Ranking Criteria wrote:

1. A difficulty's name must indicate its level of difficulty, with the exception of the hardest level of difficulty in a set. The mapset's hardest difficulty may use an appropriate custom difficulty name, unrelated to a username. Mapsets may also use a complete set of custom difficulty names that clearly indicate their level of difficulty to the player. Marathon maps with a single difficulty may use free naming.

changing to
and redirecting to Taiko Ranking Criteria as following rule:
This means,

The reason for this purposal is due to a concerning evolvement in Taiko when it's about difficulty namings. Difficulty names are put together with questionable suffixes / words, sometimes do not even represent any difficulty or are written in redundant ways. The concern is probably even justfied when considering the fact how things evolved in osu!: Names of difficulties are not anymore names, but long sentences(#1, #2) or sometimes even become emoticons like this.

I firmly believe that difficulty names must represent a difficulty of a map and be uniformed through all Taiko sets to make to everyone understandable what difficulty they are playing and make the game mode look authentic. Anything else seems to make no sense. Creativity has nothing to do with a word. And possible heated discussions about whether a name is appropriate or not can be avoided by this. The only point which the user can freely decide about is, how to call his hardest difficulty, as this was always a well founded and well working regulation in the Taiko community.

The good thing is now, in Taiko people show a good portion of understanding when it's about this and normaly agree with the concerns and are not angry when DQs happen. Yet, I rather would like to see this set into stone without doing any interruption in osu!'s diff name system.

What does the Taiko community think about this? Any concerns? Overall, the rule just states what we did back in the days. It should ensure having understandable difficulties but gives at the same time the possibility to have one appropriate custom name for the hardest diff..

Since I also agree that common sense doesn't work anymore in naming difficulties, a clearer border like this makes sense. Examples also state that sentences are not allowed, just like completely out-of-context diff names.

1 up

I agree. Even if at some point i was somewhat guilty of this (Flop is my sin), this is starting to get completely out of control...

Looks like we cannot rely on common sense anymore.

+1 to the new rule

I'm in agreement with this, too, it seems as if being grounded is just not enough for people at this point and suddenly want to be ultra-unique, but like Ono mentioned above, some diff names make me annoyed, to say the least.

One question, what happens if someone new ends up becoming an active mapper and wants to establish their own (appropriate) diff name? The three examples mentioned are established Inner Oni diff names so I'm just wondering how that would work.

Although Taiko has strict difficulty namings compared to other modes, it's still better to have a regulation to avoid big misnamings that will end up being completely pointless and stupid at times (I have given another example that was not provided in the OP).

I know osu! has lots of Anime songs. But please let's stop overnaming difficulties the same way animes are overtitled. This is getting out of hand.

Dainesl wrote:

One question, what happens if someone new ends up becoming an active mapper and wants to establish their own (appropriate) diff name? The three examples mentioned are established Inner Oni diff names so I'm just wondering how that would work.

That would be fine. As long as it is an appropriate diff name these people can use it. As far as I see and as I posted in the OP, this regulation was (and still is?) well accepted in Taiko. Correct me if I'm wrong. That's why I wrote this new rule purposal to see if it is still up-to-date.


Also, Krah told me that it might be better to purpose this for all gamemodes, which I didn't done so far since Staff declined diverse RC changes in this matter for several times. But maybe people from other modes have something to say about this, too?

This applies only the the hardest diff in the set right?
I agree with names having to be more normal there, except in the case of approval maps probably (creativity <3)

Also, are names as Inner Kantan (between K-F), Inner Futsuu/Futsukashii (between F-M), Inner Muzukashii/Muzoni (Between M-O) fine? (as you only say KFMO)

Yeah, I use those sometimes, but never got some true confirmation though ;w;

Names like Futsuukashii or Muzoni are not difficulties. They have no meaning in the japanese language. It's the same with Muzu - it's like calling the diff in english "Ha" or "H". Second example from you is the authentic way, like in this example and would be fine. And about approval maps, they fall under the category of the hardest map and would need an appropriate diff name.

As Ono already stated (and I completely agree) creativity has nothing to do with a difficulty name. It should indeed represent a difficulty, nothing more and nothing less.

Inner/Ura Kantan and such are okay as far as I know. Futsuukashii and such, I don't know lol they don't really sound like they represent any difficulty.

I do not agree/disagree with this, just wondering about things.

OnosakiHito wrote:

I firmly believe that difficulty names must represent a difficulty of a map and be uniformed through all Taiko sets to make to everyone understandable what difficulty they are playing and make the game mode look authentic.

I don't get this, why would you want to make this mode look more "authentic" when there are almost no authentic maps here. Almost none maps this way/try to rank authentic stuff. I remember trying to rank my first map with SV changes in lower difficulties, i said "there are SV changes in lower difficulties in TnT maps" and you only said no or "this isn't TnT".

And then about your example on "questionable suffixes" : KantanFlop/FutsuuFlop... what exactly is questionable here ? You can clearly see the difficulty names "Kantan" etc, there is no confusion since he adds Flop in every difficulty name at the same spot (and of course Flop is related to the song).

I do agree about sentences difficulty names being weird but i honestly don't care, i only look at sr/bpm/od etc when playing a map. I see no point in adding this whole rule, only you forcing your preferences over this game mod. I believe you don't really expect getting the real "community opinion" here with 10 peoples answering ?...

And then about that creativity thing... You guys are all using creativity to map something yet you want to stick to authentic names not even really being related to the style you use. Real lack of logic here (((((IMO))))). I personnaly won't try to create weird difficulty names because i have no creativity but still...

I for one disagree with the entire concept of the changed rule in general (not only taiko related). Let me explain.

First of all, by what logic should a highest difficulty be allowed to be named something random and not the lowest diff? Or the mid diff? What would be the reason that would explain the logic?
You can't.

Second, what does imply that the highest difficulty is an insane? What if it's a Hard or a second Normal? Those are really rare cases, but they do exist, and since you are building a rule, you must include every possible scenario.

Third, by allowing this, in a case where there is a Hard, what does prevent the mapper to name it Insane? Would that make the difficulty spread bad? No, it just doesn't make sense since you didn't specify they are not allowed to re-use the same names for other difficulties.
In a case where you somehow are able to explain the logic of the custom naming for other diffs other than highest, what does prevent you from naming your Easy difficulty Insane?

Fourth, if you are forcing it to be unrelated to the username, you are creating confusion as people will no longer know who mapped what unless they check the map's page/thread, which I am sure the majority of the community doesn't do, or even know about it.

Fifth, you are including taiko related rules into a standard (basic) rule, while not including ctb or mania. I am not saying that you should include those as well, I am saying that you shouldn't even mention another game mode if you are making a core rule, which this is supposed to be.

Also, finally, just because others abandoned common sense, doesn't mean we (as the taiko community) should too.

This is all from a logical standpoint, now on to the little things.

Because there is a problem in taiko mode, you are creating several illogical things for others to "fix" one thing in taiko. You shouldn't do that, instead you should just focus on the taiko mode, without touching the core rule.

I firmly believe that difficulty names must represent a difficulty of a map and be uniformed through all Taiko sets to make to everyone understandable what difficulty they are playing and make the game mode look authentic.

Except for the authentic part, I fully agree. This is common sense.
There is one little problem here, but since we all adopted it as a normal thing, it's not really a problem, and that is that we are using Japanese names for the difficulty names. Outside of Japan, and excluding people who know a little Japanese from whatever source, a regular person might not recognize what the names represent. This is easily explained as the direct translations make perfect sense.
_

It has already been somewhat commonly accepted to follow the KFMO naming trend, and then having Inner/Ura as the 2nd harder Oni, and using special names for single difficulty mapsets (Marathons) which aren't complicated. This whole rule change will actually break this concept, and since it's what we actually desire, shouldn't be changed at all.
Also, in rare cases, the Inner Oni has lower star rating than the original Oni, and without a doubt being more difficult. Sadly, there is no real fix to this other than keeping our naming standards we did so far.

As for the naming standards in other modes, it is obvious that naming standards have faded over time. Nothing in this rule that will prevent that deteriorating even further.
_

tldr version: Let's not open a can of worms, and leave things as they are and manage it during the ranking process when necessary.

@Nofool

Oh. I wasn't refering to TNT or Namco. I ment with "authentic" the meaning itself. Like, it looks more reliable / credible. Though I must agree that these diff names itself came from the original game, but that's how we grew up with it the last 7 years and what we use for all the diffs since then.

About" Kantanflop", the problem is that we can't justiefy ourself when we give this a go but not to, for example, "Kantanfloptopmopropswop etc...". It would be unfair towards the other mapper nevermind how we try to defen ourself. Of course common sense is a thing which we would refer to, but it didn't work. That's probably why the "sentence-diffs" happened in osu!. And the worst is, if someone makes a "text-diff", how are osu people gonna defend themself? They can't do it, since sentences are already allowed. All that is left is to enforce stuff at the end under unfair aspects. Maybe I didn't consider something, but if you ask me, it is better to set it in stone instead of having possible heated discussions in some maps.


And about the "my preference", while I must say that it is indeed my own preference of handling diffs in this way, it's not the reason why I opened the discussion, but rather for the reasons I stated in the OP. Especially that difficulties should have difficulty names and nothing else. Creativity has nothing to do with a difficulty name. It's a word. Not a creation like a map. And yeah, I can't expect that the biggest part of the community will appear here, that's of course obvious and will never happen. But I want to gather opinions here and see how those 10 people react to it.

Thank you for the comment!
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Adding my comment to lolcubes, since he posted his opinion before my answer:

There are indeed some points you mentioned which probably should be considered for such a rule change. With highest difficulties were really hard ones ment, as mapper did in the past and grew up with. But maybe it would need a refinement in the rule. Though, about the "highest diff being another diff than Insane", BN/QAT can always ask the mapper to change it. As you said, it happens really rarely, which is why I would prefer this over the rather possible case of normal sets having other diff names. But even so, I think this never happened before? Or really, really rarely. Same goes for your third point: I think this never happened that someone reused a difficulty beside maybe GDs. And fourth point wasn't disallowed by the rule purposal, since it's about the difficulty name itself, not the guest differ.

lolcubes wrote:

Fifth, you are including taiko related rules into a standard (basic) rule, while not including ctb or mania. I am not saying that you should include those as well, I am saying that you shouldn't even mention another game mode if you are making a core rule, which this is supposed to be.

Must agree with this. It's just, while I find this important for all gamemodes, I have no intention to interfer there either, as I don't know exactly what these communties grew up with and how their exact regulations are. Neither am I tempted to make changes in osu! where the same request has been declined by staff for osu!, which is why I stick to Taiko as I know more about this mode.

But overall, as you said, it has been commonly accepted to follow the KFMO with Ura and Inner and custom names for marathon. So are the Taiko-username diffs accepted. These are one of the reasons why I purposed a rule in this way. It leans exactly towards this behaviour, and if there are things in the wording which should be refined due to examples you gave, we can do that. I'm only unsure about points second to fourth since it seems to make things more complicated as it actually could be. Especially since these cases never happened or have a much lower appeareance than common sets.

Current rule purpose would be a redirection to Taiko rules with the clear say "diffs should be called as diffs" with exception of marathon and hard diffs. First part would be the "common sense part" while second part is the "agreement of community".

lolcubes wrote:

First of all, by what logic should a highest difficulty be allowed to be named something random and not the lowest diff? Or the mid diff? What would be the reason that would explain the logic?
You can't.

Why do you stick to the Japanese way of naming Taiko diffs?
Because it's been that way for a long time. Other than that? Well both games that both gamemodes (standard / taiko) originally originated from are Japanese so why doesn't Standard use these names? Because they didn't get the idea to do that back then.
Why does this Rule exist?
Because back when diffnames were even more lenient than now people started calling diffs simply by their usernames (val0108, Rin, Skystar, some other not even related things) and it got out of hand. After discussing what'd be the most meaningful change this was what's been suggested and implemented.

and it has since been handled this way for a long time.

also on the >random<:
appropriate custom difficulty name
appropriate custom difficulty name
appropriate custom difficulty name
appropriate custom difficulty name
while this is subjective, it by no means states that you can just go and name your Insanes Easy and your Easy Insanes
... because that's not appropriate

///

on topic of the suggested rulechange:
Are you sure that it's necessary to make this a hard rule? coming from the discussion we had some time back there seemed to be some kind of gray area where people don't necessarily care.

Simplicity is beauty. It's our convention to use Kantan/Futsuu/Muzukashii/Oni with Inner/Ura descriptors for Taiko difficulty names. I'm not against custom names for the highest difficulty, but making everything neat to show the level of difficulty properly is of the vast importance.

I'm agree with Nardo, and in the worst case we should avoid custom names. (imo, don't kill me~~)

I'm gonna name my Inner Oni [Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious]

OzzyOzrock wrote:

I'm gonna name my Inner Oni [Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious]

so pro, if stars diff is 68,900000000

EDIT:

Ozzy nots crazzy. just Ozzy Ozburn or ozben

ajajaja xD, Ozzy you are crazy, bro~~ :3

OzzyOzrock wrote:

I'm gonna name my Inner Oni [Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious]

then GD my supercalifragilisticexpialidocious hahahaha

btw +1 with this

My opinion is, either make it consistent with all game modes or not at all. Why would we have more strict diff naming rules for Taiko only? Makes no sense.

Because Taiko handles it since years mostly in the same way, without having questionable diff names, while osu! doesn't. And before the same happens in Taiko, I rather want to ensure it's not gonna happen at all.

It still doesn't make sense. If you really think that those diffnames are not acceptable, then you should discuss this with members from other gamemodes too and if they agree this should be made a rule for all modes. Just focusing on one mode makes no sense at all because diffname rules don't relate to a specific mode.

I understand that. But as this has been discussed several times in osu! already, and pretty often failed anyway until peppy had to make a purpose with the team, I have no intention to interfer in osu!. But in Taiko that's not the case. We have a clear way for how we call our difficulties. Moreover, we have our own diff namings we are used to since 7 years and which work flawless. Hence, the specific purpose. But if you think the rule should be consistent, feel free to make a purpose for all modes. But it won't change the fact, that certain difficulty names in osu! are not representing a difficulty at all. And making words is not art either.

OnosakiHito wrote:

I understand that. But as this has been discussed several times in osu! already, and pretty often failed anyway until peppy had to make a purpose with the team, I have no intention to interfer in osu!.

The reason for that is that the community wants freedom in naming their difficulties how they feel like. We already have pretty restricting rules (except for the highest diff) to make them understandable for newbies - otherwise everyone should be free in what they want to do.

OnosakiHito wrote:

But in Taiko that's not the case. We have a clear way for how we call our difficulties. Moreover, we have our own diff namings we are used to since 7 years and which work flawless. Hence, the specific purpose.

If the Taiko community wants to use consistent diff names, then that's good. There is no need to create a rule in the Ranking Criteria for that though.
I still see no need in trying to enforce something for specific mode that has been discussed (and not implemented to that extent) in the past for all modes together.

OnosakiHito wrote:

But if you think the rule should be consistent, feel free to make a purpose for all modes. But it won't change the fact, that certain difficulty names in osu! are not representing a difficulty at all.

Nah I am quite against it. As I said above, the mapper should be free to name their difficulties how they want as long as the lower diffs are representing their difficulty (for the newbies).

OnosakiHito wrote:

And making words is not art either.

Ofc making words is some kind of art, just like literature is art too. Oh well, I feel like this discussion won't end anywhere

I am no Taiko player but from an outsider point of view I am with Desperate-kun on the subject. I know I would be against a change towards o!m's diffnaming rules forcing us to use only a generic, specific set of diffnames. It is not much, but for a lot of us it is a way to give some sort of identity to our maps, a little 'extra' to the actual content of our maps and now that I think about it, and while it does not always work out, finding custom diffnames to represent my maps is actually pretty fun.

CtB and Taiko seem to each have their own way of naming stuff. I don't have my word on that but I had always wondered why they didn't use more fancy-looking diffnames like std and mania do.

Granted, having a generic set of diffnames will make it easier for newbies to recognize what diff is easier/harder, but SR, despite being broken, kind of serves this purpose as well, even better I would say. It does not take forever either to get used to custom diffnames, as long as they follow a logical naming order. Marathon should be free to be named whatever the mapper feels like it so long as it is stil related to the song as well.

ye just my 2 cents

Exactly. The discussion won't end anywere, as Desperate said. Everything has been explained before in previous posts or OP. lolcubes gave so far the only reasonable concerns.

I am against restricting freedom in naming by principle, as it would be infringing the mappers right to express himself.
Of course i see some infringements are neccesary to ensure quality, but there is a point when it becomes over the top.
I agree with the fact, that the terms Kantan, Futsuu, Muzukashii and Oni should be used, but on principle i wouldn't see a problem with something else being added to the name (Flop etc.) as long as it relates to the song. But in my opinion, difficulty naming should be free choice after the Oni difficulty, meaning people could give it a name relating to the song. If this were too open end for you, i would also agree on making them include the word "Oni" in their difficulty name until the highest difficulty. (IE. Kantan, Futsuu, Muzukashii, Oni, Ura Oni, Hell Oni, Destruction Oni, Devastation would be ok, but Kantan, Futsuu, Muzukashii, Oni, Ura, Hell, Destruction, Devastation would not be ok). I would also like to elaborate on your point about "Muzu" or "Futsuukashii" making no sense, which i totally agree with. I would even like to go further with this point and state that "Inner Oni" also technically makes no sense, because "Inner" has nothing to do with Japanese, nor Taiko no Tatsujin. That is like mixing 2 languages for no apparent reason when you could use "Ura Oni" instead, this just makes it less authentic imo. Just ask yourself this: would you call your diff "Dämon Interieur"? I think not, even though that is bassically the same. "Inner Oni" is basically just a (not even very good) english adaptation of "Ura Oni" in the end and you might as well call it "Hidden Oni" or "Insane Oni" instsead and it would make just as much sense.
I see that some rules are neccesary but infringing it to only the hardest difficulty name in general would also make a lot of problems. For instance, what if the map has more than 4 Oni diffs (Oni, Inner Oni, Ura Oni, "oh wait... no diffname left and i can't even invent a name because the ranking criteria says i cant" and "Custom diffname"). Since Inner Oni basically is already a type of custom diffname, which is commonly accepted i would like to suggesst that people are free to name all their difficulties that are harder than their Oni whatever they want, as long as they include the word "Oni" in them, to indicate that it is indeed Taiko and add authenticity, also i think this rule shouldn't go for the hardest difficulty, so that names like "Taikocalypse" or "Taikosaki" would still be possible, same goes for approved beatmaps.
Other than that i would be ok with most of the stuff you suggested, this is just an additional suggestion
(ps: if this is implemented please don't be too narrowminded on what is "appropriate")

Mappers already express themselves with their song choices and mapping style. Despite mapping content comes from the community, we should aim for certain standards, so everything looks more professional by being consistent.

Personally I'm fine with people naming "Hell Oni", "Destruction Oni", or any other combination/word that tells the map is really hard, thus extending custom names to only the hardest difficulty/really challenging maps.

I still have no clue about exactly how much freedom you guys are willing to give the hardest diff. Obviously it can't be named [Easy], but is something that may be a reference to something powerful or impactful in the game where the song is from be ok?

DakeDekaane wrote:

Mappers already express themselves with their song choices and mapping style. Despite mapping content comes from the community, we should aim for certain standards, so everything looks more professional by being consistent

What you're saying is that taiko should aim to look more professional than the other 3 modes by forcing consistent difficulty naming upon ppl and i dont get why taiko diffnames are more special than ctb diffnames for example?

Believe it or not naming a difficulty is expressing creativity so if i understood both posts correctly you just answered Chromoxx with a more detailed "nope dude"

Naming a difficulty can be some sort of creativity, but I'd also like to see some sort of "restriction" for that.

Diffnames were supposed to give a general idea about how difficult that song is. Some "uncommon" or "strange" diff names were accepted since they were related to the song (ex. Desperation on a "sad" song, Death on a song about ... well, death in all forms, etc...). and Im totally fine with them. What gets me is that we nowadays have diffnames that relate to the song, but not to the actual difficulty (ex. We cry "open", "This song is about a tragic love", etc...).
Next thing we'll see is "This is a map which is to be played in the official osu! client" on seal.mp4 :v

I'd be all for more restricted diffnaming, but let's not overdo that and only allow 6 or so names.

To be honest all the 4 modes are the same, I don't know why you think ¨Taiko¨ is a special case. In my opinion you better open the discussion for every mode, since the free name in the last diff rule apply for every game mode.

Natsu wrote:

To be honest all the 4 modes are the same, I don't know why you think ¨Taiko¨ is a special case. In my opinion you better open the discussion for every mode, since the free name in the last diff rule apply for every game mode.

Taiko is a special case since we don't have yet all these cancerous difficulty names that you have in standard that do not show at all how hard the difficulty should be (i have not seen that kind of issue in CTB sets either but i don't know much about CTB). Just gonna randomly take a map from you as example : https://osu.ppy.sh/s/94631 (and i have seen much worse stuff). Apparently you are BN, do you even realize that any new comer won't get at all what to play according to their skill/what the spread is ? How can you even ask for discussion when this is so over already ? and your QATs probably are not better since they let pass such stuff. There is no possible discussion for your game mode, this is way too late, and because of peoples like you.

However, there is no point at all in this rule since as Lolcubes said, BNs and QATs should be able to handle this (and yet they have been doing well in Taiko). It probably even is too restricted at this moment...

do you realize that map was ranked in 2013 when no one care about that lol...

Anyways on topic, what we say is that this rule is a general one no a per mode one, so this need an open discussion, because taiko isn't a special case or something, is the same as the other modes. If the rule were related to gameplay the yes, but difficulty naming is a general thing.

Edit: nvm just to see all those bad words and blind mind, seems you are not a person who can discuss stuff.

You don't get the issue it seems, do you believe that we can add a new rule about diff names and forget all the shit you have in standard ? Ready to get kids crying because they can't name their difficulties as they want while there is thousands of maps with weird names ? It doesn't matter when it was done, it is done and you can't fix it. You guys have nothing to say here, nothing will change at least for your mode.

If difficulty naming really was a general thing then why are standard difficulty names so much fucked up compared to other modes ?
Just found that on the first post : https://osu.ppy.sh/s/324303 (exemple for an "Hard" difficulty name)
like... nha seriously you are not on topic at all man wake up if such rule ever gets accepted this surely won't be possible for all game modes.
If you answer back saying the same thing then you clearly don't get the issue yeah... looks like that's how it is tho.

I don't see the purpose of this becoming a rule.

Let the osu standard guys name whatever crazy non-fitting diff names they want, we have our own way of handling things.

And no, it's not because you force it on us (baka ono), it's because we have something called COMMON SENSE. edit: or we actually don't care about diff names

/thread

Natsu wrote:

Anyways on topic, what we say is that this rule is a general one [...] the same as the other modes. If the rule were related to gameplay the yes, but difficulty naming is a general thing.

Get out I don't want this crap in o!m no matter what.

So, what's the reason for bashing us "standards" again?
We're at a point where diff names get really messy, yes, so why arent we allowed to make this a general thing and improve towards something possibly better?

Also, what the heck is wrong with your attitude, Raiden

Ono, why are you asking for a rule change if you're already enforcing it as one anyway?

Let's begin.
Map examples are all examples given in this thread's initial post.

http://puu.sh/k3ei4/5e0b7cb375.png
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/342966
p/4464789

Ranking Criteria wrote:

A difficulty's name must indicate its level of difficulty, with the exception of the hardest level of difficulty in a set.

Hardest difficulty was called "Ozzy's Inner flop" at this time, apparently. The issue brought up was the lack of "Oni" in the title.
Level of difficulty rule does not apply to it since it is the hardest difficulty... but it was said it didn't fit the ranking criteria.
As for muzuflop, it is as clear to players as muzukashiiflop, as a player who knows what Muzukashii means would know what muzu is short for, especially in context such as this.


http://puu.sh/k3eqV/2f07dc5b71.png
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/327029
p/4487887

Ranking Criteria wrote:

Marathon maps with a single difficulty may use free naming.

This was a single difficulty marathon at the time, so it could use free naming.
Here it was considered rankable and was just a suggestion to be changed.
That's good, but to say "in Taiko we want to prevent that." implies someone other than yourself.
I am fairly certain "we" refers to the taiko QAT and isn't a translation error... and I highly doubt all the taiko QAT would agree with that judgement. Also, if all the taiko QAT do agree, then there is a clear divide between the mentalities of taiko BN and taiko QAT, as the set would have never been bubbled.


http://puu.sh/k3dYG/e680ce82df.png
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/309772
p/4485730
A marathon with a custom last difficulty, but with a first difficulty that does not represent the level of difficulty.
A legitimate unrankable issue.
Proposed fix removed the stylistic names, as evident by the new difficulty names.
Difficulty pair that would be acceptable could potentially be "cdh's Oni ~Knights of the Don~" and "-the kat of ex's truth-"
Much like if it were "cdh's Oni flop"


http://puu.sh/k3dn3/a38cb67649.png
http://puu.sh/k3dyb/faf395d47e.png
This is literally giving examples why previously listed names were okay in the ranking criteria.


So the examples given by you show how you have been misreading or avoiding the actual ranking criteria.


With that out of the way, let's cover the main concern. The reasoning for the proposition.

OnosakiHito wrote:

I firmly believe that difficulty names must represent a difficulty of a map and be uniformed through all Taiko sets to make to everyone understandable what difficulty they are playing and make the game mode look authentic.

This is the real meat of the post.
It seems to say, "Please use Kantan Muzukashii Oni Inner Oni, Ura Oni ONLY, so we can be more authentic."
But it also seems to say "Make an exception to authenticity so we can have names like Tatsujin, Taikocalypse, Taikosaki...
...
Taikosaki is a signed difficulty with no level of difficulty implied. In the current Ranking Criteria it would only be allowed in a marathon. In the proposed change those kind of signed difficulties would be allowed on every set.

So this wouldn't be truly promoting authenticity anyway. It would take a step forward and a step back.

Besides, osu! isn't Taiko no Tatsujin. It is not "authentic". There's even an official taiko skin that comes with the game, with custom sounds and everything to distance it further.

The best way to handle this sort of thing is to let the lovers of authentic stay authentic, and the non-authentic stay non-authentic.
That's what standard did with the INIS mapping group.
Standard developed with two dominant mentalities: INIS being authentic / loyal to the handheld games, and those who were not.
INIS didn't have rules shutting down others, and nobody shut down INIS with rules.
One became larger than the other, but they both still exist.

So stop this subjective rule changing, this is just going to make more problems... if that isn't already evident by the other responses in the thread.

Yauxo wrote:

So, what's the reason for bashing us "standards" again?
We're at a point where diff names get really messy, yes, so why arent we allowed to make this a general thing and improve towards something possibly better?

Also, what the heck is wrong with your attitude, Raiden

Don't know why you put it on spoiler.

Don't also know what you got against my attitude. If you can please elaborate?

edit: @Charles: I believe he refers to more "autenthicity" as in "more professional", not refering to the original game. No one maps like TnT nowadays, in fact they are quite rejected in our community.

edit2: or better don't. You probably misread everything I said lol.

Just a CtB mapper/modder dropping by to give my two cents.

I've noticed recently that the current mapping scene in CtB is starting to drift away slightly from the traditional difficulty naming spread of Cup-Salad-Platter-Rain-Overdose, with people using naming spreads from other rhythm games where appropriate (i.e. the song is sourced from said game), or related to the song in some way e.g.

1. SDVX difficulty naming
2. IIDX difficulty naming
3. jubeat difficulty naming Bad example, needs fixing xD
4. "Quasi-custom" difficulty naming based on the song/genre
5. Complete custom naming based on the song

To me, all of these are perfectly understandable (the last was debated quite a bit but general consensus was that it was ok) and give a clear indication of difficulty at least to the level of the "traditional" CtB spread naming *(which is kinda weird in itself, but that's a different story). If something like this was proposed for CtB I'd be fine with making it a Gudeline that could be reviewed on a case-by-case basis, but I see no sense in enforcing it as a rule, as it restricts creativity for little real benefit (in my opinion) as some others have suggested previously.

I do agree that there needs to be some handle on the "custom naming for the hardest difficulty though, to avoid cases like these:

1. Not relating to song or giving any real indication of difficulty
2. No indication of difficulty
3. No indication of difficulty and related to a username

tl;dr I see no reason to make this a rule. I'd have it as a guideline across all modes at best.

JBHyperion wrote:

jubeat difficulty naming

Difficulty naming here doesn't refer to jubeat, but to O2Jam

Sayaka- wrote:

JBHyperion wrote:

jubeat difficulty naming

Difficulty naming here doesn't refer to jubeat, but to O2Jam

That needs fixing then lol - but the point that it still makes logical sense and is easily understandable (when used correctly) should still stand.

Please do not understand me wrong, don't want to harm anyone now, but looking at what the thread has become, that's the reason why I rather stay in a more local way in this community since many people outside of Taiko become very quick angry, insultive or post upon wrong assumptions which may lead to a more heated discussion. Of course, some of us might have not been nice either right now, but that's because people from outside try to interfer without knowing the situation in its full extend. And that's not what I (and the Taiko guys) try to achieve here. Neither are we used to this behaviour.

Charles445 wrote:

Ono, why are you asking for a rule change if you're already enforcing it as one anyway?

That is absolutely wrong. No one is enforcing anything in Taiko. My disqualifications or mods are always written in a non-forceful way, especially when I talk in #taiko or PM with these people as I always make clear, that they are allowed to do it, but that most people of the active part in the Taiko community do not really like it for the reasons and concerns I gave in the OP (whether you believe it or not is not important since our guys know it. But even so, the fact that we have mostly unified sets should prove it ,- no, the reason is not because they are afraid about a DQ, old maps proove that, too.). Hence, the examples you gave are inconsequential because at the end, the mapper decided to change it by their own (Raidens case was the only case which has been shifted into #taiko and where some of us discussed about it).

Charles445 wrote:

OnosakiHito wrote:

I firmly believe that difficulty names must represent a difficulty of a map and be uniformed through all Taiko sets to make to everyone understandable what difficulty they are playing and make the game mode look authentic.

This is the real meat of the post.

The reason for allowing custom names in the hardest difficulties is because of cultural and traditional aspects in our community. What I purpose is something we do since the beginning of the gamemode: Having (in most cases) unified diff-names + one custom name for the hardest diff., which everyone understood and which worked flawless. And what Raiden said: With "authentic" I ment "in a more professional" way.



I think many of you should understand by now, why I actually don't want to interfer in the other communities(especially osu). They have their own way of handling difficulty names and I have not the slightest intention (nor right) to interfer there.

If anyone outside of our community still thinks that I am forcing people, then see it as the preserve of order upon local discussions and the consideration of culture, tradition and preserve of peace (by eliminating possible subjective discussions about names). lolcube's post is covering some things which should be thought about. The rest is up to the Taiko community and higher staff members whether they want it or not, but as always, with well founded reasons.

With that said:

OzzyOzrock wrote:

I still have no clue about exactly how much freedom you guys are willing to give the hardest diff. Obviously it can't be named [Easy], but is something that may be a reference to something powerful or impactful in the game where the song is from be ok?

The incorrect approach was trying to force official ranking criteria to do something only us Taiko community do, because standard people seem so damn butthurt and whiny about "getting their freedom cut". This thread was directed toward Taiko people only, I still don't get why the other guys who have literally zero idea about how we work are getting involved. See the thread's title? It has a big (TAIKO) on it.

I think it would have been better to keep it by ourselves since we don't care about other gamemodes and discuss it rather in the Taiko section.

And, as mentioned already, we Taiko BNs/QATs know pretty much how to handle this.

This said, it would be much better to close this thread and move it into Taiko section because this is leading us nowhere.

Not sure. As you somewhat said, normaly we do it by our own and discuss it with the active community part(+BNs and QATs). But since the official osu rules are involved into this, it is kinda hard to shift it mainly in our section without a rule change. We may agree or disagree with something, but people could always refer to the current rules to defend themself, and that's something which can lead to problematic situations. It actually didn't even happen so far, since most of us understand the reason behind this. But a rule could prevent these rare cases.

eh whatever, it's not like it matters anyway

Futsuukashi is not acceptable, neither is the second one lmfao.

We don't have such names. This is leading NOWHERE as I already said, don't know why this isn't closed already.

You look like you completely missed the point of the thread lol. The thread wasn't about giving "freedom" to use retarded diff names, it was in fact the contrary of that: to avoid the use of those.

With the change of how the Ranking Criteria Subforum works from now on, topics like these are obsolete.