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MrSpazzaneve17 - osu! MEGAMIX

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Sonnyc
7,761 posts
Joined June 2008
Topic Starter
Sonnyc
Beatmap URL: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/399575

03:19:719 (1) -

This slider is placed in the 1/4 which is along with the previous 1/4 stream section. As a result, the slider has got an inconsistent slider tick setting with 03:22:028 (1) - 03:24:303 (1) etc.

Should the mapper start the slider from 03:19:754 along the bpm change? Will it not be a weird setting?

If the mapper prefers the current rhythm, then is adjusting the timing such as adding a 52.75 bpm timing section at 03:19:719 for a proper slider tick setting? Indeed there is a rule "Uninherited timing sections cannot be used to manipulate slider speeds. These can be very unexpected for the player while also disrupting the main menu pulse and slightly changing the overall timing of the map." but I'd like to ask if this could be a good exception.

Or will just keeping this pattern be one option?
Sonnyc
7,761 posts
Joined June 2008
Topic Starter
Sonnyc
Oh or asking the mapper to use a completely alternative rhythm could be one option too.
Natsu
8,076 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu
So first to all doesn't make sense to don't have the slider snapped to the red line, second delete the slider and try to remake it, is impossible to snap the tail to 03:20:891 - if you start the slider at 03:19:719 -, the mapper did manually edit the .osu to archive this and I think that's unrankable, anyways the slider should be starting with the new timing line.

The mapper should stick to a correct timing, he can add super slow slider or super fast one via notepad, with 0,10 limit IIRC.

Edit after checking a bit more, I'd suggest a timing recheck as well.
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,959 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoayu
Manually editing the .osu to achieve correct snapping is usually fine, just to clarify for Natsu. But if snapping to the red line doesnt make sense, then dont do it lool
Natsu
8,076 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu

Okoratu wrote:

Manually editing the .osu to achieve correct snapping is usually fine.
I remember some beatmap thread when this got discussed and some staff i dont remember who (I'm still looking for it) told that doing that is unrankable, which make sense, since you are editing something from notepad that can't be editing via the editor.



https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Ranking_Criteria

just to clarify for you, unless of course there is an unwritten rule about this
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,959 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoayu
I know that rule. It is there to prevent nonsense edits and edits with malicious intentions. Stuff like CS8, and others. If you blindly follow this rule you would disallow sliderborders without skin elements that would require adding one, as well.

To be honest some of pishi's maps would play like garbage if he didnt manually snap sliderends, especially on lowdiffs for redline bloodbath songs as sliderlength is calculated based on the bpm of the section it was created in, it doesnt adjust or automatically snap to bpm changes if it passes through them. Snapping something incorrectly if you have the option to actually make it work seems illogical, tbh. But this doesnt appear to be the place for this discussion so lets stop here lol.
Natsu
8,076 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu

Okoratu wrote:

I know that rule. It is there to prevent nonsense edits and edits with malicious intentions. Stuff like CS8, and others. If you blindly follow this rule you would disallow sliderborders without skin elements that would require adding one, as well.

To be honest some of pishi's maps would play like garbage if he didnt manually snap sliderends, especially on lowdiffs for redline bloodbath songs as sliderlength is calculated based on the bpm of the section it was created in, it doesnt adjust or automatically snap to bpm changes if it passes through them. Snapping something incorrectly if you have the option to actually make it work seems illogical, tbh. But this doesnt appear to be the place for this discussion so lets stop here lol.
well I think is the place, since is a problem related to this map, what I mean is written as a rule not as guideline, so it should be followed. As you can see even the slider velocity edits are there, guidelines are made for prevent no sense stuff, rules are there to be followed. Anyways I think the mapper will snap the slider start correctly, since I still don't get why he is starting the slider before the redline.
Sonnyc
7,761 posts
Joined June 2008
Topic Starter
Sonnyc
Well actually such discussion could be possible, but making an own thread could be possible too if you feel the need :3
Sonnyc
7,761 posts
Joined June 2008
Topic Starter
Sonnyc
Such cases exist when multiple bpm changes happen, and the mapper decided to express as a slider anyways. That can cause an unsnapped slider end, which demands a manual edit in .osu file.

Two rules collide here.

  1. Your map must be perfectly timed. This means that your BPM and offset are spot-on, sliders end when they should, notes are generally following a recognizable rhythm (such as the lyrics or drums) which is comprehensible by a player, and that there are no unsnapped notes (you can check this by running AIMod (shortcut ctrl+shift+a) in the editor).
  2. Do not manually edit anything in an .osu file that cannot be changed through the Editor. The only exceptions are .osu-specific storyboards, slider velocity multipliers and skin-related options such as SliderBorder and SliderTrackOverride. If non-standard slider velocity multipliers are used, they must be announced in the beatmap description during the modding process.
Ideally, selecting a rhythm which wouldn't cause such case would be the ultimate solution. But to use the original rhythm, wouldn't be the "snapping issue" that should go prior, while making a small edit in the .osu file? Under that rule, using catmull sliders itself is unrankable while it has nothing wrong to get used. Similar situation imo.
Bonsai
1,212 posts
Joined July 2011
Bonsai
Theoretically, ends of sliders that pass multiple timing sections can be snapped in the editor itself by setting a green line on its head and guessing the decimals of the SV-multiplier that is needed to make it land on the correct spot. It has the exact same outcome as editing the length-value in the .osu though, as soon as you move/change it in any way it will likely unsnap again.
Regardless of that, even if it weren't theoretically possible to change it in the editor itself, manually snapping sliderlengths in those cases is absolutely reasonable, and there is nothing wrong with using rhythms that need manual snapping - If a song has a strong timing change happening in a 1/1-interval, not timing that can cause audible timing-inaccuracies in a higher diff that mapped notes in-between that 1/1-gap, but mapping a 1/1-slider there in a lower is still as fitting as if you didn't time it.

This is being done all the time without causing any issues in the ranking process (for example half of my maps heh).

Loctav once claimed that sliders like that are actually just looking unsnapped in the editor and get snapped ingame, which is not true, but that is probably the reason why it is not mentioned as an exception in that RC-rule.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
Agree with Bonsai. That technique is actually how I do a lot of slider art's since I don't take into account snapping until i finish designing the slider xD.

It's quite possible to edit slider lengths without having to edit the notepad. Why? Because "slider velocity" is actually just slider length. When you increase SV, you're actually just increasing the length. BPM/snapping gives you the "time" aspect, while "SV" gives you distance, resulting in velocity. But that idea's quite convoluted, so we call slider-length increases slider-velocity to keep things simple xD.
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