Kudosu's are as you know, used to give Star Priority to a map. It supposedly does something for your map, but does it really? I beg to differ. The only reason why you need SP is for ranking, which requires 12, as I remember, for something to be ranked. You could also spend them on other maps, but that doesn't gurantee rank or really anything, it's really only sort of useful for your own maps. But, you don't need kudosu to get SP. Mods will also give SP to your map, so getting 12 mods is enough to get a rank without using 1 kudo. This is quite dumb I would say, and I have a solution.

Instead of this system, we use something more community based. Kudosu's will have a use, don't delete them. A map will need 7 kudosu spent by the mapper, and also at least 7 mods that deserve KDs before it can be ranked. And also, don't allow some mods to have 2 KDs instead of 1, that's stupid. This way, to get your map ranked you need to mod 7 other maps. Anyone else agree?

I disagree with the 1-2 kudosu --> 1 kudosu, I believe it's good to encourage modding maps which people are soon to give up on

I do believe SP can need some changes. Having high SP doesn't neccessarily help you much (*Coughcough*Remember Me*Coughcough*300SP*Coughcough*)

Related: t/369770?hilit=kudosu

Bara- wrote:

I disagree with the 1-2 kudosu --> 1 kudosu, I believe it's good to encourage modding maps which people are soon to give up on

I do believe SP can need some changes. Having high SP doesn't neccessarily help you much (*Coughcough*Remember Me*Coughcough*300SP*Coughcough*)

Yeah, exactly. I don't know about your first statement though, because if the person has already given up, chances are you will never get any kudos. Yes, it's more rewarding but why would it be more rewarding for something that was probably easier to mod than other maps? Perhaps it would be based on drain time of the song then.

Endaris wrote:

Related: t/369770?hilit=kudosu

It is related but not the same, plus this has to do more with the ranking criteria too so I think it belongs here.

not gunna lie, really not a big fan for shooting kds at my own maps, and 7 mods is a bit too much. id say 5 is a good number.

if you have to shoot a bunch of your own stars at your map to get it to +12 i think you're doing something wrong. Either get 12 mods or get good enough impressions from people for them to contribute their own kudosu, that you gave them, to basically double the priority. It seriously isn't difficult to get 12 priority before going for ranking, unless you are A) trying to speedrank while showing the map to as few people as possible or B) only willing to put in the effort to show the map to BNs because you think your map is perfect (it is not).

Although I've fallen to the temptation to throw kd at my own maps to get them to +12, so oh well.

The double priority thing is what most people used to do, anyway. If they modded a map and liked it a lot, they would throw the kd they just got back into the map. With mods now giving priority, this seems to have fallen out of favor rather than giving modders the ability to give "double priority" for their mod if they like the map a lot.

It's somehow become a selfish matter of "I mod maps for kd i can put into my own map", nowadays. I frown every time I see a map with 4+ kd from the mapper themselves.

Just an idea, but what if once a map is ranked, those who shoot kudosu's get their kd's returned with an additional like 4% interest or something? (Rounded down to the nearest kudosu). That way everyone can shoot stars and "invest" on maps they think are good and deserve more priority. I picked a low percentile so you have to invest a reasonable amount of kd's in a map to see any net gain.

I mean, either way, the priority system is quite useless. Aside from the mandatory +12 SP I don't really see anyone caring about SP or making an effort to check maps with high SP.

Right, the priority system is quite useless.
Your idea with interests and stuff wouldn't make this better either (just throw all your KD on bubbled maps by experienced mappers) so you immediately get the KD-return.
And the only thing you can use these KD for is throwing more which doesn't do anything either.

A "priority system" should make it rewarding to jump onto maps with a high priority.
Only a couple things have to be figured out:
1. Ensuring that high priority is deserved and earned
2. Putting the reward for modders/BNs in relation to the priority of the map
3. Making the reward attractive for people who are interested in mapping

No clue if anyone read my post in the other thread but imo that would be one of the possibilities to fulfill the above mentioned criteria.
Sure it wouldn't any longer be "nah, i don't kd my own map" and many people would start throwing kd at their own maps but at least there would be something meaningful you could do with kudosu.
As long as the two dimensions of gaining priority (getting mods and getting kudosu) aren't separated I don't see a priority system doing something for anyone as the best possibility to raise the priority is to make other people mod your map. Which makes priority meaningless. Why should I mod a map that is getting tons of mods already? It's a snowball rolling downhill, nothing else. And that's exactly why people give a fuck about priority.
I know that it used to exist as orientation for the BAT but I don't see BNs going back to check maps based on priority on a forced basis
There has to be an additional incentive to mod other people's maps and the reward from modding other people's maps has to be bigger than getting your map modded (cause getting your map modded alone is great enough even if you wouldnt get any priority for it).
As such I think that the very basic idea of "modding high priority maps to accumulate KD quicker to get your own map to high priority to get mods quicker" would already be a good start (or how I like to call it in short "indirect M4M"). Not that anyone cares about my ideas though.~

Monstrata wrote:

Just an idea, but what if once a map is ranked, those who shoot kudosu's get their kd's returned with an additional like 4% interest or something? (Rounded down to the nearest kudosu). That way everyone can shoot stars and "invest" on maps they think are good and deserve more priority. I picked a low percentile so you have to invest a reasonable amount of kd's in a map to see any net gain.

I mean, either way, the priority system is quite useless. Aside from the mandatory +12 SP I don't really see anyone caring about SP or making an effort to check maps with high SP.

This'd mean I'll get around 168*1.04=174kd back
Having only a win of 6 after having spent so many seems a bit weird to me...

Anyways, I really agree with what Endaris said. There just need to be some kind of reward for modding high SP maps

Monstrata wrote:

Just an idea, but what if once a map is ranked, those who shoot kudosu's get their kd's returned with an additional like 4% interest or something? (Rounded down to the nearest kudosu). That way everyone can shoot stars and "invest" on maps they think are good and deserve more priority. I picked a low percentile so you have to invest a reasonable amount of kd's in a map to see any net gain.

It'd need to be much higher than 4%, especially if you say it will be rounded down. You need to spend 25 kudosu to get ONE back. I'm not too keen on spending 25 kudosu on any map for the chance of getting just one more. Especially if the map gets graveyarded, that's 25 kudosu I'm not getting back. This sounds more like gambling than anything.

I like this investment idea, but the bottom of the problem is that BN don't care about SP, and often more SP means a lower quality mapset and/or a very big mapset with a lot of difficulties that are a lot of work to mod.

So yeah we need some kind of reward for the BN, but also for the modders as well since they usually just mod the bare minimum for the sake of their own sets. BNs are becoming the only "legit" modders and normal ones are just a mean to get to the sacrosanct +12SP.

But this needs to be a well-thought reward, something that'll drive people to mod and mod well, not a quantity-over-quality one.
Modding v2 seems to help with that, with the upvote/downvote system, we could give modders some flashy forum titles or something for those with the best ratio and number of mods done.

Taking care of the modders-not-being-relevant issue will reduce the workload of BN a lot, thus allowing more time and energy for them to focus on sets that require the most attention for rank.

With the change of how the Ranking Criteria Subforum works from now on, topics like these are obsolete. I will send a PM to the author of the topic that encourages him to bring it up to one of the council members.