Can someone explain what happened here? Did this guy really speedrank an (average) map then get himself banned? What if he needs to make changes? He obviously didn't think this through, in which case I hope something happens.
Lach wrote:
Can someone explain what happened here? Did this guy really speedrank an (average) map then get himself banned? What if he needs to make changes? He obviously didn't think this through, in which case I hope something happens.
Let me get into this a little. I can agree with first point, there were more opportunities for hitsounding and variable volume, but hitsounds are still possible to hear, tho they don't stand out that much, but that depends on whether mapper likes to make hitsounds stand out or just let it blend with music. So I agree there was opportunity for better hitsounding, but more like 3/4 of maps have simple or even poor hitsounding, so I don't see a reason why this should be explicitly unrankable.Jenny wrote:
Yeah, I see multiple concerns in terms of quality here, a few of which are:
- Why is the map completely void of audible hitsounding (except for the ending, I guess?) when the song offers plenty of opportunities for soft whistles and volume balancing?
- Clicking rhythm is inconsistent (sliders are no adequate replacement for multiple clicks, they're just clicked once)
- Stacks on what is supposed to be a pressured beat in the song.
- Why a spinner on a fade-out? Doesn't exactly seem like the most fitting thing to spin at your maximum speed when the song is ending and getting progressively more quiet.
Other maps being bad is no justification to not encourage further polishing and raising overall quality.Wafu wrote:
Let me get into this a little. I can agree with first point, there were more opportunities for hitsounding and variable volume, but hitsounds are still possible to hear, tho they don't stand out that much, but that depends on whether mapper likes to make hitsounds stand out or just let it blend with music. So I agree there was opportunity for better hitsounding, but more like 3/4 of maps have simple or even poor hitsounding, so I don't see a reason why this should be explicitly unrankable.
Again, "common practice" is not an excuse.Wafu wrote:
Spinner on fade-out was always common practice and is better than mapping it in a regular part. You are not forced to spin at your maximum speed, that depends on your gameplay.
Neglecting key beats is not a style, and being inconsistent in your clicking rhythm in a way that doesn't feature the song isn't either - that is a technical flaw.Wafu wrote:
Stacks and picking circles or sliders is mostly very subjective and more like changing mapper's style to yours, moreover, higher count of sliders was quite required here to provide more sensible spread.
Beatmap Listing, Qualified Section wrote:
They are in "qualified" status for up to one week.
During this week, there is a high chance they will return to pending if an issue is found.
This category is recommended for people who:
Want to play cutting-edge maps.
Want to help keep map quality top-notch! (make sure to leave your feedback)
Obviously, but every map should be judged under the same circumstances, that's why referring to other beatmaps is not wrong in this case. RC doesn't determine what is quality and how high it should be - nominators mostly get known to this by seeing what actually is passing through the qualified section. If we were about qualifying only the best hitsounds, best placement, best slider/circle choice, and forbidding spinner on fade-off would just result in no maps being qualified, because there are are no 100% perfect maps.Jenny wrote:
every map should be able to stand for itself
so I do not see why one wouldn't insist for maps to be improved further when they are still in qualified state, and valid concerns are brought up.Obviously you can give a feedback, do what you want, but I didn't see any sense or any valid reason in them, so I just wanted to say why it isn't much important to shut down a map from mapper that is banned just for subjective opinion. For more discussion, it would be nice if you argued with me in-game so we don't make a spamstorm here.
Also classifying piano as "beat" or guitar as "key beat" is quite weird in musical terms.I didn't equate either of these to a specific instrument. A "key beat" to me is a beat that is most apparent, in the foreground of the song, usually loudest at the given time and intended to be drawing in the focus and attention of the listener.
I didn't say that, and there is no reason to be overdramatic here or to put words into somebody else's mouth.Wafu wrote:
So we should just keep whole map consistent when picking circles and sliders so there is no variety especially when the rhythm is repetitive and literally force people to quit playing the map?
I am not saying your opinion is wrong, but I feel like you want to bring your style to other maps and blame it on actual quality. Do what you want, try to get this unranked and grave it, do just anything you want I am not eligible to limit you in any way, I just wanted to say why did I ignore these things. I actually can agree with the circle which didn't fit the best to the rhythm and I would probably point it out if I realized it sounded bad, but that's just all I will admit at current point.Jenny wrote:
If you want examples for improper beat delivery, I can give you some:
00:46:512 (7) - sliders like this one, which end on a stronger beat than they start on; it ends on the guitar, which is the only thing going on at that time, and starts on.. just about nothing. reference material here Well, I can admit it ends on harder sound, but he didn't emphasize guitar at all in the rest of map. Also there is a sound on the start, tho it's minor, but there is.
00:47:083 (8) - this slider turns three piano notes into one click, and 1/2 hold. there is only one player input here, and it is on the first beat, while in fact, the third beat (on the white tick) is the strongest. Nothing wrong about it, the white tick is same intensity as red tick in this case white tick is not always the one which must be clicked.
00:50:511 (8,9,10) - ^this is literally the same situation, yet this time the mapper used three circles, that's just inconsistent. No reason why variety cannot be there. You are forcing just the way YOU would probably map it but mapper not.
00:52:226 (2) - reoccurance of 00:46:512
00:53:945 (6) - reoccurance 00:47:083
01:07:388 (6) - same principle; the slider's end covers what is a foreground beat on the white tick, where usually the mapper started a new slider, or just had a click in general - that is not the case here, and there is no apparent explanation as to why, except for "trying to change it up", when the song is not calling for it. The last sound on slider seems to not be as loud as the first one. I even feel it is less intense, but just does have higher frequency, that's all.
01:11:963 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - this entire part is patterned in pairs of two in the song, restarting on every white tick, yet the mapper chose to start 3 on a red tick, therefore breaking with the song's pair patterning for what I presume to be "variation's sake", and again, the song does not call for it - similarly, 5's end covers the start of another pair, taking away another foreground beat from the gameplay Well, I can agree the circle here didn't fit perfectly.
He can always hack osu!'s mainframe and bring his account back to lifeWafu wrote:
I can agree that some rhytmical stuff could be improved. Consistency is imo not real requirement of quality and I think using 1/4 sliders with repeat was fine for variety as the song is very repetitive. Hitsounds could have been a little more emphasizing, tho I felt the piano/guitar part didn't need that much, well, requirements on hitsounding probably changed, but whatever.
Snaggle: Now I feel like you consider it to be only emotional and thus my opinion meant nothing.
Anyway, I dunno whether more modding is needed, would be waste of time if we consider Mortem is banned.
Something went wrong? It is still visible in Qualified section.
No I read your statements and Jennys statements and I thought Jenny was right on a lot of things.Wafu wrote:
Snaggle: Now I feel like you consider it to be only emotional and thus my opinion meant nothing.
Well, I did phrase it rather harshly, didn't I? I didn't intend it to be hurtful or to cause any negativity. I doWafu wrote:
Yup, I agree the DQ is not unfair in any way (apart from the inability to revive the map), but the "Jenny is right about every single point he made about the map." was quite like: "Nobody cares about your opinion." My opinion was that what matters is how the map fits for regular players, not for tryhards who will "spin as much as they can on fade-off part", what matters about those spinners is whether they fit to the song, long sound is in the song - spinner does have loop sound -> spinner musically fits the part, that some people will break their hand while spinning for rank is a different problem. In such case, we should consider everything what would not feel well for tryhards, which is wrong, because that would force people to actually map so the map is perfect on all game modes like taiko, o!m, CtB, but also that it would have to play well on HD/DT/FL/HR and others, because that is considering what people MAY do if they want to climb, but not what people actually need to do to enjoy game, which is the important point. I've given this opinion previously, tho it was more like tl;dr of this, but nobody had enough strong argument to tell me I was wrong, yet the "jenny was right about every single point" felt like it was not even considered, only thing Jenny's argument was about is: "Players may spin very quickly so why is there spinner on fade-off?", but Jenny put her guide, which said exactly the same, but just because it is a "guide", it is so professional and no counter-arguments would not matter at all. I just felt like being ignored because you said she was right about everything. That's maybe my personal feeling, but from the way you've given your feedback, it seemed like you ignored it, don't worry about it.
Anyway I think this is my final word, there's nothing to talk about as we cannot do anything with the map anymore.
Gordon123 wrote:
welcome back \o/
KittyAdventure wrote:
Welcome back :3
<3