[Rule Modification] Uninherited and Inherited Timing Section

Tari

osu! Alumni

1,671 posts

Joined July 2012

Topic Starter

Tari 2016-01-01T01:44:35+00:00

I would like to propose a slight addition to this rule :

No two uninherited or two inherited timing sections should be placed at the same point. An inherited timing section may be placed on an uninherited timing section (but only to change the slider speed). Having two uninherited or two inherited sections on top of each other will cause problems within the beatmap.

To something like this :

No two uninherited or two inherited timing sections should be placed at the same point. An inherited timing section may be placed on an uninherited timing section (but only to change the slider speed). Having two uninherited or two inherited sections on top of each other will cause problems within the beatmap. The stacked uninherited and inherited timing section should have the same volume and sampleset settings to prevent any conflicts.

I never understood why the stacked timing sections needed different settings in the first place. People can get confused to which section is playing even if the inherited timing section is focused upon.

Yuii-

2,501 posts

Joined July 2013

Yuii- 2016-01-01T01:48:21+00:00

I thought this was already known. I mean, a lot of maps got DQ'd for having different volume/samplesets on their (un)inherited timing sections.

Supporting this if needed.

Sonnyc

7,761 posts

Joined June 2008

Sonnyc 2016-01-01T04:27:35+00:00

Always wondering about this rule, but can I ask what those conflicts are?

In case when uninherited point is stacked with an inherited point, inherited point works in higher priority as what I've seen.

Basically agreeing to keep such settings consistent, but as long as they work properly, I actually don't see a reason to forbid.
Something similar to inconsistent widescreen support setting stuff imo

ZiRoX

Elite Mapper

1,052 posts

Joined November 2009

ZiRoX 2016-01-01T05:05:29+00:00

Actually, the current rule already implies volume and sampleset should be the same, as it states the inherited section can be stacked only to change SV.

Tari

osu! Alumni

1,671 posts

Joined July 2012

Topic Starter

Tari 2016-01-01T05:10:02+00:00

ZiRoX wrote:
Actually, the current rule already implies volume and sampleset should be the same, as it states the inherited section can be stacked only to change SV.

Clarification on the rule wouldn't hurt. The rule needs to be rewritten to better explain why such conflicts can't exist.

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,642 posts

Joined May 2013

Monstrata 2016-01-01T05:41:23+00:00

This is what I've gathered about this "red line, green line" debate since to this day I have yet to see anyone really explain why these issues are "gamebreaking".

Red lines (Uninherited sections) modify all volumes and samplesets on, before and after the line.
Green lines (Inherited sections) modify all volumes and samplesets on and after the line.

When stuff like this happens, it causes game-breaking problems because the red line at 00:03:167 - will attempt to modify everything before it, while the green line from 00:02:816 - is trying to modify everything after it. Because they are clashing this creates potential game-breaking bugs due to conflicting samplesets/volumes not with the stacked green/reds but with the section before the conflicting stacked red/green lines.

That said, something like this should be rankable: (It's proven to be anyways, I've seen at least one map ranked with this)

If you try going into editor, you'll notice that you will not be able to set up any green lines before the initial red line (my example says 00:04:700 - ). This will sometimes happen when a song does not begin on a downbeat. In this case, the red line may have a different volume and/or sampleset because it is modifying the objects that are mapped before the first red line. This is the only possible scenario I can think of where having differing settings between red/green stacked lines will not create any conflicts because prior to 00:04:700 - there are no green lines. Therefore the game cannot be confused.

Anyways, this is my explanation. I'm not a developer so I can't say for certain this is the reason why red/green line stacks with different samplesets are gamebreaking. I think it's a reasonable explanation but what do you guys think?

Garven

osu! Alumni

5,857 posts

Joined January 2010

Garven 2016-01-02T19:24:55+00:00

Something I have found along this line is when the first uninherited section also has Kiai activated on it. This will cause kiai fountains to fire the moment the map starts as opposed to at the timing point position. You'll need to have an inherited line at the same time as the uninherited with kiai on the inherited, and off on the uninherited. Might want to slip that in somewhere too.

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Kibbleru

osu! Alumni

5,846 posts

Joined August 2013

Kibbleru 2016-01-13T22:57:28+00:00

uhmm... agree with monstrata. what does this actually have to do gameplay wise???