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Map Ranking~?

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +0
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
NatsumeRin
yes... a ranking for maps like niconico weekly or vocaloid weekly, not only a "map rating" which been said useless or meaningless, i'd like to see if we can take several things into accout together:
plays, rating, favourites, upvotes and downvotes.

we counts how many those things improved in a week (or a month, just saying) and cauculate it as follow:

map point = (plays + favourites*1000+ (upvotes-downvotes)*A)*B

A = upvotes/total votes * 50
B = rating-7, but at least B=1, means if a map get <8 rating, B=1.

assume there are2 maps, X and Y,
X gain 20,000 plays, 5 favourites, 120 upvotes and 30 downvotes, rating=8.5
Y gain 10,000 plays, 2 favoutites, 50 upvotes and 0 downvotes, rating=9.8

X get a map point = (20000 + 5000 + 3600) *1.5 = 42900
Y get a map point = (10000 + 2000 + 2500) *2.8 = 40600

X wins.

what i want to say is if no one cares a map, play it just for its score, rate it a 9 or 10 for it's not bad or it's easy to get a S, can we say it's a good map?

i know this can't be a nice judge for all maps but i guess most.
also, as a mapper i'd like to see where my maps go instead of look at a "mapper ranking", the only thing i could know from it is i need to make more maps so my rating will increase 0.03 or 0.04 for every ranked map.

opinions?
Wishy
2,974 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
The idea is pretty good, but since most plays are from massing retries because of a single miss/100... plus that a map is popular doesn't mean it's good.
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
NatsumeRin

Wishy22 wrote:

The idea is pretty good, but since most plays are from massing retries because of a single miss/100... plus that a map is popular doesn't mean it's good.
a popular map usually is the better one compared to a map that nobody cares, by the way, as i know multiplay is a large part of total plays.
yes, i agree there are exceptions, just think it's a better way to judge.
Krisom
osu! Alumni
2,867 posts
Joined April 2009
Krisom

NatsumeRin wrote:

... or vocaloid weekly...
God I love those *-*

Oh yeah, I don't think it might work.

The main problem is not that the current system wont work, it is that a large portion of people vote/downvote based on the song, not on the map. Same happens to plays (lol bad apple), and favourites.

It would be a great idea if not, btw, if has a lot of thought put into it

(lol ilu rin >w<)
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
NatsumeRin

Krisom wrote:

NatsumeRin wrote:

... or vocaloid weekly...
God I love those *-*

Oh yeah, I don't think it might work.

The main problem is not that the current system wont work, it is that a large portion of people vote/downvote based on the song, not on the map. Same happens to plays (lol bad apple), and favourites.

It would be a great idea if not, btw, if has a lot of thought put into it

(lol ilu rin >w<)
yes... that happens to some maps, i just thought people will mention them before me hahah. but as i can see, rating is the one that depends on the song most (well, sometimes even myself), usually it's easier to be addicted to a map than addicted just to a simple song (also a reason of that i don't agree "one map for one song")
this would change something... or at least a fun ranking that i'd like to see (hey that's the main reason!).
Jarby
2,963 posts
Joined August 2008
Jarby
So instead of taking in user rating, we're taking in other data that is just as useless and meaningless. I certainly don't think this a good way of going about it.
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
NatsumeRin

Jarby wrote:

So instead of taking in user rating, we're taking in other data that is just as useless and meaningless. I certainly don't think this a good way of going about it.
where's "as useless and meaningless", i would try not to be offending, but:
"the map get a damn low rating, few guys really favourites it, just say wow it's good because it's a joke map and get ranked, nobody likes to play it, since the song is even joking, ok and it's still a good map."
serious?

before getting more jokes into serious things, there's much more serious things can be done, and joke is not a reason to deny them.

the main idea is: a good map will earn point for its playing well so people would play it more and favourite more, it describes better what a map likes than a simply rating.
Jarby
2,963 posts
Joined August 2008
Jarby

NatsumeRin wrote:

the main idea is: a good map will earn point for its playing well so people would play it more and favourite more, it describes better what a map likes than a simply rating.
What I'm saying here is that play count and favourites are not good indicators of map quality. Notice how you rarely ever see English pop songs up as most played? It's not because they're mapped badly or that they aren't mapped at all, it's because Touhou songs, anime songs and the like are overwhelming popular in the community. They will typically be played more and favourited more just for the sake of them even existing as ranked maps. Even if you were trying to set up this system as "maps the community like because of their affixation with otaku music", it would be pointless because the current statistics shown accurately.

Don't you think the ranking charts are enough? They serve the same basic purpose.
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
NatsumeRin

Jarby wrote:

What I'm saying here is that play count and favourites are not good indicators of map quality.
they're better indicators than a certain small group of people, from some events we can see they have a judge system that is different from others. "good maps" judged by the whole community or "good maps" judged by a small group (obviously they have the different prefers from the larger community), which one is better. and what do you think?

Jarby wrote:

Even if you were trying to set up this system as "maps the community like because of their affixation with otaku music", it would be pointless because the current statistics shown accurately.
not really, i guess you didn't read what i posted or you need to improve your math a bit.

Jarby wrote:

Don't you think the ranking charts are enough? They serve the same basic purpose.
do you think ranking chart still keeps its original purpose... oh well, say it clearly, it's "a list of maps that a small community likes and half of the maps are from this community", right? if answer is "yes", then my idea has its meaning.
Krisom
osu! Alumni
2,867 posts
Joined April 2009
Krisom
I don't think you're either reading Jarby's post accurately or your english is being accurate, but either way, I'll have to agree with Jarby (as I previously mentioned).

Yes, it is a good idea, but the community is so biased right now (for one side or the other) that it won't work.
The players and mappers who like Japanese songs just won't map or play English songs, and therefore, there's a defined style for japanese maps, same goes to English maps/mappers/players.
They day I see DJpop mappping english rock and Jarby mapping Hatsune Miku or something moe moe desu kun, and see them being rated for the maps they are and not for thesong on wich they are mapped, I'll eat these words, but as we all know, that is unlikely to happen.
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
NatsumeRin

Krisom wrote:

They day I see DJpop mappping english rock and Jarby mapping Hatsune Miku or something moe moe desu kun, and see them being rated for the maps they are and not for thesong on wich they are mapped, I'll eat these words, but as we all know, that is unlikely to happen.
i guess so, rip it then.

edit: finally can't avoid it change to a mapping style discuss, *sigh.
Last edited by NatsumeRin , edited 1 time in total.
xsrsbsns
1,936 posts
Joined July 2010
xsrsbsns
佩服你想这些... 8-)

First off, yes rating systems are always inaccurate, happens everywhere..

Taking other stats may change things a little, but you won't really get accurate results too.

There is no need, because the system now actually reflects what the osu players think of the map (they manually rate them).
No matter the reason: the mapset, the storyboard, the song, and even biased votes - you can't really avoid this.
(what makes them happy)

We have to live with it.. That said, if a map is really good technically, people will still know it somehow, and especially the ones who matter.
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish

Krisom wrote:

Jarby mapping Hatsune Miku .
I actually laughed out loud. Jarby's next troll song is gonna be even better than protcologist, srs
Mashley
2,042 posts
Joined September 2008
Mashley

Krisom wrote:

They day I see DJpop mappping english rock and Jarby mapping Hatsune Miku
So, 13 and 20 months ago respectively?
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani

Krisom wrote:

They day I see DJpop mappping english rock and Jarby mapping Hatsune Miku or something moe moe desu kun
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/10178
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/6596
Jarby
2,963 posts
Joined August 2008
Jarby
Guys, it's not funny when you miss the important half of the quote

Krisom wrote:

They day I see DJpop mappping english rock and Jarby mapping Hatsune Miku or something moe moe desu kun, and see them being rated for the maps they are and not for thesong on wich they are mapped, I'll eat these words, but as we all know, that is unlikely to happen.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,945 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
The paradigm surrounding all of the Bad Apple maps is a testament to the utter futility of any inclusive player-based ranking system - it will fail utterly and abysmally because the voting skew will always be favored towards people who enjoy the song rather than people who enjoy the map for whatever reason.

The system suggested in this thread will still be prone to the problems the current system has, and thusly there is no real reason to even consider implementing it at this time, or at any time in the foreseeable future.

Charts are the only way I could see ranking really becoming prominent, but even they need some work as right now they are very limited in scope, with beatmaps made by MAT members often composing half or more of all the maps in a chart, which is quite frankly unacceptable.
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc

Ephemeral wrote:

The paradigm surrounding all of the Bad Apple maps is a testament to the utter futility of any inclusive player-based ranking system - it will fail utterly and abysmally because the voting skew will always be favored towards people who enjoy the song rather than people who enjoy the map for whatever reason.

The system suggested in this thread will still be prone to the problems the current system has, and thusly there is no real reason to even consider implementing it at this time, or at any time in the foreseeable future.

Charts are the only way I could see ranking really becoming prominent, but even they need some work as right now they are very limited in scope, with beatmaps made by MAT members often composing half or more of all the maps in a chart, which is quite frankly unacceptable.
offtopic but, about how many MATs and BATs actually nominate maps for the charts
NatsumeRin
osu! Alumni
4,032 posts
Joined August 2009
Topic Starter
NatsumeRin

ouranhshc wrote:

offtopic but, about how many MATs and BATs actually nominate maps for the charts

Zekira wrote:

Wow, DON'T CUT actually got in even if I was the only one that nominated it, haha
^happened in November Charts.
off-topic though, player-based ranking is better than relationship-based ranking.

as i said, rip it if it goes further on a wrong direction.
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