It would be nice to have at least one spinner on each difficulty to create differences on the scoreboard.

As in Catch the Beat the percentage isn't affect too much, the spinners can give huge boost to the scores. At each spinner the players are free to choose which path they take to pass the spinner, this result different scores. Some path requires skill while other just pure luck but this makes them really interesting to play with.

Here is and example (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/320524) where no spinner can be found and you see the same scores everywhere. This makes the scoreboard a little bit boring and there is no way to tell who played the map better.

Discuss~

wasnt this already done? cuz im sure ive read this before
idk what im doing here

this is part of
https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Standard_Ranking_Criteria
all you could do is suggesting to move this to the general ranking criteria.
Then again this doesn't make any sense at all for taiko
and mania doesn't have spinners
this might be why it's only in the standard rc

It does make sense for CtB though. Having this rule on the General Criteria wouldn't be the best option imo because of the reasons you explained.

Yes, its the same rule as for Standard but I think it needs to be included in the Catch the Beat section too. Moving it to General makes no sense as you said. And adding it to somewhere else besides osu! won't hurt anyone imo.

I agree with this.

I totally agree with this!

but notice that not every song have place for adding spinner ;;

Thats why this is a guideline and not a rule. Its stated in the wording as well.

This has my support as a guideline, more competition for score differentiation would be cool.

Support to you! I'm bored of same scores

well this has always been assumed I'm not sure how this is new but I do know in some cases spinners just don't fit as well as in other songs but I think it should be common sense that you try to apply at least one spinner to a diff.

It is already a guideline for std so there is literally nothing legit against adding it to ctb rc too.

loctav when ?

Let's bring this forward I guess. Nobody seems to have an issue with it, the case is pretty obvious.

Try to have at least one spinner in each difficulty to create variety in the map and fluctuation among scores. However, if a spinner just doesn't fit anywhere in the song, then there's no need to force one.

Applying for Standard and CtB.

Desperate-kun wrote:

Applying for Standard and CtB.

It's already applied in standard https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Standard_Ranking_Criteria
Just need to add it here actually https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Catch_the_Beat_Ranking_Criteria

I know, I just wanted to mention for which modes it applies after the guideline is added.

can i spin my keyboard to get more score in osu!mania? xD

sorry bad joke, but this guideline is sounds really neat.. support this for now

if this one starts drama i'll just die

but yeah, this'll be good (even though I'm probably the main person who forgets to add spinners in maps lmao)

- Magic Bomb - wrote:

if this one starts drama i'll just die

but yeah, this'll be good (even though I'm probably the main person who forgets to add spinners in maps lmao)

yea lol

Might as well, I sometimes see a little extra space in a lot of newer songs that has like 5-6 seconds of silence during break periods that a spinner could go in.

Is this only for ctb? Spinners are the worst part of osu! standard, and only break the flow of the song, especially on easier difficulties, especially for mouse users. Nothing worse than playing [normals] on HR trying to move cursor as delicately as possible and suddently you have to shake your hand like a madman.

There are about 1 000 maps where the same few 470RPM spinners can compete with each other while having SS,DT,HR,HD,FL. Is there any reason to include this on more maps? Do you really look at high scores in [easy] and [normal] difficulties and think "ugh the top 50 scores are all the same, i wish I could see the top spinners dominating the high scores here aswell."

Sea_Food wrote:

Is this only for ctb? Spinners are the worst part of osu! standard, and only break the flow of the song, especially on easier difficulties, especially for mouse users. Nothing worse than playing [normals] on HR trying to move cursor as delicately as possible and suddently you have to shake your hand like a madman.

The same guideline already exists in standard. This is about adding it specifically to CtB.

ZiRoX wrote:

Sea_Food wrote:

Is this only for ctb? Spinners are the worst part of osu! standard, and only break the flow of the song, especially on easier difficulties, especially for mouse users. Nothing worse than playing [normals] on HR trying to move cursor as delicately as possible and suddently you have to shake your hand like a madman.

The same guideline already exists in standard. This is about adding it specifically to CtB.

well shit

Yeah, I'm totally agree, spin is really important at CtB.

Hate to be the party pooper, but I wholeheartedly disagree with this as a guideline. Spin is important in CtB sure, and spinners do help to create variety but I just hope the guideline won't be used too seriously.

I would argue that in higher difficulty maps with high AR, a spinner would be less important to have as it is difficult to predict in CtB where the next fruit may fall after a spinner. Unlike in standard where a player may move his/her hand or arm as humanly fast as necessary to reach a note after a spinner, the catcher has a limited dash speed to reach the fruit after the spinner, in some cases interrupting the flow of a map due to the unpredictable generation of bananas for any given spinner. Because spin is so important in CtB, a player may follow a path to catch as many bananas as possible only to find the next note suddenly appearing on the other side of the screen without enough time to reach it. This is a surprise jump, here is an exaggerated example of what I mean:



The red path represents what a player might do the first time playing the map, so they miss the fruit. The blue path shows what a player will do after they realize the generated spinner+fruit combination does not allow for an optimal spin. This issue becomes more difficult to predict as the AR rises IMO.

Again, there are other ways to create variety and competition in scoreboards without relying on spinners as shown in Yoiyami Hanabi and dreamless wanderer by using droplets/sliders. In my opinion these styles of spinless maps add variety to the CtB map spread and add a different nature of competition to the scoreboard. An SS on any of those maps are impressive feats on the same level of an amazing spin, so please don't discourage those kinds of map styles in the future I want to see some more b-a-d-s123 style #1 HD+PF SS scores

This is by no means discouraging variety in maps, as a song that doesn't really fit having a spinner isn't forced to having one, this seems more so for the simple 1-2 minute maps that will have a large number of FC's/SS's and they're all tied due to there being no spinners.

I support having this as a guideline.

diao's point is valid, but could still be worked around whilst having this guideline. Mappers and modders will just need to be more aware of potential problems between spinner+note movements during the modding process. For example, it may be possible to shorten the spinner to allow for greater reaction time, or simply to make sure the next note after the spinner is sensibly placed to avoid situations like the example given.

And if there really is no way to make it work, no-one will be forced to include the spinner; guidelines are a recommendation and can be broken under certain circumstances, rather than rules, which may not be broken.

Even though diao's point is valid, we have one more new rule thread for RC which makes it invalid a little. That is the minimum distance between note+spinner and spinner+note. Whenever that rule will be added to the RC, it changes the meaning of that post. This means, the distance will be high enough to reach the note after the spinner even if it is on the other side of the screen, at least thats the plan. At the moment we do have, or at least we had an unwritten rule which was to place the next note close to the spinner optimal end as much as possible. This thing lost during these years but it still should be valid. Although we can't force mappers to follow this. :<

Back to the topic, this is a guideline, no one will be forced to follow it if the spinner has no enough time or just not fit at all. This is just to point it out and make it clear that mappers should add a spinner wherever possible.

No spinner is unrankable? Dx

KittyAdventure wrote:

No spinner is unrankable? Dx

Kurokami wrote:

Back to the topic, this is a guideline, no one will be forced to follow it if the spinner has no enough time or just not fit at all. This is just to point it out and make it clear that mappers should add a spinner wherever possible.

I already answered this like a hundred times.

language borderline, don't blame him..
ga pakai spinner ngga unrankable kok.. hanya sebatas guide / panduan mapping, setiap diff perlu ada spinner, kalau flow musiknya gk sesuai, gk ditambahin pun gpp :3a

well, okay ;w;
almost make me heart attack ;w;

edit: thanks for information~

I don't like the spinners dude

Desperate-kun wrote:

Let's bring this forward I guess. Nobody seems to have an issue with it, the case is pretty obvious.

Try to have at least one spinner in each difficulty to create variety in the map and fluctuation among scores. However, if a spinner just doesn't fit anywhere in the song, then there's no need to force one.

Applying for Standard and CtB.

so does this go forward or

It already has, but it's only a guideline

The title is pretty confusing, I actually interpret it as only a maximum of one spinner could be used per difficultly. Mind rewording or adding "At least" in front of the current title?

Holy crap misleading title is misleading :O

Zak wrote:

It already has, but it's only a guideline

So should we move this to completed then??

Take a look at this thread: t/420229

There's no need to push this one forward, since the all the rules and guidelines and possible new amendments are already being discussed. Just wait until everything's done!

Deif wrote:

Take a look at this thread: t/420229

There's no need to push this one forward, since the all the rules and guidelines and possible new amendments are already being discussed. Just wait until everything's done!

so this entire subforum at the current moment is useless at the moment is what you're saying, lol

Pretty much... As far as I understood we are still allowed to discuss here but this council works as final instance to decide over the amendments.

Sey wrote:

Pretty much... As far as I understood we are still allowed to discuss here but this council works as final instance to decide over the amendments.

Definitely not the "final instance" but it's there to fix the whole ranking criteria in a relatively short time which would not work with this forum. Please continue discussing here if you find it necessary, the topics are surely recognized by the council.

OMG, you get me so scared!
I rarely visit this subforum recently and after seeing this, I instantly thought that it's some another stupid not so wise idea (like new rules proposed 3 days ago), which forbids more that one spinner in difficulty. Maybe you should add "At least..." in the title or something?

Desperate-kun wrote:

Sey wrote:

Pretty much... As far as I understood we are still allowed to discuss here but this council works as final instance to decide over the amendments.

Definitely not the "final instance" but it's there to fix the whole ranking criteria in a relatively short time which would not work with this forum. Please continue discussing here if you find it necessary, the topics are surely recognized by the council.

I'd hope that these are recognized by the council

You know seeing as these are legitimate issues that have been discussed for months, and they're now being replaced by a randomly created council because nobody with the right power to approve / deny these rules stepped up and got things cleared, making staff think that this subforum was ineffective and dead, when it actually was a solid place to harbor important discussion about issues with the ranking criteria.

I'd honestly be offended if the council ignored ANY thread in this subforum, and to even give the notion that we'd need to poke their heads in order to get them to notice month-long discussions is enough to make me feel uneasy.

Reditum wrote:

I'd hope that these are recognized by the council

You know seeing as these are legitimate issues that have been discussed for months, and they're now being replaced by a randomly created council because nobody with the right power to approve / deny these rules stepped up and got things cleared, making staff think that this subforum was ineffective and dead, when it actually was a solid place to harbor important discussion about issues with the ranking criteria.

I'd honestly be offended if the council ignored ANY thread in this subforum, and to even give the notion that we'd need to poke their heads in order to get them to notice month-long discussions is enough to make me feel uneasy.

This forum is ineffective, you (we) are discussing months about one rule / guideline while 90% of the rules in the ranking criteria need to be reworded, changed or removed. And no, the threads in this forum won't get ignored.

One spinner per diff = One more top 1 for lncognito on easy diff =p

Locking it as this is already added to the general part of the Catch the Beat Ranking Criteria proposal: t/435597