Problem Details:

When I have the "Frame Limiter" in the options set to "240fps" or above I am completely unable to hit the large taiko notes with both keys. When it is set to "120fps" or lower, I have no problem with getting extra points from the big notes. This wouldn't be a problem if the input lag on the "120fps" and "VSync" didn't get so high. Getting perfect scores right now for me is essentially impossible or at least very awkward on certain maps. I could probably learn to make my way around it, but that doesn't sound too fun. Is anyone else having this problem?

Video or screenshot showing the problem:



osu! version: 20151228.2

Well, I noticed in Taiko, Screen tearing is a big problem when running higher fps. Idk if this is why you do worse or not.

It only makes sense running at lower fps (Which increases latency) would make you preform worse.

It's a weird spot. But it can't be fixed... Since it's not a problem with the game as far is I know.

Dntm8kmeeatu wrote:

Well, I noticed in Taiko, Screen tearing is a big problem when running higher fps. Idk if this is why you do worse or not.

It only makes sense running at lower fps (Which increases latency) would make you preform worse.

It's a weird spot. But it can't be fixed... Since it's not a problem with the game as far is I know.

The screen tearing also happens. Maybe it's connected.

I've done a lot of testing in the last month. I've figured out that I can work my way around this handicap without too much difficulty. Despite that, it is still worrying and strange that my frame limiter setting is still affecting my ability to get full points out of large notes in Taiko.

Dntm8kmeeatu stated that, since this is probably not a problem for everyone, my issue can not be fixed. The issue might not be a global bug, but it certainly is a technical issue on my side. This help forum is also for technical issues, not just for bugs. I don't know who moved this topic to "Resolved Issues," but this post shouldn't be here yet. This issue is still a problem in my game that I need help with fixing.

Anyway, the other main thing that I found is that the time window that I have to hit both keys at the same time for extra points seems to be directly affected by the frame time interval. For example, when I have a 120 fps cap on, the frame time interval is 8.4 ms. I'm not 100% sure, but this interval seems to be the same time interval that I am given to hit both notes at the "same" time. I have no idea why this would happen, but it would explain why the higher my fps is, the harder big notes become to hit. The way that I discovered this theory was through trying to play with a 240 fps cap for a extended period of time. I was able to hit the big notes, but it was much harder than with a 120 fps cap. This would make sense in my theory because the time interval would be 4.2 ms, or half of the time interval at 120 fps. Continuing up, I tried not using a frame cap which lowered my frame time interval to around 0.3 ms. I could NEVER hit a single big note correctly. If my theory is correct, that would make hitting big notes around 28 times harder to hit than with 120 fps. Which is practically impossible.

Again, please move this post out of "Resolved Issues." This issue is not resolved and I really would appreciate some help with it.

Thanks for reading and have a good day.

Threads that haven't been updated for 2 months get archived, which means they get [Archived] added to the title and get moved to the Resolved Issues sub-forum. This happens automatically. Anyway, moved it back.

As for your issue... I have absolutely no idea how big kat/dons work under the hood, so I can't say much about that, but it being harder to hit 2 keys simultaniously with a higher framerate sounds like normal behaviour to me. It's also the reason why high OD is harder to play with lower framerate. If you have 120fps you can only tap as precisely as 8.3ms, meaning that if each key press is 3ms apart it would be registered as being hit at the exact same time, while 1000fps would result in you being able to tap as precisely as 1ms, meaning that if each key press is 3ms apart they would be registered as 3ms apart.

/me bugs TVO with this to have a look at the code for now

Edit after bugging TVO about this: Hitting big kat/dons is lenient to 30ms to get bonus points. If that's the case that's way beyond the point where your framerate should affect your ability to get bonus points for them. Not sure what more to say.

Thanks for replying, VeilStar. I really appreciate it.

I figured that I might as well record a video of this problem to add more legitimacy to my claim. Who knows, it might reveal something to someone.



(The percentages are not scientific or accurate. I only took the first 33 big note hits into account simply because I don't have enough time right now. I can do a more in depth study in the future is someone thinks that I should.)

Dntm8kmeeatu wrote:

Maybe its all placebo, or maybe your equipment is faulty in some way?

Are you using a taiko drum, or keyboard?

I really doubt it is placebo that is causing the problem since it is consistently like this no matter what I do. A placebo effect may be in place to emphasize the problem, but that wouldn't be that big of a problem.

I use a keyboard.

So, the problem is still happening, but I just realized something pretty interesting. Even though the game still tells me that I didn't hit a big note, for some reason I still get the score of a big note. So, it seems to be almost entirely a visual problem, not a gameplay problem. The one thing that isn't just visual is that, on the online score screen, it still claims that I didn't hit any big notes. On the "Beginner" difficultly of this map, I have the exact same score as Northern (15th and 16th place) even though it says that he hit three big notes and that I hit none which doesn't make sense because we did everything else exactly same.

I really hope this new information will help the support team figure out this issue... If I need to be more clear or if I need to make a video demonstrating this new information, I will gladly comply.

Edit: Also, do you think that just reinstalling osu! will fix this? I have been avoiding doing that because I don't want to mess up and lose my maps (because I have all ranked maps).

Hey there! I seem to be having the same problem...
When I set the frame limiter to 120 fps there seems to be no problem hitting the big notes - however, then I get some kind of lag and a bit of screen tearing. When the frame limiter is at unlimited, there's no screen tearing, but the big notes are literally impossible to get. It's uh...rather frustrating. Are there any updates on the situation?

Tetsu_Jin wrote:

Hey there! I seem to be having the same problem...
When I set the frame limiter to 120 fps there seems to be no problem hitting the big notes - however, then I get some kind of lag and a bit of screen tearing. When the frame limiter is at unlimited, there's no screen tearing, but the big notes are literally impossible to get. It's uh...rather frustrating. Are there any updates on the situation?

Sadly, there aren't any updates or fixes to this problem yet. The great news is that, since you are experiencing this, someone finally has the same problem as me! That means that the mods can now justifiably move this post out of resolved and into confirmed and, because of that, the post will get more attention from the community (I hope).

Oh, I'm relieved people are still active here!
Hopefully someone will look into it, because it feels like I'm missing out some of the taiko experience. I've tried messing around with quite a few settings on my laptop and nothing seems to be working. Could it just be our monitors? Or maybe I'm just missing something?

Tetsu_Jin wrote:

Oh, I'm relieved people are still active here!
Hopefully someone will look into it, because it feels like I'm missing out some of the taiko experience. I've tried messing around with quite a few settings on my laptop and nothing seems to be working. Could it just be our monitors? Or maybe I'm just missing something?

I've done a lot and I still can't seem to find the cause of this issue, but I will keep trying.

I have a 60hz ASUS VH236H monitor, what about you?

Sleepteiner wrote:

Tetsu_Jin wrote:

Oh, I'm relieved people are still active here!
Hopefully someone will look into it, because it feels like I'm missing out some of the taiko experience. I've tried messing around with quite a few settings on my laptop and nothing seems to be working. Could it just be our monitors? Or maybe I'm just missing something?

I've done a lot and I still can't seem to find the cause of this issue, but I will keep trying.

I have a 60hz ASUS VH236H monitor, what about you?

Ah, i have an ASUS too My laptop is a GL552VW - and it's really recent one too, so I'm not sure why it's going all weird like this...
My specs are really good, so I wonder what is it we need to change. Ahhh, it's just so frustrating...
When I watch replays, I see the big notes being hit, despite the fact I can't see a thing when I play myself.

Hello,

i'm glad i found this thread, because i'm having the same issues.

i just recently noticed that i can't hit Big notes at all. i played all the time with unlimited FPS and got around 2600-3500 FPS, after i found this thread here, i tried changing my FPS limiter and with Vsync (what changed my fps to 144) i could finally hit big notes again.

Playing with 120 and 240 fps cap is not possible for me, cause of a lot of screen-tearing but with Vsync i do not get so strong tearing and it is atleast playable.

after some testing in a map i created. i can say:

1. you still get the points for hitting big notes even tho it is not showing a double hit.
   
2. Hitting at Highfps is away harder i needed 5 trys to clear my map with 100% at Vsync and 150 trys to clear it with 100% at unlimited (3000+ fps)(maybe it was me failing, but it really feels harder to hit big notes without hitting them that they give you only 50% points

Screenshot


i will be playing at Vsync for now i guess.

Stynero wrote:

Hello,

i'm glad i found this thread, because i'm having the same issues.

i just recently noticed that i can't hit Big notes at all. i played all the time with unlimited FPS and got around 2600-3500 FPS, after i found this thread here, i tried changing my FPS limiter and with Vsync (what changed my fps to 144) i could finally hit big notes again.

Playing with 120 and 240 fps cap is not possible for me, cause of a lot of screen-tearing but with Vsync i do not get so strong tearing and it is atleast playable.

after some testing in a map i created. i can say:

1. you still get the points for hitting big notes even tho it is not showing a double hit.
   
2. Hitting at Highfps is away harder i needed 5 trys to clear my map with 100% at Vsync and 150 trys to clear it with 100% at unlimited (3000+ fps)(maybe it was me failing, but it really feels harder to hit big notes without hitting them that they give you only 50% points

Screenshot

SPOILER

i will be playing at Vsync for now i guess.

Thank you for posting the details about your side of the issue. I am also experiencing everything that you listed in your post. I do hope that this problem will be fixed soon.

I am not currently playing Taiko, but when I go back to SS farming in Taiko, I plan on just using the unlimited frame limiter. In my opinion now, I feel that being able to get high accuracy easier is more important than automatically knowing whether or not I hit the big note correctly. Also, it's not like this bug makes it impossible to get the score from the big notes, it is just harder for the game to recognize it as a correctly hit big note. Despite that, I am still going to stay updated on this issue in order to help the osu! staff be able to fix it. I am also still going to post about new findings and information about this bug, which is what this post is really about.

This issue is actually more widespread than I once thought. According to n1doking, "it seems to depend on keyboards and frame limit." We already knew about frame limiters, but what is says about keyboards is new to me, "keyboards for how they send keypresses to computer to osu."

nidoking uses unlimited frame limiter, but he says that he doesn't currently have this problem. Although, when he uses a Razer Blackwidow keyboard, he says that the game only recognizes the big notes about half of the time.

So, now we know that, for n1doking, unlimited frame limiter combined with the Razer Blackwidow keyboard makes it harder, but not impossible, for the game to recognize big notes. I use the SteelSeries 6G v2 USB Mechanical Keyboard with Cherry MX Red switches and when I combine that with the unlimited frame limiter, it is practically impossible for the game to recognize big note hits.

If you are experiencing this issue in any way, it would be very helpful if you could make a post in this thread stating the type of keyboard that you are using, and how similar your experiences are to what has been described in this post and/or to what n1doking has said about his experience with the Razer Blackwidow keyboard.

Writing this post will hopefully do two things. First, it might be able to provide some needed information to the osu! staff. Second, we can start putting some focus onto keyboards in this forum thread.

Thank you for reading my post!

Yeah, I noticed that the large notes aren't registering as a successful dual hit almost every time even though I can hear my keys both click at once when I'm using Unlimited. With 120fps, it does register a dual hit for almost each large note.

Is it just Cutting-Edge, or is it happening in Stable, as well?

dtnc21 wrote:

Yeah, I noticed that the large notes aren't registering as a successful dual hit almost every time even though I can hear my keys both click at once when I'm using Unlimited. With 120fps, it does register a dual hit for almost each large note.

Is it just Cutting-Edge, or is it happening in Stable, as well?

This is happening in the Stable build for me and has been for a pretty long time.

There is a chance that it is at least partially linked to the keyboard being used. Which keyboard are you using when this issue is happening? Knowing that information will be helpful in figuring out what is causing this issue and how to, hopefully, fix it.

Thanks for helping out with this glitch thread.

You could refrain from double posting
Just edit your latest post, to prevent from posts adding up

I am experiencing lag spikes every time I hit one of the drum keys in Taiko, though you really need to spam them to notice. I'm on 240 FPS, beta.

Kao wrote:

You could refrain from double posting
Just edit your latest post, to prevent from posts adding up

While I do agree with you for the most part, I feel like if a post is many days/weeks after the previous one and if that post has a new and different focus that is described in a wall of text, then I think that a new post would be acceptable because it emphasizes that new focus. If that is wrong or against the rules, then I will not do that from now on.

abraker wrote:

I am experiencing lag spikes every time I hit one of the drum keys in Taiko, though you really need to spam them to notice. I'm on 240 FPS, beta.

I'm not entirely sure that what you are experiencing is necessarily related to the lack of visual registration for big notes for some people, but what you said might be helpful nonetheless. Thanks for your post!

Sleepteiner wrote:

...

There is a chance that it is at least partially linked to the keyboard being used. Which keyboard are you using when this issue is happening? Knowing that information will be helpful in figuring out what is causing this issue and how to, hopefully, fix it.

...

Right now, I'm just using the default keyboard on my laptop (Inspiron 15 5000 Series). I don't know how this would help, though.

Kao wrote:

You could refrain from double posting
Just edit your latest post, to prevent from posts adding up

This rule only applies if it's been about a few minutes to about a few days. Otherwise, it's fine to bump the thread with new information even if you made the last post.

I have same problem, tested it on Stable, Fallback and CE builds, all of them have the same issue with big note timings, I'm using laptop and I thought it's happening because of my graphic card, I tried switching from discrete (GeForce 930m) to integrated one (Intel HD something), but it didn't help (however I got a FPS boost from that). I also thought it may be ghosting, but changing keybinds didn't help either, also there wasn't any ghosting (I'm using laptop keyboard).

But when I enabled VSync, getting that fancy animation from properly hit big notes became much easier, however it's impossible to play with VSync for me since it adds some noticeable input lag that makes keeping the accuracy a torture. I tried to use different FPS values and with lower FPS it was much easier to hit big notes properly compared to higher one.

Weird thing is I'm still getting full score from big notes even if the animation of proper dual hit isn't shown, I did the same tests Stynero did, and I could confirm score is given properly. So it may be not a problem for gameplay but seeing the properly hit notes would make the playing experience more pleasant, so I hope it gets fixed.

So after watching over this thread for a bit (ignore my earlier posts, I don't agree with them)

This seems to only be a animation error? Score is still properly given, just the animation doesn't work at higher or non synced framerates for some odd reason?

Please correct me if I'm understanding this issue wrong.

Seems like it. But also this might be an issue for those who want to get the max score possible but can't track the properly hit big notes.

…Confirmed?

Dntm8kmeeatu wrote:

This seems to only be a animation error?

I'm not completely sure what an "animation error" refers to in the osu! code, but if this was only a visual issue, then why would the game not recognize those big notes correctly? Even though the max amount of points can still be obtained with this issue, the game does not think that a big note has been hit correctly. Even the scores on the online scoreboards say that no big notes had been hit when the max score had been given. Most of this problem is probably related to simple animation, but there also appears to be some element of a recognition issue as well. Although, I don't know the details of how the osu! program works, so I may just be misunderstanding your point.

Thanks for coming back to this thread either way!

Sleepteiner wrote:

Dntm8kmeeatu wrote:

This seems to only be a animation error?

I'm not completely sure what an "animation error" refers to in the osu! code, but if this was only a visual issue, then why would the game not recognize those big notes correctly? Even though the max amount of points can still be obtained with this issue, the game does not think that a big note has been hit correctly. Even the scores on the online scoreboards say that no big notes had been hit when the max score had been given. Most of this problem is probably related to simple animation, but there also appears to be some element of a recognition issue as well. Although, I don't know the details of how the osu! program works, so I may just be misunderstanding your point.
Thanks for coming back to this thread either way!

So the score calculation and outcome is "Correct" but it counts the specifics of what notes you "hit" and displays them incorrectly?

Dntm8kmeeatu wrote:

...

So the score calculation and outcome is "Correct" but it counts the specifics of what notes you "hit" and displays them incorrectly?

I'd assume that's the case at this point.

This Problem is well known as far as i know

Before that:
When hitting a note it will display a 300hit 100hit or miss or 300bighit or 100bighit
when hitting a big hit osu will wait for a second hit after the first but already display the hit after the first hit
btw the acc of a big hit is evalued from the first hit not the middle of them

The problem:

I noticed this too but its as someone else said just an animation or more like a logical error since if you hit the note it will display the hit but hitting big notes also registers the second hit and when the second hit is like 10ms(which depending on OD i think still counts as hit) after the first hit of the big don, it will already have displayed the hit and cant display another hit where you hit the second time

So basically:
The Hit displays incorrectly due to timing issues
but it still counts mostly(depending on how far the hits are apart)

The hit will be displayed right if you hit both hits in the same frame

How i found out about it:
I enabled the score meter(bottom middle) and set it to as big as possible
then i tried hitting a few big Notes with different timing like perfect so it will actually display and the hits were probably closer than 2ms and ones that didnt display correctly with aove 5ms i got the points from both big dons (double points)

Conclusion:

This is an issue that cant be fixed since it would refrain the game from displaying hits correctly at all(it would mean displaying the hits 30 ms(or idk the time span for a big dons after you actually hit them)

Dntm8kmeeatu wrote:

So the score calculation and outcome is "Correct" but it counts the specifics of what notes you "hit" and displays them incorrectly?

Yea, that is my understanding of the issue.

Also, animexamera, thanks for that detailed explanation of the issue. I appreciate your input!

Sleepteiner wrote:

Dntm8kmeeatu wrote:

So the score calculation and outcome is "Correct" but it counts the specifics of what notes you "hit" and displays them incorrectly?

Yea, that is my understanding of the issue.

Also, animexamera, thanks for that detailed explanation of the issue. I appreciate your input!

You are Welcome, this is a major problem we all have to deal with earlier or later.
As well i am sorry for the bad english xD

Surprisingly enough, but after getting a mechanical numpad I became able to hit more big notes compared to laptop keyboard. Like, sometimes i get 10-20 big notes hit properly where i could get 1 or 2 max with laptop keyboard and ~300 fps. And I doubt that USB numpad would have something like 60hz refresh rate, since I don't have any timing issues with it while playing standard mode.

Kyubey wrote:

Surprisingly enough, but after getting a mechanical numpad I became able to hit more big notes compared to laptop keyboard. Like, sometimes i get 20-30 big notes hit properly where i could get 1 or 2 max with laptop keyboard and ~300 fps. And I doubt that USB numpad would have something like 60hz refresh rate, since I don't have any timing issues with it while playing standard mode.

You might just be better on your mechanical
Try enabling scoremeter and set it to bottom mid and max size
It will show you pretty much how exactly you hit the notes (orange is miss, green is 100 and blue is 300)
You will also notive that the hand you hit with first is the one that counts for acc(wirh big notes) and you can experiment with how far off you need to hit the second time for it not to be a successful hit (or at least not a displayed one)

Other than that it might be osu is running smoother or idk sothat it displays all successful big hits not only the ones that you saw during gameplay (i have this issue)

:thinking:

curse you archiving

Dntm8kmeeatu wrote:

:thinking:

curse you archiving

Oh shoot, I didn't realize that assigned threads could be archived, my bad. I'll make sure to bump the thread if it gets close to being archived again without being confirmed.

Anti-archiving bump.

I never saw this thread before, but I know a lot about the cause of the issue, so I can contribute some information and things I've noticed.

This bug only affects the numbers in the right column for taiko, the Geki/Katu which is supposed to determine how many big notes you've hit, and doesn't affect gameplay at all. These numbers are completely broken. Gameplay is unaffected because the game will still give you credit for hitting a big note with both keys if the two keys are pressed within a small ms window. However this won't be counted as a Geki/Katu despite getting the full score (if a normal note gives 300 points and a finisher gives you 600, you would get 300 points twice).

You only get a Geki/Katu if your keypresses were on the same input frame. If you get 60fps, they will probably always be recorded correctly since you have a 16.67ms window. If you get 2000fps, then you have a window of 0.5ms, which means you'll very rarely have them recorded as being on the exact same frame.

An interesting thing is that this is also keyboard-dependent. Certain keyboards, mainly cheaper membrane ones, need to be sure of which keys you are pressing when you press multiple at the same time, because they don't have separate switches for each key. Because of their polling rates and how they have to check the signals, the output keypresses are usually sent at the exact same time, even if you pressed one key 1ms before the other. So if you use a membrane keyboard, you will usually have all finishers be recorded correctly. Mechanical keyboards with separate switches for each key don't have this problem, so players who use mechanical keyboards will rarely have finishers be recorded if they play at a high enough framerate.

I'm not sure how you could go about fixing the Geki/Katu numbers because in reality you aren't getting double score for the finishers, you're getting the normal amount of score twice. It adds up to the same score, but those numbers are completely meaningless for now.

since this kinda fits in here and it's a minor enough issue, i thought i'd post this video in here of something else i just learned about with the finishers

you actually get double the normal HP if your note isn't registered as a finisher, as shown in the video below. this is due to the note being counted as hit twice instead of just once.



i could make a bug report thread on this but it's probably going to be fixed in lazer not a big enough issue to affect anything

Oh, interesting! Thanks for the new info, Catgirl!

I think I'm a little late xd but hey, I think it goes without saying that I have the same problem. and after reading all the responses on this forum ... the only thing I didn't understand was what the catgirl player wanted to explain with his video. I am relatively new to osu, I think maybe that's why there was something I didn't understand. Please let someone here stay alive and explain to me.

In the first play of that video, Catgirl hit the first finisher with both keys, giving him enough HP to pass.

In the second play, he hit the finisher with only one key, which didn't give enough HP causing him to fail at the end of the map.

In the third play, he switches keyboards to one that doesn't have the finisher input issue and demonstrates that, normally, the HP shouldn't double with a two key finisher hit.

Sleepteiner wrote:

In the first play of that video, Catgirl hit the first finisher with both keys, giving him enough HP to pass.

In the second play, he hit the finisher with only one key, which didn't give enough HP causing him to fail at the end of the map.

In the third play, he switches keyboards to one that doesn't have the finisher input issue and demonstrates that, normally, the HP shouldn't double with a two key finisher hit.

I already understood xd thank you very much :3*