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Rate the Mapping Technique - Round 38: Tick-Hitsounds

posted
Total Posts
54

Rate on a scale of 1 to 5 (Read post before answering)

5 - Love Them!
64
31.07%
4 -
37
17.96%
3 -
29
14.08%
2 -
37
17.96%
1 - Hate Them!
39
18.93%
Total votes: 206
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
NoHitter
Round 38: Tick-Hitsounds



Nominated by Rolled. Consists of slider ticks that has been replaced with a standard hitsound (clap, whistle, finish - usually overlayed with hit-normal/soft for accurate sound). These are usually used to make a hitsound seem "constant" even during a slider.

Map(s) that use this technique
Owl City - Fireflies mapped by Larto
John Legend (feat. Andre 3000) - Green Light mapped by EEeee
Capcom Sound Team - Chill Man mapped by CracK

~Mapping Technique Nominations~
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Rolled
MOTHER FREAKING FIVE.

(as long as they are overlayed with hitnormal)
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish
MOTHER FREAKING 1

There is never any reason to do this ever
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
As I made a map with these, I can't vote 1, but most of the time there's little reason to do this. Sliders do mess up the clap pattern occasionally, though, and it's nice to keep it going.
Xgor
Elite Mapper
2,534 posts
Joined April 2009
Xgor
I find them ok when there are only hitsounds on all of them, otherwise.. not so found of them.

2.
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
NatsumeRin
2.
not real hitsounds, and sometimes sounds not really good since it won't have the hitnormal sound.
and fuck yeah it's abused a lot.
Jarby
2,963 posts
Joined August 2008
Jarby
These days I just see it as an artificial way of maintaining clap patterns. No, I don't like how that works.
Krisom
osu! Alumni
2,867 posts
Joined April 2009
Krisom

NatsumeRin wrote:

not real hitsounds, and sometimes sounds not really good since it won't have the hitnormal sound.
and fuck yeah it's abused a lot.
I cannot agree more, though I voted 4 because it works sometimes if you're gonna use soft camples for the ticks and not loud claps or finishes (I'm looking at you derek)
Sure
4,220 posts
Joined February 2009
Sure
4
I often use it in Easy diff.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
It's a downright error when a normal hitsound is used on a slidertick.
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro
I think that when a normal hitsound is needed on a tick, the slider was misplaced. So yeah, huge dislike.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku

Rolled wrote:

MOTHER FREAKING FIVE.
This.

Krisom wrote:

it works sometimes if you're gonna use soft samples for the ticks and not loud claps or finishes (I'm looking at you derek)
What? o.o
Colin Hou
osu! Alumni
4,456 posts
Joined November 2009
Colin Hou

ykcarrot wrote:

often used in Easy diff.
necessary technique
Xgor
Elite Mapper
2,534 posts
Joined April 2009
Xgor

Colin Hou wrote:

ykcarrot wrote:

often used in Easy diff.
necessary technique
No it's not
GladiOol
4,475 posts
Joined August 2008
GladiOol
Overused too many times unfortuantly.
If used as in Rolled diff. in Green Light pure 5.
So I voted 3~
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
Normally I'd rate this very low, however, a map I just made (lixAxil) has a certain pattern that uses a normal-hitnormal as a slidertick while the rest is on soft and works perfectly with the music, so I can see that this kind of technique has potential that most mappers skip over (just like most techniques). I'll give it a 4.

MetalMario201 wrote:

It's a downright error when a normal hitsound is used on a slidertick.
Also,

No.
yeahyeahyeahhh
osu! Alumni
2,850 posts
Joined December 2008
yeahyeahyeahhh
2.

Few ones its worked in. I've tired, I've failed. Shouldn't be use unless you've achieved total baller status.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

MetalMario201 wrote:

It's a downright error when a normal hitsound is used on a slidertick.
This...
Pretty much if you have to use hitsounds on sliderticks there's already an error with the way you're using sliders on it, hitsounds should accompanny the map itself, and if you're using a slider like a slider is supposed to be used then you shouldn't have any need to use slider tick hitsounds at all.

so yeah. 1.
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
NatsumeRin
i'm not a fan of slidertick as already said but the reason you guys give is really weird.
take the simple example: clap at 2nd&4th white line skill, in a Easy or Normal diff you won't have enough beats to do so sometimes, and slidertick hitsounds would help you about that. and if you put all things "right", then it's probably no more a Easy/Normal.
OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock
If done right.
Sure
4,220 posts
Joined February 2009
Sure

Colin Hou wrote:

ykcarrot wrote:

often used in Easy diff.
necessary technique
It's not a necessary technique in my opinion.
In fact, it feels not so good when playing. It's fine when just listen.
It would be a bit helpful to who prefer using regular hitsound work like me.
Just, it's up to mapper. That's all. ^^
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac
I...

...Really don't mind them. They work well sometimes and shouldn't be hated, though I can see why it's a bit unconventional.

3 or 4...hmm... 3, probably.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

Shiirn wrote:

Also,

No.
Yes. It's important that different types of objects don't use the same sounds as each other, or if they do, that they do it in a consistent way. This lets the player know what type of object has been hit based on its sound.

If you want to use clapticks, you should put claps on every tick.
Lilac
Elite Mapper
1,515 posts
Joined December 2008
Lilac

MetalMario201 wrote:

Shiirn wrote:

Also,

No.
Yes. It's important that different types of objects don't use the same sounds as each other, or if they do, that they do it in a consistent way. This lets the player know what type of object has been hit based on its sound.

If you want to use clapticks, you should put claps on every tick.
...Beautiful Girls does that! 0_0
FireballFlame
280 posts
Joined May 2010
FireballFlame
Instant 1. One of the most excruciating things ever.
As a by-ear player, I've gotten misses/failed maps solely due to the "WTF" this induces.

MetalMario201 wrote:

It's important that different types of objects don't use the same sounds as each other, or if they do, that they do it in a consistent way. This lets the player know what type of object has been hit based on its sound.
^ !
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

MetalMario201 wrote:

different types of objects
Ah, I'm not following? There are 4 types of objects, 3 of which use the same sound(s) by default. So there are 2 different classes for sounds, sliderticks and things that aren't sliderticks. I would accept that reasoning if there were more than 2 different types of objects.

Although I suppose this is why you hate removing sliderslide and (maybe?) spinnerspin?
FireballFlame
280 posts
Joined May 2010
FireballFlame
Hitsounds are for the beginning and end of hitobjects. Slider ticks are completely irrelevant things you just pass by.

When I encounter "tickhitsounds" I usually do this:
- see slider
- start sliding
- look at next note
- hear hitsound, conclude that slider is over
- move mouse to next note
- sliderbreak

or, alternatively:
- see slider
- start sliding
- look at next note
- hear hitsound from the slider
- go WTF because slider CAN'T be over yet, look back to slider in confusion
- miss next notes

It's extremely irritating and therefore I hate it.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I hate them in the sense that if i see them it means that you added a sldier where you shouldnt have to
yongtw123
1,028 posts
Joined April 2009
yongtw123

NatsumeRin wrote:

i'm not a fan of slidertick as already said but the reason you guys give is really weird.
take the simple example: clap at 2nd&4th white line skill, in a Easy or Normal diff you won't have enough beats to do so sometimes, and slidertick hitsounds would help you about that. and if you put all things "right", then it's probably no more a Easy/Normal.
That's so true.

Unless the mapper doesn't place clapping rhythm on every 2nd and 4th white line, slidertick hitsound is a necessity.
Otherwise it will be very difficult to make a diff below 3 stars.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

yongtw123 wrote:

NatsumeRin wrote:

i'm not a fan of slidertick as already said but the reason you guys give is really weird.
take the simple example: clap at 2nd&4th white line skill, in a Easy or Normal diff you won't have enough beats to do so sometimes, and slidertick hitsounds would help you about that. and if you put all things "right", then it's probably no more a Easy/Normal.
That's so true.

Unless the mapper doesn't place clapping rhythm on every 2nd and 4th white line, slidertick hitsound is a necessity.
Otherwise it will be very difficult to make a diff below 3 stars.
You could map full of 1/1s if BPM's too fast you can map 2/1s and put claps every other note, if you follow the lyrics your hitsounds should be based on the lyrycs not on the instruments behind them, specially when you have a sustained note which calls for a slider, and then you decide to put claps on the main beat, the sliderticks already give the hitsound feeling for that so there's no need to add claps themselves to them, if you're mapping to an instrument and you put an slider when the instrument's clearly still going with a constant rythm then you're probably doing it wrong.
Luvdic
2,113 posts
Joined July 2009
Luvdic

Sakura Hana wrote:

You could map full of 1/1s if BPM's too fast you can map 2/1s and put claps every other note, if you follow the lyrics your hitsounds should be based on the lyrycs not on the instruments behind them, specially when you have a sustained note which calls for a slider, and then you decide to put claps on the main beat, the sliderticks already give the hitsound feeling for that so there's no need to add claps themselves to them, if you're mapping to an instrument and you put an slider when the instrument's clearly still going with a constant rythm then you're probably doing it wrong.
And yet there are songs where you want to follow the lyrics, but the beats are too strong to be ignored, and the hitsounds could be made to be even more awesome by doing that.

Anyways, this technique is awesome, voted 5.
I don't play many varieties of maps, but the ones i have played so far that uses this, usually makes the maps even more awesome, I guess it have to do with the fact that i love playing those sliders too.(eh, now that i think more, theres 2 or 3 maps that uses this technique very poorly but it doesnt makes me rage).
FireballFlame
280 posts
Joined May 2010
FireballFlame

ErufenRito wrote:

And yet there are songs where you want to follow the lyrics, but the beats are too strong to be ignored, and the hitsounds could be made to be even more awesome by doing that.
With clever placement of hitobjects and hitsounds you should be able to do this even without abusing the hitsounds. And even if not, it's still more important for a map to be playable (as explained in my previous post) than a few more hitsounds to fit the beat.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

ziin wrote:

Ah, I'm not following? There are 4 types of objects, 3 of which use the same sound(s) by default. So there are 2 different classes for sounds, sliderticks and things that aren't sliderticks. I would accept that reasoning if there were more than 2 different types of objects.
You missed the other side of my point. Those objects do so in a mutually consistent way, so the player can expect them to behave like this. Like I said, if EVERY tick in a map used a clap, it's not so bad.

yongtw123 wrote:

Otherwise it will be very difficult to make a diff below 3 stars.
Make it the same way you would anyway? Just don't put the ticksounds? I mean, if you remove all hitsounds and green lines from a map, it's still the same map, albeit a touch more boring to play.
Rolled
osu! Alumni
1,886 posts
Joined January 2008
Rolled

MetalMario201 wrote:

if EVERY tick in a map used a clap, it's not so bad.
That is probably the worst way to use tick sounds.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Rolled wrote:

MetalMario201 wrote:

if EVERY tick in a map used a clap, it's not so bad.
That is probably the worst way to use tick sounds.
What MM201 meant is that if you are going to change the hitsounds for sliderticks, every slidertick should sound the same for that particular section of the map. Or that's what i'm guessing he meant XD
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
NatsumeRin

Sakura Hana wrote:

You could map full of 1/1s if BPM's too fast you can map 2/1s and put claps every other note, if you follow the lyrics your hitsounds should be based on the lyrycs not on the instruments behind them, specially when you have a sustained note which calls for a slider, and then you decide to put claps on the main beat, the sliderticks already give the hitsound feeling for that so there's no need to add claps themselves to them, if you're mapping to an instrument and you put an slider when the instrument's clearly still going with a constant rythm then you're probably doing it wrong.
then the map would be easy enough (maybe) and really boring, i can't imagine someone want to just click at every clap place, and for long sliders needed it's still a way to solve problems. the hitsound feeling of sliderticks is really not great imo.

MetalMario201 wrote:

Make it the same way you would anyway? Just don't put the ticksounds? I mean, if you remove all hitsounds and green lines from a map, it's still the same map, albeit a touch more boring to play.
damn wrong, obviously. osu! is a rhythm game not papapappapapap game. if you can't do with nice hitsounds you can never be a really good mapper for sure. ticksounds is a technique to solve "have to deal with" problems, not anything creative, and there may be other ways to solve, so it's not really great. but saying such things is ahahahaha yes i can't understand why.
Krisom
osu! Alumni
2,867 posts
Joined April 2009
Krisom
Well, you can alawys hitsound to something different than the 2dn and 4th beats when the song wont let you hitsound those.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

MetalMario201 wrote:

You missed the other side of my point. Those objects do so in a mutually consistent way, so the player can expect them to behave like this. Like I said, if EVERY tick in a map used a clap, it's not so bad.
I didn't miss the point, I just didn't understand how you're so picky about one out of 6 different types of objects (circle, slider start, slider repeat, slider end, slider tick, spinner) when you only hit 2/6 of them, and 5/6 of them are identical in the hitsounds available to them. Yes, they are disorienting at times, but so are slider ends/repeats. Why are slider ticks so special?

We have claps, whistles, finishes, and two different sets of hitsounds. They are not consistent, and maps are boring if they are too consistent.

Why can we (and this is generally accepted) modify the hitsound of the end or repeat of a slider. Shouldn't they have a different hitsound? You don't actually hit them...

I see no good reason we can't put hitsounds on sliderticks other than the fact that it's usually best left on the default. I hope the people opposed to slider tick hitsounds are at least the same amount opposed to storyboarding hitsounds.

Krisom wrote:

Well, you can alawys hitsound to something different than the 2dn and 4th beats when the song wont let you hitsound those.
There's a reason the song has those hitsounds on the 2nd and 4th beats. It's because it sounds good. It's a lot harder to find something that sounds nearly as good.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

ziin wrote:

I see no good reason we can't put hitsounds on sliderticks other than the fact that it's usually best left on the default. I hope the people opposed to slider tick hitsounds are at least the same amount opposed to storyboarding hitsounds.
Absolutely yes I am opposed to storyboarding hitsounds. They aren't even tied to the player's actions, so it's as if the game is playing itself!

If you were to use a spinner-bonus or a slidertick as a hitsound, it would be bad.

Another solution to the clapticks issue is to use a different clap than normal-hitclap.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku

MetalMario201 wrote:

Another solution to the clapticks issue is to use a different clap than normal-hitclap.
ffffffffffff I hate when mappers do that. :(
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I dont like slidertick hitsounds for the same reason you cant select a slider tick and choose (finish, clap, whistle).

And yes i also hate storyboarded hitsounds
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
NatsumeRin

MetalMario201 wrote:

Another solution to the clapticks issue is to use a different clap than normal-hitclap.
where's consistency fffffffff

downvote storyboard hitsounds for sure. never use.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
Consistency between the meanings of sounds in gameplay > consistency in a cosmetic rhythm pattern.
Powerdrone
464 posts
Joined October 2009
Powerdrone

Rolled wrote:

MOTHER FREAKING FIVE.
Krisom
osu! Alumni
2,867 posts
Joined April 2009
Krisom

ziin wrote:

There's a reason the song has those hitsounds on the 2nd and 4th beats. It's because it sounds good. It's a lot harder to find something that sounds nearly as good.
I also thought this when I was creating my firsts beatmaps. Later on it's much more intuitive to hitsound to other stuff in the music that are not the drums (2n and 4th claps are basically hitsounding to drums), unless of course you ARE following the drums
ShaggoN
689 posts
Joined September 2008
ShaggoN
I can't say simply if i like it. They are cool, when it fit's to the song. And of course, Slider Tick Rate need to be right.
Aoitenshi
711 posts
Joined February 2009
Aoitenshi
I don't really see any points on using this tick hitsounds.

3/5
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
You can avoid this and map the beatmap without a tick-hitsound. But if it sounds good, then it is okay. It's all about what we can hear. We doesn't have to click on the beats to make the sounds. 4
Ayesha Altugle
3,052 posts
Joined October 2011
Ayesha Altugle
The Same with this one
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/55769&m=0


Edit: 5/5
Last edited by Ayesha Altugle , edited 1 time in total.
Ylinestra44
547 posts
Joined December 2009
Ylinestra44
As long as it fits with the music, I absolutely love this technique. I used it on one of my maps (on all diffs, on the Hard hardly, because there aren't many ticks at all), and yeah, 5.
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