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Explosions in the Sky - So Long, Lonesome

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Topic Starter
Mortem
This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on 30. července 2018 at 18:50:16

Artist: Explosions in the Sky
Title: So Long, Lonesome
Tags: all of a sudden i miss everyone calm relaxing post-rock
BPM: 104
Filesize: 8534kb
Play Time: 03:20
Difficulties Available:
  1. Advanced (1,58 stars, 213 notes)
  2. Goodbye (2,55 stars, 334 notes)
Download: Explosions in the Sky - So Long, Lonesome
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------


#12


Mapset
Advanced - Mortem
Goodbye - Mortem

Storyboard - Mortem

old description
life is full of disapointment, lies and fake people. you keep opening your heart to those, who tells you, that they are your friends but in the end, they betray you and throw you away like an old dirty rag. but one day, when you'll come through all the depression and sadness, there will be someone, who will understand you. who will like you as you are and those type of friends are way more better than one thousand fake ones.

this map is dedicated to all my true friends, who didn't help me only in osu! community but also in real life. thank you for having you as a trustful friends. c:
Kyouren
Mortem x Pjecoo - So Long, Handsome~ <3
Good luck~ w/
Sieg
<3
Nyukai
Aw, thanks for this, I'm really glad you dedicated this map to me and other people ;wwwww;

I'll be always here if you need me for something :3
Euny
thanks dom!!
Lethargy
Hello, IRC mod

mod
23:14 Lethargy: me se to nechce nacist v osu
23:14 Lethargy: lmao
23:14 Mortem: xD
23:14 Lethargy: uz to mam
23:14 Lethargy: takze chces jako irc?
23:14 Mortem: moheš
23:14 Lethargy: ok
23:14 Lethargy: takz
23:14 Mortem: ti to stejně více vyhovuje ne?
23:14 Lethargy: no
23:15 Lethargy: asi jo
23:15 Lethargy: jelikoz uz chci jit spat
23:15 Mortem: :D
23:15 Lethargy: takze
23:15 Lethargy: nejdriv bych pojmenoval Advanced nejak jinak kdyz uz mas ten hard goodbye
23:15 Lethargy: treba to muze byt Hello
23:15 Lethargy: lmao
23:16 Mortem: :DDD
23:16 Mortem: Hmm...prozatím nechám tak
23:16 Mortem: Při nejhorším tam dám "Bye"
23:16 Lethargy: 00:35:944 (3,1) - blanket
23:17 Mortem: mm-hmm fixed.
23:18 Lethargy: tohle bych nahradil circly 01:31:949 (5) -
23:19 Lethargy: sem muzes dat slider 01:32:521 (1) -
23:19 Lethargy: tak jako si to udelal potom
23:19 Mortem: ok
23:19 Mortem: mm- nechám tak.
23:20 Lethargy: misto 01:45:379 (3,4) bych dal ctrl c 01:44:808 (2) - jelikoz to jsou identicky zvuky
23:21 Lethargy: tohle imo urcite nahradit circly
23:21 Lethargy: vubec mi tam ten slider nesedi 02:01:095 (2) -
23:21 Mortem: co ti na něm nesedí?
23:21 Lethargy: ze konci na silny note
23:21 Lethargy: a zacina na slaby
23:22 Lethargy: nevim jak tomu rikate
23:22 Lethargy: downbeat?
23:22 Lethargy: potom dal uz to mas v pohode
23:22 Mortem: tak já tam dám circly.
23:22 Lethargy: ok
23:22 Lethargy: tohle bych taky nahradil circly 02:23:097 (5) -
23:23 Lethargy: protoze vsechny tri tony jsou rovnocenny
23:23 Mortem: jasně.
23:23 Mortem: ok
23:24 Lethargy: 02:44:528 (1) - tohle by imo vypadalo lip
23:24 Lethargy: kdybys tu cervenou tecku vlevo
23:24 Lethargy: predelal na bilou
23:24 Lethargy: aka right click
23:24 Lethargy: ;also tady dodrz spacing 02:44:528 (1,2) -
23:24 Lethargy: jelikoz tam je takova neortodoxni mezera
23:25 Mortem: jasně mno
23:25 Lethargy: to je vse pro tenhle diff
23:25 Mortem: ok
23:26 Lethargy: tayd circly imo 00:52:231 (2) - 00:52:231 (2) -
23:26 Lethargy: nechces tohle blanketnout? 00:57:374 (7,8,9) -
23:26 Mortem: meh...tady né :x
23:26 Mortem: to je blanketnuté
23:26 Lethargy: jakoze tole 00:56:517 (5,7,8,9) -
23:26 Lethargy: oh wait stack
23:27 Mortem: tam nechám blanket.
23:27 Lethargy: tohle se podle me vic hodi na square 01:21:091 (5,6,7,8) -
23:28 Lethargy: tohle bys mohl vylepsit
23:28 Mortem: jasně chápu...ale asi to taky takhle nechám...nijak to neporušuje flow nebo tak.
23:28 Lethargy: kdybys ten bod mezi dvema cervenyma dal jakoby dovnitr
23:28 Lethargy: nemam tady puush
23:28 Lethargy: moment
23:28 Lethargy: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/3758857
23:28 Lethargy: takhle
23:29 Lethargy: tady tu kytaru bys mel zmapovat 01:46:808 (8,9) -
23:29 Lethargy: jelikoz si ji potom
23:30 Mortem: ok done
23:30 Lethargy: tady zmapoval
23:30 Lethargy: 01:50:237 (1,2) -
23:30 Lethargy: to samy vsude jinde
23:30 Mortem: nj, ale tam jsem se soustředil na piano-only
23:30 Mortem: prozatím to tak nechám
23:30 Lethargy: no jasne
23:30 Mortem: jestli více lidí toto zmíní, tak to tam domapuju
23:30 Lethargy: ale ty tam mas potom zmapovanou kytaru only
23:31 Lethargy: tady konkretne 01:50:237 (1,2) -
23:31 Mortem: Jasně mno.
23:32 Lethargy: thast it
23:32 Lethargy: az na par estetickejch veci s flowem
23:32 Mortem: ok \ w /

pekny
Topic Starter
Mortem

Lethargy wrote:

pekny
Dík moc. c:
Side
Hi for the M4M :V

SPOILER
General

01:32:521 - For this section with the F key hitsound I would suggest lowering the volume of that hitsound slightly (maybe by about 15-20% on audacity) because right now it's overshadowing the lead piano sounds (melody) which doesn't make it sound as great. Same for the similar section on 02:34:241 -.


Advanced

02:23:097 (5,6,7) - Could probably be spaced a bit more roundly to have more of a circular flow. also the distance between 7 and 1 is too short so this could help fix that.

Other than that no issues.


Goodbye

Consider OD5.5 maybe even OD6 here. Kind of like a hard but with more straightforward patterns so it could definitely be useful for challenging newer players to learn to acc and rewarding them more for a good FC :)

01:03:947 (6,7) - Could be unstacked much like the previous patterns but this isn't really major.

01:12:519 (2,3) - Ctrl G this so the slider is first then move the note to the slider end. Currently the pattern plays pretty...meh. Like slider 1 is a 1/2 slider and then you have a note and a slider on the red tick. This is fine but if you listen to the music it's 5 piano notes and if you had it the way I mentioned it would be slider slider note so you would be single tapping 1/1 technically which feels better than single tapping 2 and then random 1/2 tap and hold. This change also doesn't require any pattern reworks so I think it's worth it :3

01:45:665 (4) - Works better stacked over 01:45:093 (3) - slider end. This helps to differentiate the upcoming triple since it's both a different piano note and it looks much better than spacing out the triple instead.

Honestly diff is pretty solid. Patterns are friendly consistent with the song, spacing is consistent, a few missed blanket opportunities but that's minor and unimportant (unless you care about that stuff :v so) Good job! Shooting a star since I couldn't find much and its a nice song :v

Good luck! :)
Topic Starter
Mortem
@Side - Thank you for mod. Fixed some things you mentioned.
Darcsol
M4M request


[General]
  1. Combo colors 1 and 5 can be difficult to see in some places. I recommend tweaking them to be more noticeable.

  2. I recommend renaming Advanced to anything related to the song. The name "advanced" is too convoluted and it might bring unnecessary confusion.

[Storyboard]
  1. 00:58:267 - The transition to the colored BG should not be sudden. These type of transitions can hurt the song's appearance. I recommend the transition should start around 00:51:374 so it would start more slowly and less distracting.
  2. 01:32:664 - Similar to above, the transition should not be distracting. This time the transition should start around 01:15:376 .
  3. 01:59:952 - Similar to above, but this time it should start around 01:56:523 .
  4. 02:34:384 - Similar to above, but this time it should start around 02:13:667 .
  5. 02:47:956 - It is strange yet disappointing to see strobe effects on these type of maps. Not only is it so late into the song, it is too sudden and overwhelming; it hurts the experience from the song. I highly recommend removing the strobe effects. If not, reduce the amount of strobe effects and change them so they fade more slowly. I think maps like this should not have an epilepsy warning in the first place.
  6. 02:47:814 - The light particles are also overwhelming. Instead of having all of them appear during kiai time, the first light particles should appear around 02:35:955 . The light particles then should gradually increase in numbers until it hits kiai time. I think this make an interesting visual build-up to the kiai time.
The SB is mostly minimal until the last part of the map. I think the strobe effects are unnecessary and should be removed from the map. The SB should enhance the map, not hurt it.

[Advanced]
  1. 00:54:803 (1) - There are 2 more sliders of this type, one at 00:57:374 (5) and 02:50:814 (6) . If you rarely use linear sliders, why bother? I recommend replacing them.
  2. 01:32:521 - The slider velocity meter is too slow. Increase all values of x0.75 to x0.85 so newer players can adjust more smoothly to the pacing of the diff.
    In addition to above, why is the beginning of the diff not slow?
  3. 01:42:807 (1) - Adjust the slider so the red waypoint is directly above the tickmark(s), similar to 01:39:378 (1) .
  4. 02:41:099 (1) - ^
  5. 02:44:528 (1) - ^
  6. 03:15:530 (1) - The finishing hitsound felt very out of place, especially when there's nothing going on in the song. I recommend replacing it.
The biggest problem with Advanced is the slow slider velocity. Other than that, the diff needs general polish.

[Goodbye]
  1. 01:35:950 (1) - Similar to what I said in Advanced, adjust the slider so the red waypoints is directly above the tickmark(s).
  2. 02:13:667 (1) - Flip this slider vertically.
  3. 02:23:668 (9,1) - No jump this time?
  4. 02:37:670 (1) - Similar to what I said, adjust the slider so the red waypoints is directly above the tickmark(s).
  5. 02:41:099 (1) - ^
  6. 02:44:528 (1) - ^
  7. 03:03:101 (3,1) - A jump here?
  8. (Optional) 03:08:244 (3,4,1) - ^
  9. (Optional) 03:11:673 (3,4,1) - ^
  10. 03:13:959 (2,3,4) - ^
  11. 03:15:530 (1) - Again the finishing hitsounds feels very out of place. I recommend replacing it.
Not much problems here. Nothing noteworthy about the diff either, but that's okay. Again, the diff needs general polish.

Other than fixing the storyboard, adjusting the pacing on Advanced, and adding general polish, the map is looking good. I think it deserves a star.


EDIT: Apparently all my stars somehow added to your map. This happened before. This is getting ridiculous.
Shadren
[Goodbye]
00:44:373 (8) - look, this sound destination not 00:44:373, it's 00:44:326 - that's must be on the 1/3. try to replace 7 and 8 to slider
00:46:088 (5) - and here too ^
01:13:662 (4,5) - add DS here, I think, it would be better to emphasize strong beat
01:45:951 (5,6,7) - it's hard to read triplet, that's stands on the previous object, try to move it, or change it to reverse slider, also, place NC at 7
02:10:239 (1,3) - stack it better
03:15:102 (6,7,8) - this objects must be placed little earlier, just listen. Also, NC at 8

[Advanced]
01:03:375 (2) - what about Crtl-H ?
03:15:102 - as I said above. Idk what to here, soz.

Good luck with your rank c:
Topic Starter
Mortem
@Shadren: Fixed literally everything, Thank you.
@Darcsol: Fixed placement issues, didn't fix anything in SB & sliders. Thank you.
meii18
02:43 ByBy13: have you fixed the mods?
02:43 Mortem: yes.
02:43 Mortem: But i didn't reply yet.
02:43 ByBy13: ok
02:43 ByBy13: just lemme know
02:43 Mortem: Because I'm uploading replays for you
02:43 Mortem: I will.
02:43 ByBy13: okay
02:44 Mortem: give me a minute.
02:44 ByBy13: ok
02:45 Mortem: [https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/4558391 Done]
02:45 ByBy13: ok
02:45 ByBy13: let's go
02:46 ByBy13: for the last time
02:46 Mortem: yea ;w;
02:49 *ByBy13 is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/794602 Explosions In The Sky - So Long, Lonesome [Advanced]]
02:49 Mortem: mmhm
02:49 Mortem: Told you.
02:49 Mortem: There will be something...
02:49 ByBy13: 01:06:804 (3,4)- have you tried to make blanket?
02:49 Mortem: Oh...i tried.
02:49 Mortem: But I failed.
02:49 Mortem: So i'll fix it
02:49 ByBy13: okay
02:50 Mortem: Fixed.
02:50 ByBy13: okay
02:50 Mortem: Also fixed the other blankets like
02:50 Mortem: 01:08:518 (1,2,1) -
02:50 ByBy13: ok
02:53 ByBy13: 01:59:095 (4)- Seems you have to react faster at this slider I mean it react faster and it can be a bit harder for newbie players especially.You can replace it with 2 notes or with an 1/2 slider
02:54 Mortem: Ok fixed.
02:56 ByBy13: 03:15:030 (8)- same ^
02:56 Mortem: Ok fixed.
02:57 *ByBy13 is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/792280 Explosions In The Sky - So Long, Lonesome [Goodbye]]
02:57 Mortem: mmhmm
02:57 ByBy13: 00:57:089 (6,7,8,9)- spacing error?
02:58 Mortem: No, I¨d like to leave it like it is because the 7,8,9 is blanketed by 5.
02:58 ByBy13: ok
03:00 ByBy13: 01:45:665 (4,5,6,7)- ugh :(
03:01 Mortem: It used to be stacked with 4.
03:01 ByBy13: ok
03:02 Mortem: brb
03:02 Mortem: 5 mins
03:08 Mortem: ok
03:08 Mortem: back
03:09 Mortem: *poke*
03:16 Mortem: well...going for a lunch - brb 10 mins.
03:17 ByBy13: :<
03:17 ByBy13: btw
03:17 ByBy13: drum-hitclap - 12 ms delay
03:18 ByBy13: softhitwhistle5 - less than 100 ms
03:25 ByBy13: 02:29:383 - There's still sound and it feels empty.A note here would be much appreciated
03:36 Mortem: bACK
03:36 Mortem: sorry it took so long
03:36 ByBy13: np
03:36 Mortem: 02:29:383 - about this i'd like to leave it like it is.
03:36 ByBy13: ok
03:36 Mortem: softwhistle is fixed.
03:36 ByBy13: okay
03:36 Mortem: ill take a look on hitclap
03:36 ByBy13: ok
03:40 Mortem: alright
03:40 Mortem: done
03:40 Mortem: updating
03:41 Mortem: done
03:41 Mortem: updated.
03:43 ByBy13: okay
03:43 ByBy13: let's bubble it

Bubbled
Nyukai
That was fast LOL
Wafu
We fixed storyboard (wrong resolutions, uncut transparency, objects rendering out of screen)
Then we fixed some hitsounds issues (length and delay) and removed one unused file.

Cannot send log, because we mixed it with regular chatting and it was in Czech anyway.
Wafu
We had some discussion about timing and fixed it with Sieg. Then we fixed problems related to timing like duplicate lines, wrong snapping etc.
There are some unsnapped inherited timing points but these are okay because they are not kiai and do not afflict gameplay in any way. Also way too loud volume was fixed.

I want ByBy to recheck and rebubble the map, because kind of major things were changed.
Sieg
02:39:960 (2) -
Wafu

Sieg wrote:

02:39:960 (2) -
Should be fixed indeed.
Nozhomi
Well I guess it's too late for me to mod it. Call me for anything then.
Topic Starter
Mortem

Sieg wrote:

02:39:960 (2) -
Fixed.
meii18
Metadata confirmation: http://www.explosionsinthesky.com/discography/4
Seems it should be Explosions in the Sky
Topic Starter
Mortem

ByBy13 wrote:

Metadata confirmation: http://www.explosionsinthesky.com/discography/4
Seems it should be Explosions in the Sky
Ah, alright, changed.
meii18
Rebubbled
Wafu
Qualified after some minor fixes (removing some inherited points and fixing some spacing on advanced)

01:38:256 (2) - Is okay! The 0.25x difference is here to compensate the SV change.
Topic Starter
Mortem


Goodbye.
meii18
now i'm crying ;_;.Congratz by the way
Sieg
):
Snaggletooth
Goodbye Mortem..~ I hope you'll have a wonderful time, even after osu.
You know how to contact me, if you need someone.
Cya around <3 I know you can do it. :)
Blizs

Good Bye, Mortem ;w;
we will miss you~~~
anyway gratzz for qualify~~~ (hope there's no DQ ;w;)
Nyukai
Meh...
Lach
Can someone explain what happened here? Did this guy really speedrank an (average) map then get himself banned? What if he needs to make changes? He obviously didn't think this through, in which case I hope something happens.
Jenny

Lach wrote:

Can someone explain what happened here? Did this guy really speedrank an (average) map then get himself banned? What if he needs to make changes? He obviously didn't think this through, in which case I hope something happens.

Yeah, I see multiple concerns in terms of quality here, a few of which are:

  1. Why is the map completely void of audible hitsounding (except for the ending, I guess?) when the song offers plenty of opportunities for soft whistles and volume balancing?
  2. Clicking rhythm is inconsistent (sliders are no adequate replacement for multiple clicks, they're just clicked once)
  3. Stacks on what is supposed to be a pressured beat in the song.
  4. Why a spinner on a fade-out? Doesn't exactly seem like the most fitting thing to spin at your maximum speed when the song is ending and getting progressively more quiet.
Wafu

Jenny wrote:

Yeah, I see multiple concerns in terms of quality here, a few of which are:

  1. Why is the map completely void of audible hitsounding (except for the ending, I guess?) when the song offers plenty of opportunities for soft whistles and volume balancing?
  2. Clicking rhythm is inconsistent (sliders are no adequate replacement for multiple clicks, they're just clicked once)
  3. Stacks on what is supposed to be a pressured beat in the song.
  4. Why a spinner on a fade-out? Doesn't exactly seem like the most fitting thing to spin at your maximum speed when the song is ending and getting progressively more quiet.
Let me get into this a little. I can agree with first point, there were more opportunities for hitsounding and variable volume, but hitsounds are still possible to hear, tho they don't stand out that much, but that depends on whether mapper likes to make hitsounds stand out or just let it blend with music. So I agree there was opportunity for better hitsounding, but more like 3/4 of maps have simple or even poor hitsounding, so I don't see a reason why this should be explicitly unrankable.

Spinner on fade-out was always common practice and is better than mapping it in a regular part. You are not forced to spin at your maximum speed, that depends on your gameplay.

Stacks and picking circles or sliders is mostly very subjective and more like changing mapper's style to yours, moreover, higher count of sliders was quite required here to provide more sensible spread.
Jenny

Wafu wrote:

Let me get into this a little. I can agree with first point, there were more opportunities for hitsounding and variable volume, but hitsounds are still possible to hear, tho they don't stand out that much, but that depends on whether mapper likes to make hitsounds stand out or just let it blend with music. So I agree there was opportunity for better hitsounding, but more like 3/4 of maps have simple or even poor hitsounding, so I don't see a reason why this should be explicitly unrankable.
Other maps being bad is no justification to not encourage further polishing and raising overall quality.
Just because I can't post into every map's thread doesn't mean I see this as "especially bad" or "worse than others", but it is simply insufficient.
No comparisons made to other maps, and frankly, every map should be able to stand for itself.


Wafu wrote:

Spinner on fade-out was always common practice and is better than mapping it in a regular part. You are not forced to spin at your maximum speed, that depends on your gameplay.
Again, "common practice" is not an excuse.
Any player that actually plays to get a decent score on a map will be spinning at a reasonably high speed - that is what the gameplay encourages and demands of the player, and that is what needs to be used as a base assumption for the object placed.
Now, if the start of the spinner was especially strong, and it was just elongated as it tapered off, that'd be okay, but this is purely a fade-out with no strong parts to it.


Wafu wrote:

Stacks and picking circles or sliders is mostly very subjective and more like changing mapper's style to yours, moreover, higher count of sliders was quite required here to provide more sensible spread.
Neglecting key beats is not a style, and being inconsistent in your clicking rhythm in a way that doesn't feature the song isn't either - that is a technical flaw.
There are different ways to implement certain rhythms, but I see no systematic progression here.




And just to get this clear: the qualified section is in place to improve maps within it, and disqualifications are not supposed to be only about strictly unrankable issues - in fact, we as players and modders are encouraged to still leave feedback and concerns while the map is in said state, so I do not see why one wouldn't insist for maps to be improved further when they are still in qualified state, and valid concerns are brought up.

Beatmap Listing, Qualified Section wrote:

They are in "qualified" status for up to one week.
During this week, there is a high chance they will return to pending if an issue is found.

This category is recommended for people who:
Want to play cutting-edge maps.
Want to help keep map quality top-notch! (make sure to leave your feedback)
Wafu
So we should just keep whole map consistent when picking circles and sliders so there is no variety especially when the rhythm is repetitive and literally force people to quit playing the map?

"Neglecting key beats" - If we talk about kiai, emphasis on all sounds was completely fine. If we talk about part pre-kiai, guitar sounds seem like being the "background" and the emphasized instrument is a piano where the heaviest piano sounds were clickable and those less significant could be end of slider or anything else, even if they were, it is not explicitly required for every sound "louder than this sound" to be clickable. Also classifying piano as "beat" or guitar as "key beat" is quite weird in musical terms.

Jenny wrote:

every map should be able to stand for itself
Obviously, but every map should be judged under the same circumstances, that's why referring to other beatmaps is not wrong in this case. RC doesn't determine what is quality and how high it should be - nominators mostly get known to this by seeing what actually is passing through the qualified section. If we were about qualifying only the best hitsounds, best placement, best slider/circle choice, and forbidding spinner on fade-off would just result in no maps being qualified, because there are are no 100% perfect maps.

Also, if you consider tryhards as apologize for "the spinner on fade-off is bad" tho it is on long sound but w/e, consider a difference between game and competition. If you play a game for fun (yeah, that's what games were supposed to), you would not mind playing the spinner and would play it in the way you feel is comfortable for you. If you play for rank, you may complain about spinner being too long or you having to spin at maximum speed while the music is fading off. This logic would basically eliminate spinners from low BPM maps, because tryhards would play it as quickly as possible, but that's insensible to haste on 60BPM map, so remove the spinners... that's the exactly the same case.

so I do not see why one wouldn't insist for maps to be improved further when they are still in qualified state, and valid concerns are brought up.
Obviously you can give a feedback, do what you want, but I didn't see any sense or any valid reason in them, so I just wanted to say why it isn't much important to shut down a map from mapper that is banned just for subjective opinion. For more discussion, it would be nice if you argued with me in-game so we don't make a spamstorm here.
Jenny
Also classifying piano as "beat" or guitar as "key beat" is quite weird in musical terms.
I didn't equate either of these to a specific instrument. A "key beat" to me is a beat that is most apparent, in the foreground of the song, usually loudest at the given time and intended to be drawing in the focus and attention of the listener.


Wafu wrote:

So we should just keep whole map consistent when picking circles and sliders so there is no variety especially when the rhythm is repetitive and literally force people to quit playing the map?
I didn't say that, and there is no reason to be overdramatic here or to put words into somebody else's mouth.


If you want examples for improper beat delivery, I can give you some:

00:46:512 (7) - sliders like this one, which end on a stronger beat than they start on; it ends on the guitar, which is the only thing going on at that time, and starts on.. just about nothing. reference material here
00:47:083 (8) - this slider turns three piano notes into one click, and 1/2 hold. there is only one player input here, and it is on the first beat, while in fact, the third beat (on the white tick) is the strongest.
00:50:511 (8,9,10) - ^this is literally the same situation, yet this time the mapper used three circles, that's just inconsistent.
00:52:226 (2) - reoccurance of 00:46:512
00:53:945 (6) - reoccurance 00:47:083
01:07:388 (6) - same principle; the slider's end covers what is a foreground beat on the white tick, where usually the mapper started a new slider, or just had a click in general - that is not the case here, and there is no apparent explanation as to why, except for "trying to change it up", when the song is not calling for it.
01:11:963 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - this entire part is patterned in pairs of two in the song, restarting on every white tick, yet the mapper chose to start 3 on a red tick, therefore breaking with the song's pair patterning for what I presume to be "variation's sake", and again, the song does not call for it - similarly, 5's end covers the start of another pair, taking away another foreground beat from the gameplay



You get the idea. Main layer notes being covered by what is not a clicked part of an object, inconsistent clicking rhythm when nothing is changing etc etc - it's not like variation is a bad thing, but it needs to be implemented and thought through properly, and systematically.

Say you have a part of the song, 32/1 in length, that is just repetitions every 4/1 - you can vary up the way you interpret the rhythm every, say, 8/1 or 16/1; that gives the player time to adjust to each repetition's intricacies and lets them see what you are trying to do. Changing it every single reoccurance, and only very slightly at that (say, using one slider instead of 3 circles), is just plain inconsistent as opposed to integrating new ideas and interpretations.
Wafu

Jenny wrote:

If you want examples for improper beat delivery, I can give you some:

00:46:512 (7) - sliders like this one, which end on a stronger beat than they start on; it ends on the guitar, which is the only thing going on at that time, and starts on.. just about nothing. reference material here Well, I can admit it ends on harder sound, but he didn't emphasize guitar at all in the rest of map. Also there is a sound on the start, tho it's minor, but there is.
00:47:083 (8) - this slider turns three piano notes into one click, and 1/2 hold. there is only one player input here, and it is on the first beat, while in fact, the third beat (on the white tick) is the strongest. Nothing wrong about it, the white tick is same intensity as red tick in this case white tick is not always the one which must be clicked.
00:50:511 (8,9,10) - ^this is literally the same situation, yet this time the mapper used three circles, that's just inconsistent. No reason why variety cannot be there. You are forcing just the way YOU would probably map it but mapper not.
00:52:226 (2) - reoccurance of 00:46:512
00:53:945 (6) - reoccurance 00:47:083
01:07:388 (6) - same principle; the slider's end covers what is a foreground beat on the white tick, where usually the mapper started a new slider, or just had a click in general - that is not the case here, and there is no apparent explanation as to why, except for "trying to change it up", when the song is not calling for it. The last sound on slider seems to not be as loud as the first one. I even feel it is less intense, but just does have higher frequency, that's all.
01:11:963 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - this entire part is patterned in pairs of two in the song, restarting on every white tick, yet the mapper chose to start 3 on a red tick, therefore breaking with the song's pair patterning for what I presume to be "variation's sake", and again, the song does not call for it - similarly, 5's end covers the start of another pair, taking away another foreground beat from the gameplay Well, I can agree the circle here didn't fit perfectly.
I am not saying your opinion is wrong, but I feel like you want to bring your style to other maps and blame it on actual quality. Do what you want, try to get this unranked and grave it, do just anything you want I am not eligible to limit you in any way, I just wanted to say why did I ignore these things. I actually can agree with the circle which didn't fit the best to the rhythm and I would probably point it out if I realized it sounded bad, but that's just all I will admit at current point.
Snaggletooth
Ouch.

Sorry Mortem, if you're reading this.

We all know this map was speedranked in order to get it out there for his friends as a way
for him to say goodbye, to end his osu-life.
It was supported by his (close) friends.

Is that an excuse for the lack in quality? Of course not. And personally, I wouldn't
have ranked it, since it wouldn't add anything to the messege that he wanted to convey anyways.

Jenny is right about every single point he made about the map. Wafu, I know it sucks, and I
feel it too as a friend of his, but this map lacks quality in a technical stand-point. We can all argue
about Mortem and how much it means to him, and how a DQ would suck but at the end of the day,
this map is judged by an objective standard in mapping quality (and yes we all know that this is arguable)
which frankly dosn't own anyone anything and will therefore DQ this regularly like all other maps, if it needs
to be.

I personally enjoyed playing the map. It's nothing special in quality terms, neither a total disaster,
but it was fun, at least in my eyes.

I don't hold onto the thought that if this gets DQ'd that it'd be any less worth because its not.
Mortem made this map as a final act to say goodbye and I think he succeed. Whatever happens next with this
map shouldn't matter to his friends, and especially shouldn't matter to any outsider to this situation.
Lust
Howdy!

In accordance with what Jenny has posted above, I do believe that this mapset can be improved - lets not rush things now and see if we can work together to bring the quality up a notch!

Please review the following points and see if they can be implemented throughout the various instances of the beatmap:
  1. Rhythm choices in Goodbye diff can be improved to follow the music better and give more interaction to the song for the player. Instances include sliders that end on a stronger beat than what they start on (00:46:512 (7) - ), sliders that lack a strong rhythm basis (00:55:368 (2) - ), changes in the established rhythm or using a rhythm that ends up being weaker when could be changed for the better (01:15:394 (1) -, 01:18:794 (1) - , etc ), skipping important beats that would help to emphasize certain moments (01:25:399 - ), and so on and so forth.
  2. I'd examine the triplet usage in the Goodbye diff to make sure it is consistent with the song and with your mapping. Some instances can become inconsistent or be rhythmically awkward such as 00:47:083 (8) - and 00:50:511 (8,9,10) -
  3. The hitsounding scheme can be improved by adding more whistles or claps to accent certain sounds of the song that would make the map more interesting and responsive to the player

While a mostly clean map, I believe (and I see that others do as well, please notice their points listed) that these kinks can be smoothened out. Apply these points and the critiques of others to help clean the mapset up. Please continue to mod/critique this map which it is disqualified even though the mapper is absent. If s/he ever returns, it will be waiting for them.
Wafu
I can agree that some rhytmical stuff could be improved. Consistency is imo not real requirement of quality and I think using 1/4 sliders with repeat was fine for variety as the song is very repetitive. Hitsounds could have been a little more emphasizing, tho I felt the piano/guitar part didn't need that much, well, requirements on hitsounding probably changed, but whatever.

Snaggle: Now I feel like you consider it to be only emotional and thus my opinion meant nothing.

Anyway, I dunno whether more modding is needed, would be waste of time if we consider Mortem is banned.
Something went wrong? It is still visible in Qualified section.
George

Wafu wrote:

I can agree that some rhytmical stuff could be improved. Consistency is imo not real requirement of quality and I think using 1/4 sliders with repeat was fine for variety as the song is very repetitive. Hitsounds could have been a little more emphasizing, tho I felt the piano/guitar part didn't need that much, well, requirements on hitsounding probably changed, but whatever.

Snaggle: Now I feel like you consider it to be only emotional and thus my opinion meant nothing.

Anyway, I dunno whether more modding is needed, would be waste of time if we consider Mortem is banned.
Something went wrong? It is still visible in Qualified section.
He can always hack osu!'s mainframe and bring his account back to life
Nyukai
I already told him, I don't understand why he didn't wait at least until the map gets ranked, or something. Not sure if the map can get requalified now...

Anyways, I still don't know why he got banned, I know why he wanted to quit but... banned? lol
Snaggletooth

Wafu wrote:

Snaggle: Now I feel like you consider it to be only emotional and thus my opinion meant nothing.
No I read your statements and Jennys statements and I thought Jenny was right on a lot of things.
This map isn't bad, but it's definitly not as good as it could have been which is why it most likely got
DQ'd. I enjoy playing it, I really do but objectively speaking it is nothing special.

And being emotional isn't automatically a bad thing. I think its really great that you fight
for mortem in this way which is why it hurts me to take Jennys stand-point. I dislike Jenny.
I really like Mortem and you, but the cold and hard truth has been said and there isn't
much we can do about it either. I still stand by my point that to me, as his friend, it dosn't
matter wether or not this map is ranked since I understand why he made it and I am still
glad that I was able to be a part of his osu-life.

And since this was DQ'd now, it's most likely going to be DQ'd for good, since this is
what mortem told me if that happens.
Wafu
Yup, I agree the DQ is not unfair in any way (apart from the inability to revive the map), but the "Jenny is right about every single point he made about the map." was quite like: "Nobody cares about your opinion." My opinion was that what matters is how the map fits for regular players, not for tryhards who will "spin as much as they can on fade-off part", what matters about those spinners is whether they fit to the song, long sound is in the song - spinner does have loop sound -> spinner musically fits the part, that some people will break their hand while spinning for rank is a different problem. In such case, we should consider everything what would not feel well for tryhards, which is wrong, because that would force people to actually map so the map is perfect on all game modes like taiko, o!m, CtB, but also that it would have to play well on HD/DT/FL/HR and others, because that is considering what people MAY do if they want to climb, but not what people actually need to do to enjoy game, which is the important point. I've given this opinion previously, tho it was more like tl;dr of this, but nobody had enough strong argument to tell me I was wrong, yet the "jenny was right about every single point" felt like it was not even considered, only thing Jenny's argument was about is: "Players may spin very quickly so why is there spinner on fade-off?", but Jenny put her guide, which said exactly the same, but just because it is a "guide", it is so professional and no counter-arguments would not matter at all. I just felt like being ignored because you said she was right about everything. That's maybe my personal feeling, but from the way you've given your feedback, it seemed like you ignored it, don't worry about it.

Anyway I think this is my final word, there's nothing to talk about as we cannot do anything with the map anymore.
Snaggletooth

Wafu wrote:

Yup, I agree the DQ is not unfair in any way (apart from the inability to revive the map), but the "Jenny is right about every single point he made about the map." was quite like: "Nobody cares about your opinion." My opinion was that what matters is how the map fits for regular players, not for tryhards who will "spin as much as they can on fade-off part", what matters about those spinners is whether they fit to the song, long sound is in the song - spinner does have loop sound -> spinner musically fits the part, that some people will break their hand while spinning for rank is a different problem. In such case, we should consider everything what would not feel well for tryhards, which is wrong, because that would force people to actually map so the map is perfect on all game modes like taiko, o!m, CtB, but also that it would have to play well on HD/DT/FL/HR and others, because that is considering what people MAY do if they want to climb, but not what people actually need to do to enjoy game, which is the important point. I've given this opinion previously, tho it was more like tl;dr of this, but nobody had enough strong argument to tell me I was wrong, yet the "jenny was right about every single point" felt like it was not even considered, only thing Jenny's argument was about is: "Players may spin very quickly so why is there spinner on fade-off?", but Jenny put her guide, which said exactly the same, but just because it is a "guide", it is so professional and no counter-arguments would not matter at all. I just felt like being ignored because you said she was right about everything. That's maybe my personal feeling, but from the way you've given your feedback, it seemed like you ignored it, don't worry about it.

Anyway I think this is my final word, there's nothing to talk about as we cannot do anything with the map anymore.
Well, I did phrase it rather harshly, didn't I? I didn't intend it to be hurtful or to cause any negativity. I do
agree with you that Jenny is one of the mappers that force their personal bias into other peoples maps (which
is why I would never call him to mod one of my maps lol ) and yes, the point about the spinner was was a little
overkill, since mapping is about music and not about score. But you can argue equally valid for both sides.

Again, I'm sorry that I phrased it poorly. I will as well remove myself from this conversation, since it is
too late anyways.
Lethargy
J E N N Y
Kyouren
Why you don't tell me if you quit? I'll be miss you because you're make me happy in mapping! I hope you back!
Bye!~

SPOILER
I so shit!
I so shit!!
I so shit!!!
I so shit!!!

It's my fault because not good in friendly
12Jan21

gokugohan12468 wrote:

Why you don't tell me if you quit? I'll be miss you because you're make me happy in mapping! I hope you back!
Bye!~

gokugohan12468 wrote:

It's my fault because not good in friendly
No... It was just because of czechoslovak community...
Gordon123
welcome back \o/
Kyouren
Welcome back :3

<3
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