I'm telling you we need od9 for the pp :^)

Lool I asked for help so I brought a group of memers... Still gonna wait to talk with Regraz

Holy kocari i love you

Hey before this get ranked:


Twist

1. The high spacing in all this diff is really annoying to play in no mod with the current AR, use something like minimun 8,5 - 8,8 , for example stuff like: 02:26:513 (6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - 02:48:170 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - etc basically the whole diff, spacing is questionable there are alot of jumps that doesn't fit the song, anyways my main issue is the super low AR
2. Combo color 5 is too dark and a bit hard to see with your current BG, also when you use full dim.
3. Why the stack leniency isn't the same at every diff? atleast at the hardest one, for example I see similar stack patterns at Insane and Twist diff, so I don't see the logic of having different setting at each diff if they are using similar patterns.
4. OD is super high for this BPM and the way you map it, something like 7,5~
5. Spacing is really questionable and a lot of jumps don't fit the song, but only my opinion, I guess. The Insane diff is really nice tho! GJ

I don't know if Ascendance is going to qualify a standard map in their first icon.. anyways GL with this

Edit:

@Ascendance, no, just wondering, since I never saw you modding standard, but if gero and regratz are teaching u, then should be fine

Natsu wrote:

I don't know if Ascendance is going to qualify a standard map in their first icon.. anyways GL with this

I don't plan on qualifying it blindly, but Gero and Regraz have been teaching me a bit and this seems mostly safe, so they've been helping me through it. If it's a big deal, I won't qualify it though, Natsu, just let me know.

Natsu wrote:

@Ascendance, no, just wondering, since I never saw you modding standard

I wonder why /s

-Mo- wrote:

Natsu wrote:

@Ascendance, no, just wondering, since I never saw you modding standard

I wonder why /s

no need to /s im shit at standard modding, that's why I'm learning

big fan

So much wanton activity in here good Lord.

Kocari wrote:

[Twist]

00:26:413 (1) - Whistle sliderslide really destroys that bass hold on the instruments. Leaving this empty sounds better imp All right
00:36:913 (1) - blanket could be slightly neater Adjusted this as per Ascendance IRC
00:38:226 (7) - You can space this out, would be pretty cool to start the stream with spacing and then end the stream with the same spacing. Consistency is pretty nice here Adjusted for consistency
00:41:070 (1,2,3,4) - Not going to lie, for a pretty chill area these are pretty exaggerated since 2.4 spacing is ridiculous I think it's fine since this part always sounded louder to me than its surroundings
00:42:164 (1) - Also could've blanketed with 00:41:289 (2) - like previously on your other stuff Eh, the time distance gap discourages me from blanketing this
00:55:727 (4) - Spacing is higher here now I don't like diff spikes, I don't believe in them for the most part. The entire kiai is just a massive explosion compared to the rest of the map if I don't introduce some higher spacing in the beginning, and even if the music somewhat justifies it, it's hell on Earth to play if there's no indications of jumps at the start.
00:57:914 (1) - You have a lot of these sliders with a lot of white anchor points even something like this would've done the same thing http://puu.sh/p6FEO/09e032ade9.jpg I'm extremely picky over what my wave sliders look like, apologies for the point spam.
01:01:415 (1) - How about moving to x:247 y:3 looks clean without looking like it's touching the stream http://puu.sh/p6FIC/9086e3c366.jpg Sure
01:02:727 (4) - Same as above with spacing As above.
01:08:852 (2,3,4,5) - Doesn't seem great to me, a pattern like this and then have a curved slider in the middle doesn't seem appealing, you could make patterns here, just some random shit http://puu.sh/p6FNV/5f7ee2b276.jpg I don't really want an inconsistency in the jump patterns, the back and forth is an integral part of the build up, the sharp angled jumps play their part in the kiai.
01:13:009 (5) - Spacing is now ever bigger
01:15:853 (2,3,4,5,6,1,2) - Oh man pp Oh get off
01:33:354 (2,3,4,5,6) - So much jumps The pitch increases!
01:50:417 (1) - Please same as above with these white anchor points Bah, the shape isn't quite right without them >.<
01:51:292 (2,3,4) - ^
01:59:167 (4,5) - ^
02:00:918 (1) - You also don't need the middle white anchor http://puu.sh/p6FUd/3cfaddc9a8.jpg It could've been like this and have the same effect http://puu.sh/p6FVD/bb2178778a.jpg This was adjusted as per Ascendance's wishes
02:10:981 (5) - Spacing is closer than previously 02:09:230 (3,4) - if these had nice spacing playing would feel nice Done
02:28:919 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - Holy
02:46:420 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Sweet
02:48:170 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3) - Jesus man When I first mapped this, I literally planned out the rising spacing bit by bit and then when it grew to stupidly mammoth proportions I didn't really want to redo the whole thing, so it was basically a "Welp, time to make an Insane too"
Some of these jumps even in the calm parts feel like everything from Kiai, tbh slightly spaced but I guess it's ok. The whole difficulty is based on the jumping, would be a pity if it had to be strangled down

[Insane]

00:22:913 (1) - Same with sliders as above in the last diff on anchors Again, I'm incredibly picky when it comes to waves, 5 points isn't really enough for me
00:24:663 (1) - Same as ^
00:26:413 (1) - Same, whistle is kind of meh, Changed
00:28:163 (1) - Doesn't make sense, the angled slider doesn't feel this sharp, could ease it down a bit imo Toned down a bit
00:33:413 (1) - Same with whistle as ^
00:34:069 (1,2,3) - Pretty close to the last slider, placing this different would give you more room to create stuff here. It visually doesn't look good having sliders this close together What with it being in the middle of the next one, I think it's fine.
00:44:570 (2) - Why note like this? http://puu.sh/p6GaA/ef9e13bd6b.jpg Reverse flow is better for kickslider here
00:46:539 (3,4,5,6) - What is this? Why did this come out of nowhere so quickly It's mapped to the..... whatever you call it, the panicky noise.
00:52:227 (5) - You can stack it'll be pretty nice All right
00:55:070 (1) - Same as ^ could be more like this http://puu.sh/p6GdX/e3a576c1c7.jpg since it really plays a lot better Ehh, based on my own experiences with kickslider play and how it's better to leave a gap between it and the next note, since a kickslider doesn't behave like a stream, the counter flow was intentional here.
00:58:789 (3) - Sitting behind a slider like this seems kinda strange, I usually would expect it to be more like this like how other people do it http://puu.sh/p6GfE/8deff51740.jpg It does seem a bit strange I know, but this was how FCL suggested it to me and I thought it looked marvellous
01:12:353 (2,3,4,5) - Just as spaced as your hardest diff It's still an Insane after all, the Twist has buttloads more of these
01:15:853 (2,3,4,5) - You could've made this the same imo, idk what this does since (5) is spaced out more than (3) but the top portion stays consistent, rather awkward I'm not fully understanding, but do you mean that the pattern's shape makes 5 further away in relation to 4 and 6 from their respective positions? The extended play is intentional, not sure 100% what the reference here is.
01:17:603 (3) - Random SV change, is this note the same type of slider you put a whistle on and NC it? Otherwise if it's not it's pretty awkward Originally this was NC'd and gray all by itself, like in Twist, but it was on the strong advice of Pereira006 that I make the whole combo gray instead of just the slider, for some reasons. The whistles are removed as per every other one.
02:19:075 (4) - This sudden stop after this slider is pretty weird, I would suggest to extend this a little more, really utilizes the finish and moves onto the next notes which feels better The stop here was fully intended, that sudden offbeat drum which required the sliderend and finish is only represented twice and the suddenness comes with that.
02:24:981 (6) - Usually you'd stack this, idk why the change In stacked view, this is perfectly stacked, whereas if I perfect stack it in non stacked view it looks rubbish in-game
02:25:419 (1) - There's a beat here you can map out as well There... is a beat there already? Perhaps I am misunderstanding
02:39:419 (1,2,3) - Can space it all out a little more, almost touching looks bad http://puu.sh/p6GrW/b9d9d832d2.jpg Agreed

[Hard]

00:45:664 (1) - Doesn't look quite nice Gah what's with everyone's downer on these, I think they have a nice flourish
00:52:664 (1) - Same as ^ such an awkward slider Bah, humbug. I disagree strongly B_B
00:52:664 (1,3) - Also why no copy pasta? Oh dear... this actually was a copy/pasta, but if the last sliderpoint isn't close to the middle then the flipping ruins the copied slider. Fixed.
01:15:853 (2,3,4,5,6) - Is this really hard? Feels something a light insane my consist of At this BPM I really think it is fine, plus there's the advanced diff as well.
01:23:291 (1,2,3) - This is strange pattern, you can make triangles pattern like you did before Ascendance mentioned this too, forgot to update after his IRC
02:24:106 (2,3,4,5,6) - Hard diff?
02:46:420 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Really? Yes, quite. As someone who played Hards for a very long time and still does occasionally, I can safely say that a fully DS'd Hard is really among the worst things that can be done. There's a lot of room for pushing out the rigid rules of Normals and Easies, and there's good reason for that - you want an intermediary diff between the crazy diverse world of Insanes and the comparatively tight knit squad of Normals. For that, you need to make the Hard diverse in how it works. The spread has to make sense. With the Insane and the Twist being based entirely around spacing changes and their relation to the map, the Hard needs to have some of these elements as well, or else the spread is left with a large gap.

[Advanced]

00:54:414 (1) - Can blanket tbh Adjusted this a bit
00:56:164 (1) - Slider in here too It's like a velvet curtain ;_;
01:29:853 (2,3,4,5) - I don't really like this pattern even something like this is quite nice http://puu.sh/p6GLo/ce6cc0766a.jpg Hmm to preserve symmetry and also to make it clear that intensity rises, hence why 01:33:354 (2,3,4,5,6) - is the same shape but all circles.
02:28:919 (1,2,3,4) - Strange square pattern into the (5) slider Changed position of "5" as per Ascendance mod
02:52:983 (6) - Can figure out a way to blanket with (1) it'll look really nice Sure, done.

Rest are ok
Appreciate the mod, if it seemed like I was being a bit long-winded in my explanations on why I didn't implement certain things, I think experienced modders who know their stuff would need more convincing, hence the large texts Quality mod, impressive.

Kibbleru wrote:

wtf is this
01:53:042 (4) -

kds pls


this map doesnt give enough pp. its not safe to rank

Not sure if pure joke or if there is something at that timestamp in one of the diffs, I thought of several things it could be but not quite sure.... Also enough about the pp already this map is rubbish for pp

Sotarks wrote:

pls moar pp to be safe

You're worse than Warpyc

Warpyc wrote:

I'm telling you we need od9 for the pp :^)

YOU.

Ascendance wrote:

Lool I asked for help so I brought a group of memers... Still gonna wait to talk with Regraz My thread, thou hast railroaded it >:

Holy kocari i love you <---- Agree

Natsu wrote:

Hey before this get ranked:


Twist

1. The high spacing in all this diff is really annoying to play in no mod with the current AR, use something like minimun 8,5 - 8,8 , for example stuff like: 02:26:513 (6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - 02:48:170 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - etc basically the whole diff, spacing is questionable there are alot of jumps that doesn't fit the song, anyways my main issue is the super low AR
2. Combo color 5 is too dark and a bit hard to see with your current BG, also when you use full dim. Made it slightly lighter
3. Why the stack leniency isn't the same at every diff? atleast at the hardest one, for example I see similar stack patterns at Insane and Twist diff, so I don't see the logic of having different setting at each diff if they are using similar patterns. Made Twist and Insane same SL
4. OD is super high for this BPM and the way you map it, something like 7,5~
5. Spacing is really questionable and a lot of jumps don't fit the song, but only my opinion, I guess. The Insane diff is really nice tho! GJ

About the OD, Warpyc may be messing around a little but believe it or not it was set to 9/8.5 at different points in time, but maps such as Gargantia have convinced me that 8.5 is pure rubbish with low BPM jumpy maps and an unnecessary pain for nomod, DT is irrelevant. That said, 7.5 is really far too low for this, people have learned to acc somewhat over the last 4 years, OD 8 is the most standard value for nearly all Insanes - and this is the difficulty above the Insane. SR nonwithstanding it is meant to be played by people who have graduated from the lower end of the Insane spectrum (hence why Insane is OD 7 - low BPM Insanes are a challenge for the newer Insane players but more experienced players shouldn't find 8 overly difficult at this range). FrostxE even suggested OD 9 at one point.

As for spacing.... I am happy that you like the Insane difficulty but it is with some dismay that I note this, because Insane was the filler diff that was created out of necessity. More planning did go into that one, since after all it was created for spread and needed to act a certain way, but the Twist diff is the original incarnation (bumped up the difficulty after the creation of Insane, it's true) and the one that was mapped with most "gut instinct" regarding the spacing. I don't really subscribe to "the feelings of the song must be represented not just the music! Art! blah blah blah expressionism!" but as a difficulty above Insane I suppose it had to be a little overdone regardless, and the massive intensity spike of the song really does give a lot of room for madness (in my opinion) even if you leave out the source material and connotations of the song itself.

EDIT: Forgot AR
The thing about the AR here is, I know a massively spaced map like this sort of demands an approach rate higher than what would otherwise be normal for a map of this speed and BPM. That said, considering that the map isn't even 140 BPM and despite the spacing, really isn't that quick, I'm extremely reluctant to put anything above 8.2/3 on it. I'm an enormous stickler over decimal values in the AR, they have to be perfect or else there's no point deviating from integers. I tested many different combinations of OD/AR on this map, from 8.5/9 to 7/8 and the best compromise I could achieve was that AR 8 was a smidge too slow but 8.5 was just a bit too high to be comfortable with the map speed. Hence why 8.2 is the current value set to the OD of 8 (expanded above). It may seem a bit slow but my personal feelings on this was that AR 8 was actually fine, it took many playtesters to convince me that the majority of players find it too slow and bump it up to 8.2 - 8.5 seems slightly ridiculous and panders just a bit too much to the "higher AR for reading" mindset for my tastes. You're not the first or probably the last to mention this I'm sure but it can't be worked both ways, it'll always be too fast or too slow for somebody D=


I don't know if Ascendance is going to qualify a standard map in their first icon.. anyways GL with this

Edit:

@Ascendance, no, just wondering, since I never saw you modding standard, but if gero and regratz are teaching u, then should be fine

Thanks for taking a look, I appreciate it!

BUBBLE POPPED

I didn't need convincing my instincts tell me it's ready for rank. Some ideas I personally don't agree with but its your mapping. Go tell ascendance to rank it now. It should be fine I bet my money on it plus I understood everything you mapped and every idea you created with every single intention you thought of, just wanted to point out the hate you are about to receive once it's qualified as a heads up

Kocari wrote:

I didn't need convincing my instincts tell me it's ready for rank. Some ideas I personally don't agree with but its your mapping. Go tell ascendance to rank it now. It should be fine I bet my money on it plus I understood everything you mapped and every idea you created with every single intention you thought of, just wanted to point out the hate you are about to receive once it's qualified as a heads up

Thanks, I appreciate your words very much! Yeah I know the spacing isn't going to be everyone's favorite chore, but what do, nothing's perfect eh.

Almost ;-;

I still find your current AR too low for what the map is, 8,5 play perfectly imo, if you insist to keep your current value, then get more opinions from other BNs and QATs, because I find your current AR setting really unfitting, it plays nice on DT, but in no mod is really uncomfortable.

All right, 8.5 it is.

Its been clear since the start that arf intended and made it very clear that he wants the map to be ar8, he hasnt budged at all when people has asked for change so far, I think its kind of a dick move to somewhat force him to change it if he wants it ranked.

Warpyc wrote:

Its been clear since the start that arf intended and made it very clear that he wants the map to be ar8, he hasnt budged at all when people has asked for change so far, I think its kind of a dick move to somewhat force him to change it if he wants it ranked.

Who is forcing him? show me where is the ¨change or not icon¨? don't be dramatic, I made a suggestion and asked him for more opinions about the current setting and I think 2 BNs also told him that 8,5 is better, so please don't make a healthy discussion in something else, thanks.
I intended to rank my first map with AR10 OD 3, but that doesn't means those were the best settings lol.


Anyways glad to see you changed it and again Gl with this.

I also agree with 8.5 it's also to negate the easiness when played in DT. It's to keep the hungry hungry hippos away. Needed more speed to be able to grasp the jumps

Just a few thoughts.
If I'm honest, I don't really play DT and I don't know how maps play with DT. I can't read AR 9.6 or 10 or 10.3 or whatever. 8.5 just feels really fast to me nomod. I only changed it because multiple people said it would be better with nomod (I disagree but we'll get to that) but if one of the main reasons for changing it is to sort of bump the DT difficulty then that's not really good enough for me Maps are designed (for the most part) to be played nomod and how they play under mod combinations is either a happy accident or a travesty depending on a number of things. Sure, it's nice to be aware of these things sometimes, for example keeping the HP drain a bit lower so the map is playable with HR, but overall nomod is what should decide how a map plays.

I'm aware that both Natsu and Kocari (whose opinions I do respect) believe the map plays better nomod with 8.5 (I noted the "also" in Kocari's post) and I believe Gero also thinks this. I really enjoy playing AR 8, it's a pleasure to read and there's no describing the sweet spot when you get the accuracy just right. (hell, Satellite maps are a good example, Kataomoi no Bigaku is 160 BPM but the AR 8 triple infested nightmare is just delicious, against all odds) This map originally was AR 8, and I thought it was fine, the song isn't even 140 BPM, all of that jazz. After a buttload of "just a bit higher than 8, pleeeeease" I conceded that 8 wasn't comfortable for the majority of normal players considering the enormous spacing and 8.2/3 was good enough for me. Can't just map for yourself after all, or else there's no point in trying to rank things. 8.5? Well when it was first suggested yesterday I tested the map again with different ARs and came to a "meh" conclusion. I don't like 8.5. I hate 8.5 as a matter of fact. It's a weird compromise between read-testing (8) and ease of play (9) that doesn't end up satisfying anybody and is best left alone. Still I changed it, because when two BNs and an extremely experienced modder are telling you something, it's downright hubris to shrug it off without thinking it through. You are one of a thousand people who will play this map, somebody's gotta think of them too.

So why go to the trouble of writing all of this? Well, my thread, but also, the OD. Along with AR 8.5 I was suggested OD 7/7.5 .....seriously? It's 4.62* and there's a lower Insane, 8 is the bare minimum that should be tossed on to the difficulty purely out of these truths. FrostxE suggested 9, even. Sure, every map must be judged on its own merits, blah blah, but suggesting an OD lower than 8 on this map only makes sense for one reason, and that is to make the map anti-farmy. I'm not blind. 14-15 people (even within this thread) have expressed in very clear words how much glorious pp this map will be worth if it's ever ranked blah blah blah. Yes there's a growing epidemic of maps which abuse Tom's system to be overrated in their weighting. Yes this map is a low BPM jump fest which makes it similar to those maps. Obviously, the solution to this growing epidemic is to take every map that can be a potential agricultural bumper crop and dumb it down in any way possible so that its bountiful nature is smushed. What drivel. I may have mixed feelings about some of Bauxe's words, but to paraphrase a quote of his, "mapping for pp is stupid, but mapping against pp is just as bad, if not worse. Some songs just don't work in other ways, what are you going to do."

AR 8.5 makes the map better nomod for most people. Sure, I can accept that. But please don't try to tell me lower OD does the same thing, because nomod OD 8 on this is far from high, it's basically a non issue. There is no justifiable reason (for me) that this difficulty, above Insane, should have any OD nerf for any possible nomod reason. It doesn't make sense. Any player that can't handle OD 8 wouldn't be able to handle the spacing to begin with. Hence, Insane. If you don't like the overdone nature of the map, I can respect that, but throwing out the baby with the bath water sort of defeats the purpose to begin with. Good day.

EDIT: Apparently I may have misunderstood some things and there was some confusion over which difficulty was being discussed, but guess OD 8 is fine for now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Since the map seemed fine to me when I checked, and I looked over some things over and over again, I see no reason to keep this set popped. However, I'd really advise the next nominator to take a really close look at the jumps on the highest diff and consider things more deeper, especially since the difficulty is under some consideration right now. My experience in standard gets me this far, but I hope someone with a more trained eye can follow this up

Bubbled~ /o/

everthing look good, let's try it !

qualify

Gratz Arfy! \:D/

Congrats! About time, from all the adventures this map has.. umm.. given you :^)

Congratulations!

omedeto

omedetou~

ayyy congratz :3
now i can farm pp XD

Gratzz :3

Graziaaaaaaaaaaaaa! ~

We made it! thanks everyone

Fear no nightly noise!

nice successful rank~

Congtraz America!"#!"#!"#!"#!"#!"#!"#!"#!"#!"#!"#!"

Gratz Arf <3

ayy <3

Funny & Creppy, I Love it! :3

Congratulations Arf!