper. Sure, you can say you don't like X map, explaining why and how it could be better, building up an healthy conversation. But when you just say you don't like all osu!catch specific map/mappers because they are just easys or they only map easy ones is inappropriate and spreads toxic. This will though never change as long as the community only has 10 actively speaking people and no one helps the mappers to improve their maps. All of us needs to do something in order to improve this, tell to these people to stop talking like that or shift the conversation into a better one, if that not helps, use report.

Well, thats just my own opinion. Which obviously, might differ from someone else's.

We just need everyone to accept that others have different views and that if you have an opinion you should explain to the world why the opinion is that since theyre all subjective.also respecg others in a convo, arguements start in ctb because people disagree on stupid topics and dont let go of their self pride to see other peoples views.

Let's see what we have here..

Cawub wrote:

The chat becomes inactive more often than before

One point could be the reason because CTB is the smallest community of all, there is just a handful of users - in a metaphorical sense obv - in the community, compared to the other communities. However, this shouldn't stop you to call yourself as 'community'. Why even? Obviously, the reason is deeper than just the small number of users. Other reasoning could be the general behaviour of the existing community - except of being toxic to each other, if the chat can't offer content to read for user why would you become active anyway? #ctb often ends in a memefest, reasonable why some don't want to participate in the conversations. Of course having fun is fine but spamming emotes is.. just stupid.

Cawub wrote:

There is tons of drama surrounding ctb

That's obviously something every community has, more or less. I really can't say much how extreme are the cases here but from what I've experienced it was less related to CTB but to other things.

Cawub wrote:

There is a lot of hate towards CTB mappers

Huh.. I didn't know that's also the case for CTB (this actually applies for many times in Mania). However, if someone says "xyz mapped abc really bad and they shouldn't map", let them be. You can't force people to accept the maps they don't like. That's wrong.

Stefan wrote:

Let's see what we have here..
One point could be the reason because CTB is the smallest community of all, there is just a handful of users - in a metaphorical sense obv - in the community, compared to the other communities. However, this shouldn't stop you to call yourself as 'community'. Why even? Obviously, the reason is deeper than just the small number of users. Other reasoning could be the general behaviour of the existing community - except of being toxic to each other, if the chat can't offer content to read for user why would you become active anyway? #ctb often ends in a memefest, reasonable why some don't want to participate in the conversations. Of course having fun is fine but spamming emotes is.. just stupid.

#ctb used to be quite active a while ago even with less players, but now it ends with everyone repeating each other and spamming nonsense more than less. Some people may find the chat fine like this but I want to go back to having it as active as it used to be instead of going inactive every 10 minutes.

Stefan wrote:

That's obviously something every community has, more or less. I really can't say much how extreme are the cases here but from what I've experienced it was less related to CTB but to other things.

Lots of the drama/arguments that have been happening in #ctb aren't even related to CTB and they just go into #ctb to vent. Venting isn't bad but I wish they would find somewhere else to do it.

Stefan wrote:

Huh.. I didn't know that's also the case for CTB (this actually applies for many times in Mania). However, if someone says "xyz mapped abc really bad and they shouldn't map", let them be. You can't force people to accept the maps they don't like. That's wrong.

I want people to more constructive if they hate a map and tell the mapper what they don't like about said map. If not it's just useless hate that no one benefits from which usually results in mappers getting upset that their maps get bad rating. (Mostly agree with what Kurokami said in his post)

Paranoid Grapes wrote:

We just need everyone to accept that others have different views and that if you have an opinion you should explain to the world why the opinion is that since theyre all subjective.also respecg others in a convo, arguements start in ctb because people disagree on stupid topics and dont let go of their self pride to see other peoples views.

Feels like people just start stuff because they are bored. If people are going to argue about nonsense I would rather them keep it on Twitter or Reddit

Kurokami wrote:

huh

There will always be differences between people, you can't make everyone being the same and having the same opinion. What can be changed, at least, is how you or anyone else say his opinion about a certain map or mapper. Sure, you can say you don't like X map, explaining why and how it could be better, building up an healthy conversation. But when you just say you don't like all osu!catch specific map/mappers because they are just easys or they only map easy ones is inappropriate and spreads toxic. This will though never change as long as the community only has 10 actively speaking people and no one helps the mappers to improve their maps. All of us needs to do something in order to improve this, tell to these people to stop talking like that or shift the conversation into a better one, if that not helps, use report.

Well, thats just my own opinion. Which obviously, might differ from someone else's.

I agree with the points you made :/ I want people to be constructive so that the mappers can benefit from it and not get pointless hate.

how to fix ctb




dont play it, k solved it

Fantasy wrote:

how to fix ctb




dont play it, k solved it

Inactive chat then :^)

Paranoid Grapes wrote:

Fantasy wrote:

how to fix ctb




dont play it, k solved it

Inactive chat then :^)

thats fine, it'll be like mania

Tbh I think people should just stop caring and not do threads like this and or stop complaining about everything like amlink

Fantasy wrote:

how to fix ctb

dont play it, k solved it

Coming from the drama lord himself, smh.

On the original topic: Pretty much the community is either, from my personal experience when it comes to how the cancer gets started, 1. Too easily disgruntled over subjective stuff that often doesn't matter (like PP or mapping meta, DQs, opinions in general), 2. Don't really care so they don't participate (which can sometimes be for the best) or 3. Actively trying to start trouble due to either their own personal issues or boredom.

The chat at this point has become a meme factory and communication between players and mappers is downright shameful. We're low on modders and nominators to bring good maps into the light and the community itself is tiny and bound to cause issues quickly. There's not much that can be done about it other than remember to respect on another and be civil.
If you can't do that, then how do you expect to fix the drama?

I think one of the ways that can help is if more diverse maps are created and if we just trying to understand one another. Otherwise, Ctb is just gonna stay stagnant.

I have hope for some change after the next BN exams though, since our community isnt dead yet.

Kyptoric wrote:

Tbh I think people should just stop caring and not do threads like this and or stop complaining about everything like amlink

I dont see anything wrong with having a discussion thread about a topic everyone talks about in #ctb anyways

Well, I just want to throw my hand in there and say I haven't been around online in forever to see the CtB community and such but I look at it as a whole from what I read, people should stop blaming the entire community and point out the people that are causing the issues, preferably in private, and handle them. It really worries me how my last online CtB was years ago yet the rank I'm at would be high for standard, I'm totally willing to meet the good upstanding members of the community, and even though I know there's issues, I'm still totally willing to join it in hopes that it can be better one day. This was more sparked by the fact I can actually be proud of myself in CtB.

But aside from that I think it's more just call people out on their garbage and show that it isn't the full community and more certain individuals. Because it appears as though everyone is like that which isn't true since people are trying to fix it, so if it's brought to light the people that cause trouble then the other's will be seen as the good members they are.

Yeah I know I'm new and my online rank is probably garbage, so my words probably don't have the same weight as people much higher ranked. But I wouldn't feel right joining a community in trouble and not trying to fix it to be something that I'd want to be in.

SuiGeneris wrote:

call people out on their garbage and show that it isn't the full community and more certain individuals.

I know what you mean, there ae good people in the community and they shouldn't be bunched with the people who arent so good.

SuiGeneris wrote:

Yeah I know I'm new and my online rank is probably garbage, so my words probably don't have the same weight as people much higher ranked.

Your online ranking doesnt mean you cant voice your opinion, most people wont decide whether your post is good or not based on rank

SuiGeneris wrote:

But I wouldn't feel right joining a community in trouble and not trying to fix it to be something that I'd want to be in.

This is what I mean when i say it feels like new players are being pushed away because of how people are in #ctb

has nothing to do with drama im saying the real fix, stop talking about fixing ctb, theres nothing wrong with it. just enjoy the game and play. If you think theres something wrong with the community then ingore it, Community is subjective many people see it differently, #ctb is a lot like #osu and #mania. the only real community i consider "real" is taiko, but taiko is closed off and its very inside, ctb is outside, meaning a lot of discord servers and skype communities are more predominate. I still remember #ctbterror, good ol' times

Fantasy wrote:

has nothing to do with drama im saying the real fix, stop talking about fixing ctb, theres nothing wrong with it. just enjoy the game and play. If you think theres something wrong with the community then ingore it, Community is subjective many people see it differently, #ctb is a lot like #osu and #mania. the only real community i consider "real" is taiko, but taiko is closed off and its very inside, ctb is outside, meaning a lot of discord servers and skype communities are more predominate. I still remember #ctbterror, good ol' times

At the risk of sounding stupid, but what do you mean by "the real fix", gameplay wise I don't think there's anything I believe needs fixing, I just enjoy the game as is.

I see osu! is a community based game and people shouldn't have to go to somewhere else just to be with other players, they should all be able to get on the game and talk and whatnot, and it's hard to ignore such a predominant issue, because if ignoring it was a possibility there wouldn't be this thread and it be so full.

Also thanks for responding so much to me Cawub. I just wanted to put in what I saw and felt.

EDIT: I also see as there shouldn't be real or fake communities, people should just get along and play the game, but since it's the internet that's too much to wish for.

ｙｏｕ　ｈａｖｅ　ｍｕｃｈ　ｔｏ　ｌｅａｒｎ　ｇｒａｓｓｈｏｐｐｅｒ

Fantasy, I probably do, but being quiet and sheltered isn't the way to learn.

Fantasy wrote:

stop talking about fixing ctb, theres nothing wrong with it.

Mappers getting death threats isnt something wrong? #CTB is pretty bad now its mostly meme spam. Some people may like that but it gets to the point where it keeps players from wanting to play ctb and talk in #ctb. The reason I kept playing CTB was because all the people were nice to talk to and it was fun talking in #ctb. I'm not saying there arent good people I'm saying I don't like talking in #ctb because all anyone really does is spam memes. The lack of mods in #ctb dont help either.

Fantasy wrote:

If you think theres something wrong with the community then ingore it, Community is subjective many people see it differently

Community is a subjective matter but community is what keeps osu! alive. If mappers in the community keep quitting because of the ctb community there wont be much to play. I am voicing my opinion and it seems like people agree with what I said. If you ignore problems how are they every going to get fixed.

You may not see that there is anything wrong but I do, and that's why I made this thread. If you don't agree with me you can just ignore me.

Cawub wrote:

Fantasy wrote:

stop talking about fixing ctb, theres nothing wrong with it.

Mappers getting death threats isnt something wrong? #CTB is pretty bad now its mostly meme spam. Some people may like that but it gets to the point where it keeps players from wanting to play ctb and talk in #ctb. The reason I kept playing CTB was because all the people were nice to talk to and it was fun talking in #ctb. I'm not saying there arent good people I'm saying I don't like talking in #ctb because all anyone really does is spam memes. The lack of mods in #ctb dont help either.

Whilst I appreciate that this is still a bad thing, I'm assuming the "mappers getting death threats" thing is referring to the death threats I got, however, this only actually happened like three times, all around the same point in time, so whilst it is an issue, mentioning it this much makes it seem a lot more common than it actually is (Although, maybe there are other mappers who have got these too, and I just never heard of these cases).

Cawub wrote:

#ctb used to be quite active a while ago even with less players, but now it ends with everyone repeating each other and spamming nonsense more than less. Some people may find the chat fine like this but I want to go back to having it as active as it used to be instead of going inactive every 10 minutes.

I've barely seen #ctb being /really/ active but that could be me. Also, 10 minutes without a message is considered as "inactive chat"?

Cawub wrote:

Lots of the drama/arguments that have been happening in #ctb aren't even related to CTB and they just go into #ctb to vent. Venting isn't bad but I wish they would find somewhere else to do it.

It isn't necessarily required that the topic is ctb-related since the channel is created for the community, not for the mode mainly. Obviously, things which are too sensitive shouldn't be topics to talk about.

Cawub wrote:

I want people to more constructive if they hate a map and tell the mapper what they don't like about said map. If not it's just useless hate that no one benefits from which usually results in mappers getting upset that their maps get bad rating. (Mostly agree with what Kurokami said in his post)

I tried that a lot of times with #taiko and #german to explain why they call xyz map as shit. it doesn't work to 100% however. Some may try at least to explain but other players will just dislike it because they hate how it plays, you don't need a specific reason for this. sure, shittalking shouldn't become something common but then again you can't stop one saying they dislike the map. You can try to tell them they should use a better wording to describe their opinion but that's all.

death threats on a fruit catching game? oh man


ｗｈｅｎ　ｆｒｕｉｔ　ｂｅｃｏｍｅｓ　ｓｅｒｉｏｕｓ

Fantasy wrote:

death threats on a fruit catching game? oh man


ｗｈｅｎ　ｆｒｕｉｔ　ｂｅｃｏｍｅｓ　ｓｅｒｉｏｕｓ

Would be suprised. Some take mapping way too serious and sometimes takes it out on whoever made it thinking it has to be perfect or a certain mapping style. That happened to Shiro when that Wagakki Band - Tengaku map was ranked, which was a lot more publicly involved.

how to make #ctb better
-have more ctb players
-ban butthurt people
-add more #ctb moderators
-ban butthurt and mean ctb nominators

why is this forum post still alive?

The game mode is a little rough around the edges *cough Cough* star rating system *cough cough*, but the gameplay mechanics aren't the problem its the community. People dislike maps being not worth what they are worth and start trouble with the mappers when in all honesty its not there fault its the games the mechanics cause the game to rate the maps what they are not the mapper. I whole heartedly believe that if the SR system was more accurate CLSW and Koli's (there are more mappers but they are the most known ctb mappers so I think of them first don't ride my ass plz thx) maps would be exactly the same just worth less. The map with the super hard jumps but few FC's would have more FC's if it was rated accurately because PP draws more attention and more motivation to complete something.

I do believe that the community would be much better if we could all get along but in reality that is impossible. Its not possible for everyone to like everyone else but why do some people go out of there way to explain they don't like someone in a public chat. Its one thing going to pm and saying "I hate ****** because he has a bad attitude..." it should stay on the pm and be final. Drama should not go out to #ctb or twitter or youtube. People should learn to keep hatred private and ignore the person you dislike. If the person you dislike is irritating you or pming you then ignore him/block him.

I understand I am an irrelevant player. I am guilty of doing some of the things I mentioned that are wrong, but I enjoy ctb and conversing in #ctb and I would hate to see that all go away because of some pitty drama about mappers or players.

P.S necro bump cause I like to converse

P.S.S Pumpkin Collab Hella OP

If players would stop meddling with other players' affairs, that'd be great.

There's nothing much to fix really. The game is fun, the community is decent, pp is pp... Can't see anything worth complaining about unless you're salty as fuck with your own rank because you're firm in not wanting to farm pp maps. (which is okay, but please, don't call people out for farming, why should you care anyway?)

CTB is nice and all, but going full drama over trivial shit like this stupid, imho..

Rurree wrote:

If players would stop meddling with other players' affairs, that'd be great.

There's nothing much to fix really. The game is fun, the community is decent, pp is pp... Can't see anything worth complaining about unless you're salty as fuck with your own rank because you're firm in not wanting to farm pp maps. (which is okay, but please, don't call people out for farming, why should you care anyway?)

CTB is nice and all, but going full drama over trivial shit like this stupid, imho..

Goes a little deeper than just maps, ranks, pp, or things like that. Have seen a number of people straight out never log back on a single time due to some of the things that goes around on in forums. Some transfer over to the game also, it hasn't really happened much lately, then again there is only the same people on as usual. Have seen a lot of new people wanting to get started but they keep disappearing not long after for some reason.

here's how we fix ctb:

1. ignore the imaginary numbers on your profile
2. don't blame mappers because their maps give pp
3. shut the fuck up about farming
4. move on with our lives because in 2 years no one will give a damn if you SS'd image material and got top 50

Ascendance wrote:

here's how we fix ctb:

1. ignore the imaginary numbers on your profile
2. don't blame mappers because their maps give pp
3. shut the fuck up about farming
4. move on with our lives because in 2 years no one will give a damn if you SS'd image material and got top 50

lol sounds about right.

As a lot of people have been mentioning that people need to stop caring about rank and pp I don't see anything wrong with it. osu! is a competitive game if you want to play it as such so aiming for higher score or rank isn't a problem in my eyes. I agree some people take it too far sometimes but generally it shouldn't matter how others choose to play the game.

Cawub wrote:

I'm assuming the "mappers getting death threats" thing is referring to the death threats I got

I wasn't referring to the threats you got nor was I aware of them, this also shows it's a bit more common.

Stefan wrote:

It isn't necessarily required that the topic is ctb-related since the channel is created for the community, not for the mode mainly. Obviously, things which are too sensitive shouldn't be topics to talk about.

The reason I made the point that lots of arguments weren't even ctb related was because I would see personal arguments and people arguing about things that imo shouldn't be in #ctb

Lolinator2000 wrote:

add more #ctb moderators

I don't blame the people who want to play the game competitively. I play osustandard and ctb and my main goal is to rank up, regardless of the maps or mods I have to play. My MAIN issue is those competitve players who cry about every new map and say "I wont play image material cause its too easy" then say "waaa why is everyone passing me stupid farmers". Farming is literally just playing the game. By saying "don't farm" it's like saying "don't play".