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Welcome to the osu!catch World Cup 2016 Discussion Thread.
Here you can discuss everything related to the biggest worldwide osu!catch tournament.

Good luck everyone. This year's cwc sure will be interesting.

catch them bowling balls

cwc hype bois~

Can't wait to see what's in the map pool, there's been a huge increase in ranked specifics since last year so it'll be tough work for the selectors (:

Map scoring is based on a new metric, called Score V2, but unlike in osu! without the accuracy score portion.

yee

"Osu!Catch" is this the new name for "Catch The Beat"? :X

JBHyperion wrote:

Can't wait to see what's in the map pool, there's been a huge increase in ranked specifics since last year so it'll be tough work for the selectors (:

GO 4 IT tiebreaker hype :>

POOOOOOOOLAAAND HYPEEEEEE

JBHyperion wrote:

Can't wait to see what's in the map pool, there's been a huge increase in ranked specifics since last year so it'll be tough work for the selectors (:

no hype for ar9 converts ;w;

JBHyperion wrote:

Can't wait to see what's in the map pool, there's been a huge increase in ranked specifics since last year so it'll be tough work for the selectors (:

Same, I hope it'll be many ctb specifics maps/diff to be choosen on the mappool
& Fair maps too

gl everyone

Already signed myself up. lololol

GL Everyone~

PH hype!! >w<

hope i can play in the cwc

fruit pun world cup 2016

nvm ill be there but as back up :3

deadbeat wrote:

fruit pun world cup 2016

sorry didnt catch that :^)

Go Go Go Indonesian #IndonesianPlayersAreAwesome

WOW ....

looks like things are about to get juicy

ztrot wrote:

looks like things are about to get juicy

I think I wont be able to beat you in pun the beat world cup...

in my salad days i thought i could rival ztrot's pun abilities but i quickly realized i'd just be beaten to a pulp

Serving up the juiciest of puns on a silver Platter

Interesant

Good luck

goodluck for CWC participants

hype for juice please (i need some juice >w<)

So any news on the details of Score_v2? :U

haven't tried it yet

He Ang Erika wrote:

So any news on the details of Score_v2? :U

Hope it's ok to respond to this here, I know there's the thread for ScoreV2 feedback though it seems to be focused entirely on standard.

Tried it out in a multi, first impressions are not so great. It's very heavily combo based with a max score of 1 million. A 1 miss towards the end/start has far less of an impact compared to a 1 miss right near the middle.
Here's a 1 miss in the middle.

A 1 miss right near the start.

And 6 misses right at the end.


Droplets are still almost irrelevant and completely overshadowed by spinners which it seems will have even more of an impact on a non-fc score. Really it seems to be in many ways similar to how it is now but just with a 1 million score cap + mod multiplier + bananas. Speaking of mod mulitpliers, HR is 1.1x and DT 1.2x . I don't know if this has just been carried over from the standard version but it's good to see DT not so underweighted.

Was really hoping ScoreV2 would be more forgiving to a 1 miss halfway through but it looks like it will still be a death sentence to your score. Curious to see what others think about this.

Sorcerer wrote:

He Ang Erika wrote:

So any news on the details of Score_v2? :U

Hope it's ok to respond to this here, I know there's the thread for ScoreV2 feedback though it seems to be focused entirely on standard.

Tried it out in a multi, first impressions are not so great. It's very heavily combo based with a max score of 1 million. A 1 miss towards the end/start has far less of an impact compared to a 1 miss right near the middle.
Here's a 1 miss in the middle.

A 1 miss right near the start.

And 6 misses right at the end.


Droplets are still almost irrelevant and completely overshadowed by spinners which it seems will have even more of an impact on a non-fc score. Really it seems to be in many ways similar to how it is now but just with a 1 million score cap + mod multiplier + bananas. Speaking of mod mulitpliers, HR is 1.1x and DT 1.2x . I don't know if this has just been carried over from the standard version but it's good to see DT not so underweighted.

Was really hoping ScoreV2 would be more forgiving to a 1 miss halfway through but it looks like it will still be a death sentence to your score. Curious to see what others think about this.

WOW THANKS! O3O I thought they would have fixed the "combo decides everything" when I saw Score_V2 for CTB (associating with how the Standard Score_v2 works). So far it just seems to be "scaling the total score of all maps to 1,000,000 like Mania, with heavier weighted bananas".

About Accuracy VS Combo:

I think droplets are able to account for more of your score than you guys think, why not try to do some testing on maps with only a few droplets, and then comparing to very slider heavy maps with really high droplet amounts. I might actually do some testing with it myself later today.

Zak wrote:

I think droplets are able to account for more of your score than you guys think, why not try to do some testing on maps with only a few droplets, and then comparing to very slider heavy maps with really high droplet amounts. I might actually do some testing with it myself later today.

I don't have the multi link anymore but we did try something with droplets. Dropping about 25% acc caused you to drop around ~25k score if you full combo'd. Didn't check if this was consistent but it may help a bit here.



EDIT:



Yoishi was on scoreV1 so discount that.

i'll post this here since it might speed up some stuff

smoogipooo wrote:

At least 900000 of your score depends on your combo and combo retention like in standard. Up to 100000 of your score comes from droplets. Then there is bonus score - 500 per banana caught in banana waterfalls.
The droplet score is scaled down depending on the ratio of droplets to other objects in the map. For example a map with one droplet will scale the 100000 very low whilst a map with only sliders (and thus a ton of droplets) will scale the droplet score up to 100000.
If the droplet score is less than 100000, then the combo score is increased. For example if the droplet score was scaled to 50000 then you could get 950000 from the combo portion.

I should mention that this is still being tweaked and any feedback is greatly appreciated

Personally, i think that old system score for ctb was waaaaaaay better than this. Maybe not perfect, but cmon. It really hurts when you get 1x miss and then you know that your score will be bad.

The point of Score v2 is to prevent an entire team being carried as it's happened in the past, now your entire team has to play consistently well or you'll fall behind. It worked well for Standard and as long as it's tweaked a bit to fit CtB it should work just fine for us as well.

Zak wrote:

The point of Score v2 is to prevent an entire team being carried as it's happened in the past, now your entire team has to play consistently well or you'll fall behind. It worked well for Standard and as long as it's tweaked a bit to fit CtB it should work just fine for us as well.

But now misses in the middle effectively halve the score you can achieve whilst a miss at the start or the end barely tickles your score in comparison.

isn't half the score less of a score drop that score v1 though? i would of thought a miss around the half way mark with score v1 would only give about 1/4 of the max score

deadbeat wrote:

isn't half the score less of a score drop that score v1 though? i would of thought a miss around the half way mark with score v1 would only give about 1/4 of the max score

Probably so but if ScoreV2 is what we will be using throughout the game sometime in the future then we want to get this "right", not just settle for something because it's better than ScoreV1. Right now it looks like ScoreV2 adds a 1 million score cap but that's about it which does stop one player carrying but it doesn't seem to change much else.

There's plenty more I'd like to discuss but I think it would be a good idea to have a thread on the CtB forum like the one for standard so we're not spamming this thread that is supposed to be about the tournament itself.

deadbeat wrote:

isn't half the score less of a score drop that score v1 though? i would of thought a miss around the half way mark with score v1 would only give about 1/4 of the max score

I'd feel much worse missing in the middle of scorev2 than in the middle of scorev1, knowing that the people on my team have a chance of being able to carry me through.

Riari wrote:

deadbeat wrote:

isn't half the score less of a score drop that score v1 though? i would of thought a miss around the half way mark with score v1 would only give about 1/4 of the max score

I'd feel much worse missing in the middle of scorev2 than in the middle of scorev1, knowing that the people on my team have a chance of being able to carry me through.

That's the entire point of Score v2 though....

Zak wrote:

Riari wrote:

I'd feel much worse missing in the middle of scorev2 than in the middle of scorev1, knowing that the people on my team have a chance of being able to carry me through.

That's the entire point of Score v2 though....

ScoreV2 would be nice if it didn't work off combo, I don't see how missing in the middle is any worse than missing at the end and why you should be punished even harder for it with the new system. If the system was like mania where combo was just a pretty number, but misses were weighted a lot more then I'd be much happier as matches wouldn't just hinge on 1/3'rd of the map waiting for somebody to make a mistake.

Riari wrote:

ScoreV2 would be nice if it didn't work off combo, I don't see how missing in the middle is any worse than missing at the end and why you should be punished even harder for it with the new system. If the system was like mania where combo was just a pretty number, but misses were weighted a lot more then I'd be much happier as matches wouldn't just hinge on 1/3'rd of the map waiting for somebody to make a mistake.

A G R E E

Well hey guess what? In both Standard and Taiko if you're the only player in the match to miss that more than likely means you lost that point, so why should it be any different here in a mode where high accuracy is such an easy thing to come by? Yes it's important to have accuracy decide some of the score but anything bigger than 10% is too much.

Riari wrote:

ScoreV2 would be nice if it didn't work off combo, I don't see how missing in the middle is any worse than missing at the end and why you should be punished even harder for it with the new system. If the system was like mania where combo was just a pretty number, but misses were weighted a lot more then I'd be much happier as matches wouldn't just hinge on 1/3'rd of the map waiting for somebody to make a mistake.

YES. 100% Right.

Zak wrote:

Well hey guess what? In both Standard and Taiko if you're the only player in the match to miss that more than likely means you lost that point, so why should it be any different here in a mode where high accuracy is such an easy thing to come by? Yes it's important to have accuracy decide some of the score but anything bigger than 10% is too much.

That is correct, if you are the only person to miss.

If person A misses 1 time in the middle, he contributes less than person B who misses 27 times at the end. Clearly person A should contribute more but he offered less to his team than person B who evidently played worse in this situation.

Accuracy as 10% is very odd to me too, but weighting misses rather than combo seems a nicer thing to do.

I understand that not everything is perfect, but I don't see any advantages for scorev2 that I'd take over scorev1.

Was going to do a bigger post complaining talking about combo based scoring but I'll leave that to some other time. So instead here's some stuff on spinners and mod multipliers.

Gameplay: [smoogipooo] Reduce osu!catch ScoreV2 banana value from 500 to 350.

Don't disagree with nerfing the value though not sure this is the way to go. The more spinners in a map the bigger the potential score bonus is and could really come to overshadow individual notes. The percentage of your score achieved by spinners is considerably larger in ScoreV2 compared to ScoreV1 and this percentage will grow with non-fc plays. Comparing two fictional scores with roughly realistic numbers because ScoreV2 can only be tested in a multi

1. ScoreV2 - 500/1000 combo, 500,000 points + 150 bananas caught worth 52,500 for a total of 552,500 - A roughly 10% increase from bananas
2. ScoreV1 - 500/1000 combo, 10,000,000 points + 150 bananas caught worth 165,000 for a total of 10,165,000 - A roughly 1.5% increase from bananas

There's a much bigger emphasis on bananas in ScoreV2 compared to ScoreV1 and probably too much. Currently in ScoreV1 spinners only really have an impact on full combo plays, a higher combo beats a higher spin almost all the time. A system similar to that of droplets in ScoreV2 with a maximum amount of points and then scaling the value of each banana based on the number of bananas in the map might help things getting out of hand on spinner heavy maps. However too small a cap may leave spinners feeling unrewarding and too high a cap still has bananas contributing a high total percentage of a score.

Now I don't have the brain to figure out the maths behind this (or any maths) but could the value of bananas be tied to combo? Say a base value of 100, scaling up to 500 based on the maximum combo of the map, so holding a full combo with a spinner at the end would have each banana would be worth 500, whereas if someone only had half max combo at the end they would be worth 300ish.

Also wanted to talk about mod multipliers, was hoping to see some others express opinion on this but I don't see that happening until CWC starts and it's too late to change anything As I said in an earlier post, DT buff is great but it's arguable it's too high now. Depending on the map, DT can be considerably harder than HR but the opposite is also true and even a HDHR play is worth less than a DT play. A safe decision could be to make the multipliers the same for DT and HR.

More on topic, I see HD is allowed again in the HR and DT pools, nice for those who play with it but a disadvantage for those who don't. Would be nice to see HD not give a score bonus on these maps to keep things fair, it's not the HDHR and HDDT pools afterall but this didn't happen last year so I doubt it will this year.

Considering that ScoreV2 is only for tournament play as of right now the mod multipliers are fine, you'll obviously never see DT played by one player while HR is played by another, so there's no confusion going on there, maybe it should just be even to keep consistency but it's not really a big deal imo. HD should definitely give a bonus when added to HR or DT, no matter if it's "easier" to read for some players just because they use it more or not it's a mod that makes the map harder to time and therefore harder to Full Combo warranting more points, it was shown to not be a problem last year and I doubt it will be with ScoreV2 either.

Also I don't think the score bananas give is unfair at all, spinning is a skill so if both teams happen to have close scores (FC or not) and it's decided by a couple bananas what's the problem? I don't see it really getting out of hand on a spinner heavy map because everyone plays through and has an equal chance of spinning well on it, especially with the score per banana getting nerfed so much.

Zak wrote:

Considering that ScoreV2 is only for tournament play as of right now the mod multipliers are fine, you'll obviously never see DT played by one player while HR is played by another, so there's no confusion going on there, maybe it should just be even to keep consistency but it's not really a big deal imo. HD should definitely give a bonus when added to HR or DT, no matter if it's "easier" to read for some players just because they use it more or not it's a mod that makes the map harder to time and therefore harder to Full Combo warranting more points, it was shown to not be a problem last year and I doubt it will be with ScoreV2 either.

Also I don't think the score bananas give is unfair at all, spinning is a skill so if both teams happen to have close scores (FC or not) and it's decided by a couple bananas what's the problem? I don't see it really getting out of hand on a spinner heavy map because everyone plays through and has an equal chance of spinning well on it, especially with the score per banana getting nerfed so much.

Quite a few people agreed with my suggestion last year. When picking a HR/DT map pool, people pick it to play HR or DT, NOT HD. I understand its fair game in the HD pool and freemod, but the advantage outside of those two just seems unfair.