The whole map.Zelos wrote:
There is only one problem i see with this is showing how long you would hold the hold note for in gameplay.
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A Hold feature.
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While I am still shocked, I agree with Larto completely.
All in all, I think hold notes would look and sound nicer than hold sliders. Aside from that, I don't see much extra reason to implement this rather than re-rank hold sliders. However, in my opinion, it would greatly affect the looks and sounds of it. Particularly because the rapid slider ends will usually cause the hit sounds to go terribly with the song, and the beatmappers rarely, if ever, turn the volume down for them when the hold sliders are placed for a single note, rather than many. As for looks, in my opinion, a slider that has its ends overlapping just looks a bit unprofessional to me.
However, there is a small difference funtionality-wise. With hold sliders, if there are notes after it, it is sometimes difficult to tell when to let go and switch to the next hold slider / hit circle. With the way I see hold markers coming along, if they did get implemented, it would be a bit easier to see when to let go.
I don't think it needs to be a huge priority, but I support this.
However, there is a small difference funtionality-wise. With hold sliders, if there are notes after it, it is sometimes difficult to tell when to let go and switch to the next hold slider / hit circle. With the way I see hold markers coming along, if they did get implemented, it would be a bit easier to see when to let go.
I don't think it needs to be a huge priority, but I support this.
Larto: Having it officially implemented would increase the amount of abuse, actually.
Having it officially implemented would make it 100% technically rankable, as long as it went to something in the music. Many BATs are way too lenient; I got a 10-second-long 1/4 stream ranked once. And no, it didn't get unranked (though there was a ton of rage).
As long as it's technically rankable, it's not hard to get a BAT to rank it if you look around enough. "Will you change this?" "No." "'K, RANKED!" Just go to a different BAT if one disagrees; with MAT bubbles, getting questionable things ranked is easier than ever. So, people can get away with all kinds of silly things.
However, I support this feature request. Some people will still use this correctly in a fun way, and those who don't, well, better something pretty and readable than a .5x 1/8 repeat slider.
Having it officially implemented would make it 100% technically rankable, as long as it went to something in the music. Many BATs are way too lenient; I got a 10-second-long 1/4 stream ranked once. And no, it didn't get unranked (though there was a ton of rage).
As long as it's technically rankable, it's not hard to get a BAT to rank it if you look around enough. "Will you change this?" "No." "'K, RANKED!" Just go to a different BAT if one disagrees; with MAT bubbles, getting questionable things ranked is easier than ever. So, people can get away with all kinds of silly things.
However, I support this feature request. Some people will still use this correctly in a fun way, and those who don't, well, better something pretty and readable than a .5x 1/8 repeat slider.
on a different matter, lol, Ekaru, what's wrong with 10s long stream?
what i have to say now is i agree with Larto completely yeah.
Hold slider nowadays can be fun on taiko o/
Topic Starter
Love the support this is getting. Note that I ask for a hold "feature," not a hold "note" (although my opening post only talks about a hold note). Making hold sliders re-rankable is perfectly fine :3 (provided, of course, that we figure out a way to make them without using red lines).
I personally thought of changing the 0.5~2.0 SV restriction to 0.1~2.0.
I personally thought of changing the 0.5~2.0 SV restriction to 0.1~2.0.
omgNatsumeRin wrote:
what i have to say now is i agree with Larto completely yeah.
Because it didn't fit the music. At all. A 10-second-long stream works if it's clear in the music, but here... No. XDTKiller wrote:
on a different matter, lol, Ekaru, what's wrong with 10s long stream?
Take a look at this video. It represents hold notes at their best. I know that osu! is a different game and averything but I still think hold notes sometimes are really awesome so I do support this.
Haha the first thing I thought of was the hold notes in DJMAX Technika
Either way, yes I support this request +1
Either way, yes I support this request +1
support + 1
mekadon_old
bump.
Probably one of the better threads that actually make me want to bother to read everything. Time well-spent I say.
I like that people are wanting this enough to fight for it.
I would also personally like to see this feature given the green light.
You have my earnest support.
I like that people are wanting this enough to fight for it.
I would also personally like to see this feature given the green light.
You have my earnest support.
Natteke wrote:
Take a look at this video. It represents hold notes at their best. I know that osu! is a different game and averything but I still think hold notes sometimes are really awesome so I do support this.
how are any of those different from sliders in osu? In DJMAX Technika, it's a slider at 1.0x speed. In O2Jam, it's a note where you just hold down the button (exactly like you have to do in sliders). Moving the mouse is easy enough.thepianist wrote:
Haha the first thing I thought of was the hold notes in DJMAX Technika
Either way, yes I support this request +1
Can't you use a silenced repeating slider?
This is what I think of when I think of a hold in osu: (watch at 0:42)
lolziin wrote:
This is what I think of when I think of a hold in osu: (watch at 0:42)
Eww please don't do that. Just use a long slider or two beats :/ziin wrote:
Can't you use a silenced repeating slider?
The entire point of a hold slider is that the sliderball/circle is moving very slowly, seeing it vibrate like a sugar-coated drug addict after a case of redbull doesn't really feel right.ziin wrote:
Can't you use a silenced repeating slider?
I was referring to the blue ones, where you literally hold the note for it's duration.ziin wrote:
how are any of those different from sliders in osu? In DJMAX Technika, it's a slider at 1.0x speed.thepianist wrote:
Haha the first thing I thought of was the hold notes in DJMAX Technika
Either way, yes I support this request +1
Bump.
As ziin has said, the hold feature of osu! are sliders themselves, no need to see hold sliders, i dont remember ever seeing any "hold notes" on ouendan either? DDR and other rythm games' hold notes you hold a key... yeah, but that's because you dont have to move around the screen, sliders you also hold a key (or mouse button) difference is that you have to follow a path.
Sorry Larto but this gets no support from me =(
Sorry Larto but this gets no support from me =(
It does from me.
Sure, you can go and say "but sliders ARE hold notes alredy" "Spinner are hold notes alredy"
Don't forget osu! has a feature other rhythm games don't have, it's movement. I Move the mouse to x1.3 speed because on X part it just makes more sense because the music goes more upbeat, on another map I use slowdowns because the music goes more silent. Heck, sliders sometimes even do movements on the pitch changes.
If the music is demanding to hold still and not move, because it actually goes with the flow the music has, then a hold slider would feel much better than a spinner, a slider or a break.
Think on this, when you're thinking on the flow for your map think you're doing a choreography. There will be places on when you want for the dancers to stop a bit and make the audience hold their breaths a bit until the epic part starts again, same goes when you're a mapper, you're trying to transmit the feeling the song has for you on to the player.
+1 (I'm not sure if I alredy +1'd this though)
Sure, you can go and say "but sliders ARE hold notes alredy" "Spinner are hold notes alredy"
Don't forget osu! has a feature other rhythm games don't have, it's movement. I Move the mouse to x1.3 speed because on X part it just makes more sense because the music goes more upbeat, on another map I use slowdowns because the music goes more silent. Heck, sliders sometimes even do movements on the pitch changes.
If the music is demanding to hold still and not move, because it actually goes with the flow the music has, then a hold slider would feel much better than a spinner, a slider or a break.
Think on this, when you're thinking on the flow for your map think you're doing a choreography. There will be places on when you want for the dancers to stop a bit and make the audience hold their breaths a bit until the epic part starts again, same goes when you're a mapper, you're trying to transmit the feeling the song has for you on to the player.
+1 (I'm not sure if I alredy +1'd this though)
Use 50% speed then, oh wait, too many ppl use 50% speed where it doesnt belong... ok then let's allow 40%, then more ppl use 40% where it doesnt belong, let's use 30% then! oh wait...
I guess you can see where im going with this...
Edit:
No one's opinion is shit, i've read the thread and value everyone's opinions, and yours as well just that i still dont see anything that really justifies the use of said Hold Sliders, you can already achieve 25% slider speed with MM's method, and if that's too fast for you well then i can't help you there, just get used to the current limit rather than trying to extend it again.
I guess you can see where im going with this...
Edit:
No one's opinion is shit, i've read the thread and value everyone's opinions, and yours as well just that i still dont see anything that really justifies the use of said Hold Sliders, you can already achieve 25% slider speed with MM's method, and if that's too fast for you well then i can't help you there, just get used to the current limit rather than trying to extend it again.
people use spinners and sliders wrongly too! let's remove them! Also people don't know how to use distance snap! Let's disable it plz.Sakura Hana wrote:
Use 50% speed then, oh wait, too many ppl use 50% speed where it doesnt belong... ok then let's allow 40%, then more ppl use 40% where it doesnt belong, let's use 30% then! oh wait...
I guess you can see where im going with this...
+1 support from me.
I won't talk anything else than this, so please don't answer to my comment just to "LOLOLOLOL YOUR OPINIONS IS SHIT GTFO"
Before hold sliders got banished to unrankableland, I remember seeing a few that were pretty well done. I don't really care what implementation gets used, but hold sliders can be cool sometimes and for that I say sure, why not? Support.
+1 support for negative slider speeds.Sakura Hana wrote:
I guess you can see where im going with this...
hold sliders can get cool sometimes (wait.... most time, for me), first give an answer to this. if you just say "no", come on, maybe we should know more about flows and make the opinion there the same.
if "yes", then people may worry about abuse, yeah abuse, but i think we have modder MATs BATs and many players and they can't tell if it's abuse? if it is, then don't rank it is just fine, like you won't rank a spam 1/4 map, like you won't rank a map with high slider velocity and 2.0x distance spacing all the time, is it so hard to do so? or too lazy to do so?
in fact i think the standard of "rankable" should slightly start to move to "good maps", not make good maps cut themselves to become a rankable map, because if you just want rankable then we should start to work on a mapping machine to solve all songs, it's another topic anyway.
if "yes", then people may worry about abuse, yeah abuse, but i think we have modder MATs BATs and many players and they can't tell if it's abuse? if it is, then don't rank it is just fine, like you won't rank a spam 1/4 map, like you won't rank a map with high slider velocity and 2.0x distance spacing all the time, is it so hard to do so? or too lazy to do so?
in fact i think the standard of "rankable" should slightly start to move to "good maps", not make good maps cut themselves to become a rankable map, because if you just want rankable then we should start to work on a mapping machine to solve all songs, it's another topic anyway.
i think a hold feature can be used to directly hold the note first and then there is another approach circle to release
ah, sorry I didn't see this for weeks.thepianist wrote:
I was referring to the blue ones, where you literally hold the note for it's duration.
I actually made a technika map which does all 4 (5?) notes:
Normal = Circle
Drag/chain = slider
hold = repeating slider (oh noes!)
repeat = stacked circles
I think it works out just fine, though I might mute the repeating slider.
ugh, for example, I don't like to make long (longer than 1/1) sliders, and, since using red timing sections to make a hold slider is not allowed anymore, you can't possibly make a smooth hold note / slider. So all you left to do is a) Use slow slider velocity (which I doubt anyone would do only for the sake of hold note) b) Use 0.5x timing section which won't give the exact effect of hold we need. So yeah...ziin wrote:
how are any of those different from sliders in osu?
Sakura Hana wrote:
I guess you can see where im going with this...
Yes I do, and I can't say other than...
Also...Larto wrote:
The reasoning that it "can be abused" is hardly a valid one. Every kind of creativity can be abused.
Why don't we remove the player's ability to set a slider speed? Just let the slider speed be determined by the BPM alone! I mean, the player can abuse the slider speeds and confuse the player!
Why don't we remove the player's ability to use hitsounds? Just let the hitsounds be set automatically! I mean, the player can abuse the hitsounds and make them sound awful!
Hell, just create maps automatically! Because, you know, players could create bad ones! *shudder*
That's probably because you've still not been on the need of one of them yet, or because you still have not "felt" the need of it, instead. Because when it comes down to beatmaps creation, it's all about how the mapper feels the song, and that explains why 2 mappers can map a completely different mapset with the same song, because 2 mappers feel the song in different ways. I do have used MM's method and, while it does helps a bit when the hold feeling isn't that extreme (or the hold time isn't that long), there will be times on when it's not enough. Besides, you sacrifice speedups :P.Sakura Hana wrote:
No one's opinion is shit, i've read the thread and value everyone's opinions, and yours as well just that i still dont see anything that really justifies the use of said Hold Sliders, you can already achieve 25% slider speed with MM's method, and if that's too fast for you well then i can't help you there, just get used to the current limit rather than trying to extend it again.
This is different in gameplay, as it implies more score than just a hold slider/note due to the repeats.ziin wrote:
I think it works out just fine, though I might mute the repeating slider.
score is all relative. Why does score matter anyway? It increases score only slightly, unless you use a lot of them, or at the beginning of the map.Krisom wrote:
This is different in gameplay, as it implies more score than just a hold slider/note due to the repeats.
Let's say you have to use more than one hold note.ziin wrote:
score is all relative. Why does score matter anyway? It increases score only slightly, unless you use a lot of them, or at the beginning of the map.
Or even better, that the sliderspeed you're currently using is too fast and even using MM's method, a 1/2 x0.5 slider isn't what you want for the slider to look in visual style as a "hold slider". Then you'd be forced to make it a 1/4 repeat, right? or maybe even a 1/8 repeat. Have you seen how those looks at high BPMs? ( it's probably the case we're analyzing here, because we're thinking on a high sliderspeed anyways) There is not a way to make all those repeat arrows not "animate" like they are supposed to when the sliderball reaches the end.
I'm pretty sure it wouldn't go with the visual style the mapper wants for a hold section anyways, because if there's a reason to use that it's probably a section with close to no animations or movements involved. Oh, this would also increase the score a lot if the tickrate is not 4, wich is most likely the case.
Also don't forget there is a score limit, and 15M maps are not weird these days. Why would one of those mapsets be unable to add one of those "hold repeat sliders" you mention just due to the score? Yes, this is a rare situation, but a situation that might be avoided if this is implemented.
@ziin: also, i don't think a 1/2 or 1/4 repeated slider could express the feeling of "hold" or "slow", you can just seeing the sliderball moving crazy, it's hold, but not a slow way.
Sliders ARE osu!'s hold notes.Lunah wrote:
every rhythm game has hold notes D:
including osu. They're called spinners and sliders. I don't see why we need another one, just because the workaround for what you guys want "feels" bad, even though it plays exactly the same.
Take a look at technika's hold notes. They're exactly like a repeating slider, except maybe it scores differently.
Take a look at technika's hold notes. They're exactly like a repeating slider, except maybe it scores differently.