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I think with some effort and thinking, this could actually be a thing.
Since the ranking system currently is an absolute pain to go through without ''connections'', I think changes could be made, for example this.

I've given this some thought and came up with a few ideas which I'll list here to maybe make this idea sound more appealing.

For example being able to rank/qualify your own maps should be a privelege given to mappers that are known to have a good idea of how maps should be and have a lot of experience. The self qualified maps should of course have gotten a number of decent mods.
The BN/QAT (perhaps a new group) will check the maps after the mapper has decided it's ready and put it as qualified.
As for the newer mappers/less experienced mappers, the same idea applies, except instead of qualifying it themself, they would have to ask either BN/QAT or someone else who is able to qualify their own maps, to qualify theirs.
As motivation to make people mod, kudosu could play a role in this as well, for example consuming a certain amount of kudosu to qualify the map.
Perhaps there could also be a penalty system, that if you qualify something that's either unacceptable or unrankable, you eventually lose your privelege to do it yourself.

I honestly think this could work out and save a lot of time for the mappers trying to find BN's, and save a lot of time for BN's that don't have to mod every map they go through, and in general should be a much smoother and easier process.

I hope this will actually be considered and not just disregarded the moment the title has been read.

Leave ideas and stuff, I really hope this can be a thing.



Copy pasting additional ideas from posts below this
---------------------------------------------------------------
-Perhaps the idea of a map not getting past qualification before it has been checked by a certain amount of people could be a thing.
-A return of the point system can give some kind of structure to this idea without making it easily abusable.
-A cooldown between qualifying maps

Being able to nominate and qualify your own map (as a BN) would eliminate a lot of this circlejerking we see nowadays. Instead of BN's using up their hours checking other BN's maps, they can now spend more time checking other people's maps. Circlejerking will always exist of course, but this feature would be a good step towards not dissuading people from circlejerking, but rather, making that option unnecessary.

I don't get involved in the mapping scene, but I don't think this would be a good idea. As just a normal player, new maps come out every single day like clockwork, so there isn't a problem with output. Also these mappers that are getting their maps qualified have do so through experience. The reason new mappers have a hard time getting maps qualified and even ranked is probably because there maps are actually bad, they just can't tell because of their lack of experience.

All it take is time. Keep putting in work. Kepping posting on the forums, asking people to play and help you improve your mapping skills. You will get to there level

Sandy Hoey wrote:

I don't get involved in the mapping scene, but I don't think this would be a good idea. As just a normal player, new maps come out every single day like clockwork, so there isn't a problem with output. Also these mappers that are getting their maps qualified have do so through experience. The reason new mappers have a hard time getting maps qualified and even ranked is probably because there maps are actually bad, they just can't tell because of their lack of experience.

All it take is time. Keep putting in work. Kepping posting on the forums, asking people to play and help you improve your mapping skills. You will get to there level

It's not just new mappers that can't get their maps ranked, it's everyone, I'm not a new mapper myself, at all lol.
You also mention you're not in the mapping scene at all so I don't think you know how the whole process goes

Ah, in that case. How will me make sure that these mappers that have this privilage won't just start pumping out maps without taking the necessary time to perfect them. Should thee be a certain approval level that must be achieved in the qualified stage before they can rank it themselves? And what prevents them from completely skipping the qualified stage alltogether

Sandy Hoey wrote:

Ah, in that case. How will me make sure that these mappers that have this privilage won't just start pumping out maps without taking the necessary time to perfect them. Should thee be a certain approval level that must be achieved in the qualified stage before they can rank it themselves? And what prevents them from completely skipping the qualified stage alltogether

Like i mentioned in the OP, maps should have gotten an amount of decent mods before doing this, and of course by abusing this system there would be penalties. And what keeps them from skipping the qualified stage is that maps go into the qualified section for 7 days either way before it gets ranked.

seriously?

MrSergio wrote:

seriously?

Yes seriously, please no sarcastic comments on this, it's a serious question/suggestion and I want it to be considered, this could easily work out if done properly

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what the fuck



are you fucking retarded





the entire point of icons is to make sure you don't fuck the fuck up




skipping the process of having two people make sure you don't fuck the fuck up and having one person check just means that you've given yet another entire chance for fuckups to happen



even for experienced mappers fuckups happen and having 2-3 people who check for it is healthy for the game

Shiirn wrote:

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what the fuck



are you fucking retarded





the entire point of icons is to make sure you don't fuck the fuck up




skipping the process of having two people make sure you don't fuck the fuck up and having one person check just means that you've given yet another entire chance for fuckups to happen



even for experienced mappers fuckups happen and having 2-3 people who check for it is healthy for the game

What is your fucking problem? I seriously do not appreciate your comment at ALL. I supposed you did not read the full post so let me write it again, the map should have a number of DECENT mods before the person can qualify their map AND it WILL BE CHECKED while in the qualified section by said BN's. Thank you.

Yes.
Definitely.

I can't stress the fact enough that I see the same names in the qualified/ranked section all the time meanwhile I struggle to even get a BN looking at my maps.
Even Kyshiro who is a really good and solid mapper has to wait months for his map which is clearly already modded to death and polished..

What is the point of trying if most of the names I see in qual/ranked section are the same and the new ones almost never reappear because they got that one map ranked after 6 months.


I have personally been told by respected mappers (Kyshiro, Chaoslitz, Irreversible among others) that my maps are fine for ranking and I just need to find BN.
That is true, but finding that BN almost always ends with "I don't accept BN requests atm" or no time, but if that is the case, why can I see the SAME people looking over the popular maps and modding those maps? Why would a popular mapper need 10 BN's to check the maps quality in 1 week and other peoples map deserves 1 BN in 6 months?
It is really annoying and frankly makes me angry everytime I ask for a BN check, get "no time" answer but they go and MOD Notch Hell or a <insertpopularmapperhere> tv size / hype map.
That is just not how it should be.

This could be a solution, BN's having time to check others maps instead of actually trying to find BN's for themselves because now it's a big circlejerk.

And yes, I got some BN's faster than before. Why ? Because I got connections since then, that is the only reason, nothing else changed.

Yes please. This is a great idea. Another one could be assigning maps to certain BN's or something and they'd have a week or so to respond?
Yes BN's are people but if you apply to be a BN then you should do what you applied for, not entering the circlejerk.
My 2 cents.

That goes with the first part of my comment. It isn't like the average player isn't getting a good amount of new maps. There is no need to increase the amount of new ranked map. But I think this request is aimed at making mapping more inviting for newer mappers because otherwise they would just be overlooked in favor of these big names. Being overlooked is never a good feeling and will prush a lot of people away from mapping.

Shiirn wrote:

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what the fuck



are you fucking retarded





the entire point of icons is to make sure you don't fuck the fuck up




skipping the process of having two people make sure you don't fuck the fuck up and having one person check just means that you've given yet another entire chance for fuckups to happen



even for experienced mappers fuckups happen and having 2-3 people who check for it is healthy for the game

Shiirn, you just described the problem called circlejerk. 2 - 3 people who check same maps and icon/mod for each other.

Sandy Hoey wrote:

That goes with the first part of my comment. It isn't like the average player isn't getting a good amount of new maps. There is no need to increase the amount of new ranked map. But I think this request is aimed at making mapping more inviting for newer mappers because otherwise they would just be overlooked in favor of these big names. Being overlooked is never a good feeling and will prush a lot of people away from mapping.

You got the complete wrong idea here, it's for everyone, not just for the new mappers, and yes of course there are enough new maps, but also a LOT of REALLY GOOD maps that are simply not getting attention because everyone is busy or whatever, this is not a post just because I'm salty or whatever, it's meant to be a serious suggestion.

reducing the number of people who officially check a map from 2-3 to 1-2 will not "lower the circlejerk rate" or anything like that.

it'll just make it require even less effort for mappers who just want to rank their maps they think are fine. Yolo icons will still exist, but they could potentially be yoloing straight to qualification.


I'm sure everyone feels confident about their own capabilities and to an extent I believe I myself can make sure my map is of ranking quality before going to BNs.


But that doesn't mean I want to sneakily try to skip steps that ensure that I don't majorly fuck the fuck up.

being sarcastic or not, I doubt anyone would ever be able to be objective regarding their own results.
It's like being at school and giving out a test for yourself and later on giving yourself a mark: "well, I was close to this answer so let's put it among the correct ones." "Wait, I mispelled this, but I knew it".

I'm of the idea that the most trustworthy person is the one that doubts you, therefore checks by someone that actually tries to find errors in your map are far more accurate than the one that created it (without counting the fact it is always nice to improve your pattern repertory with new stuff you wouldn't think of otherwise).

That's my reasoning tho and I understand why you'd ask for that, but I'm not really up for it tbh.


EDIT: Shiirn, please

Shiirn wrote:

reducing the number of people who officially check a map from 2-3 to 1-2 will not "lower the circlejerk rate" or anything like that.

it'll just make it require even less effort for mappers who just want to rank their maps they think are fine. Yolo icons will still exist, but they could potentially be yoloing straight to qualification.


I'm sure everyone feels confident about their own capabilities and to an extent I believe I myself can make sure my map is of ranking quality before going to BNs.


But that doesn't mean I want to sneakily try to skip steps that ensure that I don't majorly fuck the fuck up.

Because people actually check your maps, they are controversial and anything out of the normal makes people check it naturally.
Me or other less experienced mappers. Dude you have no clue how annoying it is to ask a BN to check my map, get no for an answer because "no time" then find same dude modding and iconing 2 sets of another mapper I don't want to mention here.
I don't know, do I befriend every BN and circlejerk and meme with them for the sake of getting mods and BN's checking my map?
Annoying, that's what I can say.

If the problem is with BN, maybe instead of trying to find a wasy to get around them. Maybe we should find a way to fix the "corruption" of the system.

Selfqualification does not really make sense.
When I have the impression that my map is good enough for ranking I will push it to Pending.
Then people will hopefully mod it and purge it from the mistakes I made. And there's basically the clue:
As a mapper I can't selfmod my map to the degree of perfect rankability because I spent too much time on it.
A final checkup through other experienced mappers BNs is absolutely vital to ensure that maps have the best possible quality.
Why not experienced mappers? Because they don't have a responsibility compared to BNs.

I don't think the idea is entirely stupid but I think the farthest this idea can go is that an experienced mapper can somehow get the privilege to bubble his own map. This privilege should only exist one time per set so that the mapper has an incentive to make sure that ERRYTHING IS ABSOLUTELY PURRRFECT because if he fucks up and the bubble is popped/the map is DQd over stupid shit he has to find 2 BNs instead of one (or 3 instead of two in case of approval).
Would be most sensible to give that privilege to BNG/QAT and maybe 1337mappers as having many maps ranked isn't necessarily a sign that you're capable of thoroughly checking for each and any possible mistake that could happen.

Sandy Hoey wrote:

If the problem is with BN, maybe instead of trying to find a wasy to get around them. Maybe we should find a way to fix the "corruption" of the system.

just stop...

MrSergio wrote:

being sarcastic or not, I doubt anyone would ever be able to be objective regarding their own results.
It's like being at school and giving out a test for yourself and later on giving yourself a mark: "well, I was close to this answer so let's put it among the correct ones." "Wait, I mispelled this, but I knew it".

I'm of the idea that the most trustworthy person is the one that doubts you, therefore checks by someone that actually tries to find errors in your map are far more accurate than the one that created it (without counting the fact it is always nice to improve your pattern repertory with new stuff you shouldn't think of otherwise).

That's my reasoning tho and I understand why you'd ask for that, but I'm not really up for it tbh.


EDIT: Shiirn, please

Just qualifying your map with that attitude means there's bound to be errors, which means that the people who check the said self qualified maps will take it and and the person will eventually have his privelege taken away if it's being abused, but an opinion is an opinion and it's valid I suppose

Endaris wrote:

Selfqualification does not really make sense.
When I have the impression that my map is good enough for ranking I will push it to Pending.
Then people will hopefully mod it and purge it from the mistakes I made. And there's basically the clue:
As a mapper I can't selfmod my map to the degree of perfect rankability because I spent too much time on it.
A final checkup through other experienced mappers BNs is absolutely vital to ensure that maps have the best possible quality.
Why not experienced mappers? Because they don't have a responsibility compared to BNs.

I don't think the idea is entirely stupid but I think the farthest this idea can go is that an experienced mapper can somehow get the privilege to bubble his own map. This privilege should only exist one time per set so that the mapper has an incentive to make sure that ERRYTHING IS ABSOLUTELY PURRRFECT because if he fucks up and the bubble is popped/the map is DQd over stupid shit he has to find 2 BNs instead of one (or 3 instead of two in case of approval).
Would be most sensible to give that privilege to BNG/QAT and maybe 1337mappers as having many maps ranked isn't necessarily a sign that you're capable of thoroughly checking for each and any possible mistake that could happen.

The BN will still be a part of it and check the maps once qualified, the less good mappers will not have the privelege as stated in the OP, of course it would need a lot of tweaking and thinking, and I agree that BN's are vital to ensure quality, which is why they're still a part of it

Sandy Hoey wrote:

If the problem is with BN, maybe instead of trying to find a wasy to get around them. Maybe we should find a way to fix the "corruption" of the system.

Corruption can't really be resolved.
I don't know, being BN isn't anything that requires much from u nowadays.. it's mostly a benefit.
I thought it's mostly like a job kinda that you apply for, atleast that's how I would take it if I applied.
So "I am not accepting BN requests atm". WTF is that answer even, you are BN, lol it's kind of something you applied for right.
Yes I could understand it once or twice but that's mostly what you get.

I don't know.. controversy and popularity wins and gets more than it should and takes time from BNs.

The thing is, this is proposing a solution to a problem that is barely even tangentially tied to the proposed system. Giving BNs more time by requiring less circlejerk time will not lead them to modding more newbie maps.

EDIT: To extrapolate on this, "people will always gravitate towards the easiest route". If the system is weighted towards requiring a BN to mod like 10-15 maps to give their own map an icon, they'd probably just circlejerk the normal way. If it was like 5, it'd be all they did. There's no good number or way to nail down the concept to make it work in a balanced way.

The problem with BNs simply going "no time" or giving away no information or anything is due to 90% of the community falling directly on a small number of people, expecting them to answer all questions and concerns regarding beatmapping in general. It's insane. The MAT and BAT system at least provided a hierarchy where people would go to MATs for newbie tips and go to BATs for tips to refine their form. MATs could direct more complex questions to the BAT, and the BAT could offload newbie questions they've already answered so many times they regret not making a FAQ to copy+paste from.

We need more experience and more structure than just "BNs do everything, QATs sometimes enforce things". It's a really shitty dichotomy of purpose.


Mappers potentially ranking their own maps by spending their time helping others is a good theoretical idea on its own, but it is irrelevant to the problem it is trying to fix, and would require people to enforce said rules and consistently create them. That won't happen.

The BN will still be a part of it and check the maps once qualified, the less good mappers will not have the privelege as stated in the OP, of course it would need a lot of tweaking and thinking, and I agree that BN's are vital to ensure quality, which is why they're still a part of it

The issue is that through qualifying your map yourself you create a bad situation:
Either BNs check the map within the next qualification cycle or a map with faults get ranked.
A qualification as requested by you is nothing else but a biased "I have the right to get BNs to look at my map NOW". That's bullshit. It doesn't take any workload away from BNs, it's just putting the privileged people in an extremely advantageous position with no benefit.
Aka the only one who may benefit are people like you and it's only worse than before.

Shiirn wrote:

The thing is, this is proposing a solution to a problem that is barely even tangentially tied to the proposed system. Giving BNs more time by requiring less circlejerk time will not lead them to modding more newbie maps.

EDIT: To extrapolate on this, "people will always gravitate towards the easiest route". If the system is weighted towards requiring a BN to mod like 10-15 maps to give their own map an icon, they'd probably just circlejerk the normal way. If it was like 5, it'd be all they did. There's no good number or way to nail down the concept to make it work in a balanced way.

The problem with BNs simply going "no time" or giving away no information or anything is due to 90% of the community falling directly on a small number of people, expecting them to answer all questions and concerns regarding beatmapping in general. It's insane. The MAT and BAT system at least provided a hierarchy where people would go to MATs for newbie tips and go to BATs for tips to refine their form. MATs could direct more complex questions to the BAT, and the BAT could offload newbie questions they've already answered so many times they regret not making a FAQ to copy+paste from.

We need more experience and more structure than just "BNs do everything, QATs sometimes enforce things". It's a really shitty dichotomy of purpose.


Mappers potentially ranking their own maps by spending their time helping others is a good theoretical idea on its own, but it is irrelevant to the problem it is trying to fix, and would require people to enforce said rules and consistently create them. That won't happen.

Welp, we're all entitled to our own opinions

Revive the old BN points system and use a set number of points to icon your own map. That way BN's can't just icon all of their own maps, and they gain points by modding other maps (whether BN or regular mapper). Maybe set a 50% point reduction for modding BN maps, and set a 150% point gain for iconing mappers with 0 ranked maps.

I think a return of the point system can give some kind of structure to this idea without making it easily abusable.

Endaris wrote:

The BN will still be a part of it and check the maps once qualified, the less good mappers will not have the privelege as stated in the OP, of course it would need a lot of tweaking and thinking, and I agree that BN's are vital to ensure quality, which is why they're still a part of it

The issue is that through qualifying your map yourself you create a bad situation:
Either BNs check the map within the next qualification cycle or a map with faults get ranked.
A qualification as requested by you is nothing else but a biased "I have the right to get BNs to look at my map NOW". That's bullshit. It doesn't take any workload away from BNs, it's just putting the privileged people in an extremely advantageous position with no benefit.
Aka the only one who may benefit are people like you and it's only worse than before.

Not at all, you would need a certain amount of kudosu or at least a cooldown for qualifying your own maps so there won't be a million qualified maps at once, the team that checks the then qualified maps should be a lot bigger than what the BN team is right now, and perhaps the idea of a map not getting past qualification before it has been checked by a certain amount of people could be a thing.
As for newer mappers, it does benefit them since there will be a load more people that can help them push their map further, and in order to get their own maps qualified, the ''priveleged'' ones would have to mod because they'd need a certain amount of kudosu or something similar.

That is all incredibly vague with an extensive load of "should", "need" and all that stuff.
This idea is not concrete at all. You should base its functionality on what we have NOW, not which environment would be good to implement it into.

Endaris wrote:

That is all incredibly vague with an extensive load of "should", "need" and all that stuff.
This idea is not concrete at all. You should base its functionality on what we have NOW, not which environment would be good to implement it into.

Well I'm sorry I'm not a native English speaker and do not always know how to construct the sentences and might use the wrong words. It's an idea for a better working ranking system, nothing more, nothing less.
And since they're just ideas, of course they could be improved and added upon, and of course it's all a bit vague since it's not something that can be easily put together.

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:

Sandy Hoey wrote:

If the problem is with BN, maybe instead of trying to find a wasy to get around them. Maybe we should find a way to fix the "corruption" of the system.

Corruption can't really be resolved.
I don't know, being BN isn't anything that requires much from u nowadays.. it's mostly a benefit.
I thought it's mostly like a job kinda that you apply for, atleast that's how I would take it if I applied.
So "I am not accepting BN requests atm". WTF is that answer even, you are BN, lol it's kind of something you applied for right.
Yes I could understand it once or twice but that's mostly what you get.

I don't know.. controversy and popularity wins and gets more than it should and takes time from BNs.

Sorry that I'm posting something that is not completely related to thos topic, but...
What the hell are you even expecting from BNs? Do you even know how many requests they get daily? How many good mappers are out there? All I see here and ingame is how you rant over the BNG because they are not looking at your map that "should" be easy to qualify as Irre etc said. So what? Maybe do something to get them dude. Bur ranting over the BNG everywhere doesn't help you at all, the BNs mostly start hating you and ignoring you because you think they are your icon machines. They can solely decide what map they want to nominate and what maps they don't want to nominate. If they don't take requests because they are busy (yeah guess what, they have a real life and also want to enjoy other games) then let them do it ffs. They are not machiens who need to be online 24/7 and check maps.

But now to the topic:
The idea itself isn't bad at all, but how should be good mappers who know what they do be selected? By the amount of ranked maps? Voting them isn't fair for example as people who do a lot of hard maps (Monstrata, Fort and so on) have a ton of fanboys and would definitely vote for them. I'm not implying that they are bad mappers or anything, but in the end only mappers who really get famous (by mapping hard stuff) will be able to do that. And I'm sure we have a lot of mappers who prefer mapping lower diffs and can't do harder maps. They will definitely be forgotten, which is a flaw.

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:

Corruption can't really be resolved.
I don't know, being BN isn't anything that requires much from u nowadays.. it's mostly a benefit.
I thought it's mostly like a job kinda that you apply for, atleast that's how I would take it if I applied.
So "I am not accepting BN requests atm". WTF is that answer even, you are BN, lol it's kind of something you applied for right.
Yes I could understand it once or twice but that's mostly what you get.

I don't know.. controversy and popularity wins and gets more than it should and takes time from BNs.

Modders have to pass a really harsh test to join the BNG.
The fact it can become a benefit can be true, but considering their knowledge is a natural consequence.
It's not a job, but a voluntary work (the minimum requirement is 3-4 icons per month, but it's nothing imo if you consider you can do that in 1 day only if you spare a day just for it), so don't start saying "you can't deny" because it's an actual insult to BNs in my eyes.

Just saying...

Endaris wrote:

That is all incredibly vague with an extensive load of "should", "need" and all that stuff.
This idea is not concrete at all. You should base its functionality on what we have NOW, not which environment would be good to implement it into.

I was thinking the same. This is an idea, not a concept yet.
While it has good input there is no solidity on "how" to make it work properly. That's the main reason I'm against it, or rather, not supporting it.
But this section is for this: discussion on how to make things better, so let's see...

Stjpa wrote:

Sorry that I'm posting something that is not completely related to thos topic, but...
What the hell are you even expecting from BNs? Do you even know how many requests they get daily? How many good mappers are out there? All I see here and ingame is how you rant over the BNG because they are not looking at your map that "should" be easy to qualify as Irre etc said. So what? Maybe do something to get them dude. Bur ranting over the BNG everywhere doesn't help you at all, the BNs mostly start hating you and ignoring you because you think they are your icon machines. They can solely decide what map they want to nominate and what maps they don't want to nominate. If they don't take requests because they are busy (yeah guess what, they have a real life and also want to enjoy other games) then let them do it ffs. They are not machiens who need to be online 24/7 and check maps.

Yeah BNs have a life as well, and of course they don't 24/7 mod and play osu or whatever, but that really isn't the point here, we shouldn't attack BN's on this since it's out of their reach mostly as well, however they do have a small responsibility carrying that title. I do know how many requests they get and it can be overwhelming, I've been one myself.

Endaris wrote:

That is all incredibly vague with an extensive load of "should", "need" and all that stuff.
This idea is not concrete at all. You should base its functionality on what we have NOW, not which environment would be good to implement it into.

MrSergio wrote:

I was thinking the same. This is an idea, not a concept yet.
While it has good input there is no solidity on "how" to make it work properly. That's the main reason I'm against it, or rather, not supporting it.
But this section is for this: discussion on how to make things better, so let's see...

Instead of not agreeing and being against this just because it doesn't have a solid plan yet, how about coming up with better ideas on how to improve this.

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:

If the problem is with BN, maybe instead of trying to find a wasy to get around them. Maybe we should find a way to fix the "corruption" of the system.

Corruption can't really be resolved.
I don't know, being BN isn't anything that requires much from u nowadays.. it's mostly a benefit.
I thought it's mostly like a job kinda that you apply for, atleast that's how I would take it if I applied.
So "I am not accepting BN requests atm". WTF is that answer even, you are BN, lol it's kind of something you applied for right.
Yes I could understand it once or twice but that's mostly what you get.

I don't know.. controversy and popularity wins and gets more than it should and takes time from BNs.

Whoeveritwas wrote:

Sorry that I'm posting something that is not completely related to thos topic, but...
What the hell are you even expecting from BNs? Do you even know how many requests they get daily? I can imagineHow many good mappers are out there?Oh yes I do know. All I see here and ingame is how you rant over the BNG because they are not looking at your map that "should" be easy to qualify as Irre etc said. So what?So what? So that I am sick of same mappers getting BN checks all the time and less interesting maps or less popular mappers almost do not. Maybe do something to get them dude. DDo you seriously think I am not doing anything just talking about it? If you thought I don't do anything you must be an idiot.Bur ranting over the BNG everywhere doesn't help you at all, the BNs mostly start hating you and ignoring you because you think they are your icon machines.They are not icon machines, and I am always nice to them I am speaking in general, not only my case, also ranting helps, if no1 says anything what will change? They can solely decide what map they want to nominate and what maps they don't want to nominate.Of course, but doesn't everyone deserve same amount of BN attention? Because I think I've seen 4 or 5 new Sotarks maps during the time I've been trying to get a BN to look at my map and finally got it. Kyshiro didn't get any on his. Even thought we asked a lot of people If they don't take requests because they are busy (yeah guess what, they have a real life and also want to enjoy other games) then let them do it ffs. Ah yea of course they have a real life, but hmm.. so you tell me every BN I asked was busy for more than a month? Hard to believe especially considering some of them went straight to modding another popular map or mappers set, and yes, it's voluntary but it's the fucking job they APPLY for. You don't fucking apply for something you will do voluntarily and then don't really do it, do you? They are not machiens who need to be online 24/7 and check maps.Of course they are not machines and I don't expect that, but I expect a BN to check my map thoroughly once a month atleast because frankly, as I mentioned before, seeing a mapper getting 4-5 ranked sets during the time I am LOOKING FOR A BN TO CHECK MY MAP is just ridiculous, so sorry, I don't take the "I don't have time" excuse anymore, I did before.

MrSergio wrote:

WORSTPOLACKEU wrote:

Corruption can't really be resolved.
I don't know, being BN isn't anything that requires much from u nowadays.. it's mostly a benefit.
I thought it's mostly like a job kinda that you apply for, atleast that's how I would take it if I applied.
So "I am not accepting BN requests atm". WTF is that answer even, you are BN, lol it's kind of something you applied for right.
Yes I could understand it once or twice but that's mostly what you get.

I don't know.. controversy and popularity wins and gets more than it should and takes time from BNs.

Modders have to pass a really harsh test to join the BNG.
The fact it can become a benefit can be true, but considering their knowledge is a natural consequence.
It's not a job, but a voluntary work (the minimum requirement is 3-4 icons per month, but it's nothing imo if you consider you can do that in 1 day only if you spare a day just for it), so don't start saying "you can't deny" because it's an actual insult to BNs in my eyes.

Just saying...

I am not saying you can't deny. I am saying they can't excuse themselves with not having time or being busy but modding 50 other maps because they are hype or popular mapper made it and asked them for a check so they instantly go for it.
That's my problem. And I am not attacking on BNs because yes, many do hell of a job and actually helped me a lot and tried a lot but for the most part my experience with them is limited to "I am busy modding other popular maps".

Sandy Hoey wrote:

If the problem is with BN, maybe instead of trying to find a wasy to get around them. Maybe we should find a way to fix the "corruption" of the system.

>M4M ; if your map is good, you will get a mod + an icon ; also, when your map is bubbled, you really have a high chance to get a random mod from a BN.
I still can't get how some new mapper think it's too "hard to get BN's mod ; did they know what was MAT/BAT ?

I don't really like the idea of "qualifying your own maps".
But well ; here's a idea :

for "newer mappers/less experienced mappers" : to be sure the map is ok -> the map MUST have a bubble. There's still the "BN issue" ; but 1 BN is easier to find than 2 BNs.

Kyshiro wrote:

Instead of not agreeing and being against this just because it doesn't have a solid plan yet, how about coming up with better ideas on how to improve this.

I do remember I left my opinion in the thread already and it was supported by a reasoning behind it, that's why.

I dislike the idea of depending on people that don't really about you or at least your map, but the diy idea is not good either. You need other people to tell you whether the map is good or not because without that you are only subject to what you think and what you think is always going to be in your favor regardless of what others think. The idea of qualifying your own map is a double edged sword. It solves one problem in crates another. What will you do when a ton of newbies decide to rank their shitmap? I expect >100 per day when the feature first comes into effect, and then BN and QAT will be overloaded with the mess of things.

I think forcing the BN to remove player preference/bias is a better way to go. In short, this would require a system which keeps track of which players got checked by which BN and validate a check (bubble) if the player hasn't been checked by the same BN too often. This would force BN to check more players they haven't checked before and check players less they have checked before. So new mappers can get more of a chance while older mappers would need to consider twice and be confident in their mapping before asking for BN check. Also allow a 3 week period or so since dq to be checked be same BN since otherwise it can be really unfair.

Don't count this ever will be a thing. This already has been suggested by some BNs and already denied by Loctav. And I don't think this would work well.

@abraker: read the OP again

--------------
I'm getting sick and tired of people commenting without reading and understanding the original post. Please read people.
It's not my fault you fail to see the general idea behind it, sure you can have your own opinion on it but at least I am suggesting things that could drastically improve the ranking system. Whether it's already suggested or not, it doesn't hurt to share ideas on how to make this a viable option.
All I'm asking is that people take this into consideration before completely talking this into the ground.
And with the right rules and guidelines, I'm positive this can work.

Heck I'd even be willing to help out on putting work into creating a better and smoother ranking system

support this
cuz i have hard time to ranking my maps or even contact a BN.
(they always priority their friends first)

This'd be so great
Why not give the mapper the chance to do so, after the map at least reaches 50 (or maybe 30) SP, purely from modding (so not counting the stars)
This way it ensures the map to be modded at least 25 (or 15) times (though that means the map must be multiple years old, due to the 2-kd-countdown) to have a decent quality

limit the amount of ranked maps a mapper can put our and force BNs to look at maps of other people if they want to stay active. Only one ranked map every 40 days per mapper.Requiring the BNs to bubble different mappers could work as well, maybe only the same mapper 2 times a year?

Monstrata and the other frequently featured folks are all good mappers, but they don't deserve to get their maps ranked while similarly talented and hard-working mappers get ignored, even though their maps are excellent too. This is the crux of the problem.

Abraker is on the right track here. Removing "player bias" (aka favoritism) is the way to go. Didn't even see you had the same idea, hah.

Railey2 wrote:

limit the amount of ranked maps a mapper can put our and force BNs to look at maps of other people if they want to stay active. Only one ranked map every 40 days per mapper.Requiring the BNs to bubble different mappers could work as well, maybe only the same mapper 2 times a year?

Monstrata and the other frequently featured folks are all good mappers, but they don't deserve to get their maps ranked while similarly talented and hard-working mappers get ignored, even though their maps are excellent too. This is the crux of the problem.

Abraker is on the right track here. Removing "player bias" (aka favoritism) is the way to go. Didn't even see you had the same idea, hah.

I don't think you are a mapper so I'm clueless as to why you care so much, hah

Judging by the comments and the contents of them most people don't read the first post and just follow whatever the last person said based on the title alone. Fucking read. I'm genuinely annoyed by this.

Kyshiro wrote:

Railey2 wrote:

limit the amount of ranked maps a mapper can put our and force BNs to look at maps of other people if they want to stay active. Only one ranked map every 40 days per mapper.Requiring the BNs to bubble different mappers could work as well, maybe only the same mapper 2 times a year?

Monstrata and the other frequently featured folks are all good mappers, but they don't deserve to get their maps ranked while similarly talented and hard-working mappers get ignored, even though their maps are excellent too. This is the crux of the problem.

Abraker is on the right track here. Removing "player bias" (aka favoritism) is the way to go. Didn't even see you had the same idea, hah.

I don't think you are a mapper so I'm clueless as to why you care so much, hah

Judging by the comments and the contents of them most people don't read the first post and just follow whatever the last person said based on the title alone. Fucking read. I'm genuinely annoyed by this.

As your opening statement, you said that you propose your idea as a response to the widespread favoritism among BNs, aka it being hard to get anything done without connections.

The suggestion I made addresses this problem, I did not comment on your idea at all in my post. I think your idea is decent, and could complement my/abrakers idea well, if you put a limit on it. Say one self-qualified map a month for mappers who truly earned the privilege to qualify their own maps. Ranking own maps is going too far imo. Together, these two mechanisms could be quite effective.



It doesn't matter who I am, no? I play this game and I care about it, that is all you need to know about me in this context. I don't need to be a mapper to understand the complications of the ranking-process.

Railey2 wrote:

As your opening statement, you said that you propose your idea as a response to the widespread favoritism among BNs, aka it being hard to get anything done without connections.

The suggestion I made addresses this problem, I did not comment on your idea at all in my post. I think your idea is decent, and could complement my/abrakers idea well, if you put a limit on it. Say one self-qualified map a month for mappers who truly earned the privilege to qualify their own maps. Ranking own maps is going too far imo. Together, these two mechanisms could be quite effective.



It doesn't matter who I am, no? I play this game and I care about it, that is all you need to know about me in this context. I don't need to be a mapper to understand the complications of the ranking-process.

If you would have read it, which you clearly haven't, you would have seen that I've thought about limits and wrote that down. It's not going too far you just fail to see the idea behind it, and quite honestly I'm done writing the same comment over and over so I won't.
And yes. To fully understand the ranking process you have to go through it yourself.

Kyshiro wrote:

If you would have read it, which you clearly haven't, you would have seen that I've thought about limits and wrote that down. It's not going too far you just fail to see the idea behind it, and quite honestly I'm done writing the same comment over and over so I won't.
And yes. To fully understand the ranking process you have to go through it yourself.

I mean that people in general shouldn't be allowed to rank more than one map every 40 days (or longer), not just the the mappers that earned the privilege to qualify their own maps.

idk what you're on about, I already said that I approve of the idea if its regulated right :V
As to me not being able to understand, I disagree. It's quite simple.




There are two core problems:
1) favoritism

2) the workload on the BNs is too big, as there are too many mappers and too few BNs to take care of their requests, which makes it even harder for new mappers to get a foot in the door

At the same time, you can't just make the ranking process 100 times easier to lessen the workload, as this would threaten the quality of the beatmaps, which is the main concern of most people that oppose your idea (aka shiirn and co.)


You attempt to solve core problem 2 by redistributing a bit of the workload away from the BNs and to some of the mappers that you think are experienced enough to take a more leading role themselves.

My idea is similar, as it would also address core problem 2 (and 1). It takes a bit of work off the BNs (and you can't favor someone unfairly if you aren't allowed to look at his stuff because you can't rank it anyways due to the 40 days rule).



The problems of the ranking process aren't too hard to understand. It's not that complicated of a system. I don't think that I need to experience frustration with not being able to get my maps ranked to "really understand" how it works.


I said I wouldn't allow them to RANK their map right off the bat. However, I think qualifying their own map is something they should be allowed to do if they truly showed that they are able to tell quality and shit apart.

Kyshiro wrote:

And yes. To fully understand the ranking process you have too through it yourself.

So I can't look at how long it took to rank X map and imagine how much dick sucking it required?

obviously people are incapable of analyzing things from an outside-view. They also can't relate to things like rising frustration as your efforts keep getting ignored, unless they experienced it in THIS ONE SPECIFIC SCENARIO. Impossible.

God damn you guys give me cancer with your smartass comments, I'm done here, sorry for trying to help make a better game.

Enjoy sitting back and watching while nothing happens then.

As per Kyshiro's requests.