tbh this map is nothing new, you could argue it's overdone (because most of 8* maps are) but from a quick look on the top difficulty, it just uses the common techniques that nowadays ranked maps do also use

so basically... if the jumps were not full screen, no one would be discussing anything here.

there are some points that (in my opinion) should be discussed tho

[Raikozen's Everlasting Memory]

1. 03:52:143 - this kind of jumpy pattern is completely overdone and doesn't follow the music properly, it's true that similar instances in the music (such as 01:44:643 - 02:43:572 - ) were indeed filled with 1/2 beats. this is not the case. let me go one step ahead and say that following two different things at the same time (voice, and drums, for this case) is usually not a great idea because they aren't the same intensity so i think you should rather use some sliders to catch the rhythm in a more correct way

also 00:48:527 -


02:05:000 -

The end beat on 00:48:527 doesn't actually end somewhere since the noise is drained/faded. With the way Extreme spaces it is fair to the 1/6. Raikozen spaced it out more and used 1/4 since he didn't want to use 1/6 with his idea. There are a couple of drained sounds elsewhere in the song like right after the 2nd kiai but that can be interpreted however you'd like since there are many audibly drained beats scattered across the entirety of the song.

As far as the ending kiai goes, I personally think two things: the ARIGATŌ is MUCH stronger lyric-wise and voice-wise. (Although this is not Araki's version you can see why he would emphasize that part too, cuz the translated lyrics are indeed much stronger). Secondly, it fairs for a bit more consistency with the former kiais that which had utilized 1/2s. That plus its emphasizing vocal is what makes me think 1/2s are acceptable. Consistency and strength in voice.

Its time...

why did u use the wrong snow drive for this lol araki's is so much better
edit i know its in the description now but still it fits the map way better

FailureAtOsu wrote:

why did u use the wrong snow drive for this lol araki's is so much better
edit i know its in the description now but still it fits the map way better

01.23 version is more popular.

Gratzz

First map with star rating higher in 2016 :3

KittyAdventure wrote:

Gratzz

First map with star rating higher in 2016 :3

What about Mazzerin's 9.2*

YESSSSS

AyanokoRin wrote:

KittyAdventure wrote:

Gratzz

First map with star rating higher in 2016 :3

What about Mazzerin's 9.2*

Just pretend it doesn't exist

I hope someone fc it when ranked

dat boi waffle wrote:

I hope someone fc it when ranked

ThePooN, 4 days after ranking, calling it right now

I'm guessing a choke 2nd day

Congratulations for qualifying this mapset! \w/

However, since I'm as happy to be part of the mapset, I'd like to mention that the spread from the Normal to the Hard isn't that linear as Ranking Criteria states.

Specially, and due to the burst of 1/2 objects that the Hard manages, isn't really pleasant to the players who want to switch to play this difficulty, knowing that the Normal is merely mapped with long sliders and occasional circles among the map. Not to mention that the amount of objects in the hard surpass by almost three times the amount of objects than the normal uses. Hence, the spread from these two difficulties is somewhat bigger than the ones we say on the maps which are being qualified.

This is my concern and I highly doubt the spread is fine as it is currently. The fact that the jumps and overall object-placement over the Hard difficulty can lead to an unbalanced spread from my point of view.

There's no good way to transition from Normal to Hard at this BPM while keeping the SR or level of play linearly low together. The best I can do is keep the mechanics of the two diffs close which I think Hard did - Comprised mostly of 1/1s and 1/2s while still following DS for the most part. Trying to do that with Normal would boost the SR past 2.00* so the rhythm has to be undermapped a bit more so it doesn't exceed, thus, making the jump to Hard feel like it's that much bigger when the gameplay is still more/less the same, just that it has more object count. Lowering the hard down somehow would make the jump to Insane feel worse since the way Insane plays is similar to Hard (comprised mostly of 1/2s and less 1/1s) but with no DS restriction and a couple of 5 note streams. Usually with high BPM or intense songs like this, the lower difficulties (especially Hards) will have a subjective viability since Hard is usually a gray area kind of difficulty. From the playtests I've gathered with very low ranked users on those difficulties the jump isn't as big as it seems.

AyanokoRin wrote:

KittyAdventure wrote:

Gratzz

First map with star rating higher in 2016 :3

What about Mazzerin's 9.2*

It's about ranked not all mapset in 2016 xD

KittyAdventure wrote:

It's about ranked not all mapset in 2016 xD

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/480651 just to clean ur eyes its ranked lolz

grats kryotz!!

Kroytz wrote:

There's no good way to transition from Normal to Hard at this BPM while keeping the SR or level of play linearly low together. The best I can do is keep the mechanics of the two diffs close which I think Hard did - Comprised mostly of 1/1s and 1/2s while still following DS for the most part. Trying to do that with Normal would boost the SR past 2.00* so the rhythm has to be undermapped a bit more so it doesn't exceed, thus, making the jump to Hard feel like it's that much bigger when the gameplay is still more/less the same, just that it has more object count. Lowering the hard down somehow would make the jump to Insane feel worse since the way Insane plays is similar to Hard (comprised mostly of 1/2s and less 1/1s) but with no DS restriction and a couple of 5 note streams. Usually with high BPM or intense songs like this, the lower difficulties (especially Hards) will have a subjective viability since Hard is usually a gray area kind of difficulty. From the playtests I've gathered with very low ranked users on those difficulties the jump isn't as big as it seems.

To make a balanced map you should sacrifice an expert diff and ask that mapper to make an easy so you can have a real normal diff tho.. Normal - hard gap is really bad atm..

I'm waiting for ranked, nice map!:3

If necessary, feel free to contact me to map a lower diff, but I don't think it's too big of a problem

Kroytz wrote:

The end beat on 00:48:527 doesn't actually end somewhere since the noise is drained/faded. With the way Extreme spaces it is fair to the 1/6. Raikozen spaced it out more and used 1/4 since he didn't want to use 1/6 with his idea. There are a couple of drained sounds elsewhere in the song like right after the 2nd kiai but that can be interpreted however you'd like since there are many audibly drained beats scattered across the entirety of the song.

tbh that doesn't make sense, time signature is only one in the music so it's either simple or compound timing. if that was the case, you should've used 1/8 instead of 1/6 because that would've be the correct snapping (i still think it's compound, though)

Kroytz wrote:

As far as the ending kiai goes, I personally think two things: the ARIGATŌ is MUCH stronger lyric-wise and voice-wise. (Although this is not Araki's version you can see why he would emphasize that part too, cuz the translated lyrics are indeed much stronger). Secondly, it fairs for a bit more consistency with the former kiais that which had utilized 1/2s. That plus its emphasizing vocal is what makes me think 1/2s are acceptable. Consistency and strength in voice.

the final chorus atmosphere is indeed stronger than the rest of the map, but i personally think that it doesn't allow you to map another completely different song, because as i said, the last phrase isn't filled with 1/2 beats. you could even use full screen circle to slider jumps and it would work just fine.
i think this is just a problem of overall design, in my honest opinion, raikozen failed to distinguish the intensities from the 3 kiais, this wouldn't have happened if the first two were more balanced spacing-wise.

anyways snapping on pkk's and BHR's diff is still wrong around this 02:05:000 - section

Did no one mention the huge overmaps in the two top diffs at 00:36:072 - ?

Maakkeli wrote:

Did no one mention the huge overmaps in the two top diffs at 00:36:072 - ?

like for real lol

01:09:688 (1,2,3,4,5) - not as huge but overmapped aswell

Well, since there's already a lot of discussion, i'll just mention this:

00:36:072 - Regarding the overmaps here, ehh, i think they're fine. They sound close enough to 1/4 even tho it might be more of an atmospheric sound than clear 1/4's. But anyways, my concern is more that on Raikozen's diff, the rhythm changes don't correspond to the song. Drum beats like 00:37:545 - 00:38:884 - 00:39:286 (1,2,3,4) - Like, the rhythm Raikozen picked just doesn't match the song's rhythm, and the changes between streams, 1/4 repeats, and kicksliders don't create any internal rhythm. (What I mean by internal rhythm is say: 00:36:072 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - If you replicated that by beginning another 16 note stream on 00:38:215 - and then switched to 1/4 repeats on 00:39:286 - , then even though it doesn't follow the song's rhythm closely, it still creates its own internal rhythm that is mostly accurate. Then I could classify it as a mapper's creative interpretation of rhythm. (It could still not make sense though, but at least there's better justification then.))

Maakkeli wrote:

Did no one mention the huge overmaps in the two top diffs at 00:36:072 - ?

There is literally a constant 1/4 synth..... It's a drained synth cuz Omoi is a great composer.

Kagetsu wrote:

tbh that doesn't make sense, time signature is only one in the music so it's either simple or compound timing. if that was the case, you should've used 1/8 instead of 1/6 because that would've be the correct snapping (i still think it's compound, though)

Omoi is a great composer. But really, when the end beats have no ending, it's not wrong for the mapper to choose to interpret it in a way that makes sense to their mapping - not to compare to how someone else interprets in their version.
and personally I think Raikozen did well in distinguishing intensities in his 3 kiais. One idea I liked a lot from him were the drum rolls before the NAITE NANKAs that start off low and increasingly become spaced more. Same goes with the jump patterns - mostly made of acute angles but the angles become more far apart as that ending comes about.

Also, the snapping is more than correct on pk's diff since it is 1/3rd rhythm (all the diffs use that). BHR used a 1/1 slider to cover up the 1/3 beats as to not add any confusion by trying to introduce 1/3s for Normal difficulty, especially since their diff is comprised of 1/1s and 1/2s beats.

Personally, normal 0.8 sv VS hard 1.4 sv isnt cool for unexpert player, especially high bpm.

Feb wrote:

01:09:688 (1,2,3,4,5) - not as huge but overmapped aswell

im building emphasis for 01:10:090 (1) - by matching the previous drumroll just with higher spacing on the offbeats

there's literally a louder synth on the red tick


@monstrata: when it comes to structural rhythm it's just a structural thing (could sound stupid but idk how to say it in other way)

the thing with it is that it objectifies the music with AABB or ABAB pattern, and the part you mention follows none of these, thus, i don't follow it

i acknowledge your point and i see the thinking process behind it, but i just think that it'll be better off if it stays the way it is

General
[]

1. 03:59:643 (1) - reduce the volume at the slider ticks
2. The gap between normal and hard diff is really huge, Normal diff uses 1/1 rhythm (with long sliders) vs Hard that uses a constant 1/2 rhythm, jump patterns like 00:49:331 (2,3,4,5) - in hard make the spread looks worst.
   You have 5 expert diffs, so I don't understand why you didn't add an easy diff so you can map a proper normal diff.. anyways I believe you can still add some 1/2 transitions at the normal diff without reaching the 2.0 star ranting (I already tested is posible), basically slider to slider transitions.

BHR's Normal
[]

1. 02:06:072 (2,1) - why the jump? you didn't it at other similar sections, so is super random and can be a bit confused for normal diff players, since is not consistent.
2. 03:41:429 (2,3) - a tiny spacing error, but if this get DQ worth fixing, also the blanket between 03:41:965 (3,1) - can be improved a bit.
3. 03:51:072 (2,1) - spacing error
4. 01:31:920 (1,1) - the double spinner is a bit hard to play for newbies... this is usually fine, but the second spinner is really short and can be really confused for anyone not that experienced with the game, and then after the double spinner there comes at stack 01:35:804 (1,2) -
5. 02:20:000 (1) - touching the HP bar, you have really much space to place objects, that's why I don't see the reason to place it overlapping the HP bar.
6. 03:22:143 (1,1) - same as 01:31:920 (1,1) -
7. 03:40:090 (4,1) - even if they are different color this will be really confused to play for newbies, (I saw a map being DQ for the same reason, this is not something that you would use in a normal diff, specially when you have it as the easier diff in the set

Hard
[]

1. 03:25:625 (6) - the low sv is a bit surprising for a hard diff, I'd recommend adding a NC on it, also it will be consistent with 03:59:643 (1) -

Individually hard and normal diff are nice, but as a set the gap between them is real big, your hard is too dense and the normal diff don't even introduce a 1/2 transition, I'd add some 1/2s at normal, since you still don't reach the 2.0 stars and make the hard diff a bit less dense, or mapping an easy and making the normal diff harder

Rumi's Expert
[]

1. 00:09:837 (2) - 20% volume is really hard to hear, try 35% instead.
2. 00:25:090 (4) - this should be mapped as 2 circles to fit the music better, the 1/2 spam fit the before part, but no this one.
3. 00:33:661 (4) - ^
4. 00:48:259 (1,2) - 1.0 spacing like you did at 00:46:116 (3,4) -
5. 01:14:108 (4) - a NC would be a nice idea
6. 03:20:000 (1,2,3) - the stack and the overlap make this really hard to read, 03:20:402 (2,3) - what's the head and what's the tail, i'd do a manual stack in 03:20:402 (2,3) - to avoid it.
7. 03:41:429 (4) - missing NC

moph's Expert
[]

1. 00:33:661 (4,5) - 4 is a strong beat and you still used a super tiny spacing 00:33:393 (3,4) - , 5 is a weak beat and u used a jump, I really fail to understand why, ctrl g 4 and 5?
2. 01:16:518 (4,5) - 01:51:608 (3,4) - same as above, there are others I think
3. 02:21:072 (5) - missing NC

NiNo's Expert
[]

1. 00:06:087 (1) - remove the NC, it doesn't make much sense at the slow part, is better to keep the sayonara together 00:05:551 (1,1,2) -
2. 01:35:268 (2,3) - this sounds really bad, 3 basically ruin the beats 01:35:670 (4,5) - , just do a 1/1 slider in 01:35:268 (2,3) - , but tbh I'd not map those beats in the first place, since 01:35:268 (2) - is basically mapped to nothing.
3. 03:22:143 (1,2) - this looks like 1/4 jump atm, definitely needs more spacing.
4. 03:24:286 (1,1) - same as above

Raikozen's Everlasting Memory
[]

1. basically I have the smae concerns as the other people here, I think you should think more about their concerns instead of insta deny, monstrata's post makes a lot of sense, I was also wondering.
   
   Anyways not going to mod this diff, since I totally disagree with the overdone jumps (as any 8 stars diff), but they are over and over, so don't worth posting them.

Hope you guys take the time to reply to this and take suggestions not just deny all to avoid a dq. If you have any questions send me a in game/forum pm

Some people should stick to graveyard mapping :d Not every map needs a 12 star diff

might as well add something rather subjective to consider in case this gets disqualified (which seems like it will most likely happen, if not for other things most likely for n-h having such a huge gap):

extreme/nino:
01:35:268 (2,3) - putting objects here really takes away from the atmosphere of the song :c yeah there is something very quiet/barely audible in the song but it heavily lowers the impact from the drums coming back on 01:35:670 - 01:35:804 -
sometimes not mapping things can have a much greater effect, they way moph and pkk handled it seemed way nicer


also a thing that bothered me when playing moph's diff: the linear speedup thing on 00:33:393 (3,4,5) - seemed completely out of place considering your other patterns here. it still plays fine but just doesn't feel very fitting.

wanted to post this some hours ago but seems like I never pressed submit, just noticed I still had the tab open lol

as people suggested, might wanna do something about spread. if you can't have a solid spread while normal is the lowest diff, maybe normal shouldn't be the lowest diff. buffing normal through 1/2sliderend transitions is possible if it's too much of a bother to adjust things the ways other people suggested

the guys above me are pointing out stuff that seems worth looking into as well

i also dont really understand raikozen's response to monstrata. from what im interpreting, he's using that rhythm because it's how songs are usually structured, and even though the song is structured differently here, he's doing it anyway because it's what music would usually do? im so confused help

alsoooo someone mentioned on the last page that rhythm in the arigatou part was weird in the top diffs, which i can agree with. the response to it was "it's more lyrically intense than previous kiais" and "it's consistent with the other kiais," which seems kind of contradictory. if it's musically different, it should be mapped differently (so in this case, by prioritizing the lyrically intense aritgatous instead of every 1/2 beat). being consistent with something that's musically inconsistent doesn't seem right

FeelsBadMan

What I'm saying is that by adding in sliders to the ARIGATŌ part is lowering its intensity unless you space it out or do some finicky stuff with it, which would in turn make it inconsistent with how the previous kiais dealt with the vocals in that area. And how does it being more lyrically more intense and trying to be consistent become contradictory? By being consistent it follows the 1/2 jumps, by increasing intensity the angles and spacing is higher. That's all it is.

And I don't know if any of you bothered to actually look through Natsu's mods, but you'd find they are very moot points, I was going to make a response but I was preoccupied for the mean time. I'll answer your mod Natsu (and Lasse) but I can't see much, if at all any suggestion being changed. This seemed like a very shallow "mod" to convince me that these are DQ-able points.

We had a talk about spread not many months ago pishi, discussing about what matters is how they play mechanically to one another. Whether different rhythms are introduced (i.e. 1/1s vs 1/2s) or variance in the style of mapping. Both these diffs follow a clean DS style so there is a clean transition between the two. I've had many 6 digit players go through the Hard difficulties because this set had been in NUMEROUS discussions for the past 2 months. During that time I've also had NUMEROUS playtests and response from players. The only thing that looks scary about the transition from Normal to Hard would be its density but that comes naturally when you apply a 1/2 rhythm with high bpm.

To be honest this was a very premature DQ. If you wanted to ruin Christmas then congratulations you succeeded. I'll wait to get this going again for New Years. There's no need for further discussion.

spread is really bad tho, I'll suggest a few things to improve it later, after you guys reply to my mod

christmas is LITERALLY ruined, pack away the trees and burn the presents boys

nooo

Natsu, si no podes expresar lo que queres decir en Ingles, usa Español. Convenzame en un post de como la transicion de: Normal's 1/1 ritmo, Hard's 1/1 y 1/2 ritmo, y Insane's 1/1, 1/2, y 1/4 ritmo te parece ser un "really bad spread". Ni entiendo lo que estas intentando decir y para ser franco, simplemente no es. Anda, trata de convencerme. Es DQ'd, aqui esta tu oportunidad mijo

my christmas is ruined christmas only comes once and a year and its ruined now ;--;

hope it gets ranked asap till years end senpai

lo

Raikozen's everlasting memories
00:16:518 (4,1) - fix blanket
00:17:858 (1,1) - ^
00:40:759 (2,3) - this looks very weird

There are plenty of incorrect blankets, while there are also plenty of correct, i can't find the purpose on that. Maybe recheck and fix blankets?